[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"International court’s attack on Israel a sign of the free world’s moral collapse" "Pete Hegseth Is Right for the DOD" "Why Our Constitution Secures Liberty, Not Democracy" Woodworking and Construction Hacks "CNN: Reporters Were Crying and Hugging in the Hallways After Learning of Matt Gaetz's AG Nomination" "NEW: Democrat Officials Move to Steal the Senate Race in Pennsylvania, Admit to Breaking the Law" "Pete Hegseth Is a Disruptive Choice for Secretary of Defense. That’s a Good Thing" Katie Britt will vote with the McConnell machine Battle for Senate leader heats up — Hit pieces coming from Thune and Cornyn. After Trump’s Victory, There Can Be No Unity Without A Reckoning Vivek Ramaswamy, Dark-horse Secretary of State Candidate Megyn Kelly has a message for Democrats. Wait for the ending. Trump to choose Tom Homan as his “Border Czar” "Trump Shows Demography Isn’t Destiny" "Democrats Get a Wake-Up Call about How Unpopular Their Agenda Really Is" Live Election Map with ticker shows every winner. Megyn Kelly Joins Trump at His Final PA Rally of 2024 and Explains Why She's Supporting Him South Carolina Lawmaker at Trump Rally Highlights Story of 3-Year-Old Maddie Hines, Killed by Illegal Alien GOP Demands Biden, Harris Launch Probe into Twice-Deported Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Grayson Davis Previously-Deported Illegal Charged With Killing Arkansas Children’s Hospital Nurse in Horror DUI Crash New Data on Migrant Crime Rates Raises Eyebrows, Alarms Thousands of 'potentially fraudulent voter registration applications' Uncovered, Stopped in Pennsylvania Michigan Will Count Ballot of Chinese National Charged with Voting Illegally "It Did Occur" - Kentucky County Clerk Confirms Voting Booth 'Glitch'' Shifted Trump Votes To Kamala Legendary Astronaut Buzz Aldrin 'wholeheartedly' Endorses Donald Trump Liberal Icon Naomi Wolf Endorses Trump: 'He's Being More Inclusive' (Washed Up Has Been) Singer Joni Mitchell Screams 'F*** Trump' at Hollywood Bowl "Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race" He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom! "Kamala’s Inane Talking Points" "The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics" Easy Drywall Patch Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind" Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’ Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer? hurricanes and heat waves are Worse 'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA. Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: nolu chan contends an amendment to repeal the 2nd Amdt could be passed Source: LF URL Source: [None] Published: Jul 9, 2015 Author: tpaine Post Date: 2015-07-09 10:39:45 by tpaine Keywords: None Views: 79614 Comments: 255 The Congress proposes, and three-fourths of the states ratify the following amendment AMENDMENT 28. Section 1. The second article of amendment is hereby repealed. Section 2. The individual right to keep and bear, buy, make, and use arms is limited to .22 caliber handguns only. Section 3. All non-conforming guns must be surrendered to government authorities or destroyed within 30 days of ratification of this amendment. Section 4. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Poster Comment: During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional. Comments? Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 45. #3. To: tpaine (#0) During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional. Comments? Nolu Chan is legally correct. Through the amendment process the Constitution can be amended to say anything, except removing equal representation in the Senate. THAT requires unanimity of the states. The Constitution could be amended to require the sacrifice of first-born children. And if the sufficient majorities were found to vote for that, it would be "constitutional". Of course, then treason, and seeking the overthrow and destruction of the Constitution, and supporting foreign invasion and annihilation of the American government, would be the only morally correct thing to do. The Constitution does not guarantee MORAL content. The people have to do that. If the people become depraved and enact depraved laws, then "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed". America was always depraved. First there was slavery, then there was Indian genocide and segregation. Those things ended, but now we have abortion and the glorification of buggery. Most people think that those evils - slavery, segregation, abortion, gay marriage - are "sufferable evils" and don't rebel. And that would be the case with the Second Amendment abolition also, were it to pass. (Truth is, it could not pass in the current environment). Mandatory sacrifice of firstborn children would be bad enough to justify treason, and would swiftly result in its outbreak. Traitors who win are called "Founding Fathers" of the new order they usher in. