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Title: Do You Heap Burning Coals on Your Enemy’s Head?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.hiskingdomprophecy.com/heaping-coals/
Published: Jul 13, 2015
Author: HKP
Post Date: 2015-07-13 00:29:35 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 7850
Comments: 40

Taken out of context from the Bible, the question seems rather odd. On face value, heaping burning coals on the head of anyone, friend or foe, see just downright un-Christian. But that is what we read in the Book of Romans 12:20b “… you will heap burning coals on his head.” Indeed, we are encouraged to do this very thing, something that no matter how we look at it, conjures up negative images.

The question is, what does this phrase mean? Where does it come from?

Before we begin to look at the phrase in detail, let us first look to God so that we set our understanding on the firm foundation of Who and What God is, for the phrase is found in the Holy Bible, which is the very Word of God, a Word, which God hold higher than His own name (Psalm 138:2).

God is Righteous and Just: He is the judge of all things and in Him there is no darkness nor wrong, nor can there ever be. This “burning coals” phrase must bring righteousness and justice.

God is Love: God demonstrated this for all time as He agreed to sacrifice His one and only begotten Son on a cross at Calvary for us, that we may be forgiven and attain everlasting life. This “burning coals” phrase must exemplify love.

God is Holy: God is Holy beyond all our imaginations: He is perfectly perfect; He is completely complete; He is pure in all ways at all times. This “burning coals” phrase action must glorify God.

God is Truth and Light: We read in Revelation 21:23 of Heaven, that “the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb.” Why are truth and light linked? In John 3:21 we have an explanation as Jesus says: “But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.” In God truth and light are one and the same. This “burning coals” phrase must bring all to the truth and from darkness to light.

Let us now go and look at Romans 12:19-21 to view the extract in relation to its related and enclosing scriptures:

“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

First, we come across a direct imperative for Christian: “Never avenge yourselves.” Executing vengeance; taking satisfaction for an injury by the punishment of the offender; vindicating ourselves, are all expressly against the word of God. Why? Because the Word of the Lord, first in Deuteronomy 31:41b says “I will give vengeance to My enemies and will reward those that hate Me.” Nahum 1:2 then reiterates the words saying “Jehovah takes vengeance against His foes, and He keeps wrath against His enemies.” When a phrase appears in the Bible, it is important. When it is repeated, it is very important and when like now it is repeated yet a second time, we has better not forget it! God is God and certain things are his prerogative and right to execute. Vengeance, Revenge and Retribution all fall under that category. They are all the works of God and or God only. He alone is the judge and can rightly and impartially judge. These are not works for man. What has mankind to do? Well Jesus sets the bar quite high on this one as He says in clear and certain terms in Matthew 5:44 that born-again Christian are to “Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you.” Yes, we are to love and bless our enemies. But there is more than that!! Matthew 5:44 is a “conditional” instruction as Matthew 5:45 goes on to say: “so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust” (Emphasis added). Note the first two words: “so that.” This means that unless we love our enemies, we cannot become children of our Father in Heaven. There are no ifs, or buts or ands here. We must do this if we are Christians. If we don’t do it, we are not Christians.

Therefore, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink”. These are the words of God for all mankind. Paul then says in Romans 12:21 “Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good,” an eloquent, concise and clear summation of the previous: no matter what, Christians are to do good!

How then, by doing good, by feeding our hungry enemy and slating the thirst of our enemy, will we “heap burning coals on his head” and what does that mean and what will it do anyway?

In studying scripture, there are two sources: biblical and extra-biblical (or non-biblical). If we cannot get full clarification from within the Bible, we may then look elsewhere for explanation, providing that the extra- biblical explanation does not conflict with biblical principles. After looking at the phrase “heap burning coals on his head,” in context to the verses around it, we can view it undeniably as a positive statement, with positive connotations. Romans 12:21 now can be reasonably be viewed as an act of “goodness”, which overcomes evil.

Before looking at extra-biblical sources, we can find three biblical sources of interest. The first is an almost identical phrase in Proverbs 25:21-22 which confirms our basic understanding as to the goodly and Godly nature of the phrase, which reads:

“If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you shall heap coals of fire upon his head, and Jehovah shall reward you.”

In the Old Testament, it is generally viewed and agreed that God’s awards and rewards are always seen as a direct response to acts of kindness by mankind.

In the next source, we look at Isaiah 6:5-7 where we find Isaiah just after he had arrived in the Throne Room of God.

” Then I said, Woe is me! For I am undone; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of Hosts. Then one of the seraphs flew to me, having a live coal in his hand, snatched with tongs from the altar. And he laid it on my mouth and said, Lo, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged.”

