The Left's War On Christians
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Title: Pentagon Urged To Boot Chaplains Who Oppose 'Gay' Marriage
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URL Source: http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html
Published: Jul 3, 2015
Author: July 02, 2015 | JACK MINOR
Post Date: 2015-07-03 23:06:14 by Don
Keywords: None
Views: 25118
Comments: 118
In the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s decision to redefine marriage in all 50 states, the Pentagon is now being urged to “cleanse itself” of chaplains who refuse to support same-sex marriage. Activist Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is demanding the U.S. military conduct a purge of chaplains who holds to the traditional teaching of homosexuality and marriage espoused by the first commander in chief, George Washington. Weinstein claims chaplains who are “maintaining the state of antagonism between their religion and the sexual/gender identities of service members” have no business serving in the military. “Nobody is arguing that these losers don’t have a right to their religious beliefs,” wrote Weinstein in an op-ed. “At this stage, the only honorable thing that these losers can do is to fold up their uniforms, turn in their papers, and get the hell out of the American military chaplaincy. If they are unwilling or too cowardly to do so, then the Department of Defense must expeditiously cleanse itself of the intolerant filth that insists on lingering in the ranks of our armed forces.” While Weinstein frequently calls for the court-martialing of military members who attempt to share their faith with others, he is now calling for an entire class of chaplains to be fired regardless of whether their beliefs affect their job performance or not. Brig. Gen. Doug Lee, now chairman of the executive committee for the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, said Weinstein’s views are extreme, showing a lack of understanding of a chaplain’s mission. “His comments are so vitriolic and dividing that they are hardly worth responding to. He seems to feel the need to push his conspiracy theory about certain chaplains in the military,” Lee told WND. “In addition, I don’t think he understands that the job of chaplain exists in a pluralistic military so that people have religious support, and to do away with a certain group of chaplains in its entirety is just ridiculous. “It’s like he never learned a thing in law school about the Constitution and about why chaplains exist.” Lee contends one cannot say chaplains have no right to oppose homosexuality based on the teachings of their faith while also supporting their right to stand by other tenets, such as refusing to marry those outside of their faith. “A chaplain cannot do something against his faith tenet such as marrying someone who has different religious beliefs if that is a tenet of their faith. They cannot be asked to do it, and they cannot be required to do it.” Lee told WND that those who think a chaplain must affirm or support the beliefs of everyone who comes for counseling or teaching misunderstand the purpose of chaplains. “The job of a chaplain is to provide religious support or perform religious support. The ‘provide’ part is to help a person find someone who can meet the individual’s spiritual needs. For example, I would not prepare a Passover meal for a Jewish service member, but I will direct them to a rabbi who can address that area. But when I do perform religious support, whether it be to teach, preach or counsel, I do so from my faith perspective.” For his part, Weinstein said he’s looking forward to ending the conservative influence in the military. “What will become of their once-ironclad dominance of fundamentalist Christian privilege within the Department of Defense?” said Weinstein. Lee insists chaplains don’t use their pulpit and position to call on service members to disobey orders regarding the treatment of “gay” service members. “For the vast majority of chaplains in the military, their faith groups believe that homosexuality is a sin and so they believe marriage is between a man and a woman as Christians have believed for thousands of years,” Lee explained to WND. “But the chaplains are saying that if someone comes to them for counseling with the homosexual partner they won’t ignore that person’s concerns, instead they will refer them to someone who can help with their specific needs because that’s part of providing religious support.” WND reported how the military tried to silence opposition to repeal of the Revolutionary War ban on homosexuals serving in the military during a lame-duck session of Congress, after tea-party voters gave Republicans control of the House of Representatives in 2010. In 2013, soldiers were given a training brief stating evangelical Christians were the No. 1 extremist threat to America, ahead of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Ku Klux Klan, Nation of Islam, al-Qaida and Hamas. Catholicism and ultra-orthodox Judaism were also on the list of religious extremist organizations. As WND reported, Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told the Washington Post in 2013 the biggest problems faced by the military were sexual assault and what he described as proselytizing by Christians. Wilkerson’s comments were made to Sally Quinn in an interview that also featured former ambassador Joe Wilson and Weinstein as they were on their way to a meeting at the Pentagon. Wilson told Quinn that if a chaplain would proselytize, it would be a workplace violation. Weinstein went even further and said it was a “national security threat” and amounted to “spiritual rape.” He said the chaplain’s role is to minister to spiritual needs. Weinstein said military leaders need to understand “there is systematic misogyny, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the military.” “What the Pentagon needs to understand is that it is sedition and treason. It should be punished.” Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July02/024.html#rAB6z7mffBjuVXm4.99
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#78. To: redleghunter, CZ82, liberator (#77)
The Marines almost religiously hold their Marine Ball. But that image you bring up, I just can't picture that with a room of Marines. Something for troubled couples will continue. It does not have to be effective, but command has to be able to say they took appropriate measures. They have to invent something and deem it appropriate.
