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AULT&CTIME=2015-06-26-10-02-52 Published: Jun 26, 2015 Author: AP staff Post Date: 2015-06-26 10:23:13 by redleghunter Keywords: None Views: 8096 Comments: 101 WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court declared Friday that same-sex couples have a right to marry anywhere in the United States. Gay and lesbian couples already could marry in 36 states and the District of Columbia. The court's 5-4 ruling means the remaining 14 states, in the South and Midwest, will have to stop enforcing their bans on same-sex marriage. Click for Full Text! Poster Comment: No surprises. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-41) not displayed.       .       .       . #42. To: nolu chan (#39) They sure did try hard to use "couples" as often as possible...Of course to rule out using this decision to usher in law suits for polygamy. But that is coming soon to a Mormon theatre near some desert state with a lot of Mormons:) Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   13:33:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Hondo68 (#40) What -- no Bush?? ;-) LOL haven't you been paying attention to Hondo's posts:)? Bush and Clinton are the same. Apologies...meant to ping you. I want to make sure you get the credit. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   13:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: Vicomte13 (#36) Libertator: the buck stops with the Captain of the Ship. If a ship runs aground in the night because the Officer of the Deck read the charts wrong, it's the junior officer's fault, of course, but it's also the Captain's fault for not training the JO, for letting him have the watch when he wasn't prepared. The Captain of the ship cannot escape liability for what his lieutenants do. Vic, there's been a mutiny within the GOP leadership, yet you've failed to acknowledge it OR notice it. The mutiny began during Reagan's last couple of years as his globalist officers began betraying the Party platform, principles and American sovereignty. There are STILL good Republican-Conservatives battling the subversive tidal wave; If NOT for them, we'd already be drowned in a sea of Fascist-Leftism. Give THEM credit for not bailing out on the ship! Do you EVER see Democrat Supreme Court justices are major politicians break ranks on any important issue, ever. EVER? Do they EVER suddenly betray the principles of their party? Ever? Name me an instance where a Democrat Supreme Court justices has suddenly surprised everybody by turning on his or her party? Name me a time, in a vote on anything crucial, where a Democrat ever defaulted? I agree with your observation that the Dem Party is a monolithic subversive fighting force (aided and abetted by a monolithic attack-dog liberal-Left media and academe), but you're still not GETTING THIS. The point is: The Dems are a cohesive, subversive occupying Army; The GOP is divided and conquered, ruled by it's mutinous Vichy Republicans. This has been the case since Reagan surrendered his admin to the treasonous GH Bush and his cabal of "compassionate conservatives," aka FAKE conservatives. ERGO, you have 100% of the Dems + 50% of the GOP. That imbalance in power (and Vichy "leadership" at the helm of the GOP) can NOT be overcome at this point in time -- if ever. You expect people to not hold the REPUBLICAN PARTY accountable for what the leading, powerful Republicans actually DO over and over. You say that we are wrong for maligning the Republican Party for what the Captains of the Ship DO, again and again. Your position is nuts. It's simply nuts. You have affiliated yourself with the Republican Party and given it too much of your heart and soul. Again, I am emphasizing the root cause of GOP fecklessness, betrayal, and reptilian surrender of moral/ethical principles and sovereignty: A LEADERSHIP THAT HAS BEEN HIJACKED SINCE the last 1980s by pro-globalist, One World Order elites. It's that simple. You still have not provided a political alternative that is a Game-Changer. Moreover, I have NOT give my "heart and soul" to the GOP; Not close. I merely recognize that any kernels and sparks that re-ignite the Founders' spirit of justice and intent in *any* numbers can ONLY be found within the corrupt body of the GOP. Do you think we'll find it in the corpse of the Dem Party? Because NO Third Party has emerged to fill the void, what is YOUR solution? B*tching and moaning about the GOP's known whores and tools isn't helping us win any political battles. Most of us have vilified the Republican Party as phonies since Dubya and a GOP-dominated Congress did NOTHING to promote conservative policies. You cannot change the Republican ship, but you can stop sailing on it. You choose not to, pretending that its yours. Fine. Let EVERY Dem win EVERY election. Remove EVERY sentry from the castle wall. Bend over. Great strategy. (Oh wait -- you HAVE no political strategy, do you?) This is a spiritual war, Vic. The God -fearing and their values are under siege. Your boogieman, your devil, your scapegoat is not the Republican Party; It's those who betray the Lord. They who rule the roost as part of the GOP elite are subversive puppets, doing the bidding of special interests and international elites. "Republican" is just a worn costume. Those Catholics who've voted over the years to keep supporting 0-Care, Gay "Marriage," Abortion, Affirmative Action, Special "Rights," etc., have not only betrayed this Republic, but worse -- they've betrayed God. Half of the current six Catholics are a disgrace and betray not only America, but the Lord. It's quite easy to find fleas amongst us, isn't it? Yelling at ME for telling you the truth: Republicans are scum bunks, is willful