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09   10:49:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: Vicomte13 (#3) America was always depraved. First there was slavery, then there was Indian genocide and segregation. Those things ended, but now we have abortion and the glorification of buggery. Disagree wholeheartedly on the above, Vic. In the relative scheme of things, the America of yore was NOT fundamentally evil OR depraved. Its leadership and citizenry by and large WERE a moral people. Contemporary America's standards teach a moral relativity. TOTALLY unlike the days of yore -- and even as recently as 50 years ago. Immorality and depravity are now glorified and sanctioned by America's leaders and institutions -- as well as an appreciable number citizenry. The morality as in the days of yore and defined by Biblical principles are now declared the new verboten. "Always depraved"? Not by a million miles. America was founded and governed fundamentally and extraordinarily morally and ethically. You can't just cherry-pick the way you have. Its few moral shortcomings were indeed addressed eventually and relatively rapidly -- unlike ANY civilization during the 5,000 prior years of history. American became immoral and depraved since the regime of Bill Klintoon, accelerated at the speed of light under the anti-Christ, 0blabla, and his minions. Liberator  posted on  2015-07-09   13:55:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: Liberator (#21) Well, this is where traditional conservatives and I part ways. I dislike the American Founders and do not hold them in any particular esteem. Therefore, I don't care what their intent was. What I care about are the wants and needs of 21st Century Americans in 2015. The structure of government we have underperforms and both under- and over- delivers on many things. To be reasonably free, we need to get society into the sweet spot, which lies above the threshold of enough social infrastructure to provide for the needs of an urbanized society, and below the threshold of overregulation and overcontrol. Going back to the 1700s will not achieve that. We need sewers, and that means eminent domain, taxation, and greater government imposition on private property than the Founders would have accepted. Traditional conservatives are 20% of the electorate. There are not enough of you to win. You need allies. Pragmatic libertarians and pragmatic modern religious moralists - people like me - are the natural allies, and we need allies too. But there have to be terms of agreement. Alliance has to be rooted in the present, without an a priori acceptance of either the Founders' desires, or Christianity or Judaism. A respect for human life and the desire to be as free as is reasonably possible, to not be ruled over and bullied, has to suffice. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09   14:10:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Vicomte13 (#25) Well, this is where traditional conservatives and I part ways. I dislike the American Founders and do not hold them in any particular esteem. Therefore, I don't care what their intent was. That saddens me, Vic. I realize mankind disappoints you -- as they do me. Heck -- *I* disappoint *myself.* By as imperfect as man is, or the Founders were, they chose the option of We-The-People over We-Your-Lords. They rejected man's fundamental instinct to be King of the Hill and narcissism, for a humble governance and personal sovereignty superseding that of "Rulers." When in history has THAT ever been the case? How do you not respect that?? Those Founders pledged and sacrificed EVERYTHING. What I care about are the wants and needs of 21st Century Americans in 2015. If ONLY 21st Century narcissism of the ruling elite followed the template of the Founders we wouldn't be in this position of tyranny, pseudo-slavery, and a near-dictatorship. The structure of government we have underperforms and both under- and over- delivers on many things. To be reasonably free, we need to get society into the sweet spot, which lies above the threshold of enough social infrastructure to provide for the needs of an urbanized society, and below the threshold of overregulation and overcontrol. Foisting socialism and the 'Great Plantation Society' aka "urban society" RUINED the black family and made generations of blacks fatherless, penniless, and moral-less. Coerced socialism is NOT an American ideal, so I don't know how you can base such a "solution" or responsibility on any moral mooring. Societies that thrive learn to fish. NOT to be confused with a state-mandated obligation to subsidize the lazy and the irresponsible. The truly needy and lame are a different case, as a measure of Christian charity. The "sweet spot" is a matter of individual motivation and planning -- NOT a bureaucratic "Village" holding gun to the head of the rest of us. Going back to the 1700s will not achieve that [enough social infrastructure.] We need sewers, and that means