Here we see the connection of the burning coals with purging from sin and for purification. This link between burning coals and purification is also seem, though not directly, in source three, Malachi 3:2b where the coming of the Lord is described, saying “ For He is like a refiner’s fire…” Again the purification of fire is in evidence and aligns with the Romans 12:19-21 context. Malachi 3:3 follows on that theme alaso.

The final question now that remains is: What does this 2,000+ year old phase actually mean? What is the original connotation of heaping burning coals on the head of an enemy, of anyone else, for that matter? Researching this phrase brings me to the conclusion that there is no definitive explanation which is well supported by extra-biblical sources.

Kenneth Samuel Wuest (1893–1962) was a noted New Testament Greek scholar and wrote on this point:

“In Bible times an oriental needed to keep his hearth fire going all the time in order to insure fire for cooking and warmth. If it went out, he had to go to a neighbour for some live coals of fire. These he would carry on his head in a container, oriental fashion, back to his home. The person who would give him some live coals would be meeting his desperate need and showing him an outstanding kindness. If he would heap the container with coals, the man would be sure of getting some home still burning. The one injured would be returning kindness for injury.”

Wuset’s explanation however, raises the question: Would the injuring party actually go to the home of the injured party and seek out such benevolent action?

Robert Jewett’s relatively recent Romans commentary (Romans: A Commentary (Hermeneia: A Critical & Historical Commentary on the Bible)image icon suggests that since Proverbs draws on some Egyptian literature, it is probable that it refers to an Egyptian practice of a repentant person carrying on their heads, some form of vessel with hot coals in it, symbolizing their repentance. Thus the idea of Proverbs 25:21-22 would be to feed and give drink to your enemy so that he or she will repent of their animosity toward you.

It is, after all, the enemy’s benefit which is of importance here. When the enemy is treated as a fried, when good is returned for evil, then there is the chance evil will be overcome. Your enemy, your antagonist, may be overcome not by your words, but by your good deeds. They may be transformed by a renewal of their mind, they may be changed from darkness to light, as we evangelise silently by action, not words.

Friends, before I close I feel required to quote Ephesians 6:12 which both describes and defines our real enemy, for as Paul says:

“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world’s rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

If we forget this, we forget whom our real fight is against; who our real enemy is. Our enemy is not mankind, for on them, we are to heap love and forgiveness, crowning their heads with burning coals, that they may be saved from Hell and spend eternity in Heaven.

Amen and Amen and Amen.

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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Some people just need killin'!

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   0:35:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Kluane (#1)

Some people just need killin'!

What does the Bible mean when it talks about heaping burning coals on your enemies head?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-13   0:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: A K A Stone (#2)

What does the Bible mean when it talks about heaping burning coals on your enemies head?

Set fire to the Muslim headgear.

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   1:00:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Kluane (#3)

Do you believe the Bible?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-13   1:23:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#4)

Do you believe the Bible?

Which interpretation?

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   1:46:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Kluane (#5)

Do you believe the Bible? Which interpretation?

King James. If not that one what about another one?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-13   1:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Self-Defense/

http://triston2445.missionsplace.com/2012/10/29/what-does-the-bible-say-about-killing-in-self-defense/

As with war and the execution of criminals, personal self-defense is also allowed for in Scripture. For example, Exodus 22:2 says, “If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.” This verse should be the law of our land today, and unfortunately in many places it is not. In many cities, a homeowner is not allowed to be readily able to defend himself against someone breaking in. Some areas do not allow homeowners to have loaded guns available, while in some other areas the homeowner must first “be sure” that the intruder has a weapon or is capable of being deadly. Biblical Law says that if someone is breaking into your home, he does so at the risk of his life, and the homeowner would never be considered a criminal for defending himself. Also, remember that on the very day of his arrest Christ said to his disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). Christ expected things to become very unsafe for his disciples after his death, and told them to prepare to defend themselves from unjust aggression.

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   2:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Kluane (#7)

“In Bible times an oriental needed to keep his hearth fire going all the time in order to insure fire for cooking and warmth. If it went out, he had to go to a neighbour for some live coals of fire. These he would carry on his head in a container, oriental fashion, back to his home. The person who would give him some live coals would be meeting his desperate need and showing him an outstanding kindness. If he would heap the container with coals, the man would be sure of getting some home still burning. The one injured would be returning kindness for injury.”

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-13   2:10:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)

In Bible times an oriental needed to keep his hearth fire going all the time

An oriental? Who in the Mideast or Africa even knew of orientals in Biblical times?