In the last few years couples have gone straight to marriage counselors on referral off post or on post. That's probably the direction they are going in now. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
No,I leave that to the people who believe in magic and miracles. "Christians" are NOT defined by their so-called "leaders" - LOL! Good one! Ever try to explain that theory to the Pope? which in your fevered mind are Jim Baker, Swaggert, Oral Roberts, and the Pope. You are so disengaged from understanding the very definition of "Christian," I think I understand it better than most cult members. If they understood it at all,most would stop going to the churches they attend. Nothing fevered or imaginative about it,those ARE some of the better known Christian leaders,even though they are also competitors. I do think Anal Roberts is currently taking a dirt nap,though. So are all the Popes with the exception of the latest guy with the pointy hat. I rest my case. Like I said -- you are monumentally disengaged from reality. You just go ahead and keep ignoring all the people murdered by various religious cults,as well as all the local and major wars that were fought in the name of Gawd if that makes you feel better,if that is what helps you get through the day. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Please tell us about your vast experience with and personal knowledge of Pagan and Wiccan religious leaders and beliefs. Please feel free to leave out all the ones YOUR religion murdered and burned at the stake over the centuries if it makes you feel better because nobody should be held accountable for what they say when you set them on fire. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Were those interdenominational with Protestant Chaplains working with Protestant couples,Catholics with Catholic couple,Jews working with Jewish couples,etc,etc,etc? I really don't see how they would have worked very well if that had not been the case. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish,Catholic,Protestant,Muslim,Buddist,or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes. And given that this is an all-volunteer military today,no military member has any justification for throwing a hissy fit if he or she doesn't get the Chaplain of their Choice. Nobody forced them to enlist. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Why humor you further? You already have all the answers you need. /Staff of Swiss Psychiatrists Please feel free to leave out all the ones YOUR religion murdered and burned at the stake over the centuries if it makes you feel better because nobody should be held accountable for what they say when you set them on fire. It's as though I'm on one planet (Earth), and you're on another (PLUTO.) LOVE the dopey visit back into your time-machine, the lack of context as it relates to the original subject, AND vast, select self-serving revisionist history to boot. But it's par for the course. YOUR insane course. Let's just call this post of yours, 'Sneakypete's Mount Everest of Irrelevance, Stupidity and Ignorance'.
HUH?? Lol.. Tell us what your dumb-azz rants have to do with the subject at hand -- the persecution IN AMERICA of Fundamental Christian Chaplains, the hijacking of the military and government by subversives, AND what it means for America. NOT in the year 1515 but in the year 2015. I think I understand it [definition of Christian] better than most cult members. You don't even know the definition of "atheist." OR worst than that, "insanity." CLUE: Mirror.
Too full of uncomfortable truths,huh? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
One of us doesn't,and it ain't me. As I have stated before,I am not a member of ANY organized religion,including atheism. OR worst than that, "insanity." People who see visions and believe in miracles and magic are considered to be insane. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited. A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling or be compelled to do so. The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows. They can encounter chaplains recusing themselves. Military doctors cannot be required to perform an abortion. Very few military abortions are performed.
Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
They can do it,which is part of the job they swore an oath to do,or they can resign their commissions. A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve. The problem is not a gay couple hissy fit, but the military finding enough suitable chaplains to fill the need if the same-sex married military population grows. No,the real problem is allowing politically correct brain farts get in the way of the national defense. The Generals could see this coming down the road and were no doubt oppposed to it,but in the US the Generals are not in charge of the military. Whatever PC dumbass that is sitting in the WH can tell them to start wearing French Maid dresses,and all they can legally do is say "Yes Sir!" and hope it explodes in the media. Frankly this should have never gotten this far. Neither should women serving in submarines or remote front line outposts with men. It's just asking for trouble where there MUST be unity. BTW,Chaplins are supposed to be primarily in the soul-saving business,not the business of judging the value of people who come to them for help or trying to convert them to their faiths. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Yes he was booted. Not so much because he was wiccan but that he was sponsored as a Pentecostal chaplain and then turned wiccan. Thus he lost his 'sponsorship' of the denomination and when that happens the Army will boot the chaplain. Don't think there are any other wiccan chaplains. The post chaplains usually give in to their demands of funds for their witchcraft ceremonies. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
You are correct in your statements.
