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Title: The Confederate Flag Is Not A Symbol Of Hatred–It Is An OBJECT Of Hatred
Source:
VDare
URL Source: http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-c ... tred-it-is-an-object-of-hatred
Published: Jun 26, 2015
Author: Pat Buchanan
Post Date: 2015-06-26 02:14:37 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 11502
Comments: 55
“I will never be able to hold her again, but I forgive you.” So said Nadine Collier, who lost her mother in the massacre at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, offering forgiveness to Dylann Roof, who confessed to the atrocity that took the lives of nine churchgoers at that Wednesday night prayer service and Bible study. If there is a better recent example of what it means to be a Christian, I am unaware of it. Collier and the families of those slain showed a faithfulness to Christ’s gospel of love and forgiveness that many are taught but few are strong enough to follow, especially at times like this. Their Christian witness testifies to a forgotten truth: If slavery was the worst thing that happened to black folks brought from Africa to America, Christianity was the best. Charleston, too, gave us an example of how a city should behave when faced with horror. Contrast the conduct of those good Southern people who stood outside that church in solidarity with the aggrieved, with the Ferguson mobs that looted and burned and the New York mobs that chanted for the killing of cops when the Eric Garner grand jury declined to indict. Yet, predictably, the cultural Marxists, following Rahm Emanuel’s dictum that you never let a crisis go to waste, descended like locusts. As Roof had filmed himself flaunting a Confederate battle flag, the cry went out to tear that flag down from the war memorial in Columbia, South Carolina, and remove its vile presence everywhere in America. Sally Jenkins of The Washington Post appeared front and center on its op-ed page with this call to healing: “The Confederate battle flag is an American swastika, the relic of traitors and totalitarians, symbol of a brutal regime, not a republic. The Confederacy was treason in defense of a still deeper crime against humanity: slavery.” But if Jenkins’ hate-filled screed is right, if the Confederacy was Nazi Germany on American soil, then not only the battle flag must go. The Confederate War Memorial on the capitol grounds honors the scores of thousands of South Carolinians who died in the lost cause. And if that was a cause of traitors and totalitarians and about nothing but slavery, ought not that memorial be dynamited? Even as ISIS is desecrating tombs in Palmyra, Syria, the cultural purge of the South has begun. Rep. Steve Cohen wants the name of legendary cavalryman Nathan Bedford Forrest removed from Forrest Park in Memphis and his bust gone from the capitol; Sen. Mitch McConnell wants the statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis removed from the Kentucky capitol. Governors are rushing to remove replicas of the battle flag from license plates, with Virginia’s Terry McAuliffe the most vocal. Will McAuliffe also demand that the statues of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson be removed from Monument Avenue in Richmond? “Take Down a Symbol of Hatred,” rails The New York Times. But the battle flag is not so much a symbol of hatred as it is an object of hatred, a target of hatred. It evokes a hatred of the visceral sort that we see manifest in Jenkins’ equating of the South of Washington, Jefferson, John Calhoun, Andrew Jackson and Lee with Hitler’s Third Reich. What the flag symbolizes for the millions who revere, cherish or love it, however, is the heroism of those who fought and died under it. That flag flew over battlefields, not over slave quarters. Hence, who are the real haters here? Can the Times really believe that all those coffee cups and baseball caps and T-shirts and sweaters and flag decals on car and truck bumpers are declarations that the owners hate black people? Does the Times believe Southern folks fly the battle flag in their yards because they want slavery back? The Times’ editorialists cannot be such fools. Vilification of that battle flag and the Confederacy is part of the cultural revolution in America that flowered half a century ago. Among its goals was the demoralization of the American people by demonizing their past and poisoning their belief in their own history. The world is turned upside down. The new dogma of the cultural Marxists: Columbus was a genocidal racist. Three of our Founding Fathers—Washington, Jefferson, Madison—were slaveowners. Andrew Jackson was an ethnic cleanser of Indians. The great Confederate generals—Lee, Jackson, Forrest—fought to preserve an evil institution. You have nothing to be proud of and much to be ashamed of if your ancestors fought for the South. And, oh yes, your battle flag is the moral equivalent of a Nazi swastika. And how is the Republican Party standing up to this cultural lynch mob? Retreating and running as fast as possible. If we are to preserve our republic, future generations are going to need what that battle flag truly stands for: pride in our history and defiance in the face of the arrogance of power.
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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0)
If you want to see flag symbols of hatred flown in America today,you only have to look at the Mexican and LaRaza flags,and the African and Black Power flags. Yet nobody in the media has the stones to even whisper about either. The silence of this hypocrisy is deafening. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well stated!
