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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture”
Source: Liberty Blitzkrieg
URL Source: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/0 ... ght-of-civil-asset-forfeiture/
Published: Jun 4, 2015
Author: Michael Krieger
Post Date: 2015-06-05 10:21:58 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 39145
Comments: 215

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

– From the Wall Street Journal article: Efforts to Curb Asset Seizures by Law Enforcement Hit Headwinds

googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1403197269028-0'); });

The fact that civil asset forfeiture continues to exist across the American landscape despite outrage and considerable media attention, is as good an example as any as to how far fallen and uncivilized our so-called “society” has become. It also proves the point demonstrated in a Princeton University study that the U.S. is not a democracy, and the desires of the people have no impact on how the country is governed.

Civil asset forfeiture was first highlighted on these pages in the 2013 post, Why You Should Never, Ever Drive Through Tenaha, Texas, in which I explained:

In a nutshell, civil forfeiture is the practice of confiscating items from people, ranging from cash, cars, even homes based on no criminal conviction or charges, merely suspicion. This practice first became widespread for use against pirates, as a way to take possession of contraband goods despite the fact that the ships’ owners in many cases were located thousands of miles away and couldn’t easily be prosecuted. As is often the case, what starts out reasonable becomes a gigantic organized crime ring of criminality, particularly in a society where the rule of law no longer exists for the “elite,” yet anything goes when it comes to pillaging the average citizen.

One of the major reasons these programs have become so abused is that the police departments themselves are able to keep much of the confiscated money. So they actually have a perverse incentive to steal. As might be expected, a program that is often touted as being effective against going after major drug kingpins, actually targets the poor and disenfranchised more than anything else.

Civil asset forfeiture is state-sanctioned theft. There is no other way around it. The entire concept violates the spirit of the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments to the Constitution. In case you have any doubt:

The 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 6th Amendment: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Civil asset forfeiture is a civil rights issue, and it should be seen as such by everyone. Just because it targets the entire population as opposed to a specific race, gender or sexual orientation doesn’t make it less important.

The problem with opposition in America today is that people aren’t seeing modern battle lines clearly. The greatest friction and abuse occurring in these United States today comes from the corporate-fascist state’s attack against average citizens. It doesn’t matter what color or gender you are. If you are weak, poor and vulnerable you are ripe for the picking. Until people see the battle lines clearly, it will be very difficult to achieve real change. Most people are divided and conquered along their superficial little tribal affiliations, and they completely miss the bigger picture to the peril of society. Which is why women will support Hillary just because she’s a woman, not caring in the least that she is a compromised, corrupt oligarch stooge.

In case you have any doubt about how little your opinion matters when it comes to the rights of police to rob you blind, read the following excerpts from the Wall Street Journal:

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Read that sentence over and over again until you get it. This is a free country?

Critics have taken aim at the confiscatory powers over concerns that authorities have too much latitude and often too strong a financial incentive when deciding whether to seize property suspected of being tied to criminal activity.

But after New Mexico passed a law this spring hailed by civil-liberties groups as a breakthrough in their effort to rein in states’ forfeiture programs, prosecutor and police associations stepped up their own lobbying campaign, warning legislators that passing such laws would deprive them of a potent crime-fighting tool and rip a hole in law-enforcement budgets.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

“What happened in those states is a testament to the power of the law-enforcement lobby,” said Scott Bullock, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning advocacy group that has led a push for laws giving property owners more protections. 

It seems the only people in America without a powerful lobby group are actual American citizens. See: Charting the American Oligarchy – How 0.01% of the Population Contributes 42% of All Campaign Cash

Prosecutors say forfeiture laws help ensure that drug traffickers, white-collar thieves and other wrongdoers can’t enjoy the fruits of their misdeeds and help curb crime by depriving criminals of the “tools” of their trade. Under federal law and in many states, a conviction isn’t required.

“White-collar thieves,” they say. Yet I haven’t seen a single bank executive’s assets confiscated. Rather, they received taxpayer bailout funds with which to pay themselves record bonuses after wrecking the global economy. Don’t forget:

The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally

In Texas, lawmakers introduced more than a dozen bills addressing forfeiture during this year’s legislative session, which ended Monday. Some would either force the government to meet a higher burden of proof or subject forfeiture programs to more stringent financial disclosure rules and audits. 

But only one bill, which law-enforcement officials didn’t object to, ultimately passed. It requires the state attorney general to publish an annual report of forfeited funds based on data submitted by local authorities. That information, at the moment, is only accessible through freedom-of-information requests.

This is what a corporate-statist oligarchy looks like.

Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, said local enforcement officers and prosecutors “educated their legislators about how asset forfeiture really works in Texas.”

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan last month vetoed a bill that would, among other things, prohibit the state from turning over seized property to the federal government unless the owner has been charged with a federal crime or gives consent.

Remember, the terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Prosecutors said the Tenaha episode was an isolated breakdown in the system. “Everybody knows there are bad eggs out there,” Karen Morris, who supervises the Harris County district attorney’s forfeiture unit, told Texas lawmakers at a hearing this spring. “But we don’t stop prosecuting people for murder just because some district attorneys have made mistakes.”

When police aren’t out there stealing your hard earned assets without a trial or charges, they can often be found pounding on citizens for kicks. I came across the following three headlines this morning alone as I was the scanning news.

Cop Exonerated After Being Caught on Video Brutally Beating A Tourist Who Asked For A Tampon

Kids in Police-Run Youth Camp Allegedly Beaten, Threatened By Cops

Florida Cop Charged With On-Duty Child Abuse; Suspended With Pay

This is not what freedom looks like.

For related articles, see:

The DEA Strikes Again – Agents Seize Man’s Life Savings Under Civil Asset Forfeiture Without Charges

Asset Forfeiture – How Cops Continue to Steal Americans’ Hard Earned Cash with Zero Repercussions

Quote of the Day – An Incredible Statement from the City Attorney of Las Cruces, New Mexico

“Common People Do Not Carry This Much U.S. Currency…” – This is How Police Justify Stealing American Citizens’ Money

In Liberty, Michael Krieger

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#1. To: Deckard (#0)

" Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture” "

OK, they raid a warehouse full of illegal drugs, stolen cars, etc, and besides all that, they find cash, and seize it. I can see that.

But the instances where cash, or other property is taken from a citizen, that is not charged, or ever found guilty of a crime, in those instances, I think asset forfeiture is absolutely wrong. That to me is simply theft, plain & simple.

It is just like in the feudal times where the ruling class could do anything & everything they wanted to, simply because they had the power (weapons) to do so.

Another example would be in occupied Europe, Nazis could do anything they wanted, and again, the peons could not stop them.

I know there are those that are fully in favor of civil asset forfeiture, in any case. Those people are sowing bad seeds!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-05   11:14:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Stoner (#1)

"But the instances where cash, or other property is taken from a citizen, that is not charged, or ever found guilty of a crime, in those instances, I think asset forfeiture is absolutely wrong."

All they have to do is show where the money came from. I could do that. You could do that.

A criminal can't. And if law enforcement had enough evidence, they'd seize it under criminal asset forfeiture, not civil.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   11:19:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Stoner (#1)

It is just like in the feudal times where the ruling class could do anything & everything they wanted to, simply because they had the power (weapons) to do so.

Another example would be in occupied Europe, Nazis could do anything they wanted, and again, the peons could not stop them.

Good analogy - that's exactly what Amerika has become.

The reason the cops and prosecutors are putting up a fight against reforming these laws is because they want the easy money.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   11:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: misterwhite (#2)

" if law enforcement had enough evidence, they'd seize it under criminal asset forfeiture, not civil. "

So, if LE comes across a citizen that has cash on them, and the LE takes it, but never charges the citizen, are you OK with that?

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-05   11:45:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Deckard (#0)

A PATHETIC violation by those sworn to uphold the Constitution and serve & protect the people!

patriot wes  posted on  2015-06-05   12:05:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Deckard (#0)

rip a hole in law-enforcement budgets

They have their priorities in order

A Pole  posted on  2015-06-05   12:06:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: misterwhite (#2)

All they have to do is show where the money came from.

Empty your pockets! Where did you get this 100 bucks?

A Pole  posted on  2015-06-05   12:10:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Deckard (#0)

Bitching and moaning about this on LF accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you have serious convictions, then you can do almost anything you put your mind to and stop it.

“Praise be” (I borrowed that from you) … you can change the law. It may take some effort, but changing a law through the democratic process is one of the basic rights as a citizen.

Go for it…

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   12:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: patriot wes (#5)

A PATHETIC violation by those sworn to uphold the Constitution and serve & protect the people!

Cops have their own Bill of Rights.

The U.S. Constitution they use as toilet paper.

In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   13:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Gatlin, Operation 40 (#9)

you can change the law.