I intended not be able to in a literal sense. The chaplain may be unable to counsel how to best maintain a loving gay marriage when his own religious belief prevents him from discussing gay marriage in an approving manner. A chaplain might find it difficult to counsel them on gay sex life and marital obligations. The couple is not there to be comforted due to the death of a relative, a neutral subject. They are there for counseling regarding a relationship the chaplain's religion condemns. The chaplain my opt out of engaging in certain discussion to the point where his best good faith effort cannot meet their needs. It is not the duty of the chaplain to engage in anything which is repugnant to his own religious beliefs, just as it is not the duty of a military doctor to perform an abortion if that is repugnant to his religious beliefs. The specific situation has not arisen before, so it is difficult to say what problems will be encountered, but the interaction is likely to be very awkward. There will almost certainly be a clash between chaplains and the military if orders are given and they feel unable to comply. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/catholic-military-chaplains-gay_n_3989043.html Religion News Service (RNS) Catholic military chaplains cannot be forced to witness or bless a same-sex marriage, nor are they allowed to take part in any marriage counseling retreats that are open to gay couples under new rules issued by the Archdiocese for the Military Services. The rules, sent to chaplains on Sept. 18 by Archbishop Timothy P. Broglio, head of the AMS, also bar chaplains from taking part in a funeral for a Catholic if that participation “would give the impression that the church approves of same sex ‘marital’ relationships.” But the new rules also set out conditions that would allow Catholic military commanders to comply, without violating their beliefs, with rules giving same-sex couples under their command federal employee benefits as required by law. Broglio cited an interpretation from the National Catholic Bioethics Center explaining that Catholic commanders can morally facilitate benefits for gay couples in their command if there was no other way to avoid it without jeopardizing their career. “This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to … participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law,” said the statement from the bioethics center. Broglio promulgated the rules in response to the military’s repeal of the Don’t Ask/ Don’t Tell policy for service personnel and the Supreme Court’s decision this summer to strike down a key component of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. The new policies were expected and follow similar guidelines issued last month by the Southern Baptist Convention for its chaplains. But they came out just a day before the release of a groundbreaking interview in which Pope Francis said the church was “obsessed” with issues like gay rights and called for a “new balance” in its public witness. There are 234 priests serving as active duty chaplains in the Army, Air Force and Navy for about 275,000 Catholic military personnel. About 25 percent of all personnel in the armed forces are Catholic, and eight percent of military chaplains are Catholic. Southern Baptists have nearly 1,500 endorsed chaplains serving in the U.S. military, more than any other denomination or faith group. In his statement, Broglio said the new federal policy on gay marriage and gay rights for military personnel “makes it necessary to reiterate with clarity the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality.” He said that same-sex couples account for less than half of one percent of couples in the armed forces and “such a small group cannot be allowed to mandate policy for all.” “A clear disservice is rendered if the truth of the Gospel is confused by the actions of those ordained to disseminate that truth,” the archbishop said, adding that chaplains should also “never forget that it is the sin that is hated and never the sinner.” The new rules also reiterate that “anyone who is known to be in a sinful relationship is excluded from ministries” such as serving as a lector, catechist, altar server or from giving out Communion. Last year, Congress approved conscience protections for military members that allow them to express their personal beliefs without fear of punishment. http://outservemag.com/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/ Outserve, March 2012 [excerpt] In 1993, when President Clinton tried to lift the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly, military chaplains led the opposition within the Pentagon working group. The same was true last year when the Comprehensive Review Working Group was conducting its investigation on the repeal of DADT. The chiefs of chaplains from the Army, Navy and Air Force, all from conservative denominations, were unanimous in their opposition to repeal. Their civilian allies from the Center for Military Readiness, Family Research Council, Alliance Defense Fund, Focus on the Family, Chaplains Alliance for Religious Liberty, and many denominational endorsers lobbied Congress to keep DADT and filed numerous documents opposing repeal with the Pentagon. [...] What about the right to religious liberty and access to welcoming and affirming military chaplains? And how can one find a safe and trusting environment on an installation where religious needs can be met? A brief history of the military chaplaincy might help answer those questions. The concept of a military chaplaincy strains the delicate balance between religious liberty and the separation of church and state, values enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution. Citizens of the United States hold religious liberty to be a fundamental