eminent domain, taxation, and greater government imposition on private property than the Founders would have accepted. Pure conjecture. The Founders were wise, and they placed a huge priority on independence, liberty, and commerce and innovation -- but they were also pragmatists. The society of the Founders already pitched in together and helped build infrastructure for the common good of all -- ports, roads, water/sewerage conduits, achieved in large part by free market capitalists by necessity. IF you d like to point at FDR's "workfare" programs as a matter of state-mandated socialist "success stories," THEY were indeed successful because they took the idle and used them to built roads, bridges, sewers, tunnels, etc, for a population never imagined, BUT were necessary. Why can't we (as a compromise) put all those unemployed to work on THESE days for public infrastructure projects? Is it because "Workfare" = "slavery" in some minds? OR it it because Union-Commies have made "workfare" a political hot potato? Traditional conservatives are 20% of the electorate. There are not enough of you to win. You need allies. Pragmatic libertarians and pragmatic modern religious moralists - people like me - are the natural allies, and we need allies too. But there have to be terms of agreement. Yes, yes....I understand the conservative 20% number....and the necessity to aly with those which we disagree to various degrees. So what shall be THE common thread which binds us? Alliance has to be rooted in the present, without an a priori acceptance of either the Founders' desires, or Christianity or Judaism....A respect for human life and the desire to be as free as is reasonably possible, to not be ruled over and bullied, has to suffice. If not bound by traditional embracement of standards of wisdom, liberty, OR the Founders' insistence on personal nd economic sovereignty, than what common cause then binds ANY Americans as allies? ONLY the private sector Liberator  posted on  2015-07-09   14:51:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: Liberator (#33) Societies that thrive learn to fish. Small societies. In a world of 6 billion, if everybody went fishing, the fish stocks in the rivers and lakes and oceans would be gone in a couple of years, and everybody would starve. In the modern, big, industrialized world with billions of people in it, merely learning to fish is NOT ENOUGH. It will certainly result in the end of fishing if everybody who wants or needs to fish just goes out fishing. We MUST have management of fisheries, that say when people can go fishing, and when they can't, and that intervene and stop people from fishing when the fisheries need to recover. Otherwise there will be no fish. That's not a theoretical. That is what has HAPPENED to key fisheries, and still is happening. And it is true across the board. A world with 6 billion people in it where people live in cities, not on farms, is a fundamentally different place that cannot operate on the same principles as a world where people could, and did, simple walk across a line of settlement to go live in the plains or the forests. There's no frontier anymore, and there are too many people to live every-man-for-himself. It saddens me that folks like you refuse to acknowledge this fundamental reality of an industrialized, heavily populated family. If we all live as though it were 1799, we will have epidemics and famines that will make the Black Death look modest. Philosophically, you are devoted to that past. I cannot follow you there. You're willing to look over the sins of the Founders, because you like them. You won't overlook the sins of, say, the Catholics, of any era, because you don't like them. That's nice for you. But no cooperation can be built on it. In realityville, we must have a heavy government infrastructure. And we will. We can make its footprint lighter upon our backs and foreheads, but we cannot will it away. I am willing to work with traditionalist conservatives to make things better. But going back to 1787 doesn't make anything better. So if that's the price, then there's no ability to deal, and that means that the Progressives, Liberals and Communists rule and run the state THEIR way. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09   15:02:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Vicomte13 (#35) Small societies. In a world of 6 billion, if everybody went fishing, the fish stocks in the rivers and lakes and oceans would be gone in a couple of years, and everybody would starve. In the modern, big, industrialized world with billions of people in it, merely learning to fish is NOT ENOUGH. It will certainly result in the end of fishing if everybody who wants or needs to fish just goes out fishing. We MUST have management of fisheries, that say when people can go fishing, and when they can't, and that intervene and stop people from fishing when the fisheries need to recover. Otherwise there will be no fish. That's not a