Nathan Bedford Forrest also was a mainstay of the KKK after the war (if not the Grand Wizard as well). His name is infamous on that account alone, beyond the reputed brutality and alleged war crimes of his military campaigns. According to Wills, in the August 1867 state elections the Klan was relatively restrained in its actions. White Americans who made up the KKK hoped to persuade black voters that a return to their state of repression and slavery, as it existed before the war, was in their best interest. Forrest assisted in maintaining order. It was only after these efforts failed that Klan violence and intimidation escalated and became widespread.[51] Author Andrew Ward, however, writes, "In the spring of 1867, Forrest and his dragoons launched a campaign of midnight parades; 'ghost' masquerades; and 'whipping' and even 'killing Negro voters and white Republicans, to scare blacks off voting and running for office.'"[52] In an 1868 interview by a Cincinnati newspaper, Forrest claimed that the Klan had 40,000 members in Tennessee and 550,000 total members throughout the Southern states. He said he sympathized with them, but denied any formal connection. He claimed he could muster thousands of men himself. He described the Klan as "a protective political military organization... The members are sworn to recognize the government of the United States... Its objects originally were protection against Loyal Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic..." Forrest dissolved the first incarnation of the Ku Klux Klan in 1869, although many local groups continued their activities for several years.[53] And Jefferson Davis was only born in Kentucky, his only connection to it. Kentucky was not a Confederate state but suffered real harm from the Civil War. No Kentuckian should be all that fond of a Confederate president who happened to be born in the state but spent no time there. This argument is not Buchanan's best writing. Kentucky has no reason to love Jeff Davis and no one should admire Forrest for anything other than his brilliance as a military commander whose reputation also had KKK and war crimes baggage.
According to Wills, in the August 1867 state elections the Klan was relatively restrained in its actions. White Americans who made up the KKK hoped to persuade black voters that a return to their state of repression and slavery, as it existed before the war, was in their best interest. Forrest assisted in maintaining order. It was only after these efforts failed that Klan violence and intimidation escalated and became widespread.[51] Author Andrew Ward, however, writes, "In the spring of 1867, Forrest and his dragoons launched a campaign of midnight parades; 'ghost' masquerades; and 'whipping' and even 'killing Negro voters and white Republicans, to scare blacks off voting and running for office.'"[52] R Wills is wrong. When Forrest accepted leadership of the Klan it was only for the purpose of restoring order throughout the South. Law and order had slipped into anarchy. Forrest laid out two conditions for accepting leadership: 1 only former officers could be members, 2 he reserved the right to disband the group if they got out of control. Forrest was called before Congress. He reportedly met secretly with Grant, and agreed to disband the Klan after reiecievig promises that Reconstrution would be reformed. He disbanded the Klan. Later groups reformed it, with other goals. In mind. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
HorseHillary! WHAT "war crimes" and "KKK baggage"? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Even so, he played the most prominent role and lent his name to a cause that became quite infamous and deservedly so. The KKK had a durable hold on the popular imagination in the South in part because of Forrest's endorsement and leadership of it. You can try to whitewash him but I don't think you'll convince anyone that Forrest was only leading the "good KKK" and wasn't responsible in any way for the "bad KKK" which came along later after Forrest got in trouble for leading it and withdrew.
Wiki: Battle of Fort Pillow
Yet nobody in the media has the stones to even whisper about either. The silence of this hypocrisy is deafening. Soon it will be the flags of ISIS, likely after some SW-border crossing attack on our homeland. The lib media will assure us it's just multiculturalism and will berate anyone who dares to point out that Islam is a fat bag of crap.