Kinda tough when the very criminals who involve themselves in highway robbery are doing whatever they can to keep their cash cow alive.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   13:35:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Deckard (#10)

Kinda tough when

Nothing is too rough for a true fighter, but of course it always is for a candy ass.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   13:53:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Gatlin (#11)

Your "Gatlin prostrates himself before a cop" story on the other thread was sickening, I'm surprised that you didn't offer the motorcycle cop a blowjob.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   14:06:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A Pole (#7)

"Empty your pockets! Where did you get this 100 bucks?"

OK. Now I understand why you're so upset about civil asset forfeiture.

You think cops are walking up to random citizens, asking where the money in their pockets came from, then stealing it.

If you think that, then you have every right to be upset. Write your Congressman, tell him what you told me, and say, "No more of this!"

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   14:31:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Deckard (#10)

"Kinda tough when the very criminals who involve themselves in highway robbery are doing whatever they can to keep their cash cow alive."

Well, they're not going to do without. If we stop seizing the money from criminals, the local taxing authorities will simply raise property taxes an equal amount.

Write your representative. Tell him to raise your taxes rather than taking the money from criminals. You have principles, dammit!

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   14:35:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Stoner (#4)

"So, if LE comes across a citizen that has cash on them, and the LE takes it, but never charges the citizen, are you OK with that?"

Refer to my post #13.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   14:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Deckard (#0)

The cops confiscate your 12 pack on the porch again?

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-05   14:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#15)

" So, if LE comes across a citizen that has cash on them, and the LE takes it, but never charges the citizen, are you OK with that?"

Refer to my post #13. "

What I thought. You are OK with theft by govt.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-05   14:49:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Stoner (#17)

"What I thought. You are OK with theft by govt."

Write your representative and tell him you don't want cops coming up to citizens with cash and taking it.

I'm sure he'll get right on that.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   14:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#16)

"The cops confiscate your 12 pack on the porch again?"

Yeah. Deckard couldn't remember how it got there. Or how he paid for it. Or if he paid for it.

But he does know he's got rights.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-05   14:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: redleghunter (#16)

Funny, although rather pathetic in a way.

I'll just add you to the list of those who support the arbitrary theft of cash from citizens simply because "they're cops and they can".

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   15:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Deckard (#20)

LOL it was supposed to be funny.

On a serious note...all these small town or small city cops need is a good old dose of a New York 'ambulance chaser' lawyer to set things right.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-05   15:38:02 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Deckard, Moderator X (#12)

Your "Gatlin prostrates himself before a cop" story on the other thread was sickening,
I'm surprised that you didn't offer the motorcycle cop a blowjob.

Rather than carrying on an intelligent discussion….you must resort to this?

A obscene remark does nothing to inspire a serious debate.

And you have the audacity to call yourself a Christian….SHAME ON YOU!

Moderator X: "Your comment is not conductive (sic) to civil discussion.”
      http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=39629&Disp=44#C44.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   15:39:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Gatlin (#22)

A obscene remark does nothing to inspire a serious debate.

When have you ever been interested in a "serious debate" leather-boy canary clown?

You deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   15:49:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Deckard (#23)

You deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.
You may of course continue to do that, since that obviously is all you can do.

In the meantime I will continue to intelligently rebut your yellow journalism articles.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   16:49:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Gatlin (#24)

since that obviously is all you can do.

Obviously not - you embody all that is wrong with America - your unabashed fealty to the police state and cult like worship of cops is enough to make liberty-loving Americans spit on you and the rest of your repulsive ilk.

Crouch down and lick the boots of those who enslave you Gatslime.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-05   17:07:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Deckard (#25)

When all you can do, as you have done in your last posts, is resort to personal attacks....you LOSE.

I will only respond to those posts from you in the future that contain an intelligent dialogue.

If you want to gutter-talk, then post to tpaine.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   18:01:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: misterwhite (#13)

So what about $1000 or $2000? Can they take it?

A Pole  posted on  2015-06-05   21:07:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Gatlin (#26)

If you want to gutter-talk, then post to tpaine

You're what? -- Accusing me of talking 'gutter talk'?

You really do need help with your increasing slide into dementia, poor fella.

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   21:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Deckard (#12)

I'm surprised that you didn't offer the motorcycle cop a blowjob.

:(

Moderator X  posted on  2015-06-05   21:31:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Moderator X, Deckard, Gatlin (#29)

:(

Well, tater has shown his true colours on LF by aligning himself with a publickally self-confessed queer, yukon.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   21:42:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Moderator X (#29)

Gatlin (#26) ---- If you want to gutter-talk, then post to tpaine

Unwarranted trolling?

:(

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   21:45:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Moderator X (#29) (Edited)

I'm surprised that you didn't offer the motorcycle cop a blowjob.

:(

I agree, it is a comment to be frowned upon.

I am glad you show disapproval.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   21:49:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Gatlin (#32)

I am glad you show disapproval.

There is plenty of hope for this site... since not one non cop hater here calls names or attacks, and the site owner and moderators I'm sure notice who's DISTRUCTIVE and the true reason normal thinking potential posters will stay clear.

It's pretty sad... but the agenda posters aren't here for discussion. They are here to indoctrinate... and they use Stone to do it. If Stone were to ban them, they'd come right back and treat this site like they do their country... no rules and total anarchy.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:09:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: misterwhite (#13)

You think cops are walking up to random citizens, asking where the money in their pockets came from, then stealing it.

That's what Deckard would like to indoctrinate into the minds of anyone he can get to read his propaganda.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:13:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: GrandIsland (#33)

There is plenty of hope for this site... since not one non cop hater here calls names or attacks, and the site owner and moderators I'm sure notice who's DISTRUCTIVE [sic] and the true reason normal thinking potential posters will stay clear.

What is your reason for posting on an obscure website GI? To tell us that you are a slap-happy lap dawg for government while you collect a stipend for a twenty year "career" about eating donuts and slurping koffee when the kids you were supposed to walk across the school crossguards on a publick street performed the maejiick themselves?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   22:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: GrandIsland (#33)

I am glad you show disapproval.

There is plenty of hope for this site... since not one non cop hater here calls names or attacks, and the site owner and moderators I'm sure notice who's DISTRUCTIVE and the true reason normal thinking potential posters will stay clear.

It's pretty sad... but the agenda posters aren't here for discussion. They are here to indoctrinate... and they use Stone to do it. If Stone were to ban them, they'd come right back and treat this site like they do their country... no rules and total anarchy.

I am glad to see Stone and the Mods strive to make this forum an island of civilized behavior and discourse. This is refreshing in the morass of barbarity that is found on some other internet forums.

It is not difficult to post with respect, understanding, tolerance of difference and sometimes show a sense of humor.

There should be no insults or name-calling and each poster should address fellow posters with respect, or don’t post.

If someone is angry about something and cannot restrain from imprecation, they should step away from the keyboard and go do something else for a while – anything but post.

There is continuing hope for this site. Stone and the Mods are to be complimented.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   22:28:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: buckeroo (#35)

You are the biggest offender of trashing this site up. You don't post a single thing worth while... and most of your posts are disruptive type attacks towards others having a discussion. Deckard is number 2... and let's be honest. If Stone were to ban you, you'd make another ID and treat Stones site like you treat your community... you'll do whatever you like with no rules, laws or limitations for you to live by... because the definition of freedom and liberty in your mind is having more of it than anyone else.

There's a reason why I don't post to you and the other forum criminals... because I refuse to help you trash this site under your anarchist type lifestyle.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:28:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Gatlin (#36)

I am glad to see Stone and the Mods strive to make this forum an island of civilized behavior and discourse. This is refreshing in the morass of barbarity that is found on some other internet forums.

Blah, blah blah... you and "yukon" have sucked the life out of these little web channels.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   22:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: GrandIsland (#37)

Exactly.

I am just a poster without 50,000 primers locked-upped in the home basement collecting mold unlike retired cops whom believe in government.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   22:36:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: GrandIsland (#37) (Edited)

There's a reason why I don't post to you and the other forum criminals... because I refuse to help you trash this site under your anarchist type lifestyle.

I got tired of accidentally running across their posts, so I placed a couple on bozo. Bozo works great and serves the purpose well. I just smile when I seen some missing numbers on a thread.

Edit: I just broke out in a big smile, I noticed #38 and #39 absent when I posted this.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-05   22:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: buckeroo (#38)

Blah, blah blah... you and "yukon" have sucked the life out of these little web channels.

Yukon hasn't posted here is some time now... and you're still dropping your pants and shitting on Stones leg.

Your conduct can't be sugar coated or YELLA'd. You bring to the table zero... and you take from the table everything.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:42:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: GrandIsland, gatlin, misterwhite, Y'ALL (#33)

-- not one non cop hater here calls names or attacks,

You've GOT to be kidding... Calling people here 'paultards', or attacking anyone that disagrees with y'alls version of cop/citizen events is to be seen as acceptable behavior?

