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The Left's War On Christians
See other The Left's War On Christians Articles

Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html
Published: Jul 3, 2015
Author: July 02, 2015 | JACK MINOR
Post Date: 2015-07-03 23:06:14 by Don
Keywords: None
Views: 25134
Comments: 118

In the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s decision to redefine marriage in all 50 states, the Pentagon is now being urged to “cleanse itself” of chaplains who refuse to support same-sex marriage.

Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington.

Weinstein claims chaplains who are “maintaining the state of antagonism between their religion and the sexual/gender identities of service members” have no business serving in the military.

“Nobody is arguing that these losers don’t have a right to their religious beliefs,” wrote Weinstein in an op-ed.

“At this stage, the only honorable thing that these losers can do is to fold up their uniforms, turn in their papers, and get the hell out of the American military chaplaincy. If they are unwilling or too cowardly to do so, then the Department of Defense must expeditiously cleanse itself of the intolerant filth that insists on lingering in the ranks of our armed forces.”

While Weinstein frequently calls for the court-martialing of military members who attempt to share their faith with others, he is now calling for an entire class of chaplains to be fired regardless of whether their beliefs affect their job performance or not.

Brig. Gen. Doug Lee, now chairman of the executive committee for the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, said Weinstein’s views are extreme, showing a lack of understanding of a chaplain’s mission.

“His comments are so vitriolic and dividing that they are hardly worth responding to. He seems to feel the need to push his conspiracy theory about certain chaplains in the military,” Lee told WND. “In addition, I don’t think he understands that the job of chaplain exists in a pluralistic military so that people have religious support, and to do away with a certain group of chaplains in its entirety is just ridiculous.

“It’s like he never learned a thing in law school about the Constitution and about why chaplains exist.”

Lee contends one cannot say chaplains have no right to oppose homosexuality based on the teachings of their faith while also supporting their right to stand by other tenets, such as refusing to marry those outside of their faith.

“A chaplain cannot do something against his faith tenet such as marrying someone who has different religious beliefs if that is a tenet of their faith. They cannot be asked to do it, and they cannot be required to do it.”

Lee told WND that those who think a chaplain must affirm or support the beliefs of everyone who comes for counseling or teaching misunderstand the purpose of chaplains.

“The job of a chaplain is to provide religious support or perform religious support. The ‘provide’ part is to help a person find someone who can meet the individual’s spiritual needs. For example, I would not prepare a Passover meal for a Jewish service member, but I will direct them to a rabbi who can address that area. But when I do perform religious support, whether it be to teach, preach or counsel, I do so from my faith perspective.”

For his part, Weinstein said he’s looking forward to ending the conservative influence in the military.

“What will become of their once-ironclad dominance of fundamentalist Christian privilege within the Department of Defense?” said Weinstein.

Lee insists chaplains don’t use their pulpit and position to call on service members to disobey orders regarding the treatment of “gay” service members.

“For the vast majority of chaplains in the military, their faith groups believe that homosexuality is a sin and so they believe marriage is between a man and a woman as Christians have believed for thousands of years,” Lee explained to WND. “But the chaplains are saying that if someone comes to them for counseling with the homosexual partner they won’t ignore that person’s concerns, instead they will refer them to someone who can help with their specific needs because that’s part of providing religious support.”

WND reported how the military tried to silence opposition to repeal of the Revolutionary War ban on homosexuals serving in the military during a lame-duck session of Congress, after tea-party voters gave Republicans control of the House of Representatives in 2010.

In 2013, soldiers were given a training brief stating evangelical Christians were the No. 1 extremist threat to America, ahead of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Ku Klux Klan, Nation of Islam, al-Qaida and Hamas.

Catholicism and ultra-orthodox Judaism were also on the list of religious extremist organizations.

As WND reported, Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told the Washington Post in 2013 the biggest problems faced by the military were sexual assault and what he described as proselytizing by Christians.

Wilkerson’s comments were made to Sally Quinn in an interview that also featured former ambassador Joe Wilson and Weinstein as they were on their way to a meeting at the Pentagon.