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   2:13:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Do You Heap Burning Coals on Your Enemy’s Head?

I'm not a Christian and not interested in being one. I believe in a modernized form of Bushido. It teaches us that the taking of human life in not only not prohibited, but a moral obligation when people cross the line of respect and honor. The reason we are in our present condition with lying politicians, subversives, etc. is because they are assurred that people will love or tolerate them instead of slaying them. Until we begin slaying them instead of quoting the bible, things will get worse. The bible is for people that want to be perpetual victims and suckers and mistakenly believe they will go to heaven for their neurosis. They are only constructing a hell on earth.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-13   2:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Kluane (#9)

It isn't dumping coal on someones head to kill them. Research it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-13   7:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: rlk (#10)

' Until we begin slaying them instead of quoting the bible, things will get worse. "

I have to agree. Hitler was not stopped with Bible verses, nor was Goliath.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-07-13   8:56:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: rlk (#10) (Edited)

I believe in a modernized form of Bushido. It teaches us that the taking of human life in not only not prohibited, but a moral obligation when people cross the line of respect and honor.

Sounds suspiciously like....ISLAM. Another cult obsessed with their version of "respect and honor."

This so-called line crossed of "respect and honor" -- on what standard is it based? WHOSE standard? From where is this supposed truth founted?

The disturbing truth of the matter is that you belong to a cult which has invented its own relativist moral code. I guess you miss the HUGE elephant in the room, eh, Magoo?

The bible is for people that want to be perpetual victims and suckers and mistakenly believe they will go to heaven for their neurosis. They are only constructing a hell on earth.

The Bible is for those who've open their hearts and ceased believing in the purely narcissistic hallucination and deception that THEY are their own "god." That you believe in some entity's "code" -- personally accountable only to some conveniently contrived universal "Bushido Code" -- is worse than believing in Santa Claus. As a Bushido disciple of fantasy-"justice" YOU are no more an eternal arbiter of "justice" than an other man who believing in their own version of "respect and honor." Ergo, you are a "victim." Of a lie.

When you are 1% "dishonorable" and "disrespectful" to the Bushido Code, what is the penalty? Where is love, mercy, repentance, and grace in "Bushido", and who or what force GIVES it?

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   11:28:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#11)

It isn't dumping coal on someones head to kill them. Research it.

If the "research" isn't at the bottom of a Sterno can, I'm afraid it just isn't possible.

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   11:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Liberator (#13)

on what standard is it based? WHOSE standard?

It's derived from serious personal observation of what people do that causes unnecessary pain or destruction to people around them and avoiding that behavior. If you don't understand that answer, then you are incapable of making such observations.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-13   15:42:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Stoner, rlk (#12)

Hitler was not stopped with Bible verses, nor was Goliath

Numerous attempts to kill Hitler failed. David's first attempt to kill Goliath worked. Successful assassinations require the right plan and the right tools. If the first attempted killer of Hitler had used a slingshot and a stone, consider how much suffering the world would have been saved and that the liberal crowd would not be howling today about toy guns but rather slingshots and stones.

Sockratease  posted on  2015-07-13   15:56:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: rlk (#15) (Edited)

("...on what standard is it [Bushido Cult] based? WHOSE standard?")

It's derived from serious personal observation of what people do that causes unnecessary pain or destruction to people around them and avoiding that behavior.

HUH?? Based on "serious personal observation"?? What if that opinion was wrong? What if *your* interpretation of "pain" was erroneous? What if the pain was temporary, enabling far lessened "pain" individually and collectively thereafter -- yet the perception at the time of a "Bushido Moment" was....100% wrong? How is that injustice addressed in "Bushido Court"?

Good thing your "personal observation" was based on your American experience and NOT based in the Somalian or Afghan experience, or else "Bushido" takes on a whole different ethic of "honor and respect." Something quite close to Islam.

Your Cult's "commandments" is nothing more than a learned subjective value that may or may NOT be based on ANY moral or ethic other than "If threatened, kill or BE killed." OR, rather the loosely themed Biblical "Golden Rule" -- "Treat other as you would like to be treated."

So the moment after death, what values, reward or penalty does Bushido promise for past behavior hold for the future of the soul?

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   16:26:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: rlk (#10)

The bible is for people that want to be perpetual victims and suckers and mistakenly believe they will go to heaven for their neurosis. They are only constructing a hell on earth.

Interesting.

So you believe that without Christians, America would actually still have existed, while this world without Christianity would be a better AND more logical place?

But I'm not sure how an adherent in Bushido, an atheist can be so sure that there is NO "Heaven." Or "hell" for that matter. By whose intellectual authority do you speak? "Opinion" again I suppose?