The Battle of Fort Pillow, also known as the Fort Pillow massacre, was fought on April 12, 1864, at Fort Pillow on the Mississippi River in Henning, Tennessee, during the American Civil War. The battle ended with a massacre of Federal troops, most of them of African origin, while attempting to surrender, by soldiers under the command of Confederate Major General Nathan Bedford Forrest. Military historian David J. Eicher concluded, "Fort Pillow marked one of the bleakest, saddest events of American military history." Once again you don't have a clue what you are discussing. I have read all accounts, and I have been to Ft. Pillow and carefully inspected and walked the site. I also had an extensive discussion with the park ranger. Additionally, I have read every book on Forrest that was published prior to 5 years ago. Ft Pillow sits on a steep bluff overlooking the Mississippi River, and is approximately 250 to 300 feet high. Earthen works, which which are 10 feet high protect the front side of the fort, and the bluff and river protected the rear of the fort. Forrest carefully examined the fort, and noted the earthen works were 8 feet wide at the top. The fort's defenders had to stand on benches to fire over the top of the earthen works. He saw the defenders were unable to point their rifles down due to the width of the earthen works. He used a depression to move in place his attackers at the outside base of the earthen works. He also used snipers to force the defenders to keep their heads down. At the base of the bluff was the river, with a beach. Forrest placed two ambushes at the base of the bluff, one upstream and one downstream. When the command was given to attack Forrest's men poured over the top of the earthen works catching the defenders completely.by surprise. The undisciplined Union troops rioted, and ran for the the bluff. Some turned to fire at the attackers, but were cut down where they stood. The rest fled down the bluff, and attempted to regroup at the base. They ran up the beach firing, and ran into the first ambush, and then retreated down the beach running into the second ambush. Prior to attacking the fort Forrest gave the Union troops the chance to surrender. They refused, and paid the price. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The KKK had a durable hold on the popular imagination in the South in part because of Forrest's endorsement and leadership of it. You can try to whitewash him but I don't think you'll convince anyone that Forrest was only leading the "good KKK" and wasn't responsible in any way for the "bad KKK" which came along later after Forrest got in trouble for leading it and withdrew. I hate to be unkind, but I will state, you have an unearned Internet Doctorate in Wild Speculations and Historical Ignorance. Go research the history in depth, and come back when you have studied the subject. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Go read "Life of Lieutenant-General Nathan Bedford Forrest (Annotated) Kindle Edition by John Allan Wyeth (Author), Galen C Dukes (Editor)" Wyeth was president of the AMA and surgeon general of the United States. During the CW he served under Gen Wheeler in one of Forrest's old units. He spent years talking to those who served under Forrest and researching the General. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
From Amazon regarding Wyeth's that Devil Forrest. Brian Jun 19, 2015Brian rated it 4 of 5 stars And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Refusing to surrender prior to battle does not mean that any subsequent massacre is not a war crime. What a shallow argument you are relying on.
Apparently I have stepped on the toes of your craven adulation for the most vicious and brutal Confederate general who was also the main bulwark during Reconstruction of the Ku Klux Klan. The KKK was legitimized for generations by his leadership of it in the early postwar era. So am I supposed to apologize?
Maybe you've got much bigger fish to fry than l'il ol' me. HotAir: Memphis mayor: C’mon, let’s dig up Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest’s remains No word yet that they want to dig him up just so they can burn him.
Probably not, but would it be okay to just to let Gary have his hero and be proud of what he feels were the great and wonderful things Forrest did in his lifetime? It is not necessary to respond since this is just a passing thought as I read down the thread….I am not interested in either commending or degrading Forrest. I apologize in advance if I have stepped on your toes.
i'm trying to find the testimony of Forrest regarding his conversion experience. Do I worship Forrest? No, I worship the Christ Who changes men's hearts, and I have no doubt whatsoever He changed Forrest's. If is the unbelief in skeptics who cannot see and doubt what God has done.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Nathan Bedford Forrest: General's actions exhibited high moral standards By The Times-Union , As a descendant of a Confederate sergeant from Kentucky who loyally fought under Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest during the War between the States, I wish to clarify some errors and misconceptions concerning this brilliant man. Honest and self-reliant, he became a proficient businessman, dealing in real estate, cotton cultivation and slave sales. It should be noted that Forrest did not separate Negro families and would not sell his slaves to men of known cruelty. He did not pursue this business venture with an attitude of hatred toward African-Americans, but, rather, with the view of financial independence for himself and his family. Forrest could read and write, albeit crudely. There are numerous slave bills of sale, war documents and postwar letters that still exist to substantiate this fact. Victory after victory, his promotions soon followed. At the conclusion of the war in 1865, Forrest was a lieutenant general, the only person on either side to rise from private to that rank. Fort Pillow was defended by runaway slaves and Tennessee Tories, who were from Tennessee but chose to fight against their native state. Their insolent behavior and abuse toward citizens in the surrounding vicinity had not gone unnoticed by the Confederate government. Forrest's men, many of whom were from Tennessee, regarded these ''home-grown Yanks'' as traitors. They had wives and children subjected to their random acts of violence and arson. Forrest was determined