human right. At the same time, the establishment clause prohibits the recognition or preference of any official religion. Chaplains serving as endorsed clergy and commissioned military officers must walk that narrow and often precarious line between free exercise and religious establishment. Other nations throughout history have long enlisted the support and services of clergy. The biblical record extols the exploits of Aaron, High Priest and brother of Moses, who served as spiritual counselor and military advisor. In the past, clergy have been called on to bless the troops, seek God’s favor, pray for the weather, mediate in times of war and peace, and even serve as sort of a rabbit’s foot for military leaders and service members. But that would hardly justify the mingling of church and state as seen in today’s military chaplaincy. [...] Some have objected to the demands of tolerance and pluralism, suggesting that the religious liberties and prerogatives of chaplains trump the duty to care for all service members, particularly service members who identify as LGBT. In a Feb. 17, 2010, letter to Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, the Alliance Defense Fund wrote: “Ominously, supporters of the policy change are already arguing that normalizing homosexual behavior would require chaplains to provide pastoral counsel to individuals engaged in such behavior, and that refusal to do so based on religious objections would be a ‘breach of duty,’” concluding that such would be a violation of chaplains’ religious liberty. [...]
“As long as a city is encircled with walls all around,” wrote John Chrysostom, “it mocks its besiegers and remains in perfect safety. But once a breach is made in the wall, no larger than a gate, the circuit is no more use to it, though all the rest stands safe.” It is the same, he says, in the church: “As long as the nimble wits and the wisdom of the shepherd encompass it like a wall all around, all the enemy’s devices end in his own shame and ridicule, and the inhabitants remain unharmed; but when someone manages to break down a part of this defense, even though he fails to destroy it all, from that moment practically the whole city is ruined through that one part.” John Chrysostom on Culture Warsa And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
I doubt the issues are any different since they are all human. It's going to be about money,power and control,not being home enough,being home too much,not enough sex,too much sex,jealousy,and relatives. Some things are universal. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Yes he was booted. Not so much because he was wiccan but that he was sponsored as a Pentecostal chaplain ND THEN TURNED WICCAN. Thus he lost his 'sponsorship' of the denomination and when that happens the Army will boot the chaplain. Don't think there are any other wiccan chaplains. The post chaplains usually give in to their demands of funds for their witchcraft ceremonies. So the Wiccan lied about his intent. Gee, what a surprise. From this day forward we can expect just about any cult (in the name of "equal protection/rights") to be humored. Never mind military and civilian law and protocol were always maintained accordingly. ALL this "social justice" nonsense adopting civilian criteria comes straight from the House of Ill Repute, Sodom, DC.
Dedicated to all the Wiccans. Enjoy the trip.
It is the same, he says, in the church: “As long as the nimble wits and the wisdom of the shepherd encompass it like a wall all around, all the enemy’s devices end in his own shame and ridicule, and the inhabitants remain unharmed; but when someone manages to break down a part of this defense, even though he fails to destroy it all, from that moment practically the whole city is ruined through that one part.” ~ John Chrysostom on Culture Warsa Wisdom and observations well worth repeating, Gary. Thanks. America's gates were severely compromised in 1973; Today the city walls of our nation, our church of righteousness and commitment to the principles of good, honor, and virtue have been breached by the enemy within, collapsed and carnage on display as seen though this Soviet lens, Berlin, 1945. Only THEN will these perverse subversives be happy. In my mind, the above photo presents the fantasy and goal of the the anti-Christian, anti-God, anti-American principle.
Twisted Sister. A Cartoon character "band" that prayed upon adolescent stupidity and ignorance. Musically, and every way possible Dee Snider and they were an embarrassment to the eye, to the ear, and to the soul.
This is what I found on the guy. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!! “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
There are 234 priests serving as active duty chaplains in the Army, Air Force and Navy for about 275,000 Catholic military personnel. About 25 percent of all personnel in the armed forces are Catholic, and eight percent of military chaplains are Catholic. Southern Baptists have nearly 1,500 endorsed chaplains serving in the U.S. military, more than any other denomination or faith group. 234 priests being 8% of military chaplains infers the total of chaplains is ~2,925. The article infers that a requirement to engage in counseling same-sex marriage partners would result in the decertification of 1,500 Southern Baptists and 234 Roman Catholics, and presumably some unknown quantity of Christian fundamentalists, Jews and Muslims. A loss of 1,734 Baptist/Catholic chaplains of 2,925 total would be 59% of all chaplains. This is not a choice made by the individual chaplain. Their religious group asserted it would withdraw its endorsement causing the chaplain to be ineligible for the military chaplain corps. Would a chaplain corps that 100% supports gay marriage be able to survive in the military?