Whatever construct perceived within this physical realm we know as "earth," it cannot be transformed into collective "Hell" by those who believe in Jesus Christ. That is IF you are familiar with His life, His philosophy, His Gospel.

Yes, this life can be "hell-ish," but not nearly to the degree your finite mind can imagine within an iota of the actual reality. History has proven that those who have been in positions of power to create that hell-ish realm for humanity are mostly atheists, heathen, pagan, or those who've believed in the narcissistic self-delusion of their own self-deity.

Most of humanity has known there is a Being greater than we; A Creator. Only the illogical disbelieve this is so.

There has also been a strong innate instinct and knowledge within man's spirit of an eternal justice and accountability that exists beyond this realm. Rejecting or ignoring it doesn't invalidate either existence of the Judge AND Heaven and Hell. Especially not at the moment of expiration. At that moment your "opinion" will be deemed null and void. There will be no more terrifying moment than then -- to know you were....wrong.

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   17:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: A K A Stone (#11)

It isn't dumping coal on someones head to kill them.

I didn't state that it was.

Kluane  posted on  2015-07-13   19:46:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator (#18)

Most of humanity has known there is a Being greater than we; A Creator. Only the illogical disbelieve this is so.

Most of humanity has been wrong about important things throughout history. Two hundred years ago it was believed that bloodletting was the cure for all disease. More people were killed by the hypothetical cure than by the ailments the cure was being applied to. The earth and its people were once considered the center of the universe with the sun and its planets revolving around it.

Why is it logical to assume there is/was a creater? Where did he/she/it come from?

rlk  posted on  2015-07-13   20:16:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#2)

What does the Bible mean when it talks about heaping burning coals on your enemies head?

You set his mind afire. His pain would be from negative feelings about his own conduct compared to your response.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-13   20:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: rlk, Liberator (#20)

Why is it logical to assume there is/was a creater? Where did he/she/it come from?

Why the same place the Big Boom came from...............nothing at all. So which leap of faith is more logical?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   21:19:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: rlk (#10)

The bible is for people that want to be perpetual victims and suckers and mistakenly believe they will go to heaven for their neurosis.

Victims of whom? Suckers for whom?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   21:22:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: SOSO (#23)

Victims of whom? Suckers for whom?

Victims of people counting on their stupidity and accesibility to neurosis. The pope is one of them.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-13   21:29:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: rlk (#24)

Victims of people counting on their stupidity and accesibility to neurosis.

By that definition everyone on the planet is a victim of someone or something else. The biggest victims IMO have been We The People.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   21:32:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: rlk (#10)

Well, if you want to start murdering people to follow your way of Bushido, I guess that's your choice, but Christians have a different route to follow. God said vengeance belongs to Him. He knows far better how to do those things.

Don  posted on  2015-07-13   23:42:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Don (#26) (Edited)

God said vengeance belongs to Him. He knows far better how to do those things.

God does not concern himself with, or intervene, in the paltry affairs of men. Over the centuries millions of people have been killed ar made slaves by ruthless monsters. Half the people killed appealed to God to save them from the sword, the headmans axe, the bullet or whatever, were praying to God to save them. He didn't. We have a new corrupt master as head of this nation. God did not interfer with his election or his taking office. The only justice you receive in this life is that which you fight for and are vigilant enough to keep.

You think I'm mean and nasty for saying that. I can live with it. It's reality.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-14   1:28:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: rlk (#27)

You have a pretty large surprise coming to you.

Don  posted on  2015-07-14   6:01:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Don (#28)

You have a pretty large surprise coming to you.

You have a bigger one waiting for you.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-14   17:01:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Don (#28) (Edited)

You have a pretty large surprise coming to you.

So do you. If there is a Jesus as part of the trinity and you come before him, he is probably going to bust your head in retribution for the corruption, parasitism, and stupidity you have tolerated in his name.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-15   14:16:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: rlk, Don, redleghunter (#30)

If there is a Jesus as part of the trinity and you come before him, he is probably going to bust your head in retribution for the corruption, parasitism, and stupidity you have tolerated in his name.

Do you understand the context of the word "Grace" as it relates to either the Gospel OR the Savior?

This unresolved issue (in your mind) of how the Almighty regards sin, retribution, and forgiveness is exactly why you need to address a Pastor or Minister knowledgeable in the Word face-to-face.

In that case you may as well also lay ALL the cards on the table and address the main resentments you have of an Almighty who in your opinion *should* have made His Creation here on earth a pain-free, hate-free, criminal-free Paradise, and actively intercede or participate in the affairs (and will) of mankind.