to squelch the outrages perpetrated against the local populace. The general demanded the capitulation of the fort three times before he ordered the assault. It is well-documented that many of the Negroes, after having surrendered, retrieved their guns and shot and bayoneted their captors. Union Gen. William T. Sherman appointed a congressional committee to investigate the allegations of the so-called massacre at Fort Pillow. After interviewing hundreds of eyewitnesses, the committee exonerated Forrest of all the charges against him. Forrest exhibited conduct that exemplified a high standard of morals. He did not drink alcoholic beverages nor did he use tobacco in any form. His life should be an inspiration to all people, regardless of race or social status. WILLIAM J. STIER Jacksonville And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The conversion of Nathan Bedford Forrest to Christ Though Forrest was only in his 50’s, a lifetime of hard living and battle were beginning to take their toll on him. He began attending church with his beloved wife at the Court Avenue Presbyterian Church in Memphis where the gospel was preached faithfully by Rev. George Stainback. And he began to feel the Holy Spirit’s conviction for a lifetime of sin. One day he ran into an old army buddy who had been under his command named Raleigh White. Forrest exclaimed, “Why, Raleigh White, its you! I heard you’d gone down to South America or somewhere!” White replied that this was not true, but that he had in fact become a Christian, having been led to Christ by his wife after the war. After trying his hand in business, White succumbed to an overwhelming call to preach the gospel of Christ to sinners; and was now a Southern Baptist Pastor living in Texas. Forrest listened to White’s testimony with obvious excitement, and then asked White if he would pray for him. The two veterans went into a bank lobby and knelt together as White prayed for Forrest. Then they parted ways. Another gospel seed had been planted that would soon take permanent root. In the Fall of 1875, Forrest found himself setting next to his wife listening to Rev. Stainback preach from Jesus’ words in Matthew 7: "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall." (Matthew 7:24-27 NASB) Forrest’s heart was crushed and his spiritual eyes were opened. After the service he pulled Rev. Stainback aside and as Rev. Stainback later recounted: “Forrest suddenly leaned against the wall and his eyes filled with tears. 'Sir, your sermon has removed the last prop from under me,' he said, 'I am the fool that built on the sand; I am a poor miserable sinner.” Stainback told Forrest to go home and read and meditate on Psalm 51 and see where it led him. “Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin. For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me.” (Psalms 51:1-3 NASB) The next night, Rev. Stainback went by to visit with Forrest, and they fell to their knees and prayed together. Forrest said that he had put his trust in the Redeemer, and that his heart was finally at peace. The final two years of his life seemed to bear out the truth of his confession. Nathan Bedford Forrest the fierce fighter, gambler, racist, and sinner….was a changed man. In 1875, Forrest was invited to speak to a black civil rights group called the “Pole-Bearers” Association, a forerunner for today’s NAACP. Though mocked by some white people for appearing, Forrest addressed the black people in love saying, “I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man, to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand.” At the end of his speech a young, black girl named Lou Lewis presented General Forrest with a bouquet of flowers as a sign of reconciliation between the two races. Forrest accepted the flowers, then leaned down and gently kissed the girl on the cheek, a public act of reverence and respect that was absolutely unheard of for a white man to do in that day. Indeed, Nathan Bedford Forrest, former Grand Wizard of the KKK, was a new creature in Christ. Nathan Bedford Forrest died from complications from Diabetes on October 21, 1877, when he was 56 years old. He said on his deathbed that there was “not a cloud that separated him from his beloved Heavenly Father.” The lessons from the life of Nathan Bedford Forrest are legion. His battlefield tactics have been studied by military men the world over, and he has been called by many a strategic genius in the art of war. But his personal and spiritual life give us far greater lessons. He is a clear testimonial example of God’s overwhelming power to change even the hardest of sinners. Though sadly, Forrest today is mostly remembered for his sin. Many efforts have been made by civil rights leaders to have his name removed from parks and schools all across the South because of his being the epitome of racism. And yet, when the complete story of Nathan Bedford Forrest is known, we see him as being the very example of what we would hope to see from all racial bigots: a transformed and changed life. Though he was once the black man’s enemy, he became one of their dearest friends and defenders. His desire to see black people serving in politics and professional occupations was a clarion call for equality that was way ahead of its time. In fact, this “Southern racist” called for greater civil rights than most Northern abolitionists would have been comfortable with. Forrest had once owned and sold slaves for his business. Now his business was to see that they were treated fairly. It reminds me of another slave- trader turned Christian by the name of John Newton, who wrote a hymn you might have heard of: “Amazing Grace! How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me! I once was lost, but now am found; was blind, but now I see.” To hold a grudge against Nathan Bedford Forrest is to deny one of the greatest truths Christ teaches us; that the power of the gospel can change anyone. And that we should ask the Lord to “forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” (Matthew 6:12) Nathan Bedford Forrest was a sinner par excellence. So am I. And so are you, if you would be humble enough to admit it. For the Bible teaches us that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) Nathan Bedford Forrest was despised in his day, as he is in most circles today, though Christians should forgive him just as Christ has forgiven us. Union General William T. Sherman vowed to catch “that devil Forrest.” But Sherman never was able to do it. In the end, it was Jesus Christ who finally caught up with him. And rather than kill him….Jesus changed him and on a glorious and providential day in 1875, the unthinkable and impossible actually happened: “that devil” got saved. Let us hope and pray that the Lord Jesus Christ would save many more “devils” like Nathan Bedford Forrest and transfer them from “the domain of darkness to the kingdom of His beloved Son.” (Colossians 1:13) And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
