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Title: Pope Francis warns of destruction of Earth's ecosystem in leaked encyclical
Source: The Guardian
URL Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/20 ... on-ecosystem-leaked-encyclical
Published: Jun 16, 2015
Author: Stephanie Kirchgaessner & John Hooper
Post Date: 2015-06-16 14:37:17 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 32027
Comments: 136

Pope Francis will this week call for changes in lifestyles and energy consumption to avert the “unprecedented destruction of the ecosystem” before the end of this century, according to a leaked draft of a papal encyclical. In a document released by an Italian magazine on Monday, the pontiff will warn that failure to act would have “grave consequences for all of us”.

Francis also called for a new global political authority tasked with “tackling … the reduction of pollution and the development of poor countries and regions”. His appeal echoed that of his predecessor, pope Benedict XVI, who in a 2009 encyclical proposed a kind of super-UN to deal with the world’s economic problems and injustices.

According to the lengthy draft, which was obtained and published by L’Espresso magazine, the Argentinean pope will align himself with the environmental movement and its objectives. While accepting that there may be some natural causes of global warming, the pope will also state that climate change is mostly a man-made problem.

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#63. To: redleghunter, hondo68, liberator (#24)

I do disagree with your statements. You spend 95% of your posts telling us that all the GOP candidates are bunk; 4% of the time telling us the GOP is just like the Dims; and about a mere 1% of the time mentioning Obolo and the Clintoons and the other overt Marxists.

I also agree with this assessment... It's 100% spot on.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-17   17:28:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: SOSO, redleghunter, A K A Stone, CZ82, Stoner, Bob Celeste (#60)

I have no reasonable explanation for that other than perhaps by chance.

Come on, SOSO -- "chance"?? Coincidence??

NO such thing exists at that level of influence and power.

Are you saying that the U.S. is controlled by a cabal of Catholics and Jews?

Yes, ostensibly -- although, these ghouls are "Catholic and Jews" IN NAME ONLY; The reality: They are Secular Humanists wearing masks.

Moreover, these political allies (who join Atheists, New Agers, and Greens) have been allies of convenience with a shared agenda. Their goal (since post WWII) has ALWAYS been to remove fundamental Christianity (disciples of Sola Scriptura) and its tenets from positions of power in order to usher in their globalist One World Gvt.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:35:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#62)

Let me clarify; "There is NO way (even IF there are stats that support that "92%" number ARE "CHRISTIAN.")

Now MY definition of "Christian" is probably NOT going to coincide with yours, SOSO.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: redleghunter, Justified, tomder55 (#25)

Did not waste my money on that movie. Another Hollyweird hack job.

Bible revisionism. And yet how many naive and well-intended fall for it? This stuff isn't Cecil B. DeMille; It's fouled contrived garbage belched out of the perverted boweled of militant homosexual, atheist Hollywood.

Yes indeed the Pope should know man did not create this world. We are subject to the laws established by our Creator. To think we have 'climate change' all figured out with about 100 years of data is insane.

Amen!

THIS Pope is as much an authority on science -- as well as the word of God -- as 0blabla is an authority on the Constitution. Coincidence??

The day BOTH these frauds are dismissed is a blessed day.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:45:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#29)

Be mindful of THIS disclaimer noted by the polling company and "religion" statistics:

Although identifying as religiously unaffiliated does not necessarily mean one is atheist, politicians may be wary about such an association. About half of Americans (53%) say they would be less likely to support an atheist for president.

So in other words, politicians most likely lie about their "religious affiliation " and pencil in "Christian" when they are NOT. No big surprise there.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: redleghunter, SOSO, A K A Stone (#30)

They sure don't legislate according to their Christian ideals/worldview.

No they don't.

So are they lying to themselves? Their constituents? God? Or...ALL of us??

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: SOSO, CZ82 (#31) (Edited)

As I stated, the justices of the Supreme Court are not elected but appointed by elected representatives of We The People (POTUS propose, Congress disposes).

No, SC Justices are appointed by PRESIDENTS and their respective cabals and staffs based on nothing BUT shameless potential corruptible principles. Congress is then bribed, coerced, or otherwise shamed into approving said appointments.

You're welcome.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:54:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: A K A Stone, SOSO, redleghunter (#32)

Every democrat that is in favor of abortion is not a christian.

Amen.