blindness. Open your eyes, and see, and walk out of there. Reclaim your manhood and your pride. Stop lying down with dogs. Stop defending them. I defend only those Republican who defend the USCON and the tenets and intent of the Founders. Were it not for them, ALL guns would have already been seized -- as well as your home, the rest of your "rights" -- as well as your property. That pesky 1A? Whatever Republicans are left to do battle -- it is THEY who will retain whatever right you have to speak your mind at a forum like this. NOT Democrats. The Captain of the Ship is responsible. The Republican Ship has SHOWN you its colors again and again. You're not going to mutiny and take over. Get off that ship. Get off this ship and then what? DROWN?? Or swim to *your* island? Who will protect and speak for your "rights"? Democrats? Bernie Sanders? Some yet unknown Third Party savior? We have ONE chance to turn back the enemy. That is within a core of Never-Say-Die conservative GOP stalwarts who never give up. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   13:39:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: hondo68, Vicomte13 (#38) (Edited) The GOP faithful are more dishonest, that's the only difference. In a vote for supporting the 2A, who ya gonna call? 1) Democrats. 2) Republicans If it's Dems, then you're NOT posting right now; Instead you're writing with a stick in the mud by the barbed wire fencing. IN A FEMA CAMP. Conservatives have only ONE party to join -- that is the GOP (unfortunately.) They haven't been able to replace its reptilian, treasonous leadership since Reagan left. Boehner and McConnell are ostensible Dems. Supported by half the Republican Party. In the meantime, why don't you two chaps establish a viable third party? I'll support you. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   13:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: redleghunter (#43) (What -- no Bush?? ;-) LOL haven't you been paying attention to Hondo's posts:)? Bush and Clinton are the same.) Apologies...meant to ping you. I want to make sure you get the credit. *Chuckling*...(tho it hurts.) Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   13:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Liberator (#46) You on the mend? How you doing? Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   14:05:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Vicomte13 (#26) You should be agreeing with me and we should be walking together. It. Will. Never. Happen. Well, your REPUBLICAN officials are the ones who cast all of the final decisions. It takes a certain perversity to make such a statement. On same-sex marriage bans, Republicans took the lead virtually everywhere in the country, including Congress. It was the Dems (and Anthony Kennedy) who changed that. Typically, you reserve all your scorn only for the GOP. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-26   14:26:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: redleghunter (#41) Simple and practical. A river close so they could baptize! A rather routine practice in the early churches. They didn't have a temple or established meeting place which helped them avoid the incitement of pagans to magistrates to persecute them. And "believe and be baptised" was taken very seriously. If they actually believed, there could be no excuse for not being baptized. A quick test to weed out a lot of easy-believerism, particularly among the "god-fearer" faction that had grown up around many Jewish synagogues of the era. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-26   14:30:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: redleghunter (#47) Thanks for asking, bro. Mending as fast as the good Lord can sew :-) Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   14:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#48) On same-sex marriage bans, Republicans took the lead virtually everywhere in the country, including Congress. It was the Dems (and Anthony Kennedy) who changed that. Typically, you reserve all your scorn only for the GOP. Concur here with TC in both cases. ONLY conservative Pubbies have been the thorn in the side of the homofascist crusade and roadblock to insanity. Pubbies by and large (even RINOs) have been THE roadblock to scuttling the 2A. Instead of 6 Catholics, imagine were there 6 Protestants on this SCOTUS? Of all the CTs out there, THIS one where not a single Protestant exists among 9 SC justices is conspicuously obvious. I think it's safe to assume NONE of these unconstitutional decisions gutting family values and the Founders' intent, life and liberty would be the life-changers they've become. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   15:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: redleghunter (#42) (Edited) They sure did try hard to use "couples" as often as possible...Of course to rule out using this decision to usher in law suits for polygamy. It is difficult to see why the federal definition of marriage would not extend to plural marriage. The right of same-sex marriage arises from no historical precedent. Plural marriage has biblical precedent and multinational precedent, including U.S. precedent. Any legal basis for the imposition of a federal definition of marriage to include same-sex marriage would seem to support a claim for plural marriage. Why would denial of same-sex marriage be unconstitutional discrimination, but denial of plural marriage not be unconstitutional discrimination? Does a mixed sex trio not have the same concerns about hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, and the right to express their love for one another? One may readily contrast Kennedy with Kennedy. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-307_6j37.pdf United States v Windsor, US Sup Ct 12-307 (26 Jun 2013) Kennedy for the Court Precisely two years ago, in Windsor, Justice Kennedy, writing for the majority, stated at page 16-17 of the slip opinion: In order to assess the validity of that intervention it is necessary to discuss the extent of the state power and authority over marriage as a matter of history and tradition. State laws defining and regulating marriage, of course, must respect the constitutional rights of persons, see, e.g., Loving v. Virginia, 388 U. S. 1 (1967); but, subject to those guarantees, “regulation of domestic relations” is “an area that has long been regarded as a virtually exclu­sive province of the States.” Sosna v. Iowa, 419 U. S. 393, 404 (1975). nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-26   15:35:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: nolu chan, ALL (#39) KENNEDY, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which GINSBURG, BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. Damn the 14th Amendment to Hell. That's where it was written. Adding insult to injury wasn't quite enough. Kennedy was "joined" by a bunch of angry lebso leftists and anarchists. Here this little weasel was compelled to write the majority opinion? IMO, Kennedy and Roberts flipped a coin for the "honor" of joining GINSBURG, BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN. (5) There may be an initial inclination to await further legislation, litigation, and debate, but referenda, legislative debates, and grassroots campaigns; studies and other writings; and extensive litigation in state and federal courts have led to an enhanced understanding of the issue. HUH?? What a crock authored by Kennedy. An "enhanced understanding of the issue" is how he characterizes the grave misjudgment of the Constitution and sanction of perversion? Despite We-The-People having spoken through several referenda as well as through the legislative level...our consensus and representation have been wiped out out just the same. By black robed tyrants and a fascist, over-officious fedgub "Grassroots campaigns" participants have been targeted for political-partisan (Dem) assassination, ostracizing, and intimidation. The media and academe have also been guilty in joining the lynchings. Kennedy alludes to "Studies and writings" -- really?? Since when? He and his four other social-satanic anarchists have already spit on and discounted historical cultural precedence, the Bible, will of We The People, and 5,000 years of tradition. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   15:43:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: nolu chan, redleghunter (#52) Any legal basis for the imposition of a federal definition of marriage to include same-sex marriage would seem to support a claim for plural marriage. Why would denial of same-sex marriage be unconstitutional discrimination, but denial of plural marriage not be unconstitutional discrimination? This case opens the door for ANY "right" for ANY "marriage" -- based on the 14A. Welcome "plural" marriages, reduced age-consent marriages, inter-species marriages, and whatever other perverse arrangement can be made. Does a mixed sex trio not have the same concerns about hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, and the right to express their love for one another? Now impossible not to extend the same "right" for the entire triad. This SCOTUS decision has delivered the final the death knell for ALL States' Rights. Today the haters of America, Western Civ, and God are celebrating like a bunch of Nero's in Sodom. I had the one solo liberal-left friend of mine left (from childhood) gleefully text me: "TWO days 2 wins! How bout dat SCOTUS!!!" Liberator  posted on  2015-06-26   15:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: nolu chan (#52) In order to assess the validity of that intervention it is necessary to discuss the extent of the state power and authority over marriage as a matter of history and tradition. State laws defining and regulating marriage, of course, must respect the constitutional rights of persons, see, e.g., Loving v. Virginia, 388 U. S. 1 (1967); but, subject to those guarantees, “regulation of domestic relations” is “an area that has long been regarded as a virtually exclu­sive province of the States.” Sosna v. Iowa, 419 U. S. 393, 404 (1975). Gotta love the inconsistencies. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   16:10:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: redleghunter (#24) I made a table for better readability. > Justice Religion President Year John ROBERTS, CJ Roman Catholic George W. Bush 2005 Antonin SCALIA, J. Roman Catholic Ronald Reagan 1986 Anthony KENNEDY, J. Roman Catholic Ronald Reagan 1988 Clarence THOMAS, J. Roman Catholic George H.W. Bush 1991 Ruth Bader GINSBURG, J. Jewish Bill Clinton 1993 Stephen BREYER, J. Jewish Bill Clinton 1994 Samuel ALITO, J. Roman Catholic George W. Bush 2006 Sonia SOTOMAYOR, J. Roman Catholic Barack Obama 2009 Elena KAGAN, J. Jewish Barack Obama 2010 > nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-26   16:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: redleghunter, *2016 The Likely Suspects* (#43) Bush and Clinton are the same. Except Hillary's more macho, and likes girls. Jeb! will drop out, after he screws up the early primaries real good. Rubio's the one! To lose to Hillary. P. Bush 2024? Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-26   17:26:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: redleghunter (#0) DISSENTING OPINION OF JOHN ROBERTS (EXCERPTS) Roberts dissent at 3, Understand well what this dissent is about: It is not about whether, in my judgment, the institution of mar­riage should be changed to include same-sex couples. It is instead about whether, in our democratic republic, that decision should rest with the people acting through theirelected representatives, or with five lawyers who happen to hold commissions authorizing them to resolve legal disputes according to law. The Constitution leaves no doubt about the answer. Roberts dissent at 4, Petitioners and their amici base their arguments on the “right to marry” and the imperative of “marriage equality.” There is no serious dispute that, under our precedents, the Constitution protects a right to marry and requires States to apply their marriage laws equally. The real question in these cases is what constitutes “marriage,” or—moreprecisely—who decides what constitutes “marriage”? The majority largely ignores these questions, relegating ages of human experience with marriage to a paragraph or two. Roberts dissent at 9-10: Petitioners first contend that the marriage laws of their States violate the Due Process Clause. The Solicitor Gen­eral of the United States, appearing in support of petition­ers, expressly disowned that position before this Court. See Tr. of Oral Arg. on Question 1, at 38–39. The majority nevertheless resolves these cases for petitioners based almost entirely on the Due Process Clause. The majority purports to identify four “principles and traditions” in this Court’s due process precedents that support a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry. Ante, at 12. In reality, however, the majority’s ap­proach has no basis in principle or tradition, except for the unprincipled tradition of judicial policymaking that char­acterized discredited decisions such as Lochner v. New York, 198 U. S. 45. Stripped of its shiny rhetorical gloss, the majority’s argument is that the Due Process Clause gives same-sex couples a fundamental right to marry because it will be good for them and for society. If I were a legislator, I would certainly consider that view as a matter of social policy. But as a judge, I find the majority’s posi­tion indefensible as a matter of constitutional law. Roberts dissent at 10: Petitioners’ “fundamental right” claim falls into themost sensitive category of constitutional adjudication. Petitioners do not contend that their States’ marriage laws violate an enumerated constitutional right, such as the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment. There is, after all, no “Companionship and Understand­ing” or “Nobility and Dignity” Clause in the Constitution. See ante, at 3, 14. They argue instead that the laws vio­late a right implied by the Fourteenth Amendment’srequirement that “liberty” may not be deprived without “due process of law.” Roberts dissent at 15: The majority’s driving themes are that marriage isdesirable and petitioners desire it. The opinion describes the “transcendent importance” of marriage and repeatedly insists that petitioners do not seek to “demean,” “devalue,” “denigrate,” or “disrespect” the institution. Ante, at 3, 4, 6, 28. Nobody disputes those points. Indeed, the compelling personal accounts of petitioners and others like them are likely a primary reason why many Americans have changed their minds about whether same-sex couples should be allowed to marry. As a matter of constitutional law, however, the sincerity of petitioners’ wishes is not relevant. Roberts dissent at 16: In short, the “right to marry” cases stand for the im­portant but limited proposition that particular restrictionson access to marriage as traditionally defined violate due process. These precedents say nothing at all about a right to make a State change its definition of marriage, which is the right petitioners actually seek here. Roberts dissent at 18: In sum, the privacy cases provide no support for the majority’s position, because petitioners do not seek privacy. Quite the opposite, they seek public recognition of their relationships, along with corresponding government benefits. Our cases have consistently refused to allow litigants to convert the shield provided by constitutional liberties into a sword to demand positive entitlements from the State. See DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dept. of Social Servs., 489 U. S. 189, 196 (1989); San Antonio Independent School Dist. v. Rodriguez, 411 U. S. 1, 35–37 (1973); post, at 9–13 (THOMAS, J., dissenting). Thus, although the right to privacy recognized by our precedents certainly plays a role in protecting the intimate conduct of same-sex couples, it provides no affirmative right to rede­fine marriage and no basis for striking down the laws at issue here. Roberts dissent at 19: Perhaps recognizing how little support it can derivefrom precedent, the majority goes out of its way to jettison the “careful” approach to implied fundamental rights taken by this Court in Glucksberg. Ante, at 18 (quoting 521 U. S., at 721). It is revealing that the majority’s posi­tion requires it to effectively overrule Glucksberg, the leading modern case setting the bounds of substantive due process. At least this part of the majority opinion has the virtue of candor. Nobody could rightly accuse the majorityof taking a careful approach. Roberts dissent at 19-20: The truth is that today’s decision rests on nothing more than the majority’sown conviction that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry because they want to, and that “it would disparage their choices and diminish their personhood to deny themthis right.” Ante, at 19. Whatever force that belief may have as a matter of moral philosophy, it has no more basis in the Constitution than did the naked policy preferences adopted in Lochner. See 198 U. S., at 61 (“We do not believe in the soundness of the views which