--- and the site owner and moderators I'm sure notice who's DISTRUCTIVE and the true reason normal thinking potential posters will stay clear. -- It's pretty sad... but the agenda posters aren't here for discussion.

There you go again, calling names by inferring I and others are 'agenda posters'. If defending our constitution and our republic makes me one, so be it.

They are here to indoctrinate...

Most of us are here to discuss issues. The worst 'agenda' poster here is misterwhite, imho, -- but he, and you, and gatlin, are getting quite a rep for refusing to discuss issues, while hiding behind your bozos.

-- and they use Stone to do it. If Stone were to ban them, they'd come right back and treat this site like they do their country... no rules and total anarchy.

You took good lessons from JR at some point, aye? -- Calm down, Stone can handle this site without help from you three.

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   22:43:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: tpaine (#42)

You are number 3

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:46:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: GrandIsland (#41)

Your conduct can't be sugar coated or YELLA'd. You bring to the table zero... and you take from the table everything.

If I swear to collect a mere government, twenty year stipend of and about doing nothing for society such as yourself, would you like me?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   22:49:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: tpaine (#42)

1) Calling people here 'paultards

2) There you go again, calling names by inferring I and others are 'agenda posters'.

3) Most of us are here to discuss issues.

4) You took good lessons from JR at some point, aye?

Every part of your post is disingenuous.

1) cut and paste one time on this site I called anyone that.

2) Insinuating that someone is an agenda poster is not name calling. If the shoe fits, wear it. You could post about a whole bunch of topics. You don't. OutDamnedSpot is probably the most well rounded poster here. You don't even hold a candle to her or others.

3) Only if we agree with you do you "discuss". Let's be real.

4) I took nothing from Jr. He and his site are inconsequential. Who gives a shit about FR?

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   22:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: buckeroo (#44)

If I swear to collect a mere government, twenty year stipend of and about doing nothing for society such as yourself, would you like me?

Who says I hate you? I don't know you personally. I'd interact with you if you grew up... start there.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: GrandIsland, gatlin, misterwhite, Y'ALL (#43)

buckeroo, You are the biggest offender of trashing this site up. You don't post a single thing worth while... and most of your posts are disruptive type attacks towards others having a discussion. Deckard is number 2..

tpaine You are number 3

I'll match my record here of posting 'worth while' articles against yours any time ..

And I'll admit, --- many of my posts are disruptive type comments towards you, gatlin and misterwhite while you three are making disruptive attacks on our constitutional principles.

And they'll continue, as long as you three refuse to discuss such issues.

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   23:04:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: GrandIsland (#46)

Who says I hate you? I don't know you personally. I'd interact with you if you grew up... start there.

Oh ... Man 'O Man ... if you don't understand the utter disgust I have for publick servants, there is no need for this dialogue.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   23:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: tpaine (#47) (Edited)

And I'll admit, --- many of my posts are disruptive type comments towards you, gatlin and misterwhite while you three are making disruptive attacks on our constitutional principles.

And they'll continue, as long as you three refuse to discuss such issues.

And that's why I see you as an AGENDA poster. It's never been good enough to kindly disagree... you've gotta indoctrinate the only topic you post about.

So... why would I want to tell you 1,000 times that I disagree with your ideology. It gets old. Preach to your own audience. They'll love you for it... but you'd rather disrupt the site.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:10:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeroo (#48)

Oh ... Man 'O Man ... if you don't understand the utter disgust I have for publick servants, there is no need for this dialogue.

Then ignore me or anyone you have disgust for and stop shitting on Stones leg. This site isn't all about you, Deckard and Tpaine.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:12:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: GrandIsland, Deckard, tpaine, AKA Stone (#50)

Then ignore me or anyone you have disgust for and stop shitting on Stones leg.

I won't edit or confine any posts to your personal liking.

This site isn't all about you, Deckard and Tpaine.

How do you really know?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   23:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: buckeroo (#51) (Edited)

This site isn't all about you, Deckard and

How do you really know?

Because contrary to your opinions... neither of you are that important... even tho you all act as though you all are the most important people you know. A liberal trait.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:21:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: GrandIsland (#45)

1) Calling people here 'paultards ----

Every part of your post is disingenuous. ---- 1) cut and paste one time on this site I called anyone that.

Here's the result of a very fast Google search: ----

Say what you will, but it's only PAULTARDs that create threads like this and hack ID's... the ultimate disruption. Fiberator seems to always be in the middle of it. Your ID and your IP address and any address near it should be banned, dipshit. ----- GrandIsland posted on 2012-10-02 12:51:09 ET

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   23:23:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: GrandIsland, Deckard, tpaine (#52)

Because contrary to your opinions... neither of you are that important... even tho you all act as though you all are the most important people you know. A liberal trait.

Are you familiar with the concept of a "paradigm shift?"

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-05   23:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: tpaine (#53)

GrandIsland posted on 2012-10-02 12:51:09 ET

I never poster here in 2012.

More YELLA propaganda. Anything to sell your snake oil.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:33:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: GrandIsland (#49)

And I'll admit, --- many of my posts are disruptive type comments towards you, gatlin and misterwhite while you three are making disruptive attacks on our constitutional principles.

And that's why I see you as an AGENDA poster. It's never been good enough to kindly disagree...

How silly that you should want me to 'kindly disagree' with three disruptive anti- constitutionalists.

... you've gotta indoctrinate the only topic you post about.

I've posted a hell of a lot of articles on many topics. -- You notice my articles on our constitution because you don't like them.

So... why would I want to tell you 1,000 times that I disagree with your ideology. It gets old.

Our constitution, and the fact that to you, it's an 'ideology', never gets old.

Preach to your own audience. They'll love you for it... but you'd rather disrupt the site.

It's amusing that a disruptor like you is so mealey mouthed. Carry on...

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   23:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: tpaine (#56)

I've enabled you two to shit on Stones site long enough. I'll go about ignoring you both again... and I'll let the agenda posters disrupt the site all by themselves.

Carry on.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-05   23:42:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: GrandIsland (#55)

So you posted that 'paultard' comment at LP? -- Big difference, -- if your a silly nitpicker..

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   23:48:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#57)

I'll go about ignoring you both again...

"You can run,but you can't hide."

Who said that?

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-05   23:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: GrandIsland (#57)

and I'll let the agenda posters disrupt the site all by themselves.

Carry on.

Oh, the irony.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-05   23:55:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Gatlin, misterwhite, GrandIsland, hondo68, Operation 40, tpaine, Orwellian Nightmare, Fred Mertzx (#57)

I've enabled you two to shit on Stones site long enough....

Irony there, jackboot?

You and the canary clowns have run roughshod over this site ever since LP closed down.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   0:50:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Gatlin (#32)

You ought to be happy, thanks to you I am limited to 10 posts per day, 200 characters.

The only way you will ever win a debate, silence your critics.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   0:57:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: buckeroo (#30) (Edited)

Well, tater has shown his true colours on LF by aligning himself with a publickally self-confessed queer, yukon.

Apparently Mod X is a Gatlin sycophant.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   0:58:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Deckard (#63)

He is just a better troll than you.

You get way too emotional.

Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-06-06   1:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Dead Culture Watch (#64)

Never thought of myself as a troll. Gatlin is one of those pompous, arrogant know it all clowns with an obsessive authority fetish.

Those folks piss me off.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   1:06:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Deckard (#0)

Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture”

Civil Asset Forfeiture is too often legal jargon relabeling crude theft with an impressive legal- sounding name and groveling before the same thieves that enabled it for legal redress. In such instances it should be corrected with a death sentence.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-06   2:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: tpaine (#59)

"You can run,but you can't hide."

Who said that?

Originally, I believe it was Marine Sniper Carlos Hathcock.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-06   2:38:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Deckard (#65)

You are letting emotion without reason drive you until you lose control and react in a sporadic manner absent of normal common civility.

You need to simply stop allowing your childish instinctual responses to take over to start as a fleeting annoyance and then develop into a full-fledge rage.

You can't get rid of, or avoid, the things or the people that enrage you, nor can you change them, but you can learn to control your reactions.

If you feel that your anger is really out of control, you might consider counseling to learn how to handle it better.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   4:37:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Deckard, GrandIsland (#61)

I've enabled you two to shit on Stones site long enough....
Irony there, jackboot?
You and the canary clowns have run roughshod over this site ever since LP closed down.

Your perception here is not reality. Stone and the Mods will never allow anyone to run roughshod over LF. Civility is part of Stone’s unwritten but often demonstrated code of conduct and a strong pillar of his well-run forum. Stone runs a good forum, stop abusing his hospitality. We are all guests here and there is a common standard of civility that everyone needs to follow. You can be forceful in your exchanges, but you need to treat others with consideration and respect. You can maintain a pleasant environment on the forum if you start behaving politely, calmly and reasonable….even during heated debates.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   5:01:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Deckard (#62)

You ought to be happy, thanks to you I am limited to 10 posts per day, 200 characters.
The only way you will ever win a debate, silence your critics.