They are not just going after Gen. Forrest, they are going after all vestiges of white Southern culture. They will probably demolish Lee Park in Dallas. Was Robert E. Lee an evil man? His final act of the war was to disobey orders in order to save thousands of lives on both sides of the conflict. What is happening now is like what was done to Kosovo. When the Albanian Muslims were put in power their with NATO as their Air Force, they proceeded to demolish all traces that Serbs had ever lived there. All monuments to Serbs, Christian Churches, even gravestones that had a cross on them were destroyed. Obama wants to eliminate all traces that whites were ever here. Those sites will not remain vacant after the destruction. In place of the statue honoring General Lee, I'm sure that the city of Dallas will erect a statue to honor someone like Che Guevarra or Emiliano Zapata. They've already made one Plaza of Mexican Heroes in Dallas, and they want to continue their destruction of America so that it can more fully be merely a defacto northern province of Mexico. Obama promised that he would "fundamentally transform America", and the first step in that is destroying the old America that he intends to replace. My favorite teacher in Middle School was a Civil War Reenactor. One day we came to school and saw an Officer's Tent with the Southern Cross flying next to it. He showed us his black powder guns and taught us how to load and fire them. Everyone loved his classes, he made it fun to learn, which is probably one of the reasons why school performance is so horrid now. If someone tried to teach like he did nowadays, they would be killed / arrested or at the very least fired. And no, he wasn't a closet Klansman. He had us memorise speeches by Frederick Douglas too. But at the same time, he didn't propagandise that the average Southerner was fighting because they hated blacks. A study of over 25,000 Civil War letters and diaries of Southern soldiers showed that they hardly ever mentioned slavery. They wrote much more about responding to an armed invasion by the US Government and about State's rights.
You are going to blame him for an organization he had headed shifting 180 degrees AFTER he died? Seriously? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
There was and is more to that than the brief quote you posted,but it has been a couple of decades since I read about it,and I can't remember the exact details right now and don't have the time or the desire to look them up. And why even bother you are already so obviously biased you are willing to blame Forrest for things that happened years after his death? There is obviously no amount of facts that will get you to change your mind. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The lib media will assure us it's just multiculturalism and will berate anyone who dares to point out that Islam is a fat bag of crap. That wouldn't surprise me a bit. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And THAT is what has your panties all in a wad. He headed the KKK and that's all you need to know due to your brainwashing and prejudices. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Of course they are. Their ultimate goal is to destroy America,and to do that they have to destroy all vestiges of American culture. They destroyed the black culture in the late 1960s,and now their goal is to destroy the southwest Mexican-American culture (shared by a BUNCH of whites) and the southern white culture. Which are pretty much all that is left of America. The north and northwest has no regional or racial culture. Most are nothing but mindless tools with no sense of history or individuality. What is happening now is like what was done to Kosovo. EXCELLENT analogy! Thank you! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The flag was first used by the Republic of West Florida, which broke away from Spanish West Florida in September 1810 and was annexed by the United States 90 days later. In 2006, the state of Louisiana formally linked the name "Bonnie Blue" to the West Florida banner by passing a law designating the Bonnie Blue Flag as "the official flag of the Republic of West Florida Historic Region”. When the state of Mississippi seceded from the Union in January 1861, they adopted the Republic of West Florida Flag as many had ties to the West Florida rebellion. A flag bearing a single white star on a blue field was flown from the capitol dome. Harry McCarthy helped popularize this flag as a symbol of the Confederacy by writing the words to the popular song "The Bonnie Blue Flag" early in 1861. Some seceding southern states incorporated the motif of a white star on a blue field into new state flags. The "Bonnie Blue Flag" was used as an unofficial flag during the early months of 1861. It was flying above the Confederate batteries that first opened fire on Fort Sumter, beginning the Civil War. The Van Dorn battle flag was also carried by Confederate troops fighting in the Trans-Mississippi and Western theaters of war. In addition, many military units had their own regimental flags they would carry into battle.
None of which absolves his gross acts as a general and as a key leader of the KKK and all that followed.
It did not shift 180 degrees at all.
Let me be blunt. In my mind you jammed your thumb in Christ's eye in refusing to look at what Forrest did objectively,. Furthermore, you refused to see him as forgiven.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The state of his soul is not the question. It is the question of his guilt and responsibility for his actions. To you, any accurate portrayal of Forrest's actions is a physical assault on Christ Himself. Seems like you have made an idol of Forrest, elevating him like a god. You should realize that I still would want to execute Charles Manson and other mass murderers for their crimes, even if they reformed and led exemplary Christian lives on death row.