On the position of abortion, its support provides a telling litmus test of "Christian/NON-Christian."

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   17:58:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: SOSO, redleghunter (#33)

You fail to realize that "THEY" are what pass for mainstream Christians these days and have a different view of the tenets of Christianity than you or I. I include the Pope in the current mainstream category.

"Mainstream" Christianity is a compromised river of polluted Christianity diverted to Hell.

Christian traditionalism is all but dead save in small enclaves.

Agree.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   18:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Liberator, SOSO, redleghunter (#43)

I'm pretty sure we had the discussion before the 2014 elections so I know the numbers have changed somewhat, just not sure by how many.

Just because someone claims to be Catholic, Baptist etc, etc, doesn't mean they actually are, most of them probably pick/say what they think their constituency will vote for.

I remember that when you enlisted in the military and they asked you what religion you were and you didn't know or didn't care to share, you automatically became a PROTESTANT and that is what went on your Dog Tags!!!

So I guess my question is would a truly religious person do the things our politicians do with legislation that only benefit themselves and their ambition for power??? (They're knowingly screwing their constituency/fellow man all so they can feel good about themselves). I was under the impression that the word of God meant you are supposed to act in a way that benefits everyone??

If this isn't true then there are a lot of people ignoring their faith by voting for these jokers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-17   18:07:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#36)

The fact is that over 90% of Congress identify themself as Christian.

Bruce Jenner "identifies" as a "woman"; There's white NAACP leader who now "identifies" as "black." Suddenly down is up and wrong is right?

Congress (as a group) is demonstratively un-"Christian."

You unilateally changed the discussion by introducing yor biases and beliefs.

"Biases and beliefs" based upon scriptural truths are what traditionally have guided us to discerned right from wrong in THIS country. Am I wrong?

Now that the truth is blurred by personal "identification," and truth as well as "right and wrong" is now relative. No wonder this nation swirls us down the john like yesterday's morning deuce.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   18:10:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: CZ82 (#72)

I'm pretty sure we had the discussion before the 2014 elections so I know the numbers have changed somewhat, just not sure by how many.

Just because someone claims to be Catholic, Baptist etc, etc, doesn't mean they actually are, most of them probably pick/say what they think their constituency will vote for.

Yup, I think you're right on the content of that discussion.

On the subject of "religious affiliation," it means NOTHING these days. Any "Christians" who voted for 0blabla, Klinton, or Pelosi are only kidding/lying to themselves.

I remember that when you enlisted in the military and they asked you what religion you were and you didn't know or didn't care to share, you automatically became a PROTESTANT and that is what went on your Dog Tags!!!

Hmmm....You've seen those crosses at the cemetery at Normandy? Naturally, you think, "Wow -- sooo many Christians!" Well...God only knows.

I guess my question is would a truly religious person do the things our politicians do with legislation that only benefit themselves and their ambition for power???

Great, simple question and litmus test for integrity. Answer: NO.

(They're knowingly screwing their constituency/fellow man all so they can feel good about themselves). I was under the impression that the word of God meant you are supposed to act in a way that benefits everyone??

Yep. demonstrate a "love of fellow man." NOT betrayal. But again -- since these days people shamelessly redefine reality, "good" can be redefined." This as they who lord over us sell us out in broad daylight. Arrogantly. Spitefully. WITH malice and dishonorably. (Now whether by 11:59 they've repented, again, God only knows.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-17   18:22:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Liberator, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#48)

Comparing McStain to Cruz is insane.

Like Obama, they're both foreign born and ineligible to be president of the US.

At least McCain had two US citizen parents, whereas Rafael only had an American mother. Raffie Sr. didn't bother to become a US citizen until around 2005. He was in no hurry to renounce his allegiance to Fidel and the Communist party. Teddy Cruz is doubly ineligible like Obama, foreign parent and foreign born.

Don't worry the Democrats don't give a damn about the Constitution either, so that old thing won't stop anyone from becoming president of this NWO banana republic.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-17   18:34:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: hondo68 (#75)

Like Obama, they're both foreign born and ineligible to be president of the US.

According to Hondopey, not the constitution. A Servicemember who is stationed overseas and has a kid. That kid isn't eligible to be President.

But a wetback who comes here and squats a kid out. That kid is eligible in your twisted mind.