Wilson told Quinn that if a chaplain would proselytize, it would be a workplace violation. Weinstein went even further and said it was a “national security threat” and amounted to “spiritual rape.” He said the chaplain’s role is to minister to spiritual needs.

Weinstein said military leaders need to understand “there is systematic misogyny, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the military.”

“What the Pentagon needs to understand is that it is sedition and treason. It should be punished.” Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html#rAB6z7mffBjuVXm4.99

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 90.

#4. To: Don (#0)

Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington.

Weinstein claims chaplains who are “maintaining the state of antagonism between their religion and the sexual/gender identities of service members” have no business serving in the military.

As the old testament and new testament condemn homosexual sex and define marriage in terms of a man and woman, this would seem to encompass all observant Jews and Christians.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-04   0:00:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: nolu chan, Don (#4)

As the old testament and new testament condemn homosexual sex and define marriage in terms of a man and woman, this would seem to encompass all observant Jews and Christians.

Lots of Muslims in the military about the same number of Jews.....

http://www.vosizneias.com/43746/2009/11/25/new-yor,-should-more-Jews-join- the-u-s-military/

Of a total of 1,359,948 active duty members of the military, just 4,515 are Jewish.

That’s just 1/3 of one percent of the total, leading only the Muslim service members, which total 3,409 at 1/2 of one percent. In the United States, Jews number between 5,128,000 and 6,444,000, and therefore make up between 1.7 and 2.2 % of our total population of 301,621,000 (U.S. Census Bureau). If Jews served in the military in proportion to their numbers in the general population, there should be between 23,119 and 29,919 Jews in the armed services today. The truth is there is less than 25% of that.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-04   0:21:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pericles (#5)

Lots of Muslims in the military about the same number of Jews.....

I should have included them too.

Now, what religion can the chaplains be drawn from? Wicca?

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-04   0:37:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu chan (#6)

The U.S. Army Chaplains Guide to Wicca

Ferret Mike  posted on  2015-07-04   8:35:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Ferret Mike (#12)

The U.S. Army Chaplains Guide to Wicca

But if devout, observant Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim clerics are excluded from the chaplain corps, do you believe your or anyone else could sell an all Wiccan or Pagan chaplain corps to the American people?

Challenging all who believe in one or both books of the Bible, or the Quran, might lead to quite a backlash.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-04   23:55:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: nolu chan (#39)

The religion of the chaplain is not the point, a chaplain is there to serve the spiritual and emotional needs of others.

Chaplains perform wedding or conduct funeral ceremonies, administer communion, deliver spiritual messages, offer prayer at public meetings, and provide regular counseling. Other chaplains meet the need of the moment, usually through listening and prayer.

I was a Wicca practitioner while in the military, but when I was facing a special court martial I was interviewed and evaluated by a Protestant chaplain for additional evaluation. I eventually was found not guilty, but I was under immense stress and not handling it well and the Chaplain, named Major Peacock helped me put things into perspective.

There will never likely ever be a 'pagan Chaplain Corp,' as there are not as meany Pagans in the military, or general society to draw on to have them in high numbers. The mix will likely always be with Christians in the majority, with a smaller number of Muslim, Jewish and members of other faiths like Wicca. Confronting people to try to challenge a service member's faith is something a Chaplain should never do.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2015-07-05   8:27:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Ferret Mike (#42)

The religion of the chaplain is not the point, a chaplain is there to serve the spiritual and emotional needs of others.

That is a point I have argued on another thread about Chaplain Modder who is facing possible separation.

http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=40191&Disp=All&#C76

His job as a chaplain, is to provide spiritual and emotional support. It is not to convert anyone to his personal religious beliefs. He is there to offer support, not to save them from perdition. A rabbi could offer support to a Catholic without condemning him for having bacon with his eggs. A single pregnant servicewoman does not seek the support of a chaplain to hear about the evils of pre-marital sex. A chaplain cannot counsel a muslim on the evils of Islam. A Christian might not take too kindly to a muslim chaplain counseling them on Sharia and halal. The chaplain must be able to offer comfort and support to all. It is not unChristian to comfort a gay person without confronting them with unwelcome condemnation of their lifestyle.

nolu chan at 2015-06-18 23:49:25 ET

However, the express point of the article of this thread is aimed any any chaplain who opposes gay marriage.