Au contraire. I did nothing to you. You must realize that you cannot place the blame on others for the choices you make. Taking responsibility is acknowledging and accepting the choices you have made, the actions you have taken, and the results they have led to. Take responsibility for your actions.

I will be happy when you start displaying a respectful behavior by avoiding personal attacks, slurs and especially profanity in your interactions. Start treating others with civility and respect. You need to stop using LF as your own personal soapbox. There are many other people in the LF community. You post the same or closely similar topic in rapid succession in an attempt to monopolize the dialogue and overpower everyone to subscribe to your personal agenda.

But that is not the problem, that is a consequence of the problem. You have become a belligerent attacker who is not interested in acting civil, all you want to do is win at any cost by beating others into submission. Dominance is your driving force.

You have been afforded time to reflect. Use the time wisely to consider what isn’t working and what you can do right. When you reflect on every aspect of your posting content and techniques, then you can develop a corrective habit that will enable you to continuously improve your life and the way you treat others.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   5:43:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Gatlin (#68)

You can't get rid of, or avoid, the things or the people that enrage you, nor can you change them, but you can learn to control your reactions.

If you feel that your anger is really out of control, you might consider counseling to learn how to handle it better.

Amazing. Watching you lecture the forum on proper behaviour is like Donald Trump giving lessons on how to be humble, or watching Obama explain the importance of always telling the truth.

You are an extraordinary piece of work.

Operation 40  posted on  2015-06-06   6:04:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Operation 40 (#71) (Edited)

It's not unreasonable to expect extraordinary work from someone who has the trusted ability to create it.

I do my best. That my best goes beyond what is usual, regular or established….is a normal course of events for me.

If only Donald Trump or Obama had asked me for guidance, they…

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   6:26:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Operation 40, Gatlin (#71)

I have a funny feeling he's about to end up getting his posting privileges curtailed cause he doesn't know how to act like an adult!

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-06   7:41:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Moderator X, Deckard, Gatlin, Pericles (#29)

I'm surprised that you didn't offer the motorcycle cop a blowjob.

:(

Are you upset cause Deckard mentioned it or that Gatlin didn't offer to do it?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-06   7:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Gatlin (#70)

You ought to be happy, thanks to you I am limited to 10 posts per day, 2

Like most incarcerated criminals or the very liberal millennium generation of today, he blames others for his crimes or misfortunes.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   8:07:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: A Pole (#27)

"So what about $1000 or $2000? Can they take it?"

So you still insist that cops are walking up to random citizens, asking where the $1000 or $2000 in their pockets came from, then stealing it.

Your ignorance about civil asset forfeiture is astounding.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   8:54:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: misterwhite (#76) (Edited)

So you still insist that cops are walking up to random citizens, asking where the $1000 or $2000 in their pockets came from, then stealing it.

If that were the case, I'd have retired 15 years ago AND bought my own political talk forum

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   9:10:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: GrandIsland (#75)

He let his hatred completely take over and become uncontrolled anger..

Old Buddha said that:

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   9:23:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Gatlin (#78)

It's best not to discuss it or bring attention to it. Disruption happened, it was handled and now it's over... time to move on and use this forum for what it's intended to be used for.

I'll be landscaping in my back yard all day. Be on and off. I just finished installing a 16X18 brick patio with a 50 foot walkway. Time to repair the grass around it, and start another small stone patio project that my BBQ grill will sit on.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   9:32:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Fred Mertz, Dead Culture Watch, misterwhite, GrandIsland, Operation 40, tpaine, Orwellian Nightmare, Fred Mertzx, CT k0oKz (#60)

I'll let the agenda posters disrupt the site all by themselves.

GI and Gatlin have quite the conspiracy theory going. Everyone else is an "agenda poster". What they're saying in essence is that they're "Ready for Hillary"!

"A vast right wing conspiracy" ~Hillary Rodham Clinton


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-06   9:43:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: hondo68 (#80) (Edited)

Everyone else is an "agenda poster".

Nowhere have I even insinuated such garbage. Just because you, another AGENDA poster, knows you qualify for the title, you spin my words into a YELLA maze of Deckard like propaganda.

There are many posters here that post for discussion... not to sell their agenda. If you use all the brain cells you've got, you can distinguish between the two. I'll give you a hint... anyone that is offended by the term "agenda poster"... IS PROBABLY ONE. lol

You and your peers out yourselves.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   9:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: misterwhite (#76)

random citizens, asking where the $1000 or $2000 in their pockets

No need. It is enough to tell car dealer on phone or email that you will bring cash. Let this $20K be a surprise for him.

A Pole  posted on  2015-06-06   9:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: hondo68 (#80)

GI and Gatlin have quite the conspiracy theory going. Everyone else is an "agenda poster".

They singled out Deckard and tp. Not "everyone else".

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   9:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: A Pole (#82)

No need. It is enough to tell car dealer on phone or email that you will bring cash. Let this $20K be a surprise for him.

Right. You're in Baltimore and you tell a "car dealer" in Miami that you're bringing $20,000 cash in small bills to buy a "car".

When pulled over for speeding in your rental car, you forget the Miami "car dealer's" name and claim that the $20,000 was collected from "friends". And you can't remember their names either.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   10:09:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Deckard, A K A Stone (#62)

You ought to be happy, thanks to you I am limited to 10 posts per day, 200 characters.

What's up with that? Seems unfair at least in my eyes.

C'mon Pebbles, lighten up.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-06   10:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: misterwhite (#84)

Right. You're in Baltimore and you tell a "car dealer" in Miami that you're bringing $20,000 cash in small bills to buy a "car".

When pulled over for speeding in your rental car, you forget the Miami "car dealer's" name and claim that the $20,000 was collected from "friends". And you can't remember their names either.

They don't post responses towards right or wrong ideology... they've turned into just defending almost all criminal activity. Anarchy.

They know it's wrong and they know the assets seized were obtained through illegal activity... they don't care. It's useless discuss it. Plain and simple.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   10:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite (#86)

They know it's wrong and they know the assets seized were obtained through illegal activity...

If these assets were obtained through illegal activity how come there were no charges, no trial and no convictions for this illegal activity?

Why do you want criminals to go free? Explain please! To get money from them?

A Pole  posted on  2015-06-06   11:47:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Gatlin, Operation 40 (#72)

It's not unreasonable to expect extraordinary work from someone who has the trusted ability to create it.

This is exactly why posters here find you repulsive, you pompous arrogant blowhard.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   12:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Deckard (#88)

Why do you let this bother you SO much?

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   13:11:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: A Pole (#87) (Edited)

"If these assets were obtained through illegal activity how come there were no charges, no trial and no convictions for this illegal activity?"

Because this is a civil trial against the property, not a criminal trial against the person.

As such, the government only needs to show a "preponderance of the evidence" as their burden of proof, not "beyond a reasonable doubt" as in a criminal case.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   13:30:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Deckard, Gatlin (#88)

"... you pompous arrogant blowhard."

Hey, hey. Gatlin is not arrogant.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   13:32:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Fred Mertz (#85)

The way I see it is if 1 gets punished then all 3 should get the same punishment, cause now the other 2 will think they can get away with the same thing again.

I don't know about you but I think everybody is getting kinda tired of hearing about yellow journalism, paultards and not so pristine religious figures incessantly.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-06   13:58:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: misterwhite, Deckard (#91) (Edited)

"... you pompous arrogant blowhard."

Hey, hey. Gatlin is not arrogant.

You are too funny...

Plea bargain?

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   13:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Gatlin, misterwhite, Moderator X (#93)

Funny how Gatlin can post semi-porn and not a word from the canary clan.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   14:18:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: misterwhite (#90)

Because this is a civil trial against the property, not a criminal trial against the person.

No need to educate them. If they can't figure shit out then they have three alternatives....

1) educate themselves

2) continue to ask stupid questions

3) create a conspiracy theory about wide spread corruption as a means to figure out what they don't understand or agree with.

I'm thinking apole will always be a 2 & 3 person.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-06   14:20:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Deckard, misterwhite, Moderator X (#94) (Edited)

Funny how Gatlin can post semi-porn and not a word from the canary clan.

I am sorry, but your post makes absolutely no sense to me….and the reason you would ping Moderator X is not understandable. However, I will reply with a general comment for you to consider. It may help you, and then it may not.

There is always a choice in everything you do in life. A conscious choice I make every single day is to control my mindset as a top priority and then I can easily consider things in perspective to fully realize it’s worth nothing to let anyone or anything upset me.

This actually brings to mind a great quote –
      “Every day brings a choice: to practice stress or to practice peace.” ~Joan Borysenko

Deckard, it is important to not let yourself get so worked up. You can choose to control your negative reactions. Don’t expend energy feeding them. Relax. Realize that life is a very beautiful gift given by God. You should start enjoying it in every possible way instead of always looking for things to gross yourself out about. There is more to life than living with the constant paranoia of conspiracy theories and hate.