FYI. I was not aware of this until last night. Unless there is a policy change, it appears Catholic and Southern Baptist chaplains are barred from counseling same-sex couples since a 2013 military archdiocese statement of guidance, and the Southern Baptist Convention has acted similarly. That would affect over half the chaplain corps. Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling [HuffPo Article] http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=6536793&ct=13291927¬oc=1 CATHOLIC STATEMENT OF GUIDANCE Archbishop Broglio has issued a steatement which provides guidance for Catholic chaplains and contract priests and deacons who may encounter ministry situations involving Catholic or non-Catholic parties in same gender “marital” relationships. The full text for Archbishop Broglio's statement Renewed Fidelity in Favor of Evangelization can be found below: "As members of the Church founded by Jesus Christ to meet the needs of the baptized and to proclaim that good news about the salvation given by Him, we are also aware of His clear teaching about the danger of scandal (Mt. 18:6). This world is a pilgrimage to life without end. At the conclusion of our walk through life we must stand before the Throne of Grace to give an accounting of our fidelity. St. Paul reminds priests to be all things to all people (1Cor. 9:22). A clear disservice is rendered if the truth of the Gospel is confused by the actions of those ordained to disseminate that truth. The current situation makes it necessary to reiterate with clarity the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality. However, it must never be forgotten that the human condition occasions many failings. St. Paul continually reminds us of that fact in his letters to the communities of believers. Priests ordained to minister Word and Sacrament and endorsed to serve Catholics in the Armed Forces, the Veterans Administration Medical Centers, and those who serve the US Federal Government outside the borders of the United States of America know that theirs is a twenty-four-seven vocation. By speech, action, and example they witness to the truth revealed by the Lord in all that they do (see Eph. 4:14). Recent changes in interpretations of the laws of the Federal Government oblige me to recall what is clearly held by the Catholic Church. At the same time I am grateful to the Congress of the United States for its passage of renewed conscience-protection language, specifically for chaplains in the Armed Forces. Ministry No Catholic priest or deacon may be forced by any authority to witness or bless the union of couples of the same gender. No Catholic priest or deacon can be obliged to assist at a “Strong Bonds” or other “Marriage Retreat”, if that gathering is also open to couples of the same gender. A priest who is asked to counsel non-Catholic parties in a same-gendered relationship will direct them to a chaplain who is able to assist. Catholic parties will, of course, be encouraged by the priest to strive to live by the teaching of the Gospel. Participation in retirements, changes of command, and promotion ceremonies is possible, as long as the priest is not required to acknowledge or approve of a “spouse” of the same gender. While the tradition of the Catholic Church always tries to find reasons to bury the dead, a priest may not be placed in a situation where his assistance at a funeral for a Catholic would give the impression that the Church approves of same sex “marital” relationships (see CIC, c. 1184, §1,3º). In the case of doubt, the Archbishop for the Military Services, USA must be consulted (see CIC, c. 1184, §2). Lay Ministries Obviously, anyone who is known to be in a sinful relationship is excluded from ministries in the Catholic community. While this list is not intended to cover every situation, lectors, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, altar servers, catechists, and members of the Catholic Council immediately come to mind. Participation We are also mindful of the Lord’s words, “Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw a stone…” (Jn. 8:7b). The Church must minister to all regardless of their sexual inclination. While the invitation to conversion cannot be diluted, the door to the mercy of Christ, obtained through His Cross, must be kept open. Priests and deacons will be guided by the principles of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (cf. nos. 2358-2359) and never forget that it is the sin that is hated and never the sinner. In the quest for continued fidelity to the truth of the Gospel, it must not be forgotten that estimates indicate that same-gender couples represent less than half of one percent of those in the Armed Forces. While every individual is important, such a small group cannot be allowed to mandate policy for all. Guidance for Catholics in Command Positions I am not unaware that the faithful entrusted to my pastoral care also include those Catholics who exercise command positions. They can be faced with additional questions as they fulfill their responsibilities to those above and below them in the chain of command. Consequently in response to a doubt raised by the AMS regarding the question of a person’s possible cooperation with evil, the National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC) stated: “Commanders of United States military installations/veterans’ facilities (hereafter, ‘commanders’) would not be engaging in morally illicit cooperation, but rather tolerable remote mediate material cooperation with evil by implementing federal employee benefits accruing pursuant to same-sex marriage, as required by United States v. Windsor. Our determination is contingent on the situations in which commanders are unable to avoid such cooperation