So TC, should all of the statues of Robert E. Lee be torn down as well? After the war had ended, he came to be revered by many in the North as well because of his exemplary behavior as a true southern gentleman. Here are a few more of his famous quotes: "What a cruel thing war is... to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors." "I like whiskey. I always did, and that is why I never drink it." "We must expect reverses, even defeats. They are sent to teach us wisdom and prudence, to call forth greater energies, and to prevent our falling into greater disasters." "We have fought this fight as long, and as well as we know how. We have been defeated. For us as a Christian people, there is now but one course to pursue. We must accept the situation." "A true man of honor feels humbled himself when he cannot help humbling others." "I tremble for my country when I hear of confidence expressed in me. I know too well my weakness, that our only hope is in God."
And the witch-hunt goes on... The more the politicians surrender to political correctness, the worse it will get.
Thank you for posting this. Oh the wonders of His Grace, the Divine Physician heals the wicked and broken. God Bless. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
Perhaps he should realize no one wants to see that dude in his underwear. Just saying...
Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
Welcome back.
Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)
It did not shift 180 degrees at all. Then how do you explain the organization that became the NAACP invited him to a dinner with him as the guest of honor? Admit that you are a victim of bogus leftist history,and move on. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Manson is and always has been a mental basket case that should be locked away at a state farm for fools,but he never murdered anyone. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Thanks!
He was guilty of.what? He was found not guilty of the Ft Pillow massacre? I ask you again, guilty of what? To you, any accurate portrayal of Forrest's actions is a physical assault on Christ Himself. What accurate portrayal? And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
I don't have to explain or excuse it. You're the one defending the founder of the KKK, not me.
He was never tried for it, in particular the massacre of civilians near the fort. His exchanges with the Union commander(s) threatening "no quarter" were followed by a massacre of both black and white Union troops. He threatened a massacre and a massacre ensued shortly. But your real problem is not especially with me. I won't be the one tearing down the various Confederate memorials across the South. And that will occur with regularity in coming years. I expect that Davis, Forrest, and Lee will all be disappearing from the public eye outside of Civil War museums. Some people may try to excuse Forrest as a commander but they will not be able to excuse his primary leadership role of the KKK and fostering its growth across the South to become a horror of the post-Reconstruction era. Without Forrest, there would have been no KKK as we know it from history.
I think they will mostly be destroyed or moved to museums in coming years.
To ascribe ex post facto what happened to a premeditated conspiracy to "massacre" is logically and ethically wrong. Post-war lithographs of the battle and Union propaganda and disinformation managed to inflame passions. The prints used distortions and “tried” Forrest and his Confederate soldiers in the public forum, then found them guilty, despite the results of official Union inquiries into the conduct of the battle. Interestingly, all the prints and lithographs showing women and children present at the battle are part of the disinformation as all but ten civilian men had been evacuated by the Union Navy shortly before the battle. The women and children depicted being killed and brutalized by “blood-thirsty Confederates” in the notorious lithographs were not even present when the fort was assaulted and overrun.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Casualty figures vary slightly, but approximately 230 Union soldiers (of the approximately 560 in the fort’s garrison during the battle) were killed. About 60 African-American Union soldiers were taken prisoner (168 white Union troops were captured), the remainder either killed or reported as “missing in action.” In the wake of the battle, Forrest released 14 of the most seriously wounded Union African-American captives to the U.S. Navy steamer, Silver Cloud. About 14 Confederate soldiers were killed and more than 80 were wounded. Only two weeks after the battle, a U.S. Congressional inquiry could not conclusively determine exactly what happened. Both sides failed to control the action, and only Forrest’s direct, personal intervention to stop the shooting saved many of the Union defenders left standing on the beach. Not satisfied with the Congressional inquiry, Union General William T. Sherman convened a not-so- impartial inquiry. He openly stated that he would try and convict General Forrest. However, Sherman’s inquiry also ended without substantive evidence to find Forrest culpable. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
At about 3 p.m. Confederate ammunition resupplies arrived and Forrest sent a demand for surrender to Major Booth not knowing Booth already had been killed. Forrest’s surrender demand read: "I now demand unconditional surrender of your forces, at the same time assuring you that you will be treated as prisoners of war. … I have received a new supply of ammunition and can take your works by assault, and if compelled to do so you must take the consequences." No massacre was threatened. The last few posts were written by a army history professor at aft Leavenworth, And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
You can defend him all you like. I still expect that statues and memorials to Forrest will come down. There seems to be little interest so far in renaming highways and streets but there is a very prominent highway with his name that they might target. I doubt the Left is going to be satisfied with a SC Confederate flag.