I am going to back off our exchanges until you can settle yourself down. I will be pleased to discuss topics with you and I will continue to point out the yellow in the journalism articles you post. I will, however, refrain from responding to your snide remarks.

Happiness is out there, everywhere….let it find you.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   15:13:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: GrandIsland, CZ82, Fred Mertz, Deckard (#95)

3) create a conspiracy theory about....

Create a conspiracy theory about.... creating conspiracy theories. Yeah, that'll work!

You just can't resist the temptation to be a CT freak, can you?


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-06   15:19:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Gatlin (#96) (Edited)

What a liar. you know EXACTLY what you did.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   15:50:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Gatlin, Moderator X (#96) (Edited)

Scroll down to post #46 for Gatlin's fine choice of leather goods...

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...?ArtN

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-06   16:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Gatlin (#96)

"Funny how Gatlin can post semi-porn and not a word from the canary clan.'

You're posting porn and not pinging me? Unforgivable.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-06   18:41:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: misterwhite (#100)

Funny how Gatlin can post semi-porn and not a word from the canary clan.

You're posting porn and not pinging me? Unforgivable.

I am still waiting for "word from the canary clan."

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-06   18:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: misterwhite (#14)

If we stop seizing the money from criminals, the local taxing authorities will simply raise property taxes an equal amount.

Write your representative. Tell him to raise your taxes rather than taking the money from criminals. You have principles, dammit!

Perhaps if the LEOs were not spending much of their time turning over innocent rocks to find loot they would not even be needed, thus reducing the need for so many of them to exist.

Example: Officer Murphy spends X amount of time making sure citizen's money makes its way to the LE office coffers. Many of his buddies also spend X amount of time collecting LEO "tithes". Adding X amount of time up and multiplying by pay rate, perhaps we can just eliminate a couple of LEOs and not have to worry about the budget they took up.

Better yet, if they really needed to raise the taxes, they would have done it already. The reason there is a debate is because of the shell-game they are playing to keep the imaginary budgetary needs afloat.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   0:41:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: GrandIsland (#45)

Every part of your post is disingenuous.

1) cut and paste one time on this site I called anyone that.

>>>>>1) Calling people here 'paultards

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...t.cgi?ArtNum=32479&Disp=1

#21. To: liberator (#0)

The wheelchair Republican, was correct in banning all you trouble making-site disrupters.

Say what you will, but it's only PAULTARDs that create threads like this and hack ID's... the ultimate disruption. Fiberator seems to always be in the middle of it. Your ID and your IP address and any address near it should be banned, dipshit.

GrandIsland posted on 2012-10-02 12:51:09 ET Reply Trace

Challenge Accepted

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   1:01:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: TheFireBert, hondo68, Deckard (#103)

Great job! GI gets slammed as a liar.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-07   1:16:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Fred Mertz, heFireBert, hondo68, Deckard, GrandIsland (#104) (Edited)

Great job! GI gets slammed as a liar.

GrandIsland did NOT lie.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   8:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz (#103) (Edited)

GrandIsland DEFINITELY did NOT post this ON LF!

It was ORIGINALLY posted on LP, then copied and pasted to LF by someone.

Double check and you will find this to be true.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   9:19:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Gatlin (#106)

I was gonna post that... but if the Agenda posters can't understand "ON THIS SITE"... then they ain't worth discussing topics with.

More YELLA garbage.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   9:59:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Gatlin, A K A Stone (#106) (Edited)

Stone, please send me a private message

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   10:07:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Gatlin (#106) (Edited)

#10. To: whyofcourse (#9) (Edited)

Why don't you post it here

OK, will do. It's dopey, but what the heck. It could be called, "BorisY's big cannabis flashback".

It was I who posted what was in my browser cache after the article was deleted at LP. Included in my post #10 are the LP numbers starting from 1 and going up to 68, and the poster's names are in BLACK. After 68 is my name in BLUE (the end of post 10). Then the next post is #11, with the poster's names in blue from there onward.

The ones with the poster's handle in BLACK are from LP.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-07   10:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Gatlin (#106) (Edited)

Double check and you will find this to be true.

Ok, I checked the link again, and sure enough, GI uttered that text (Bold is his words):

The wheelchair Republican, was correct in banning all you trouble making-site disrupters.

Say what you will, but it's only PAULTARDs that create threads like this and hack ID's... the ultimate disruption. Fiberator seems to always be in the middle of it. Your ID and your IP address and any address near it should be banned, dipshit.
It really doesn't matter if he copied and pasted the text from LP. GI did not format the text in a way that indicates that they are not his own words. Besides, GI has a history of this kind of behavior, so it is quite the moot point. He simply issued a challenge, and I accepted. I did not do it to call him out. He did that himself.

It is honorable to stick up for your buddy, but perhaps you should go back and delete the comment that I re-posted before trying to claim it untrue.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   10:49:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: TheFireBert, hondo68, GrandIsland, A K A Stone (#110)

GI only posted that on LP.
He never copied and pasted the LP text.
Hondo did it, see his Post #109.
Study the formatting in your link carefully to see this.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: hondo68 (#109)

It was I who posted what was in my browser cache after the article was deleted at LP.

Wow, no wonder that seemed to be a mess of a thread.

I guess now either GI or Gatlin is going to argue that the text was originally posted on LP instead of LF, thus making the claim "technically" true while ignoring the fact that GI does babble in this type of behavior constantly.

I would not have even responded if I did not experience some of his antics in LP threads myself. GrandIsland, misterwhite, Gatlin, yukon, and many others exhibit the same common behaviors that become quite memorable (and sometimes disgusting for a couple of those screen names).

...unless PAULTARDs hacked his ID, of course! LOL

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   11:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: TheFireBert (#112)

...unless PAULTARDs hacked his ID, of course! LOL

With the password: STERNO

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-07   11:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: TheFireBert. hondo68, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz (#112)

Please don't quibble.
Just graciously admit you made a mistake.
That is the honorable thing to do.
And I sincerely believe you to be an honorable person.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:30:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Deckard, A K A Stone, LF Saboteur (#23)

#23. To: Gatlin (#22)

A obscene remark does nothing to inspire a serious debate.

When have you [Gatlin] ever been interested in a "serious debate" leather-boy canary clown?

Answer: NEVER.

You deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.

Sure, he a discredited fraud who needs to spend a year a psychiatric ward, and but let's not forget...he needs our sympathy.

It's not good news whether Gatlin is just a low-level troll supporting a fascist police state and hating on Christians and liberty...or just doing what he does in his spare time: Being a clownish disruptor (when he's not unhealthily and repeatedly popping Viagra while posting threads on misguided Pastors for the sole purpose of using Liberty's Flame as a G00gle-beacon.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-07   11:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: TheFireBert, Y'ALL (#112)

I guess now either GI or Gatlin is going to argue that the text was originally posted on LP instead of LF, thus making the claim "technically" true while ignoring the fact that GI does babble in this type of behavior constantly.

I would not have even responded if I did not experience some of his antics in LP threads myself. GrandIsland, misterwhite, Gatlin, yukon, and many others exhibit the same common behaviors that become quite memorable (and sometimes disgusting for a couple of those screen names).

...unless PAULTARDs hacked his ID, of course! LOL

TheFireBert

I'd guess that because -- Grandislandan misterwhite, Gatlin, yukon, and many others exhibit the same common behaviors, --- that we should all just assume that they are ALL disruptive troll personas, --- personas probably used by a smaller group of very mentally disturbed individuals.

However, because they are on, occasion, amusing, we should tolerate their idiocies; -- while we spare no effort to make them look as stupid as they are..

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   11:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Gatlin (#114)

...the honorable thing to do.

"Honor"?? Isn't that Kryptonite to you?

Stop making a fool of yourself at an age where you should know better.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-07   11:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Gatlin (#114) (Edited)

I sincerely believe you to be an honorable person.

I sincerely believe you to be an dishonorable (FAKE) persona, based on your posts over the last few years, both here and at LP.

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   11:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Fred Mertz (#113)

Don’t continue to embarrass yourself but trying to hide behind sarcasm.
Just disown your fallacious comment: “Great job! GI gets slammed as a liar.”

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:47:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: tpaine (#118)

What gave you that idea?? :) {chuckle}

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   11:47:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Liberator, Gatlin, Pericles (#115)

Answer: NEVER.

Especially when you embarrass him with another side of the story that proves him wrong, then he puts you on bozo.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   11:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: CZ82 (#121)

{chuckle}

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Gatlin (#122)

{chuckle}

Did I need to specify which logon you use to bozo people?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   12:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Gatlin (#119)

"ON THIS SITE".... No matter how YELLA they spin it... still means POSTED HERE. lol

No need to argue with them... let's all move on. This site needs civility.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   12:43:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: GrandIsland (#124)

--- let's all move on. This site needs civility.

--- Says a notably uncivil disruptor.

Gotta love the chutzpah...