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-15   15:24:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: rlk (#27)

God does not concern himself with, or intervene, in the paltry affairs of men.

The miraculous birth of this nation was indeed proof that God DOES intervene in the affairs of men.

So was His sacrifice of His Son on our behalf. There are posters of faith on this very forum who could also tell you that God HAS intervened on their behalf through prayer.

Btw -- would you rather have been blessed with 90 years on this mortal world as a man of earthly riches, period. OR, would you trade that all in for the intercession by his Son, Jesus Christ, KNOWING you will spend all eternity in Heaven?

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. ~ 1 Corinthians 2:9

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-15   15:44:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Liberator (#31) (Edited)

Do you understand the context of the word "Grace" as it relates to either the Gospel OR the Savior?

I understand the natural lawfuness of the real physical world. If your Jesus was that wise and all-knowing, He would have presented a book each on on engineering, economics, advanced clinical psychology, and philosophy of science to the world instead of babbling in gobbledegook, he would have advanced the progress of civilization four thousand years. As it is now, if you ask a relegious person about law or what two and two equals, they need to fumble through the bible looking for an answer.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-15   15:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: rlk (#33) (Edited)

I understand the natural lawfuness of the real physical world. If your Jesus was that wise and all-knowing, He would have presented a book each on on engineering, economics, advanced clinical psychology, and philosophy of science to the world...

Why do that when he created us with brains to do that for ourselves. That said, he DID leave us with knowledge in psychology (no "clinics" required) and philosophy. He also did leave us the best part -- chapters upon chapters on wisdom, morals, ethics, and virtue. And also how to leave this mortal plane in the dust for an immortal plane of Paradise.

....instead of babbling in gobbledegook.

How come it's not "babble" or "gobbledegook" to Bible scholars and average people...but to *you* it is?

...he would have advanced the progress of civilization four thousand years.

It seems as though mankind in time is now regressing psychological as well as morally. How do you account for that?

As it is now, if you ask a relegious person about law or what two and two equals, they need to fumble through the bible looking for an answer.

If you actually believe what you've written, that's amazingly ignorant claim.

Religious (Christian) scientists are the best scientists, most logical, and most honesty-based, forensic-minded because they can ignore the religious Cult of Science, their institutionally-advanced hoaxes, and bias-based agendas. They do this while rejecting the promotion and advancement of junk science in order to advance an imaginary, kooky "evolution," "Climate Change," or survivable "65 million year old dinosaur bones" agendas.

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-15   16:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator (#34)

Just because you say something does't make it true.

rlk  posted on  2015-07-15   16:40:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Stoner, liberator (#12)

I have to agree. Hitler was not stopped with Bible verses, nor was Goliath.

No but men of God did stop both. Men (and in some cases women) who were convinced of God's Word.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.---John 1:17

redleghunter  posted on  2015-07-15   16:55:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: rlk, liberator (#33)

If your Jesus was that wise and all-knowing, He would have presented a book each on on engineering, economics, advanced clinical psychology, and philosophy of science to the world

Why? He created man to think to reason and to learn. All programmed in our brain housing units. Some were gifted with the sciences, some economy, some with building etc. Not everyone 'everything' because the point of it all was for us to rely on each other until His coming.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.---John 1:17

redleghunter  posted on  2015-07-15   16:58:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: redleghunter (#36)

" men of God did stop both. Men (and in some cases women) who were convinced of God's Word. "

Very true. They had appropriate faith, and God gave them the means & skills. Just like the Revolutionary War, by all rules of logic, we should not have won. Yet we did. I have always contended that we won due to divine intervention.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-07-15   18:11:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: redleghunter (#37)

He created man to think to reason and to learn. All programmed in our brain housing units. Some were gifted with the sciences, some economy, some with building etc. Not everyone 'everything' because the point of it all was for us to rely on each other until His coming.

Did Jesus tell you that or did did you arrive it through your own powers of inference?

rlk  posted on  2015-07-15   18:18:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: rlk (#39)

Did Jesus tell you that or did did you arrive it through your own powers of inference?

Both. Jesus commanded Christians to love one another as He loved His disciples. So yes He did "tell" us that and we have His written Word as such evidence. We also have the evidence His followers, believers exercised such principles in the NT and the history after.

Observing the above and the environment around us, such that humans have unique talents, skills and a drive to pursue different careers or vocations, I see God's Design in such.

The Design is perfect; the human endeavor or application may not be.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.---John 1:17

redleghunter  posted on  2015-07-16   7:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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