It would not be possible for a Catholic chaplain to perform a same-sex marriage and not get himself ex-communicated from his church. Similarly, I would expect fundamentalist Protestant, orthodox Jewish, or Muslim clerics to oppose same-sex marriage as inconsistent with their religion.

Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage

It is one thing to perform the job of a chaplain and to provide spiritual and emotional support to all and another thing to require them to actively participate in, or to actively support, something their religion does not permit. I would have expected a chaplain of any faith to have comforted and assisted you, as you relate one did. I would not expect the chaplain to partake of a Wiccan ceremony or to speak acceptingly of Wiccan beliefs.

SCOTUS has determined abortion is a constitutional right. Should the military kick out all doctors who oppose abortion? Somebody in the military opposes abortion as it is almost impossible for the military member to obtain one in a military hospital. Many or most civilian hospitals do not perform the procedure either.

What does it mean to "oppose gay marriage?" Does it mean to morally or religiously oppose it? To refuse to perform or participate in a gay marriage? To refuse to offer positive reinforcement in counseling a prospective spouse about an intended gay marriage? How does a Catholic chaplain positively counsel someone about doing something his religion condemns?

At what point does one person's fundamental right to marry someone of the same sex outweigh another person's freedom of religious expression?

If all the chaplains who are morally opposed to gay marriage are booted out of the service, who would be left? If all the doctors opposed to performing an abortion were booted out, would there be enough left to perform other procedures?

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-05   17:10:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: nolu chan, Liberator, CZ82, GarySpFc (#52)

What does it mean to "oppose gay marriage?" Does it mean to morally or religiously oppose it? To refuse to perform or participate in a gay marriage? To refuse to offer positive reinforcement in counseling a prospective spouse about an intended gay marriage? How does a Catholic chaplain positively counsel someone about doing something his religion condemns?

Well reasoned. But we are not dealing with a reasonable man in Weinstein. He has an agenda and will keep pushing it until someone calls him on his pair of 2s.

I'm sure a gay military couple will test the waters. They will come in to either a Baptist or Catholic chaplain and ask for marriage counseling. Both will point out that they do not advise such unions and will no doubt refer them to some chaplain who will. We will only hear about the refusal part and not the referral part. It will make "news" and the chaplains will be vilified but exonerated yet their career will be over. It will be a victory for the homosexual lobby. Future chaplains will be recruited based on the same sex marriage litmus test and another institution will be hijacked by the secular left.

You can all bookmark this post and refer to it when it happens.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-07-05   17:27:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: redleghunter (#55)

Defense Department spokesman Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said the ruling will not have any effect on the military when it comes to marriage recognition or benefits, since these have been in place since the court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act in 2013.

"The [DoD] has made the same benefits available to all military spouses, regardless of sexual orientation, as long as service member-sponsors provide a valid marriage certificate," Christen said.

The ruling also has no impact on the roles or responsibilities of military chaplains, he said.

"A military chaplain is not required to participate in or officiate at a private ceremony if doing so would be in variance with the tenets of his or her religion or personal beliefs," Christensen said.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/06/26/same-sex-marriage-now-legal-for-gay-military-couples-in-all-50.html

From Military.com website. Guess we'll see what happens.

CZ82  posted on  2015-07-05   19:08:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: CZ82, redleghunter (#59)

Defense Department spokesman Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said the ruling will not have any effect on the military when it comes to marriage recognition or benefits, since these have been in place since the court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act in 2013.

As more same-sex married couples enter the military community, difficulties will arise.

These couples could be active duty member and civilian spouse or two active duty members.

When opposite sex marital discord occurs, the couple is frequently mandated to marital counseling. How do they get counseled by a chaplain who finds their behavior morally repulsive and whom the couple also finds repulsive?