I don't have to explain or excuse it. Ain't THAT "convenient"!!! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And that because the truth is held in unrighteousness.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Even the museums will be closed eventually,and the only version of history we will will will be the PC ones. The globalists destroyed black American culture in the 60's,and now they are well down the road to destroying white American culture. They HAVE to do this in order to establish their globalist culture so people will look to them as the ultimate authority on everything,and the only way for "decent" people to live. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I want to see every street and public building bearing the name of the criminal and communist known as Dr. Martin Luther King renamed. Even the "Dr" is stolen. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I think they'll convert them to being indoctrination centers, like they have Holocaust museums around the country for The Children to visit. Eventually they'll come up with a new phrase for the slavery era, something more biased than just Civil War. Like "The War Against Slavery" or something.
Of course they will. They started doing that with the public schools back in the 1920's,and today the "globalist truth" is the only viewpoint children are exposed to and is the official "truth". Like I said before,they have been teaching chil-runs AND children since 1865 that the War of Northern Aggression was about slavery,and that Lincoln "freed the slaves". Both obvious lies anyone willing to spend a casual day doing the research can expose,but that was over 100 years ago,those people are all dead,and who cares anyhow when it "Black Lives Matter" that we should all be concerned about? They have been teaching our children than America is a Democracy since at least the early 1950's,and that was the biggest lie ever told. Yet not a single one of the "learned" talking heads on any of the networks or any of the universities utters a word about this lie. Eventually they'll come up with a new phrase for the slavery era, something more biased than just Civil War. Like "The War Against Slavery" or something. It will be something more powerful than that,and since it was really the blacks that enslaved the other blacks and sold them to the white man,there is some danger of non-PC thinking. I think it will be more along the line of "The White Man's War Against Humanity",or even "The White Man's War Against the Original Humans". The rabid Jews will finally have their revenge against the Christians for (truthfully) the horrors that Christians have inflicted upon them over the centuries. Of course none of the whites/Christians that were responsible for the truly horrible acts inflicted on the Jews over the centuries are still alive,but that's just a minor detail. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Catchy title. : )
Catchy title. : ) I'll be here all week. Or until AKAStone bans me,anyhow. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
#2. To: sneakypete, nativist nationalist (#1)
#3. To: nativist nationalist (#0)
Rep. Steve Cohen wants the name of legendary cavalryman Nathan Bedford Forrest removed from Forrest Park in Memphis and his bust gone from the capitol; Sen. Mitch McConnell wants the statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis removed from the Kentucky capitol.
Forrest was an early member of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). Historian and Forrest biographer Brian Steel Wills writes, "While there is no doubt that Forrest joined the Klan, there is some question as to whether he actually was the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan."[49] The KKK (the Klan) was formed by veterans of the Confederate Army in Pulaski, Tennessee in 1866 and soon expanded throughout the state and beyond. Forrest became involved sometime in late 1866 or early 1867. A common report is that Forrest arrived in Nashville in April 1867 while the Klan was meeting at the Maxwell House Hotel, probably at the encouragement of a state Klan leader, former Confederate general George Gordon. The organization had grown to the point where an experienced commander was needed, and Forrest fit the bill. In Room 10 of the Maxwell, Forrest was sworn in as a member.[50]
#4. To: TooConservative, ALL (#3)
#5. To: TooConservative (#3)
no one should admire Forrest for anything other than his brilliance as a military commander whose reputation also had KKK and war crimes baggage.
#6. To: GarySpFC (#4)
Wills is wrong. When Forrest accepted leadership of the Klan it was only for the purpose of restoring order throughout the South. Law and order had slipped into anarchy. Forrest laid out two conditions for accepting leadership: 1 only former officers could be members, 2 he reserved the right to disband the group if they got out of control. Forrest was called before Congress. He reportedly met secretly with Grant, and agreed to disband the Klan after reiecievig promises that Reconstrution would be reformed. He disbanded the Klan. Later groups reformed it, with other goals. In mind.
#7. To: sneakypete (#5)
The Battle of Fort Pillow, also known as the Fort Pillow massacre, was fought on April 12, 1864, at Fort Pillow on the Mississippi River in Henning, Tennessee, during the American Civil War. The battle ended with a massacre of Federal troops, most of them of African origin, while attempting to surrender, by soldiers under the command of Confederate Major General Nathan Bedford Forrest. Military historian David J. Eicher concluded, "Fort Pillow marked one of the bleakest, saddest events of American military history."
#8. To: sneakypete (#1)
If you want to see flag symbols of hatred flown in America today,you only have to look at the Mexican and LaRaza flags,and the African and Black Power flags.
#9. To: TooConservative (#7)
#10. To: TooConservative (#6)
Even so, he played the most prominent role and lent his name to a cause that became quite infamous and deservedly so.
#11. To: TooConservative, ALL (#6)
#12. To: All (#11)
Shelves: american-history-civil-war.