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   12:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: Deckard, Moderator X (#63)

Apparently Mod X is a Gatlin sycophant.

Most moderators on a private, little out of the way and totally obscure place on the Internet have their preferences for viewing comments.

This same scenario happened on John Deere's Liberty Forum; it was perhaps the LARGEST gathering of people on the planet. It is no longer on-line as John died.

But, he tried to administer "like" minds with no clear result other than piles of do-nothing moderators that subdued the information content not recognizing their own bias or prejudice actually operated contrary to idea or concept of the channel. There was little admin about moderators and as a result continuous streaming of complaints with no real improvement about the channel information and data interchange.

I affectionately describe the phenomena as: "cat herding." It can not be done no matter how many moderators attempt to subdue information.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   13:20:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: tpaine (#125)

--- let's all move on.

Gotta love the chutzpah...

LEO's are free to steal whatever they want and call it "asset forfeiture", no wonder the JBT canaries want to "move on".org.

In the old days it was called highway robbery.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-07   14:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: buckeroo, Tin Foilers (#126)

FYI, John Deere was murdered by Prescott Bush in the basement of the Silverado S&L.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-07   14:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Liberator, Deckard, A K A Stone, Tater (#115)

Being a clownish disruptor [gatlin, Tater, etc.] (when he's not unhealthily and repeatedly popping Viagra while posting threads on misguided Pastors for the sole purpose of using Liberty's Flame as a G00gle-beacon.)

I saw a few of these tater threads. But, aren't they designed for an agenda? I was oddly struck when tater was permitted to perform his "everyday" paperboy stunts a few months ago. Tater made piles of threads on a daily basis to ensure his immediate propaganda was commented upon.

Very strange behaviour by a mere poster, as an opinion. He seems to have discontinued that sort of activity. Today, tater has lost his enthusiasm for daily paperboy deliveries and sublimated his lust for deviant expectations about religious matters. Tomorrow, he shall welcome more expected income from the US Government covering his personal bills because he spent twenty years peelin' potatoes for the US AirForce in the barracks.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   14:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Vinny (#128)

FYI, John Deere was murdered by Prescott Bush in the basement of the Silverado S&L.

Hey Vinny!

Don't give me any shit. There are reasons why I rarely comment on your pure publick and out of the place BS. This is another one.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   14:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GrandIsland (#124)

"ON THIS SITE".... No matter how YELLA they spin it... still means POSTED HERE. lol

I know exactly what you mean:

"Because I called people PAULTARDS on Liberty Post, but did not utter the same phrase on Liberty's Flame, my claim that I did not post it "ON THIS SITE" would remain true."

Although technically true, you cannot escape the past. Your posting history is well known and this site is, for all intents and purposes, a stand in for Liberty Post.

Just stick to the topics and avoid defending yourself with technicalities. It will only make your argument look weak and add fuel to your detractors.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   14:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: buckeroo (#129)

He seems to have discontinued that sort of activity.

I am not so sure he has given his routine a rest.

He seems to have shifted his focus to posting LEO-positive articles and negative pieces about Christian religious leaders (pastors). It is almost as if he relishes being the counterpoint to all discussions on this site.

I wonder; if the content here was more left leaning, would he then start posting more reasonable content? A curious experiment indeed.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   14:57:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: Gatlin, GrandIsland (#114)

Just graciously admit you made a mistake.

Although you may not believe it so, what I posted was a direct quote. That is still a fact even when you consider that it was a re-post from another thread.

If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.

Just as we take direct quotes that journalists distribute as truth, we can think of hondo68 as a reporter, distributing a direct quote for the benefit of the site.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   15:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: TheFireBert, Gatlin (#132)

His leftist views ago way way back.

I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-07   16:49:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: TheFireBert (#133)

If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.

I never claimed any such thing... nor have I ever suggested I did. What I cla

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   17:10:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Deckard (#134)

His leftist views ago way way back.

I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

That would make sense since his latest idol also wielded the IRS and FBI against his critics when the events escalated. A full third-termer, none the less!

I wonder if Mr. Obama is thinking of pulling a FDR in Chicago to get his Emperor-ship started? All that is needed is a WWIII, amirite?!?

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   3:24:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: Gatlin, Whatever other logon you're using (#122)

Wow that didn't last long I came off bozo for you to answer and now I'm back on it within a matter of hours.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-08   8:22:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: CZ82 (#137)

Wow that didn't last long I came off bozo for you to answer and now I'm back on it within a matter of hours.

I'm just "havin fun messin wit ya, Willis."

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   8:53:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: Deckard, TheFireBert (#134)

His leftist views ago way way back. I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

You never get anything right….but then, everyone has come to expect that.

I was an - Equal Opportunity Non-Affiliated Political Party Paid Advertiser - See Last Paragraph.

I was paid a whole quarter for my unique ability and challenging effort….big money for a kid back then.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   9:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: TheFireBert (#102)

"Perhaps if the LEOs were not spending much of their time turning over innocent rocks to find loot they would not even be needed"

Is that what you think the cops are doing -- detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize?

When you post crap like this, you lose credibility. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture so you don't look so foolish.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   9:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: misterwhite (#140)

Is that what you think the cops are doing -- detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize?

In too many cases, yes.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-08   9:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz (#133)

Just graciously admit you made a mistake.
Although you may not believe it so, what I posted was a direct quote. That is still a fact even when you consider that it was a re-post from another thread.
If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.
Just as we take direct quotes that journalists distribute as truth, we can think of hondo68 as a reporter, distributing a direct quote for the benefit of the site.

You simply made a mistake, no big deal….just let it go.
You were aching too much to give GrandIsalnd a smack down.
Therefore, you splashed your Challenge Accepted gif too quickly,
and with the absence of completely thorough and proper research.

You are also too quick to instruct me what I should let GrandIsland do.
By trying to do that, you are displaying quite a bit of hypocrisy....
since the original dialogue was between GrandIsland and tpaine.
You grabbed the gauntlet out of tpaine’s hand and injected yourself,
when you should have “let him make his own claim.” (Your Words).

The hondo68 analogical inference does not involve the shared properties of
two or more common things and is therefore logically fallacious. Nice try, though.

I respectfully suggest we now move on…since there is nothing more here.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   10:01:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: rlk (#141)

"In too many cases, yes."

If that's what you really belive, fine. I'll just add you to my special category:

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   10:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: misterwhite (#143)

"In too many cases, yes."

If that's what you really belive, fine. I'll just add you to my special category...

Nobody cares about your special category except you and some other kooks.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-08   10:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Gatlin (#139)

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you clearly admitted.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   10:09:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Deckard (#145) (Edited)

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you clearly admitted.


HERE....BOSS

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   11:33:16 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: misterwhite (#140)

When you post crap like this, you lose credibility. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture so you don't look so foolish.

Maybe with you, but when did I ever have any credibility with you that I would consider worth having? Your statement that smears my opinion will do more damage that my actual opinion.

I do know what civil asset forfeiture, and I do know what could happen if I have money or other items on my person and I am detained, however briefly, by law enforcement. That does not solve the gaping loopholes in the current statutes that say that if they "think" my property was involved in a crime, that I am free to go, but the property is not. If my property was involved in a crime, then the criminals should be arrested. Sure the property should be detained, as long as the criminal is detained right alongside it.

I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated? Keep in mind that just because someone does not consent to a search does not mean the police "cannot" search. In my situation, if the police "thought" that the cash I had was connected to a crime, real or imaginary, the money would likely be "detained" while I might be free to go. I would have no certainty that the money would be returned, and in some instances there may not be an evidence receipt given to me stating that I even had it (confirmed by my local police department when asked about it - the actual phrase was "[we] don't have to prove anything; you have to prove [we] have your property").

We are not discussing the current ethics of LEOs, we are discussing the possibility and often documented abuse of civil asset forfeiture in the context of statutes that are vaguely written and loosly enforced that just happen to be what police departments are leaning on for financial support.

Would you be outraged if banks insisted on gouging on overdraft fees, even if some of those overdrafts are created from electronic shell games designed to sometime cause overdrafts due to vague funds availability schedules? I know I am, and have been in that situation. Of course the bank reversed the penalties when I pointed out their errors, but just imagine if they maintain that practice because "we rely on those funds" to continue business. Yes, consumers can be careless with their debit cards, but that does not stop banks from taking advantage of that fact.

The reason I speak out about this subject, and many others, is because I have personal experience with some aspect of the subject, or will be affected financial or socially by the subject. I am not just spraying words to fill a text box, or troll a forum. There are more effective ways that my approach for that stuff.

By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself". But then again, when have I ever seen you do that?

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   14:28:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Gatlin, TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz, the first pautard is born 2007 -GrandIsland (#142)

The hondo68 analogical inference does not involve the shared properties of two or more common things and [blah, blah, blah.....]

Way back in '07 GrandIsland was a genuine pautard himself. Yes he loved Ron Paul for a short time, before his head exploded from too much liberty.