According to the constitution. McCain is certainly eligible. His parents were both Americans you moron.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-17   18:53:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: A K A Stone, what a maroon (#76) (Edited)

you moron

McCain's birth certificate says "Panama" because he was born there. Duhh!

George Romney's BC says "Mexico" because he was born there, of two US citizen parents. Even the GOP wouldn't let him run for president in '68, Nixon won instead.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-17   19:16:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: hondo68 (#77)

Yawn. Hillary loves you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-17   19:20:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Liberator, hondo68, redleghunter, A K A Stone (#74)

I notice this as top item on Drudge now, suggesting a daft old commie pope in craven pursuit of the world's approval but with the wool getting pulled over his eyes by liberal cardinals at the Vatican.


CONFIDENCE IN RELIGION HITS NEW LOW

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-17   19:46:07 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: TooConservative, Liberator (#79)

Liberator asked a good question... why was the other Pope replaced while he's still alive? Something fishy, for sure.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-17   20:56:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: hondo68 (#77)

George Romney's BC says "Mexico" because he was born there, of two US citizen parents. Even the GOP wouldn't let him run for president in '68, Nixon won instead.

That may have just been a convenient excuse. Remember,Romney is the guy that bankrupted American Motors.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-17   20:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: hondo68, Liberator (#80)

Liberator asked a good question... why was the other Pope replaced while he's still alive? Something fishy, for sure.

He claimed failing health and feeling unable to lead the church.

It does happen, has happened many times in history. You notice he's not very visible these days outside a rare sighting at a mass. My guess is that he got an Alzheimers diagnoses and stepped down.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-17   21:05:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Liberator, A K A Stone (#73)

"Biases and beliefs" based upon scriptural truths are what traditionally have guided us to discerned right from wrong in THIS country. Am I wrong?

"Suddenly down is up and wrong is right?" {as a result of biases and beliefs}

Are you wrong? To which of your statements are you referring?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-17   23:55:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Liberator (#73)

"Biases and beliefs" based upon scriptural truths are what traditionally have guided us to discerned right from wrong in THIS country.

You mean "the right thing" as in the original U.S.Consitution which allowed slavery and prohibited women from voting?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-17   23:57:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Liberator, domer (#74)

Yep. demonstrate a "love of fellow man." NOT betrayal. But again -- since these days people shamelessly redefine reality, "good" can be redefined." This as they who lord over us sell us out in broad daylight. Arrogantly. Spitefully. WITH malice and dishonorably. (Now whether by 11:59 they've repented, again, God only knows.)

That's the biggest reason they want to do away with morality as we now know it, so nobody will hold them responsible for their actions.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-18   6:58:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Liberator (#57)

Pope Benny was made "an offer" he couldn't refuse.

:)

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   9:49:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Liberator (#66)

THIS Pope is as much an authority on science -- as well as the word of God -- as 0blabla is an authority on the Constitution. Coincidence??

An analogy you will NEVER see on an SAT exam:)

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   11:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Liberator, SOSO, A K A Stone, GarySpFc, BobCeleste (#68)

They sure don't legislate according to their Christian ideals/worldview.

No they don't.

So are they lying to themselves? Their constituents? God? Or...ALL of us??

Well the ones who run on Christian worldview values should be voting that way. Period. And I am not talking about theocracy here. I'm talking about promoting the Christian worldview of morals and life issues.

Yet there are those who say they are Christian but apply compartmentalization.

Compartmentalization is an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person's having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves.

Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self states.

For example, the politician who professes being a Christian yet is pro-choice and uses the excuse that they 'cannot impose their moral standards on others.' Yet they vote for pro-choice type legislation or are 'indifferent' to the issue.

Such an approach can be explained as someone who is a new Christian and still developing their worldview; are not familiar with the Scriptures and are beginning their discipleship. Such need our prayers, their church teachers and pastors to lead them to the truth.

On the other hand you have those who self identify with a Christian worldview yet have been vocal advocates for abortion and have a voting history which is pro-choice. Such is the example of compartmentalization. Or worse open deception.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   11:49:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Liberator, A K A Stone, GarySpFc (#70)

On the position of abortion, its support provides a telling litmus test of "Christian/NON-Christian."

I give consideration (as I mentioned in a previous post) of the spiritual maturity of a new born again believer. Yes there is a transformation of heart and mind, but some of our old understandings and ways must be 'worked out' in the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Proper personal study, prayer and growth in the faith along with proper church discipleship and mentorship leads a new believer to the truths of God.