That Devil Forrest is an exhaustive account of General Nathan Bedford Forrest who was one of the most successful generals of the Civil War for the confederacy. A tenacious fighter who could be downright vicious and unrelenting he was a largely uneducated man that rose to great prominence. This book written by a former confederate soldier seeks to exonerate the claims of Forrest killing surrendered troops and highlight his military capability. While there is little arguing the capability of Forre ...more.
flagLike · see review
LaDene Mayville Apr 13, 2014LaDene Mayville rated it 4 of 5 stars A wonderful insight into a very highly misunderstood man. General Forrest was a military genius who had no formal military training but he sure kept the Union Army on its toes. flag1 like · Like · see review Kent
#13. To: GarySpFC (#9)
Prior to attacking the fort Forrest gave the Union troops the chance to surrender. They refused, and paid the price.
#14. To: GarySpFC (#10)
I hate to be unkind, but I will state, you have an unearned Internet Doctorate in Wild Speculations and Historical Ignorance. Go research the history in depth, and come back when you have studied the subject.
#15. To: GarySpFC (#12)
From Amazon regarding Wyeth's that Devil Forrest.
#16. To: TooConservative, GarySpFC (#14)
So am I supposed to apologize?
#17. To: TooConservative (#14)
#18. To: TooConservative (#13)
#19. To: too Conservative, Redleghunter, Liberator (#18)
#20. To: nativist nationalist, all (#0)
#21. To: TooConservative (#6)
Even so, he played the most prominent role and lent his name to a cause that became quite infamous and deservedly so.
#22. To: TooConservative (#7)
(Edited)
#23. To: Sleestak (#8)
Soon it will be the flags of ISIS, likely after some SW-border crossing attack on our homeland.
#24. To: TooConservative (#14)
the most vicious and brutal Confederate general who was also the main bulwark during Reconstruction of the Ku Klux Klan.
#25. To: Orthodoxa (#20)
They are not just going after Gen. Forrest, they are going after all vestiges of white Southern culture.
#26. To: Orthodoxa (#20)
The Bonnie Blue Flag
Dixie
#27. To: GarySpFC (#19)
The conversion of Nathan Bedford Forrest to Christ
#28. To: sneakypete (#21)
You are going to blame him for an organization he had headed shifting 180 degrees AFTER he died?
#29. To: TooConservative (#27)
#30. To: GarySpFC (#29)
Let me be blunt. In my mind you jammed your thumb in Christ's eye in refusing to look at what Forrest did objectively,. Furthermore, you refused to see him as forgiven.
#31. To: TooConservative, GarySpDC (#30)
#32. To: nativist nationalist (#0)
Cop Fired For Wearing Confederate Flag Underwear
#33. To: GarySpFC (#19)
#34. To: hondo68 (#32)
#35. To: Orthodoxa (#20)
#36. To: TooConservative (#28)
You are going to blame him for an organization he had headed shifting 180 degrees AFTER he died?
#37. To: TooConservative (#30)
You should realize that I still would want to execute Charles Manson and other mass murderers for their crimes.
#38. To: redleghunter (#35)
Welcome back.
#39. To: TooConservative (#30)
(Edited)
The state of his soul is not the question. It is the question of his guilt and responsibility for his actions.
#40. To: sneakypete (#36)
Then how do you explain the organization that became the NAACP invited him to a dinner with him as the guest of honor?
#41. To: GarySpFC (#39)
He was found not guilty of the Ft Pillow massacre?
#42. To: GarySpFC (#39)
(Edited)
#43. To: Orthodoxa (#31)
So TC, should all of the statues of Robert E. Lee be torn down as well?
#44. To: TooConservative (#41)
#45. To: TooConservative (#43)
#46. To: TooConservative (#41)
His exchanges with the Union commander(s) threatening "no quarter" were followed by a massacre of both black and white Union troops. He threatened a massacre and a massacre ensued shortly.
#47. To: GarySpFC (#44)
#48. To: TooConservative (#40)
Then how do you explain the organization that became the NAACP invited him to a dinner with him as the guest of honor?
#49. To: TooConservative (#47)
#50. To: TooConservative (#41)
I won't be the one tearing down the various Confederate memorials across the South. And that will occur with regularity in coming years. I expect that Davis, Forrest, and Lee will all be disappearing from the public eye outside of Civil War museums.
#51. To: TooConservative (#47)
There seems to be little interest so far in renaming highways and streets
#52. To: sneakypete (#50)
Even the museums will be closed eventually,and the only version of history we will will will be the PC ones.
#53. To: TooConservative (#52)
I think they'll convert them to being indoctrination centers, like they have Holocaust museums around the country for The Children to visit.
#54. To: sneakypete (#53)
...more along the line of "The White Man's War Against Humanity"...
#55. To: TooConservative (#54)
...more along the line of "The White Man's War Against Humanity"...
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