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-08   14:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: hondo68 (#148)

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.

I never really disliked the kook. He has many great ideas.... and yes, he has a few over the top ideas. What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

Does the shoe fit? lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   15:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: GrandIsland (#149)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I know that to be true in my case. I got completely disgusted with them.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   15:34:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: GrandIsland, hondo68 (#149)

What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

When I wrote about Ron Paul and his naivete about Iran in Washington Times Communities (Ron Paul is wrong: Ahmadinejad’s Iran is armed and dangerous), my inbox was flooded by either nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, or crude comments from Ron Paul zealots. Many of the responses were incoherent–few were surprisingly reasonable, although the majority of them were cacophonous and painful to read. Enjoy….here.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   16:00:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: TheFireBert (#147)

"By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself".

Usually I do. But when someone posts the crap like you did -- implying that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize -- I don't feel any obligation "to actually add positive information to the discussion".

"I do know what civil asset forfeiture (is) ..."

I don't think you do. Not when you believe that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize.

"If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated?

Decide how? Toss a coin? Roll dice? What are you talking about?

First, if you were stopped, they need a reason for stopping you. Second, they need probable cause (or your consent) to search your vehicle.

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   16:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Gatlin (#150)

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I can tell ya this, the most vile of the Ron Paul cult are hateful towards Rand... and that just makes me wanna vote for Rand even more. lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   18:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Gatlin (#150) (Edited)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

Losing your memory old timer?

Or just more revisionist history on your part?

Go back and look at those threads - it was the anti-Ron Paul faction led by you, byeltsin, Byteshredder (remember that foul-mouthed tool?) and of course yukon (you remember the gay porn lover, right?) who were fouling the forum with lies.

As if you got your talking points from neo-con central.

This thread makes my point succinctly.

Why are so many Ron Paul acolytes, vile, obnoxious, foul, libtard cowards?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: misterwhite (#152)

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

You are absolutely right, those are assumptions.

I gave you the details, from experience I know what can happen.

You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen. From the numerous stories that are published, and with many peoples personal experiences, many of the CAF critics have solid reason to believe otherwise.

But by all mean, keep assuming (or at least making an ass- out of -u- and... you get the point).

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   19:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: misterwhite (#152)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-08   19:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Deckard (#154)

...VILE PEOPLE…

Go back and look at those threads …

As if you got your talking points from neo-con central.

I don’t need to go look at anything because I’m not talking about LP, you narrow-minded Buffon.

Everyone knew that even as Ron Paul conceded, he was still asking his supporters to be civil and cease the disruptions they were causing. It was clear that “Paul didn’t want to be associated with some of the moves his supporters made which caused resentment and frustration to others.” Paul’s famously uncontrolled supporters did not listen to him.

And that did not come from any neo-con central talking point….it came from eyewitnesses.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:26:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman? (#151)

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

When I wrote about Ron Paul and his naivete about Iran in Washington Times Communities (Ron Paul is wrong: Ahmadinejad’s Iran is armed and dangerous), my inbox was flooded by either nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, or crude comments from Ron Paul zealots. Many of the responses were incoherent–few were surprisingly reasonable, although the majority of them were cacophonous and painful to read. Enjoy….here.

Gabriella Hoffman is a senior at UC-San Diego who balances life as a student with life as a conservative activist. She’s majoring in Political Science and minoring in History. She serves as the Executive Assistant on The Rick Amato Show, and produces the “Top Young Con of the Week” segment each Monday. beforeitsnews.co m/contributor/pages/67/016/bio.html

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-08   19:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: Gatlin (#157)

I don’t need to go look at anything

Yeah, who can blame you?

It's more comfortable for you to remember what you want to remember instead of the actual facts.

What happened to Gatlin the "truth-seeker"?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Gatlin (#157)

Everyone knew that even as Ron Paul conceded, he was still asking his supporters to be civil and cease the disruptions they were causing.

Whether or not that is true, the fact remains that you and the canary clan over at LP were the instigators and foul mouthed neanderthals on any of the Ron Paul threads.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: A K A Stone, misterwhite (#156)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:36:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: Deckard (#160)

Whether or not that is true...

It is true. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant and immaterial to the stated fact.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:38:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: A K A Stone (#156)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

See - it's the money that is considered guilty.

You can be completely innocent of any crime, but the badged highwaymen can still steal your money.

We live in Bizarro World.

It's like the liberals - guns are evil, not the person.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Gatlin (#162)

The rest of your sentence is irrelevant and immaterial to the stated fact.

The rest of my sentence is completely relevant, Ron Paul's alleged statements not withstanding.

The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:42:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: tpaine, Gatlin has come a long way baby, trans whatever (#158)

Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-08   19:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: hondo68 (#165)

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

Nothing surprises me these days.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   20:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: hondo68 (#165)

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

That will make yukon very unhappy.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:10:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: All (#164)

Deckard ~ The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

Like this?

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul hondo68 posted on 2015-06-08 19:53:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Or this ?

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin! Nothing surprises me these days.

Fred Mertz posted on 2015-06-08 20:01:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   20:11:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: GrandIsland, Fred Mertz, hondo68 (#168)

The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

#8. To: Dead Culture Watch (#5)

On the flip side (for me anyway)... I can't stand PAULTARD because of his asshole cult. The only way I'd vote for the quack is if he was my LAST chance at unseating the Kenyan.

GrandIsland  posted on  2012-06-14   1:37:56 ET  

#23. To: Has A Clue (#19)

Yourself, Yukon, Whitesands and the rest of the Neocon-corupted BS ilk had better watch out - because we are coming - Ron Paul 2012!

F*ck off PAULTARD.

We want a conservative for prez... not a (D) on crack, aka a Liberterian... hippie, pothead... Drug loving... open border... terrorist supporting cock breath that wants to taxes the rich.

GrandIsland  posted on  2011-12-19   16:36:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace  

#38. To: Parrot with Speed Dial (#33)

Look for Cheney to appear on TV .......suggesting Ron Paul is Al Qeada.

All I want Cheney to do.. is take Paultard duck hunting.

GrandIsland  posted on  2011-12-19   18:12:17 ET

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: GrandIsland (#168)

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

#158. To: Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman? (#151)

Gatlin posted at # 151 : ---

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

Gatlin provided links at #151, that led to the 'hate mail' supposedly received by Gabrielle Hoffman.. Wondering if gatlin was posting as Hoffman is a reasonable question, not an 'unsolicited attack', as even you must admit.. ---- Correct?

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-08   20:31:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Deckard (#159)

What happened to Gatlin the "truth-seeker"?

He became Gatlin the "truth-finder!"

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   20:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: Gatlin (#171)

He became Gatlin the "truth-finder!

Apparently not.

Otherwise you would admit that you and the other anti-Paul trolls spammed those threads with your childishly obscene garbage.

You couldn't find "truth" with both hands and a flashlight.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:57:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: Deckard (#169)

Can't you ever do anything that is original.

Copy and paste....and when that fails, you then resort to regurgitation.

Nobody bothers to read this shit you drag up....get a life.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Deckard (#172)

I admit that the truth was told about Paultards.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Deckard (#160)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Deckard (#164)

The fact is,

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:03:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Gatlin (#161)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.

His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.

No warrant was issued.

No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-08   21:04:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Deckard (#172)

When I can find truth, then truth finds me.

My magnetic charm attracts it.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Gatlin (#175)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

Or should I call you Gaby?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Gatlin (#173)

Copy and paste

That's right - proving once again that you and GI both have misrepresented yourselves as "the voices of reason".

You don't like the facts?

Too bad.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: Gatlin (#176)

Deckard is as liberal as Rev Al Sharpton. Fat Al still brings up slavery as a reason black people still act uncivil... and Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP. Like fat Al, Deckard feels what was said on LP is a valid reason to shit on Stone, here on LF. THIS IS WHY THE AGENDA POSTERS KEEP HARPING ABOUT LP. The trouble makers even still bitch about FR. lol

There is a pattern of disruptive behavior.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   21:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Gatlin (#176)

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

That is simply untrue.

Of course that is how you remember the exchanges - more's the pity.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: GrandIsland (#181)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

You misrepresented yourself by claiming that you were the voice of reason on the Ron Paul threads.

I am waiting patiently for the day when you finally lose it and your real personality begins to show up.

We've already noticed that you are having a more difficult time keeping your rage under control.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: A K A Stone (#177)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.
His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
No warrant was issued.
No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

We were discussing “innocent until proven guilty.” You now “change horses in the middle of the stream” and switch the discussion to the “right of the people.” Okay, let’s look at that.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
I need to catch up with you. I have to go slow, after all I am well into being an octogenarian, so I have to lay things out carefully. I must find out “who” the “his” is, you are talking about. Back up the post to 161, no “his” there. Back on up for there to 156, no “his” there. Back on up to post 152 which is the post you responded to when you stated “innocent until proven guilty.” The “his” there is from 147. So, we must back on up to 147 where we find TheFiredBert presented a hypothetical.
I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped … [Boldness Added].
He said “if’ he were stopped. Since he was not stopped. Then I don’t understand how it is said that:
     His right to be secure in his person was violated.
     His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
     No warrant was issued.
     No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

Had he been stopped, then:

Can the Police Legitimately Search My Vehicle Without a Warrant?