without jeopardizing their own just right to their employment security for themselves and/or their families. This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to so participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law. Also, if without incurring a demotion of loss or downgrade of position/rank/grade or other serious harm, there is a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy, this should be pursued.” Most Reverend Timothy P. Broglio - - - - - Washington, DC, 17 September 2013, Memorial of St. Robert Bellarmine Response to the Archdiocese for Military Services by The National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC) Question Pertaining to Cooperation with Evil: Re – Commanders’ of Military Installations/Veterans’ Facilities Compliance with Same-Sex Couple Benefits Pursuant to the U.S. Supreme Court Decision (SCOTUS) United States v. Windsor Conclusion: Commanders of United States military installations/veterans’ facilities (hereafter, “commanders”) would not be engaging in morally illicit cooperation, but rather tolerable remote mediate material cooperation with evil by implementing federal employee benefits accruing pursuant to same-sex marriage, as required by United States v. Windsor. Our determination is contingent on the situations in which commanders are unable to avoid such cooperation without jeopardizing their own just right to their employment security for themselves and/or their families. This is also contingent on the commander making known his/her objection to being required to so participate, as well as on attempting through legal channels to continue to accomplish changes in policy consistent with the historic understanding of marriage and family as based on natural moral law. Also, if without incurring a demotion of loss or downgrade of position/rank/grade or other serious harm, there is a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy, this should be pursued. History: The federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), signed into law on September 21, 1996, defined marriage under federal policy, and the federal benefits that can accrue from it, as between one man and one woman. SCOTUS, in United States v. Windsor (June 26, 2013, to be implemented by July 21, 2013, retroactive to date of decision; but installations have until October 1, 2013 to fully implement this policy change), overturned section 3 of DOMA, pertaining to the federal benefits that were available to heterosexual couples, finding that to prevent access to such benefits by legally married same-sex couples is unconstitutional. Such federal benefits include, among other benefits: federal employee health (including COBRA) and pension benefits; federal employee option to use family medical leave to care for a spouse; federal employer recognition of the children of same-sex married couples as the employee’s stepchildren (if not biological or adopted children of both partners); spousal income tax exclusion of employer-provided health benefits; Social Security survivors’ benefits; the opportunity to sponsor a foreign-born spouse for citizenship; and access to veterans’ spousal benefits. The decision concluded that DOMA violated the Fifth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection of laws as applied to persons of the same sex who are legally married under the laws of their state. Moral Question: Can Commanders who are responsible for implementing the aforementioned policy for their military and civilian personnel, and their now legally recognized (under federal law) families, do so without engaging in morally illicit cooperation with evil? It is our understanding that through guidance issued by the U.S. Department of Defense in September 2011, military chaplains in installation chapels may witness/perform same-sex marriages if they choose to do so; however, this is not the question that has been posed to the NCBC at present. Cooperation with Evil: Formal Cooperation in evil, which always is morally illicit, would exist if the cooperator (commander) has the same intent as these principal agents (the federal government and the same-sex couples) in recognizing same-sex marriages as equivalent to heterosexual marriages through the granting of federal benefits. The evil that is occurring is not in the actual granting of such benefits, but in the affirmation of unions contrary to natural law, as well as of the actions that contribute to fatherlessness or motherlessness of children. Since the commander may implement such policies out of obedience to the chain of command not for the sake of promoting immorality, but to maintain the commander’s position/rank/grade, this might appear to be implicit formal cooperation. However, when there is an objection to the policy, and since the granting of employee benefits, itself, does not accomplish unions contrary to natural moral law, or create homes which already exist that are fatherless or motherless, the commander’s implementation of federal policies pursuant to United States v. Windsor does not constitute formal cooperation in evil, explicit or implicit. Immediate Material Cooperation with evil is virtually always morally illicit as it provides material assistance that is essential to immoral acts of the principal agents, thus, causing the act to be accomplished. As cited, above, the causation between the granting of employees benefits and the immoral acts is not direct. Thus, the commander is not engaging in immediate material cooperation. Mediate Material Cooperation with evil involves the provision of material assistance which is non-essential to the immoral acts of the principal agents, which facilitates/makes possible the immoral acts, without a direct causal relationship. Depending