uphold thislaw,” which “is an illegal interference with the rights ofindividuals . . . to make contracts regarding labor upon such terms as they may think best”). Roberts dissent at 20-21: One immediate question invited by the majority’s posi­tion is whether States may retain the definition of mar­riage as a union of two people. Cf. Brown v. Buhman, 947 F. Supp. 2d 1170 (Utah 2013), appeal pending, No. 14­4117 (CA10). Although the majority randomly inserts the adjective “two” in various places, it offers no reason at all why the two-person element of the core definition of mar­riage may be preserved while the man-woman element may not. Indeed, from the standpoint of history and tradi­tion, a leap from opposite-sex marriage to same-sex mar­riage is much greater than one from a two-person union to plural unions, which have deep roots in some cultures around the world. If the majority is willing to take the big leap, it is hard to see how it can say no to the shorter one. It is striking how much of the majority’s reasoning would apply with equal force to the claim of a fundamental right to plural marriage. If “[t]here is dignity in the bond between two men or two women who seek to marry and in their autonomy to make such profound choices,” ante, at 13, why would there be any less dignity in the bond be­tween three people who, in exercising their autonomy, seek to make the profound choice to marry? If a same-sex couple has the constitutional right to marry because their children would otherwise “suffer the stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser,” ante, at 15, why wouldn’t the same reasoning apply to a family of three or more persons raising children? If not having the opportunity to marry “serves to disrespect and subordinate” gay and lesbian couples, why wouldn’t the same “imposition of this disability,” ante, at 22, serve to disrespect and subor­dinate people who find fulfillment in polyamorous rela­tionships? See Bennett, Polyamory: The Next Sexual Revolution? Newsweek, July 28, 2009 (estimating 500,000 polyamorous families in the United States); Li, Married Lesbian “Throuple” Expecting First Child, N. Y. Post, Apr. 23, 2014; Otter, Three May Not Be a Crowd: The Case for a Constitutional Right to Plural Marriage, 64 Emory L. J.1977 (2015). I do not mean to equate marriage between same-sex couples with plural marriages in all respects. There may well be relevant differences that compel different legal analysis. But if there are, petitioners have not pointed to any. When asked about a plural marital union at oral argument, petitioners asserted that a State “doesn’t have such an institution.” Tr. of Oral Arg. on Question 2, p. 6. But that is exactly the point: the States at issue here do not have an institution of same-sex marriage, either. Roberts dissent at 22: The majority’s understanding of due process lays out a tantalizing vision of the future for Members of this Court: If an unvarying social institution enduring over all of recorded history cannot inhibit judicial policymaking, what can? But this approach is dangerous for the rule of law. The purpose of insisting that implied fundamental rights have roots in the history and tradition of our people is to ensure that when unelected judges strike down dem­ocratically enacted laws, they do so based on something more than their own beliefs. The Court today not only overlooks our country’s entire history and tradition but actively repudiates it, preferring to live only in the heady days of the here and now. Roberts dissent at 25: Nowhere is the majority’s extravagant conception of judicial supremacy more evident than in its description—and dismissal—of the public debate regarding same-sex marriage. Yes, the majority concedes, on one side are thousands of years of human history in every society known to have populated the planet. But on the other side, there has been “extensive litigation,” “many thought­ful District Court decisions,” “countless studies, papers, books, and other popular and scholarly writings,” and “more than 100” amicus briefs in these cases alone. Ante, at 9, 10, 23. What would be the point of allowing the democratic process to go on? It is high time for the Court to decide the meaning of marriage, based on five lawyers’ “better informed understanding” of “a liberty that remains urgent in our own era.” Ante, at 19. The answer is surely there in one of those amicus briefs or studies. Roberts dissent at 25-26: Those who founded our country would not recognize the majority’s conception of the judicial role. They after all risked their lives and fortunes for the precious right to govern themselves. They would never have imagined yielding that right on a question of social policy to unac­countable and unelected judges. And they certainly would not have been satisfied by a system empowering judges to override policy judgments so long as they do so after “a quite extensive discussion.” Ante, at 8. In our democracy,debate about the content of the law is not an exhaustion requirement to be checked off before courts can impose their will. “Surely the Constitution does not put either thelegislative branch or the executive branch in the positionof a television quiz show contestant so that when a given period of time has elapsed and a problem remains unre­solved by them, the federal judiciary may press a buzzer and take its turn at fashioning a solution.” Rehnquist, The Notion of a Living Constitution, 54 Texas L. Rev. 693,700 (1976). As a plurality of this Court explained just lastyear, “It is demeaning to the democratic process to pre­sume that voters are not capable of deciding an issue of this sensitivity on decent and rational grounds.” Roberts dissent at 26-28: When decisions are reached