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Title: Marines looking at deploying aboard foreign ships
Source: USA Today
URL Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/ ... 1/marines-amphibious/28935549/
Published: Jun 22, 2015
Author: Jim Michaels
Post Date: 2015-06-22 17:33:03 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 3038
Comments: 22

Faced with a shortage of U.S. Navy ships, the Marine Corps is exploring a plan to deploy its forces aboard foreign vessels to ensure they can respond quickly to global crises around Europe and western Africa.

The initiative is a stopgap way to deploy Marines aboard ships overseas until more American vessels are available, said Brig. Gen. Norman Cooling, deputy commander, U.S. Marine Corps Forces Europe and Africa.

The Marines will be able to respond quickly to evacuate embassies or protect U.S. property and citizens, a need highlighted by the 2012 attack in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador.

"There's no substitute for U.S. amphibious" vessels, Cooling said. "We're looking at other options" in the meantime, he added.

The Marines have been working with Spain, Italy, the United Kingdom and other close allies to determine the suitability of the foreign ships for U.S. personnel and aircraft.

The units would be designed for limited operations and not major amphibious assaults. A ground force of about 100 to 120 Marines would be deployed along with three or four Ospreys, which fly like airplanes but can take off and land like helicopters.

The U.S. Navy has 30 amphibious ships but says it needs 38 to fulfill war fighting requirements. It won't reach that level until 2028 because of budget constraints, according to the Navy.

Critics say the Navy has allowed its amphibious capabilities to decline.

"Allowing the continued atrophy of the Navy-Marine Corps team's amphibious capacity is simply not an option given the national security challenges facing the United States and its allies," said Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., a member of the Armed Services Committee, in an email statement.

Much of the Navy's current amphibious fleet is being used in the Pacific — where the U.S. military is attempting to respond to an expansionist China — and the Middle East, where it is responding to an endless series of crises.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 14.

#5. To: redleghunter (#0)

I have an idea. Why not just hire Chinese Marines to do our fighting for us at a huge discount? They can use their own ships and we can save a bundle of money!

OR.......,we could just quit shipping Marines all over the freaking world to fight other people's battles?

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-22   18:57:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: sneakypete, TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#5)

Pete good points. The European Union has more interests in the areas where we fight wars. They have all (even the UK) drawn down their armed forces to almost nil and have become reliant on American military power to uphold their interests.

Don't get me started on our Allies and their "contributions." I'll cut the Brits some slack given they have stuck it out the longest but are now so small they could not sustain multiple deployments.

Yet all these Euro nations continue to import the very fanatics who we fight in the ME. Beggars to their own demise.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-23   0:58:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: redleghunter, Pericles, sneakypete, Vicomte13 (#8)

Pete good points. The European Union has more interests in the areas where we fight wars. They have all (even the UK) drawn down their armed forces to almost nil and have become reliant on American military power to uphold their interests.

Don't get me started on our Allies and their "contributions." I'll cut the Brits some slack given they have stuck it out the longest but are now so small they could not sustain multiple deployments.

Obviously, the NATO tail is wagging the American dog.

Look at Yugoslavia/Bosnia/Serbia/Kosovo. A EUro mess from start to end. Same thing with the destruction of Libya as a functioning country.

OTOH, we've drug NATO EU into our wars like Iraq and Af-Pak, much to their regret.

Getting rid of NATO would reduce the incentives for wasteful and counterproductive wars-of-option.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-23   8:36:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: TooConservative (#11)

NATO's usefulness was in forming a united front to resist Josef Stalin's Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union fell apart in 1991. NATO's shelf life expired a quarter century ago. Save money and be done with it. Europe is the world's largest economy. Let them defend themselves.

Our economy is careening towards a Greek outcome. We do not have the money to maintain world dominion anymore. We are not rich enough to police the oceans. It is not our job. We appointed it to ourselves, and now it is bankrupting us. And we're every bit as addicted to our idea of being the "First Nation", "The Leader" as the Greeks are to their notions of high pensions with no functional tax system.

And in both cases, this delusion of the mind makes it impossible to fix anything, and means that the country must slide into bankruptcy.

It DOESN'T MATTER that China is aggressively expanding and that Russia is going to grab a piece of, or all of, the Ukraine. The UNITED STATES is neither powerful enough nor rich enough to stop any of that, and it is not, and never was, our job TO stop it.

It's the job of the people in Asia to contain China. That can be done simply and easily by nuclear proliferation. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines can nuke up, and that's the end of threats to territorial integrity.

Likewise, Europe can nuke up over the Ukraine, if they really CARE.

As an American, I remember when the Filipinos threw us out. Why, then, am I spending a dime preventing China from seizing the Filipinos territorial waters? They had our protection, and we built fine bases there. They kicked us out. So why is it OUR problem, then, if China uses its military superiority to take away the ocean bottoms claimed by the Filipinos. Seems like they made a bad choice, for them, that it lets US off the hook of having to defend them, and I really do not give a goddamn that the Philippines loses its ocean bottoms to China. The Filipinos were dumb and made a bad decision, and now they lose. That's skin off their nose. From MY perspective, the fact that we're NOT there any more means that we don't have to get in a fight with China AT ALL. The Chinese push the Filipinos around just like we push Cuba or Haiti around. And IT IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

The Filipinos COULD have avoided this by not being fools and kicking us out. But they DID kick us out, which means that WE are saved a lot of trouble, if they're smart. I say: LET CHINA WIN over the Filipino claims. The Philippines is a little weak country. They had an ally. They threw us out. So now they get pushed around by China, and it IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

Nor is it my problem that the Chinese and Japanese hate each other. Japan is an economic competitor. They can build nuclear weapons and stop China in its tracks. IT IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

South Korea is advanced. They can build nuclear weapons too, and should.