on the significance of the cooperation to facilitating the immoral acts this cooperation may be proximate or remote. Both proximate or remote mediate material cooperation may be tolerated if: there is a proportionate good to be achieved/maintained in relationship to the evil (commander’s position/rank/grade and maintenance of support of self/family, and continued presence in the chain of command of a commander who respects natural moral law); efforts are made to avoid having to cooperate in the evil, as well as to change policy within what is possible based upon the role of the commander; there is an attempt to secure a mechanism to have others more senior in the chain of command to carry out the implementation of such policy; and objections to policy are presented. The role of the commander in implementation United States v. Windsor would appear to involve justifiable remote mediate material cooperation under the conditions specified in this section." Date: 10/2/2013
Following the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, Weinstein suggested that proselytizing by "fundamentalist Christians" may have created a hostile environment that contributed to the psychological pressure on Major Nidal Malik Hasan. Hasan reportedly claimed that he had faced harassing insults related to his Arab ethnic background and Islamic faith.[11][12][13] In November 2009, the American Family Association issued the statement "No More Muslims in the US Military", which explicitly stated that Muslim military enlistees be barred from military service in the United States armed forces on the grounds that "...just as Christians are taught to imitate the life of Christ, so Muslims are taught to imitate the Prophet in all things. Yesterday, Nidal Malik Hasan was simply being a good Muslim." [14] MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein 's denunciation of the AFA position as "bigoted, racist, [and] vile" was featured prominently by Hatewatch, the official blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center civil rights organization.[15]. Wikipedia
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Mikey W has declared war on Christians. And thus should be considered a domestic enemy combatant/terrorist.
I can see it from a thousand miles away. BLINDFOLDED. This guy was a lying, scheming homofascist from Minute One.
LOL...What a way with words. Yes, what makes these soul-defective self-loathing snakes "happy" is a shared the misery and death. In both this life as well as the next. They'll hi-five you as you both plunge into the depths of hell.
I went back and look at the posts on this thread and only 2 of them made any comments on this subject, and that was early on. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Thank you for clearing that up for me. Would a chaplain corps that 100% supports gay marriage be able to survive in the military? Of course. At least as far as the military is concerned. Same as if 100 % of the Chaplains serving did NOT support homosexual marriages (I HATE the term "gay" because by implication if homosexuals are happy,heterosexuals are unhappy) and the military told them to not marry homosexual military members. The US military does not make policy. They follow orders. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Correction. He has declared war on AMERICA. INCLUDING Christians. And thus should be considered a domestic enemy combatant/terrorist. Works for me. He is also a Israeli citizen,so we should just dump his ass out with bag and baggage at an Israeli airport,and tell him he will be shot on sight if he comes back to America. Let Israel deal with him and see how much he likes THAT. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Indeed. Yes they want full "conversion." That's the difference between an authoritarian and a totalitarian. The former wants you to respect his power. The latter wants you to become like them. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Seems the bishop was quite thorough. I even see they give guidance on lay Catholic commanders. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
AFA was 100% correct and Weinstein, once again was wrong.
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Indoctrination starts in school. Chick has it pegged. Funny thing? The kid knows what's going on. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Did you see the straight flag?
Nice
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.--1 Corinthians 15:20-21
Yes, like it so much it is now a tagline. Wiccan people are like any other group of people. There are everything from scoundrels to saints in their ranks. I started my journey back to Christianity after I nearly died in a fall back in 1979 where I neatly died. I had an out of body experiance, and my adopted daughter has been patiently working on me until I reached the point I had a restoration of faith and did a reconciliation with a catholic priest. My faith only has grown since then. I imagine there are some of you who are too cynical to buy this, but that is OK. My love for and faith in Jesus does not require your belief or acceptance. I mean who wants to see their Command Sergeant Major on the dance floor with his husband dancing cheek to cheek?
#79. To: nolu chan (#78)
Something for troubled couples will continue. It does not have to be effective, but command has to be able to say they took appropriate measures. They have to invent something and deem it appropriate.
#80. To: Liberator (#70)
You really do have the mind of a 10 year old, don't you?
#81. To: Liberator (#71)
This is when a flaming Pagan or Wiccan "chaplain" will step in.
#82. To: redleghunter (#73)
What about those chaplain funded 'marriage retreats' and 'marriage encounters' weekends?