theoretical. That is what has HAPPENED to key fisheries, and still is happening. And it is true across the board. I appreciate your addressing "fish" -- it's supply and demand and were it the context of my "Societies that thrive learn to fish" observation -- but it was a metaphor. People need to learn skills and crafts that allow them the self-respect and nobility of making their own living rather than relying on Uncle Sugar-Daddy Sam -- who thru its confiscated taxes which are supposed to maintain the infrastructure instead only help maintain their power over a voting constituency. Actually, fish-farming IS under-utilized source of food, don't you think? It seems easy enough to establish. Fisheries around the world -- specifically within the US's *former* 200 mile limit -- has been abused by *foreign* fisheries, which is yet more abuse of our sovereignty. As an aside, I do like your concept for management of domesticating deer for milk...but also could apply as meat. A world with 6 billion people in it where people live in cities, not on farms, is a fundamentally different place that cannot operate on the same principles as a world where people could, and did, simple walk across a line of settlement to go live in the plains or the forests. There's no frontier anymore, and there are too many people to live every-man-for-himself. And THAT is exactly the way the elites want it in America. On the plantation. Lazy, entitled, but 100% dependent upon the State for a FREE ride. They are "kept" voters. Like whores. Votes bought with the blood, sweat, and sacrifice of the producers and risk-takers. NOBODY is holding these people prison in America... As to the other billions, their corrupt governments (without a Founders' established American Bill of Rights/Constitution to un-bind them) keeps most of them in various states of economic slavery and serfdom. It saddens me that folks like you refuse to acknowledge this fundamental reality of an industrialized, heavily populated family. If we all live as though it were 1799, we will have epidemics and famines that will make the Black Death look modest....Philosophically, you are devoted to that past. I cannot follow you there. I am devoted to the principles and convictions of the American founders, much as I am to the Bible. The wise learn from the past and apply those principles to the present as well as future. NOT doing so is foolish. I also acknowledge and reject the lack of personal and national responsibly of those who embrace a herd mentality of entitlement, and those corrupt nations whose governments are ruled by tyranny and the elite few. THIS is why people have migrated to America -- some at great risk in the past and present. It is the Founders' fundamental concepts and laws steep in Judeo-Christian principles that created a standard of living and liberty that has been utterly unique in the annal of history. I expect the eventual famines and epidemics of disease. Why? Because America and her government no longer operate within the law and standards of moral and ethics it once did. And because we have rejected God, ergo we are no longer under His blessing. You're willing to look over the sins of the Founders, because you like them. You won't overlook the sins of, say, the Catholics, of any era, because you don't like them. That's nice for you. But no cooperation can be built on it. Can we both acknowledge that even the Founders were not perfect? That they sinned like every before and after them? CHALLENGE: Find me a better crop of men dedicated to the most noble ideals of man in history. CHALLENGE: Find group of leaders -- many Christian, God-fearing men -- more successful at creating a system dedicated to personal freedom and economic freedom, AND freedom to worship. WITHOUT COMPULSION to worship a man, a statue, an animal, several "gods" or the stars. Btw, I do not "dislike" Catholics; I do not dislike you, friend, and family are are Catholic. I dislike the notion that somehow the Popes are ANY such "Vicar of Christ." In my opinion, many Catholics are deceived. But that doesn't mean I dislike them necessarily. The Vatican and it's machination are a different story. In realityville, we must have a heavy government infrastructure. And we will. We can make its footprint lighter upon our backs and foreheads, but we cannot will it away. Dunno exactly what you mean; Are you suggesting that we need MORE heavy-handed government regs and bureaucratic control over our lives? Or by "infrastructure" do you mean maintenance and expansion of roads, bridges, water conduits, etc? 40 million uninvited illegal invaders have helped destroy our infrastructure. What do you propose about addressing the damage caused by the undocumented illegal invasion? I am willing to work with traditionalist conservatives to make things better. But going back to 1787 doesn't make anything better. So if that's the price, then there's no ability to deal, and that means that the Progressives, Liberals and