How does the military accomodate all this, in all circumstances and locations? If they ignore it in certain locations or circumstances, and it leads to one spouse killing the other, that would be a different legal problem.

http://www.military.com/spouse/relationships/military-marriage/strengthen-your-family-with-marital-counseling.html

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-05   19:25:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: nolu chan, CZ82, redleghunter (#63)

When opposite sex marital discord occurs, the couple is frequently mandated to marital counseling. How do they get counseled by a chaplain who finds their behavior morally repulsive and whom the couple also finds repulsive?

This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in.

/eyeball roll

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-06   10:49:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Liberator (#71)

This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in.

This entails an assumption that there will be such chaplains, and in sufficient quantity.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-06   14:08:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: nolu chan (#74)

This entails an assumption that there will be such chaplains, and in sufficient quantity.

AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish,Catholic,Protestant,Muslim,Buddist,or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes.

And given that this is an all-volunteer military today,no military member has any justification for throwing a hissy fit if he or she doesn't get the Chaplain of their Choice. Nobody forced them to enlist.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-07-06   16:24:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: sneakypete (#83)

AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddist, or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes.

Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited. A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling or be compelled to do so. The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows. They can encounter chaplains recusing themselves. Military doctors cannot be required to perform an abortion. Very few military abortions are performed.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-06   19:09:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: nolu chan (#88)

Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited.

They can do it,which is part of the job they swore an oath to do,or they can resign their commissions.

A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling

Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve.

The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows.

No,the real problem is allowing politically correct brain farts get in the way of the national defense. The Generals could see this coming down the road and were no doubt oppposed to it,but in the US the Generals are not in charge of the military. Whatever PC dumbass that is sitting in the WH can tell them to start wearing French Maid dresses,and all they can legally do is say "Yes Sir!" and hope it explodes in the media.

Frankly this should have never gotten this far. Neither should women serving in submarines or remote front line outposts with men. It's just asking for trouble where there MUST be unity.

BTW,Chaplins are supposed to be primarily in the soul-saving business,not the business of judging the value of people who come to them for help or trying to convert them to their faiths.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-07-06   21:14:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 90.

#93. To: sneakypete (#90)

A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling

Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve.

I intended not be able to in a literal sense. The chaplain may be unable to counsel how to best maintain a loving gay marriage when his own religious belief prevents him from discussing gay marriage in an approving manner. A chaplain might find it difficult to counsel them on gay sex life and marital obligations.

The couple is not there to be comforted due to the death of a relative, a neutral subject. They are there for counseling regarding a relationship the chaplain's religion condemns. The chaplain my opt out of engaging in certain discussion to the point where his best good faith effort cannot meet their needs.

It is not the duty of the chaplain to engage in anything which is repugnant to his own religious beliefs, just as it is not the duty of a military doctor to perform an abortion if that is repugnant to his religious beliefs.

The specific situation has not arisen before, so it is difficult to say what problems will be encountered, but the interaction is likely to be very awkward. There will almost certainly be a clash between chaplains and the military if orders are given and they feel unable to comply.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/catholic-military-chaplains-gay_n_3989043.html

Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling

Religion News Service
By David Gibson
Posted: 09/25/2013 11:15 am EDT
Updated: 09/25/2013 5:01 pm EDT

(RNS) Catholic military chaplains cannot be forced to witness or bless a same-sex marriage, nor are they allowed to take part in any marriage counseling retreats that are open to gay couples under new rules issued by the Archdiocese for the Military Services.

The rules, sent to chaplains on Sept. 18 by Archbishop Timothy P. Broglio, head of the AMS, also bar chaplains from taking part in a funeral for a Catholic if that participation “would give the impression that the church approves of same sex ‘marital’ relationships.”

But the new rules also set out conditions that would allow Catholic military commanders to comply, without violating their beliefs, with rules giving same-sex couples under their command federal employee benefits as required by law.

Broglio cited an interpretation from the National Catholic Bioethics Center explaining that Catholic commanders can morally facilitate benefits for gay couples in their command if there was no other way to avoid it without jeopardizing their career.

“This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to … participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law,” said the statement from the bioethics center.