This is why you see quite a few young in age or new adult Christians grapple with issues such as abortion. Some have been programmed from childhood outside of God's Truth.

So the above I would consider before applying the litmus paper:)

And we should always remember, even the most hardened pro abort types like Nancy Pelosi by God's Grace and for His Glory can become a child of God. God works wonders and usually on the most hard cases...Saul of Tarsus included in that as well.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   12:10:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Liberator, SOSO (#71)

"Mainstream" Christianity is a compromised river of polluted Christianity diverted to Hell.

Matthew 7:13-14King James Version (KJV)

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   12:13:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: A K A Stone (#34)

She isn't a christian. Give me a break.

Human?

And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-06-18   12:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: CZ82, Liberator, SOSO (#72)

So I guess my question is would a truly religious person do the things our politicians do with legislation that only benefit themselves and their ambition for power??? (They're knowingly screwing their constituency/fellow man all so they can feel good about themselves). I was under the impression that the word of God meant you are supposed to act in a way that benefits everyone??

If this isn't true then there are a lot of people ignoring their faith by voting for these jokers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Such wisdom from an old AF NCO! You hit that one out of the ball park.

So yes, following Christ is NOT about SELF.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   13:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Liberator, redleghunter (#71)

"Mainstream" Christianity is a compromised river of polluted Christianity diverted to Hell.

Bravo. Well stated.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-18   13:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: TooConservative (#79)

Wearing the 'white' version of the Emperor Palpatine garb to boot.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-18   13:41:10 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: CZ82, Liberator, redleghunter (#72)

So I guess my question is would a truly religious person do the things our politicians do with legislation that only benefit themselves and their ambition for power???

This is really a silly question. Of course they would at times. We all would at times. That is becuase we are all less than perfect and are all sinners. Fortunately for us one stumble doesn't define the entirety of our relationship with God. He forgives those that truly repent in their heart, even if we make the same stumble over and over and over again and sincerely repent.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-18   14:00:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: SOSO (#95)

This is really a silly question.

Why? This is like saying integrity means nothing.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-18   17:49:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: SOSO, redleghunter, Liberator (#95)

That is becuase we are all less than perfect and are all sinners. Fortunately for us one stumble doesn't define the entirety of our relationship with God. He forgives those that truly repent in their heart, even if we make the same stumble over and over and over again and sincerely repent.

Sounds like someone is trying to prop themselves up even though they know they aren't a good person. So they lie to themselves and everyone else to make themselves feel good about themselves.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-18   17:55:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: CZ82 (#96)

This is really a silly question.

Why? This is like saying integrity means nothing.

I explained why. It's because we all are sinners. The real question is do we recognize and repent for our sins. I can't believe that you do not understand that "real" Christians sin, usually a lot over the course of they life time.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-18   19:59:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: CZ82 (#97)

That is becuase we are all less than perfect and are all sinners. Fortunately for us one stumble doesn't define the entirety of our relationship with God. He forgives those that truly repent in their heart, even if we make the same stumble over and over and over again and sincerely repent. Sounds like someone is trying to prop themselves up even though they know they aren't a good person. So they lie to themselves and everyone else to make themselves feel good about themselves.

It would be awfully unChristian like for that someone to call you a totally delusional prick.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-18   20:00:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: SOSO (#99)

I wasn't referring to you so don't take it personally.

So what you are saying it's alright to be a sinner and as long as you keep apologizing for those sins (what's the idiom for that "lie like an old rug") that you won't be held responsible for those sins?? (Isn't that a good definition of the word delusional)??

I guess I'm not as forgiving as you cause I feel people should be held responsible for their actions.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-19   1:03:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: CZ82 (#100)

Repentance means turning away.

So I see what you are saying.

But a repentant heart is also a gift of God's Grace. Without God transforming the heart and mind of the sinner, a person is incapable of satisfying Him. Only The Son of God was a Sacrifice pleasing to The Father.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-19   1:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: redleghunter, SOSO (#101)

50 years ago I might have been able to grasp that concept but nowadays not so much, and it seems to be getting exponentially worse by the day.

So I wonder if guys like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot repented right at the end and were forgiven??

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-19   1:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: CZ82 (#102)

Jesus Christ pardoned the criminal on the cross next to him.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-19   17:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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