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Title: Accidental Shootings More than Double After Cops Purchase New Guns with No Safety
Source: Free Thought Project
URL Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/co ... -department-takes-saftey-guns/
Published: Jun 16, 2015
Author: John Vibes
Post Date: 2015-06-16 09:49:44 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1135
Comments: 17

Two years ago, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s department equipped their officers with guns that were less safe, and unsurprisingly the amount of accidental gunshots has more than doubled.

Prior to the change in weapons, the county only had roughly 12 accidents per year, while now there are at least 30.

The new gun, the Smith & Wesson M&P9, is not fitted with a safety mechanism to prevent accidents, and the trigger is extremely sensitive, but police say that the new guns are “easier to shoot.”

The police department insists that this problem could be solved by more training, but many critics are saying that the change in firearms is a dangerous move.

“I don’t think, with the amount of training most agencies have, that a gun that has so few tolerances for mistakes is the best choice,” Bob Owens, editor of BearingArms.com told the LA Times.

However, many police officers are happy with their new ability to fire their weapons easier.

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“At first, I thought, ‘No way, I’m keeping my Beretta forever. Then I started shooting, and it’s a lot nicer. I can shoot better, and I’m more confident,” Sgt. Mike Rafter, a police firearms instructor told reporters.

In one incident last year, a police officer even shot himself in the leg while taking off his seatbelt to exit his vehicle. That accidental shooting was one of 30 that occurred in the year of 2014.

The LA Times Reports:

Another accidentally fired a bullet in a restroom stall. A third deputy stumbled over a stroller in a closet as he was searching for a suspect, squeezing off a round that went through a wall and lodged in a piece of furniture in the next room.

With so many police shootings occurring across the country, both accidental and intentional, police departments should be working on ways to make their weapons safer instead of more dangerous.

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#1. To: Deckard (#0) (Edited)

"The new gun, the Smith & Wesson M&P9, is not fitted with a safety mechanism to prevent accidents"

Well, they can forget the concealed carry market. Who's going to put a cocked and loaded semi-auto in their waistband with a 5-lb trigger pull and no safety?

With no safety, at least allow a de-cock so the first round requires a 10-12 pound pull. Better to have gone with the Sig P226 or Beretta 92FS which are DA/SA -- and are respected weapons.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   10:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: misterwhite (#1)

Well, they can forget the concealed carry market. Who's going to put a cocked and loaded semi-auto in their waistband with a 5-lb trigger pull and no safety?

With no safety, at least allow a de-cock so the first round requires a 10-12 pound pull. Better to have gone with the Sig P226 or Beretta 92FS which are DA/SA -- and are respected weapons.

I've carried a Glock with no external "manual safety lever" (it has three internal safeties) for over 10 years now, fully loaded and one in the chamber, on duty and everyday in retirement. The gun is equipped with a 5.5 pound trigger... and I've never had a problem with the gun accidentally discharging. The greatest safety is your brain and strong hand index finger. Just remember the 4 basic rules of firearm safety... one is: keep your trigger finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-16   10:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Deckard (#0)

" Accidental Shootings More than Double After Cops Purchase New Guns with No Safety "

" The new gun, the Smith & Wesson M&P9 ". Hmmmmm. Don't hear of this problem about Glock's. I own three of them, and no problem. I have a couple friends with the M&P, and they love them. I read a review of the M&P in American Rifleman, and sounded good. Odd. Without knowing the details of each incident, difficult to decide if it is a mechanical problem, or training problem.

Personally, I love Smith & Wesson revolvers. The only semi Smith I like is the S&W 1911.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-16   10:38:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GrandIsland (#2) (Edited)

You're trained, you practice, and you carry outside the waistband. If everyone was like you, articles like this wouldn't exist.

I favor a revolver for inside-the-waistband concealed carry despite the fact that it has no safety. But it does have a 10-12 lb trigger pull.

If forced to carry a semi-auto, I'd want a de-cocker.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   10:47:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Stoner (#3)

The new gun, the Smith & Wesson M&P9 ". Hmmmmm. Don't hear of this problem about Glock's. I own three of them, and no problem. I have a couple friends with the M&P, and they love them. I read a review of the M&P in American Rifleman, and sounded good. Odd. Without knowing the details of each incident, difficult to decide if it is a mechanical problem, or training problem.

After any decent investigation, you will find every AD was caused by shooter error. Period.

Revolvers had no safeties... all AD's were still handler error.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-16   10:51:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: misterwhite (#4) (Edited)

You're trained, you practice, and you carry outside the waistband.

I carry a full loaded G30 INSIDE my waistband, regardless of what I'm wearing, inside a Galco KingTuk holster. I only open carried while on duty. I even carry with shorts and a tank top on... You'll never know I'm carrying.

But yes, I have thousands of hours of training and I'm a certified firearms instructor and Glock & Remington armorer

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-16   10:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stoner (#3)

"Don't hear of this problem about Glock's. I own three of them, and no problem."

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   11:03:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite (#7)

That moron put his trigger finger inside the trigger gaurd, causing an AD.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-16   11:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: GrandIsland (#5)

" After any decent investigation, you will find every AD was caused by shooter error. Period. "

I would say you are correct.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-16   11:07:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Stoner (#3)

"Without knowing the details of each incident, difficult to decide if it is a mechanical problem, or training problem."

It's the light trigger pull. Granted, you're not supposed to have your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot. But if you do the heavy trigger pull IS your safety.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   11:08:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: GrandIsland (#8)

"That moron put his trigger finger inside the trigger gaurd, causing an AD."

A safety hasn't yet been invented for that guy.

Without a mechanical safety, my point is that a heavy trigger pull IS the safety even if your finger is inside the trigger guard. Or if the trigger snags on your clothing. Or if your two-year-old reaches into your purse.

No, these things shouldn't happen to begin with. But that's why they call them "accidents". I'm saying if and when they do, you're better off with a heavy trigger pull.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   11:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: misterwhite (#10)

" you're not supposed to have your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot "

And if you do, that would be "Shooter Error"

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-16   11:18:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#7) (Edited)

I love that vid, was thinking about posting it a few days back.

I like the longer version, where he hobbles around and proceeds to demonstrate an AK rifle and the kids start screaming at him to "put it down!". LOL

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-16   11:31:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: misterwhite (#11)

No, these things shouldn't happen to begin with. But that's why they call them "accidents". I'm saying if and when they do, you're better off with a heavy trigger pull.

My training and research always leads me to this conclusion, you're always better off with the trigger pull that comes stock. For public use, all Glocks come standard with a 5.5 pound trigger pull. Though I'm certified to install a lighter trigger, I'd never do it for any money.

My son, who doesn't have the training and experience I do, carries his G27 without one in the chamber. I don't agree with his methodology... but if he feels safer that way... so be it. Just as long as he remembers to draw, chamber a round and fire, during a deadly force situation. Some, under stress, won't. They'll pull on an empty chamber.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-16   11:38:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#13)

"I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry this -- BLAM!

You can't make this stuff up.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   11:39:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: GrandIsland (#14)

My son, who doesn't have the training and experience I do, carries his G27 without one in the chamber.

Me too. As a cop, you necessarily have a different outlook and were expected to carry ready-to-fire to protect yourself or the public.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-16   11:44:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: GrandIsland (#14)

I consider 5.5 pounds to be a light trigger pull. Less than that, a hair trigger.

Don't get me wrong. I love a light trigger. I just want to be alive and whole when I pull it.

A DA/SA seems to be the best compromise for a semi-auto.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-16   11:45:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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