#83. To: nolu chan (#74)
This entails an assumption that there will be such chaplains, and in sufficient quantity.
#84. To: sneakypete (#81)
Please tell us about your vast experience...
#85. To: sneakypete (#80)
(Edited)
You just go ahead and keep ignoring all the people murdered by various religious cults,as well as all the local and major wars that were fought in the name of Gawd if that makes you feel better,if that is what helps you get through the day.
#86. To: Liberator (#84)
Let's just call this post of yours, 'Sneakypete's Mount Everest of Irrelevance, Stupidity and Ignorance'.
#87. To: Liberator (#85)
You don't even know the definition of "atheist."
#88. To: sneakypete (#83)
AFAIK the US military is under no obligation to fulfill any sort of quota for their Chaplain Corps,and from THEIR POV a Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddist, or whatever Chaplain could serve as well as a Wiccian or Pagan Chaplain for general purposes.
#89. To: Liberator, redleghunter (#71)
#90. To: nolu chan (#88)
Counseling troubled same-sex married couples is the specific problem I have cited.
#91. To: CZ82, liberator (#89)
Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...
#92. To: sneakypete (#49)
#93. To: sneakypete (#90)
A Bible or Quran thumping chaplain may not be able to provide such counseling
Of course they can. It's their duty to do so. Their jobs are not about "me",they are about the soldiers,sailors,airmen,or Marines they are sworn to serve.
Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling
By David Gibson
Posted: 09/25/2013 11:15 am EDT
Updated: 09/25/2013 5:01 pm EDT The armed services have traditionally reflected the society they are sworn to defend. However, with the elimination of the draft, the military has moved to the political and cultural right, and so has the military chaplaincy. Today, partially as a result of a determined effort by some evangelical groups, chaplains endorsed by socially conservative denominations are in the majority within the military. Consequently, they exerted a significant and negative influence in the long and laborious journey to repeal DADT.
#94. To: Liberator, ALL (#50)
#95. To: nolu chan (#93)
The chaplain may be unable to counsel how to best maintain a loving gay marriage when his own religious belief prevents him from discussing gay marriage in an approving manner.
#96. To: redleghunter, CZ82, nolu chan, Ferret Mike (#91)
("Ummm I don't think there are pagan/wiccan chaplains in the military, the last one that I heard of got the boot about 8-10 years ago...")
#97. To: Liberator (#96)
#98. To: GarySpFC, redleghunter, CZ82, nolu chan (#94)
As long as a city is encircled with walls all around,” wrote John Chrysostom, “it mocks its besiegers and remains in perfect safety. But once a breach is made in the wall, no larger than a gate, the circuit is no more use to it, though all the rest stands safe.”
#99. To: A K A Stone (#97)
(Edited)
#100. To: redleghunter, Liberator, nolu chan (#91)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/18/AR2007021801396.html
#101. To: Liberator, redleghunter, LFs resident Leftards (#98)
Only THEN will these perverse subversives be happy.
#102. To: sneakypete (#95)
Catholic Military Chaplains Barred From From Performing Gay Weddings, Funerals, Counseling
#103. To: redleghunter (#91)
Renewed Fidelity in Favor of Evangelization
Archbishop for the Military Services
#104. To: redleghunter, ALL (#91)
#105. To: GarySpFC, redleghunter (#104)
#106. To: CZ82, redleghunter, nolu chan (#100)
#107. To: CZ82, redleghunter, LFs resident Leftards (#101)
(Edited)
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!!
#108. To: Liberator, LFs resident Leftards (#107)
Yes, what makes these soul-defective self-loathing snakes "happy" is a shared the misery and death.
#109. To: nolu chan (#102)
This is not a choice made by the individual chaplain. Their religious group asserted it would withdraw its endorsement causing the chaplain to be ineligible for the military chaplain corps.
#110. To: Liberator (#105)
Mikey W has declared war on Christians.
#111. To: CZ82, Liberator, tomder55, GarySpFc (#101)
The only way they will ever be happy (and this might be somewhat of a stretch since I don't think they ever can be happy, assholes never are) is if they defeat you so totally that you eventually agree with their point of view, I.E. become one of them!!!
#112. To: nolu chan (#103)
#113. To: GarySpFC (#104)
#114. To: Liberator, A K A Stone, CZ82 (#107)
#115. To: redleghunter (#114)
#116. To: A K A Stone (#115)
#117. To: A K A Stone (#115)
Did you see the straight flag?
#118. To: Liberator (#96)
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