So should Taiwan.

Long ago, Taiwan could have declared its independence, but instead the absurd little government there, which was so corrupt that they lost control of Mainland China, CLAIMED to be rulers of ALL China. It was always an absurd pretension. The Communists won. The KMT lost. China is ruled from Peking, not Taipei. During those long years, Taipei could have relinquished its ridiculous claim to not only be an integral part of China, but to be China's only legitimate government.

And WE could have been intelligent and not insisted upon an obvious stupidity: Taiwan is obviously NOT the ruler of China, and never will be in any universe that ever has, or ever will, existed. We played a high school game.

Instead of declaring independence and having done with it back when we opened to China, back when the Chinese couldn't do anything, we allowed the Taiwanese to nurse their pretensions.

And so NOW, TODAY, China is big and bad, and CHINA agrees: Taiwan IS an integral part of China. If Taiwan seceded TODAY, China would invade, and would win unless we went to war over it - and that might very well end in a nuclear exchange that destroys the planet.

So, the Taiwanese were impossibly arrogant, stubborn, overreaching and foolish. THEY made an argument for 40 years, and now they're trapped in the snare of that argument. China agrees: Taiwan is an integral part of China, and the Chinese are not going to let them go.

Once upon a time, the Taiwanese COULD HAVE set a course for themselves as an independent and free people. They CHOSE not to. WE should not hock OURSELVES to THEIR foolish choice. Taiwan is China, and I am not willing to expend money we don't have, and risk a nuclear war with China, to preserve the political liberty of some Chinese province, just as I am not willing to go to war with Russia over the Ukraine.

But...but...

But WHAT?

"The "bad guys" will win! If China is "bad guys", why do they have "Most Favored Nation" status for US trade purposes? If Russia is "Bad guys" why do we have normal relations with them.

It's comical, really. I hear all of the "national security" arguments made by men who like to sound smart.

It is not in the national security interest of the United States to go bankrupt trying to defend Chinese from Chinese, Russians from Russians, or murky Chinese sea bottoms from regional struggles. It is in our interest to NOT BE INVOLVED in ANY of that crap. It's not our affair. We don't have the money, or the power. And we weaken ourselves and destroy the prosperity of our own people and our own future pretending that we are more powerful and important than we really are.

It is time to accept a lesser status in the world. The British and French people, and Russians too, and Japanese, are all MUCH better off now that they've given up all pretense of Empire. We still like to listen to political science majors crow that we're the "Indispensible Nation". It feels good to stroke our own ego. It also feels good to get a blowjob from a whore.

But guess what - if you do the latter, the good feeling is accompanied by a heapin' helpin' o' herpes, and you pay for it. And if you do the former, you go bankrupt and LOSE ANYWAY, because we are NOT , in FACT, powerful enough to stop China from winning in the China seas, or Russia from winning in Russia, and we should stop thinking like teenagers and grow up and stop throwing away money to lose again and again and go bankrupt. We NEED THAT MONEY here.

IF we got our financial house in order, we'd have pretty good lives. We have the resources to live better than Scandinavians. But the fact is that Scandinavians live longer and healthier and happer than we do, because they take the modest excesses from their modest economies and invest directly in themselves. And that gives them very secure lives.

We, on the other hand, piss away our fortune trying to pretend that we're the "Indispensible Nation"...and getting humiliated on foreign battlefields from Chosen to Vietnam to Beirut to the Persian Gulf to Aden to Iraq...and we bluster and harm our economy in pointless sanctions and posturing over the China seas and Russia...and the locals ignore us and forge ahead, and win. They end up stronger, we end up weaker, looking stupid and ineffective, with bodies to bury sometimes, and injured soldiers to then disregard and turn into homeless criminals that prey on us, while we go bankrupt.

Americans are really crappy at war and foreign policy. Sadly, like the Taiwanese of old, we actually think we're great at it, and are impervious to reality.

So I guess we've gotta piss away what's left of our national treasure losing wars and struggles, until we collapse into a Greek ruin...but WITHOUT the pensions, because we pissed all that money away trying - and failing - to stop the Russians from ruling Russia, and the Chinese from ruling the China Seas, and the Muslims from ruling Muslimania.

God we're dolts. An arrogant, stubborn, blustering ones. Caricatures. Conservatives are always saying how we need to grow up and become realistic. Then they talk about slashing social programs. We all DO need to grow up and become realistic, but the REALLY means slashing the military, bringing it home, accepting the inevitable defeats on a bunch of battlefields of choice around the world, and once we've lost the Empire, like Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, and the USSR all did, using the freed-up resources to fix our accounts and get on with a Scandinavian-style system of internal social supports for one another.

That way we, too, can live longer lives, with less crime, and generally greater happiness, and stop being run ragged, worrying about losing our jobs, all so that we can hand money to an incompetent military and foreign policy establishment that has lost everything since 1946.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-06-23   9:34:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 14.

#16. To: Vicomte13 (#14)

Our economy is careening towards a Greek outcome.

Nobody's fault but our own. Just like Greece,we can lay the blame directly at the feet of our "buy a vote" politicians and the voters they buy. America is done unless we go back to a system where only land owners can vote. Democracy is nothing but slow-motion national suicide.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23 09:44:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Vicomte13 (#14)

It's the job of the people in Asia to contain China. That can be done simply and easily by nuclear proliferation. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines can nuke up, and that's the end of threats to territorial integrity.

Likewise, Europe can nuke up over the Ukraine, if they really CARE.

I agree with all that you wrote, these bits especially.

If the Norks and the mullahs of Iran can be trusted with nukes, I think the EU and Japan and South Korea (and Taiwan) can too.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-23 09:57:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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