Communists rule and run the state THEIR way. Your options are the same as mine, aren't they? :-) Except the principles AND convictions of the America, 1787, are ideals for a governance that STILL work in the year 2015. Instead, on what do you hang your ideological hat? A Monarchy? Liberator  posted on  2015-07-09   16:17:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 45. #51. To: Liberator (#45) People need to learn skills and crafts that allow them the self-respect and nobility of making their own living rather than relying on Uncle Sugar-Daddy Sam -- who thru its confiscated taxes which are supposed to maintain the infrastructure Except the principles AND convictions of the America, 1787, are ideals for a governance that STILL work in the year 2015. Instead, on what do you hang your ideological hat? A Monarchy? No, those ideas for governance don't work in 2015. I hang my ideological hat on direct reason from a handful of postulates, the first of which is the sanctity of life. Once that is acknowledged, then a whole lot of things necessarily follow, things that limit war and police power, and abortion and euthanasia. And things that require tending to matters of food, shelter, medicine and education. Monarchy? No. "...not tawdry rule of kings, but toil of serf and sweeper, the tale of lesser things." Yes, people need to learn skills and crafts and earn their own living. But the process of that learning requires many things, and most people cannot provide for them on their own. Literacy requires schooling. If schooling were all private, and based upon the resources of the parents, that would mean what it means every single place in the world, including America before universal public schooling was introduced in Massachusetts by the Puritans in the 1640s: 60-70% illiteracy rates overall, with double or triple the illiteracy rate among girls as boys. That's what it means. That's a fact of nature. Most people are not wealthy enough to provide a full private education to all of their children. Nowhere in the world have they ever been able to. In Colonial Puritan Massachusetts, the belief in Sola Scriptura meant that everybody needed to be able to read Scriptura, and that meant universal education. It was paid for by the people who could afford it. But for the poor who could not, it was paid for by taxes. And we have the records of people grousing about the taxes, and the colonial and religious leaders replying that it is MORE IMPORTANT that people read and know the Bible than that the people grousing about tithing for taxes to enable people to know the Scripture keep their money. It's an old fight. Net result: by 1650, THE most educated, most literate population in the world was Massachusetts Bay colony, a bunch of pioneers on a forest fringe. Universal public education, paid for by involuntary taxation, specifically to ensure that EVERYBODY, of both sexes, got an education and could be literate (and read the Bible), rapidly produced the best educated population in the world. By contrast, in the American South, there was no universal public education until the end of the 19th Century. Former slaves and poor whites had no schooling, and they were literally barefoot, dirty and barely getting by. In the modern industrial world, illiteracy means the inability to learn any useful skills. And THEREFORE, BECAUSE each child has to grow into adulthood, and 50-60% of parents are too poor to provide a full education to their children. We MUST HAVE universal public education, paid for by mandatory taxes. This is infrastructure in its purest form. It is a prerequisite for modern society, and for anybody getting any sort of job. It's not a luxury. It is as vital as clean water. It's not debatable. In truth, when local, state and federal expenditures on education are considered, education is THE single greatest expense of government - more than the military, more than Social Security. It is massively expensive, and it is vital. I would say that we need to regain control of the schools and return rationality to the process of hiring and paying teachers. There are vast administrative staffs who should be laid off: they do nothing productive. They create problems. That should end. But in ending that, we would not be cutting educational costs so as to reduce taxes. Nope. That money saved on useless administration should be poured back into getting more teachers, to bring down class sizes and make education better. Is universal public education "relying on Uncle Sugar-Daddy"? Well, it's paid for by taxes, it's really expensive, it's a permanent cost, and it's a huge gift to each child, so yes it is. And it is necessary infrastructure, the most expensive piece of all. It's not the only piece. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-09 17:01:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 45. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register]  Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com