Broglio promulgated the rules in response to the military’s repeal of the Don’t Ask/ Don’t Tell policy for service personnel and the Supreme Court’s decision this summer to strike down a key component of the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

The new policies were expected and follow similar guidelines issued last month by the Southern Baptist Convention for its chaplains.

But they came out just a day before the release of a groundbreaking interview in which Pope Francis said the church was “obsessed” with issues like gay rights and called for a “new balance” in its public witness.

There are 234 priests serving as active duty chaplains in the Army, Air Force and Navy for about 275,000 Catholic military personnel. About 25 percent of all personnel in the armed forces are Catholic, and eight percent of military chaplains are Catholic. Southern Baptists have nearly 1,500 endorsed chaplains serving in the U.S. military, more than any other denomination or faith group.

In his statement, Broglio said the new federal policy on gay marriage and gay rights for military personnel “makes it necessary to reiterate with clarity the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality.”

He said that same-sex couples account for less than half of one percent of couples in the armed forces and “such a small group cannot be allowed to mandate policy for all.”

“A clear disservice is rendered if the truth of the Gospel is confused by the actions of those ordained to disseminate that truth,” the archbishop said, adding that chaplains should also “never forget that it is the sin that is hated and never the sinner.”

The new rules also reiterate that “anyone who is known to be in a sinful relationship is excluded from ministries” such as serving as a lector, catechist, altar server or from giving out Communion.

Last year, Congress approved conscience protections for military members that allow them to express their personal beliefs without fear of punishment.

http://outservemag.com/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/

Outserve, March 2012

[excerpt]

The armed services have traditionally reflected the society they are sworn to defend. However, with the elimination of the draft, the military has moved to the political and cultural right, and so has the military chaplaincy. Today, partially as a result of a determined effort by some evangelical groups, chaplains endorsed by socially conservative denominations are in the majority within the military. Consequently, they exerted a significant and negative influence in the long and laborious journey to repeal DADT.

In 1993, when President Clinton tried to lift the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly, military chaplains led the opposition within the Pentagon working group. The same was true last year when the Comprehensive Review Working Group was conducting its investigation on the repeal of DADT. The chiefs of chaplains from the Army, Navy and Air Force, all from conservative denominations, were unanimous in their opposition to repeal. Their civilian allies from the Center for Military Readiness, Family Research Council, Alliance Defense Fund, Focus on the Family, Chaplains Alliance for Religious Liberty, and many denominational endorsers lobbied Congress to keep DADT and filed numerous documents opposing repeal with the Pentagon.

[...]

What about the right to religious liberty and access to welcoming and affirming military chaplains? And how can one find a safe and trusting environment on an installation where religious needs can be met? A brief history of the military chaplaincy might help answer those questions.

The concept of a military chaplaincy strains the delicate balance between religious liberty and the separation of church and state, values enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution. Citizens of the United States hold religious liberty to be a fundamental human right. At the same time, the establishment clause prohibits the recognition or preference of any official religion. Chaplains serving as endorsed clergy and commissioned military officers must walk that narrow and often precarious line between free exercise and religious establishment.

Other nations throughout history have long enlisted the support and services of clergy. The biblical record extols the exploits of Aaron, High Priest and brother of Moses, who served as spiritual counselor and military advisor. In the past, clergy have been called on to bless the troops, seek God’s favor, pray for the weather, mediate in times of war and peace, and even serve as sort of a rabbit’s foot for military leaders and service members. But that would hardly justify the mingling of church and state as seen in today’s military chaplaincy.

[...]

Some have objected to the demands of tolerance and pluralism, suggesting that the religious liberties and prerogatives of chaplains trump the duty to care for all service members, particularly service members who identify as LGBT. In a Feb. 17, 2010, letter to Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, the Alliance Defense Fund wrote: “Ominously, supporters of the policy change are already arguing that normalizing homosexual behavior would require chaplains to provide pastoral counsel to individuals engaged in such behavior, and that refusal to do so based on religious objections would be a ‘breach of duty,’” concluding that such would be a violation of chaplains’ religious liberty.

[...]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-07-08 00:45:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 90.

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