through democratic means, some people will inevitably be disappointed with the re­sults. But those whose views do not prevail at least know that they have had their say, and accordingly are—in the tradition of our political culture—reconciled to the result of a fair and honest debate. In addition, they can gear up to raise the issue later, hoping to persuade enough on the winning side to think again. “That is exactly how oursystem of government is supposed to work.” Post, at 2–3 (SCALIA, J., dissenting). But today the Court puts a stop to all that. By deciding this question under the Constitution, the Court removes it from the realm of democratic decision. There will be consequences to shutting down the political process on an issue of such profound public significance. Closing debate tends to close minds. People denied a voice are less likely to accept the ruling of a court on an issue that does not seem to be the sort of thing courts usually decide. As a thoughtful commentator observed about another issue, “The political process was moving . . . , not swiftly enough for advocates of quick, complete change, but majoritarian institutions were listening and acting. Heavy-handed judicial intervention was difficult to justify and appears to have provoked, not resolved, conflict.” Ginsburg, Some Thoughts on Autonomy and Equality in Relation to Roe v. Wade, 63 N. C. L. Rev. 375, 385–386 (1985) (footnote omitted). Indeed, however heartened the proponents of same-sex marriage might be on this day, it is worth ac­knowledging what they have lost, and lost forever: the opportunity to win the true acceptance that comes from persuading their fellow citizens of the justice of their cause. And they lose this just when the winds of change were freshening at their backs. Federal courts are blunt instruments when it comes to creating rights. They have constitutional power only to resolve concrete cases or controversies; they do not have the flexibility of legislatures to address concerns of parties not before the court or to anticipate problems that may arise from the exercise of a new right. Today’s decision, for example, creates serious questions about religious liberty. Many good and decent people oppose same-sex marriage as a tenet of faith, and their freedom to exercise religion is—unlike the right imagined by the majority—actually spelled out in the Constitution. Amdt. 1. Respect for sincere religious conviction has led voters and legislators in every State that has adopted same-sex marriage democratically to include accommodations for religious practice. The majority’s decision imposing same-sex marriage cannot, of course, create any such accommo­dations. The majority graciously suggests that religious believers may continue to “advocate” and “teach” their views of marriage. Ante, at 27. The First Amendment guarantees, however, the freedom to “exercise” religion. Ominously, that is not a word the majority uses. Roberts dissent concluding at 26-28: If you are among the many Americans—of whatever sexual orientation—who favor expanding same-sex mar­riage, by all means celebrate today’s decision. Celebrate the achievement of a desired goal. Celebrate the oppor­tunity for a new expression of commitment to a partner. Celebrate the availability of new benefits. But do not celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it. I respectfully dissent. nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-26   18:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: nolu chan (#56) Thanks show off:) Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   21:26:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: nolu chan (#58) The common denominator about the USSC decision is simple to understand: the government owns the institution of marriage and not religious institutions or considerations. The result allows anyone to marry just about anyone along as they are of legal age and pass a blood test which is simple to perform at the state level. The Institution of Marriage is not owned by religious doctrine which (for the most part) specifies that marriage is between a man and a woman in America within the reign of holiness and vowels, particularly within the Christian Church. The outcome shall be to change the definition of religious marriage or marriage within a church to something like --> fucking for God. buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-26   21:50:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: nolu chan (#58) Roberts dissent at 19-20: The truth is that today’s decision rests on nothing more than the majority’sown conviction that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry because they want to, and that “it would disparage their choices and diminish their personhood to deny themthis right.” Ante, at 19. Whatever force that belief may have as a matter of moral philosophy, it has no more basis in the Constitution than did the naked policy preferences adopted in Lochner. See 198 U. S., at 61 (“We do not believe in the soundness of the views which uphold thislaw,” which “is an illegal interference with the rights ofindividuals . . . to make contracts regarding labor upon such terms as they may think best”). Where was his clear reasoning earlier in the week. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2) redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-26   22:16:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: redleghunter, All (#24) I cannot argue your approach as GOP presidents DID appoint the left leaning justices. The other question is how long can Catholic bishops keep giving communion to the 6 justices who are Roman Catholic? Ask the Pope. Then again, who is he to judge? Did Pope Francis really tell a divorced woman to take Communion? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-06-26   22:50:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: buckeroo (#60) The common denominator about the USSC decision is simple to understand: the government owns the institution of marriage and not religious institutions or considerations. The result allows anyone to marry just about anyone along as they are of legal age and pass a blood test which is simple to perform at the state level. There has never been a federal marriage license. It has always been a state affair and the claim of federal constitutional authority to dictate a federal definition of marriage is on very shaky grounds. I think they did away with blood tests. nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-27   2:45:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: nolu chan (#39) "Held: The Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex" The 14th amendment limits marriage to "two people"? Where? Seems to me the equal protection clause would allow three people to marry. Or any number. Incestual marriages would be allowed under equal protection, along with child marriges. This decision is going to turn into another Roe v Wade -- never to be settled -- because it should have been decided by the people, not the court. misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-27   9:07:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: nolu chan (#63) (Edited) The court is saying that a chosen sexual lifestyle entitles an individual to the 14th amendment right of Equal Protection, and every state must comply. I see a major problem developing. Society (the people) can no longer set moral standards. misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-27   9:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: misterwhite (#65) I see a major problem developing. Society (the people) can no longer set moral standards. Developing? LOL.. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   9:15:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#44) "compassionate conservatives," aka FAKE conservatives. Describes most of the Pubbie party. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   9:25:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: redleghunter, Liberator (#9) Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide This turned out pretty much like I envisioned another mess to be cleaned up when "common sense" people are put in charge again. The problem with that is it probably won't happen during my lifetime. History is a repeating cycle good rules for awhile then sooner or later evil takes over again, wash, rinse, repeat. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   9:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: redleghunter, Liberator (#13) I give it three months, if that, before the gay lobby finds ways to sue churches who refuse to 'marry' gays. The law suits are coming no matter what people say is 'impossible' because of the 1st Amendment. This court does not care for the letter of the law as we saw this week with Obolocare. They will find a way to make the 14th amendment interpret the 1st. They will do the same with the 2nd amendment too. The 10th amendment was just scrapped with this decision and the obolocare decision. I don't think it will take that long, $5 says there are some out there that have already been filed, even though they had no standing then they do now. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   9:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: CZ82, redleghunter (#68) ....when "common sense" people are put in charge again. The problem with that is it probably won't happen during my lifetime. My initial thought exactly. It's over. But not without a brawl. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   11:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: CZ82, Vicomte13 (#67) "compassionate conservatives," aka FAKE conservatives. Describes most of the Pubbie party. A good half I'd say. The biggest problem are the Puppetmeisters and so-called "leadership," which are part One-Worlder globalist, part closet Dem, and part statist-fascist. They bully, threaten, and coerce the weak members and control the agenda and direction of the GOP (straight into the handbasket into Hell.) Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   11:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: Liberator (#70) You mean one of those bar stool swinging brawls? :) “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   11:35:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: Liberator (#70) It's over. But not without a brawl. I was just going to a Christian church to pray for America ... but your post caught my eye. What are Americans going to do? buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-27   11:45:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: CZ82 (#72) You mean one of those bar stool swinging brawls? :) In my wildest dreams ;-) Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   11:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #75. To: buckeroo, CZ82, redleghunter (#73) (Edited) I was just going to a Christian church to pray for America ... Amen, BUCK!! (But you mean after your ring-around-the-rosie 'round the Ol' Oak Tree?) What are Americans going to do? 1/3 will celebrate the demise of America, 1/3 will passively await for orders to receive the Mark of the Beast and FEMA Camp number, and the other 1/3 will pray before tossing around barstools and breaking bottles. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   11:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: Liberator (#71) A good half I'd say. I have no doubt that if the "good half' stood tall and said no to "the faux conservative agenda" their voting constituency would reward them. It would also bring more of what the "faux conservatives" are doing out into the light for other voters to peruse, and hopefully they would take it out on them at the ballot box. I've never believed in the 3rd party rhetoric!! “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   12:01:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: Liberator (#74) Last time I was in one of those was when I was 17 and was at the Garage Nightclub in New Carlisle, Ohio. Place has long since closed but that was one ass wild night. It all started because of some sore ass losers at the pool tables didn't want to pay up their side bets after the pool tournament was over with. Needless to say that was the last time we ever got invited to attend one of their tournaments. Even though we didn't start the brawl we still walked out with all the money!! :) “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   12:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #78. To: CZ82 (#76) (Edited) I have no doubt that if the "good half' stood tall and said no to "the faux conservative agenda" their voting constituency would reward them. It would also bring more of what the "faux conservatives" are doing out into the light for other voters to peruse, and hopefully they would take it out on them at the ballot box. I've never believed in the 3rd party rhetoric!! The ballot box -- a huge part of our problem has been the cliched "Voting for the Lesser of Two Evils." This has been the case since Reagan left. THESE are the Pubbies who've taken over the Party, ruined the brand, the party, and the core platform. Given all that, the GOP still does control most of the state house legislatures and governorships. People must still believe in their core principles (unfortunately long since abandoned by most reps.) Doesn't seem to translate into more conservative policies and agenda though, does it? Unlike the Dems (who seem to maintain a unified focus and monolithic goal) the GOP spans too much of the political spectrum and is too diluted to focus on a common goal. It itself has been divided & conquers as a party. THIS is our primary problem. Ergo, our wishes for true representation (through no fault of our own) has been short-circuited. Our agenda, a conservative agenda has fallen in the hands of a subversive, corrupt faux Republican leadership. They are painfully and obviously puppets controlled by external anti-America overlords.... UNTIL these puppetmeister-overlords are exposed, I can't see the GOP turning things around on its own soon -- do you? And no, we don't have enough time or energy to establish a viable Third Party. If this were a game of chess, we've been Check-Mated. Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   12:34:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #79. To: CZ82 (#77) Last time I was in one of those was when I was 17 and was at the Garage Nightclub in New Carlisle, Ohio. Place has long since closed but that was one ass wild night.... Lol...HEY! Who's ID did you use, kid??!? Musta been a Friday night, full moon, everybody was just paid. It all started because of some sore ass losers at the pool tables didn't want to pay up their side bets after the pool tournament was over with. Needless to say that was the last time we ever got invited to attend one of their tournaments. Even though we didn't start the brawl we still walked out with all the money!! :) NOT gonna pay after losing? Doesn't usually end well. Good times ;-) Aaaah -- the wild, the innocent, and the E Street shuffle (Springsteen album reference.) Cops wind up arriving? Did you go back the next week? Liberator  posted on  2015-06-27   12:41:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #80. To: Liberator (#75) (But you mean after your ring-around-the-rosie 'round the Ol' Oak Tree?) yeah ... somethin' like that. buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-27   18:33:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #81. To: Liberator (#79) Lol...HEY! Who's ID did you use, kid??!? Musta been a Friday night, full moon, everybody was just paid. Cops wind up arriving? Did you go back the next week? I was in there with my Dad he used to own his own bar and all of the bar/club owners seemed to know each other back then. So as long as I only drank water/pop it was alright, I went in there many times over the years. Also a lot of the bars sponsored a pool tournament periodically to give the guys something to do during the winter months and also fodder for bragging rights as the best pool shot. Needless to say after that night it got curtailed quite a bit cause it started to attract an out of town rougher than normal crowd. (Always some asshole gotta spoil the fun). :( Heck the places I go to now allow kids in to eat and play video games all the time, no big deal. The one I go to the most has a police station about 100yds down the street, so needless to say it's a safe place for families. And the cops leave you alone no hiding on the outskirts of town waiting to catch you DUI. They share a kitchen with a carry out pizza place so the food is really good, may not be DDD quality food (Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives) but good nevertheless. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-27   19:04:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #82. To: Liberator (#78) I can't see the GOP turning things around on its own soon -- do you? Not voluntarily. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-06-28   9:37:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (83 - 101) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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