The Fourth Amendment's protection against unlawful search and seizure generally makes arbitrary police car searches illegal. If the police search your car without a warrant, your permission, or a valid reason, they are violating your constitutional rights. Nevertheless, police can search a car without a warrant in a number of circumstances. [Underline Boldness Added]

Courts generally give police more leeway to search a vehicle than a home. Under the "automobile exception" to the search warrant requirement, individuals have less of an expectation of privacy when driving a car. It’s worth noting that states are also free to provide more protections to individual’s privacy rights.

When Can Police Do a Warrantless Search?

Not every police search must be made pursuant to a lawfully executed warrant. The Supreme Court has ruled that warrantless police conduct may comply with the Fourth Amendment, so long as it is reasonable under the circumstances.

So, when can police search your car? Generally, under the following circumstances:

  1. You have given the officer consent
  2. The officer has probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime in your vehicle
  3. The officer reasonably believes a search is necessary for their own protection (a hidden weapon, for example)
  4. You have been arrested and the search is related to that arrest (such as a search for illegal drugs)

Automobiles may be stopped if an officer possesses a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the motorist has violated a traffic law. If the reason for the stop is a minor traffic offense like speeding, the officer likely isn’t permitted to search your car without more reason. However, if police arrest for conduct arising out of a traffic stop, a search of your vehicle incident to arrest will usually be allowed.

Police Can Search Impounded Cars Without a Warrant

If the police have towed and impounded your car, they have the authority to search your vehicle. This search can be as comprehensive as the police wish, and will most likely include opening any locked compartments or boxes found within your car. The reason for your car getting towed and impounded does not matter. It could be for something as simple as a parking violation or as serious as a car theft.

Police cannot tow and impound your car for the sole purpose of searching it, however. Police are required to follow strict procedures when it comes to these types of searches.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/can-the-police- legitimately-search-my-vehicle-without-a-warrant.html.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: DeckardM GrandIsland (#183)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

No Sir, GI and I did not dredge old insignificant space fillers up from LP and bring them over here to prove NOTHING.

You, sport....did that.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Fred Mertz, GrandIsland (#179)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

The "we" is GrandIsland and I, Aweless

Or should I call you Gaby?
No, you should call me: Sir.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Deckard (#180)

You don't like the facts?

Au contraire....I love facts.

Bullshit unrelated to the current subject at hand....I can definitely do without.

That is all your copy and past is...

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: Gatlin (#186)

I didn't realize that you were a good looking blonde.

Carry on, tater. You provide endless entertainment.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   22:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: GrandIsland (#181)

Deckard is as liberal as Rev Al Sharpton.

***snicker***

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Fred Mertz (#188)

You provide endless entertainment.

I must, you stalk my every post...

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: Deckard (#182)

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

That is simply untrue.

Of course that is how you remember the exchanges - more's the pity.

Oh, it's true....definitely true.

Not how I remember anything, it is what others saw and posted on the Internet.

"And if it's on the Internet, then it is true"....right?

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:24:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: A K A Stone (#156)

"Innocent until proven guilty right."

That's an instruction to a jury in a criminal case.

(By the way, if the individual is innocent, where does the state get the power to arrest and jail that individual? They're innocent! Right?)

This is a civil case, first of all, not a criminal case. Second, the case is against the asset, not the individual. Third, what is so damn hard about coming up with a reasonable explanation? Unless you're a criminal.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   9:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: misterwhite, A K A Stone (#192)

Second, the case is against the asset...

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   9:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: All (#193)

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   10:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: GrandIsland (#194)

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

And you say you were a cop? Unbelievable!

Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence that is obtained illegally.

The logic of the terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as well.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:11:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: All (#195)

It can be used many ways to assist the inept to comprehend. Any proceeds (fruit) can be grown on the poisonous tree (illegal ir unlawful activity).

That fruit can be the focus of a criminal or civil case.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   10:16:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: GrandIsland (#196)

It can be used many ways to assist the inept to comprehend. Any proceeds (fruit) can be grown on the poisonous tree (illegal ir unlawful activity).

That fruit can be the focus of a criminal or civil case.

You're out of your depth.

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper.

Anything you add now will only make you look like even more of an idiot.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:18:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: TheFireBert (#155)

"You are absolutely right, those are assumptions."

It's called "preponderance of the evidence" -- the standard for civil asset forfeiture cases.

Is that enough to convict the individual in a criminal trial beyond a reasonable doubt? No.

"You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen."

I believe you're the one who looks at the individual and asks how law enforcement could ever consider them to be a criminal.

Me? I don't care who they are. I simply look at the situation to determine if the officer had reasonable suspicion that there was criminal activity.

An individual leaving Chicago and headed for Nevada is pulled over for speeding. It's a rental car, but the driver didn't rent it. Who did? He says his friend, Luis. Oops. Not the name on the rental agreement.

Does the driver have any previous arrests? He says no. Oops. The computer says he did. Oh yeah. He forgot.

Cooler in the back seat. Officer asks if he can have a look. Driver says OK. In the cooler is a large plastic bag that contains seven bundles wrapped in rubber bands inside aluminum foil packaging. These bundles contained a total of $124,700 in currency.*

Preponderance of the evidence. And never once did I profile the citizen.

*(United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency, 05-3295 (8th Cir. 2006)

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: All, Y'ALL, -- grandisland and gatlin stonewall a legitimate question, poor fellas. (#170)

GrandIsland (#168) : ----

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

Gatlin posted at # 151 : ---

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

Gatlin provided links at #151, that led to the 'hate mail' supposedly received by Gabrielle Hoffman.. Wondering if gatlin was posting as Hoffman is a reasonable question, not an 'unsolicited attack', as even you must admit.. ---- Correct?

There have been NO replies to a legitimate query, which implies guilt, correct?

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-09   10:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Deckard (#193)

"It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime."

It's that the asset was involved in criminal activity. If so, the asset can be seized.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: misterwhite (#200) (Edited)

It's that the asset was involved in criminal activity. If so, the asset can be seized.

That's the point boot-licker.

In many of these cases, there is NO criminal activity involved.

Police Seize $63,530 From Veteran Because He Kept It In Grocery Bags

NYPD Seized an Innocent’s Man Cash, Used It to Pad Their Pensions

Cops Steal $18,000 from a Man, Who Broke NO LAW, Because a Drug Dog Alerted to Cash

Iowa Troopers Steal $100,000 in Poker Winnings From Two Players Driving Through the State

Why are you so dead set against reforming asset forfeiture laws?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Deckard (#201)

"In many of these cases, there is NO criminal activity involved."

Because you say so.

There are some where the government cannot prove in a court of law that criminal activity existed. In those few cases, the asset is returned.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: misterwhite (#202)

In those few cases, the asset is returned.

The sad thing is that you actually believe that.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: Deckard (#201)

"Why are you so dead set against reforming asset forfeiture laws?"

At the federal level, I supported the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000.

As for state civil asset forfeiture laws, that's up to each state.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Deckard (#201) (Edited)

I don't have the time nor the inclination to destroy all of your "examples". I'll pick the first one: "Police Seize $63,530 From Veteran Because He Kept It In Grocery Bags"

They seized it only because it was in grocery bags, huh? That's it? He had money in grocery bags so they're taking it.

You and your f**king yellow journalism. I'm getting tired of it.

Brewer was pulled over for a traffic violation. After gaining Brewer’s consent, the officer walked around the car with a canine unit; the dog alerted to the trunk. When he searched the trunk, the officer found two backpacks that had a “strong odor of raw marijuana” and $63,530 in cash. The cash was seized because of the following:

-- The money was kept in plastic grocery bags in a backpack in Brewer’s trunk.

-- The money was bundled into batches of $1,000 that were kept together by rubber bands.

-- Brewer initially told the officer that he did not have enough money to pay for a motel room and that he was sleeping at rest stops. But, when searched, he had $1,000 cash in his pocket.

-- The officer claimed he smelled marijuana on the backpack.

-- Two magazine articles were found in the car. One, "How to Make Wicked Hash" and the other. "How to Make Weed Oil Without Blowing Yourself Up.".

That's called "preponderance of the evidence", and it's enough to seize the cash. I'm surprised they didn't also seize his car. Scumbag drug dealer.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   11:09:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: misterwhite (#205)

The officer claimed he smelled marijuana on the backpack.

"claimed"

I'm surprised they didn't also seize his car. Scumbag drug dealer.

There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   11:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: All (#206)

Deckard ~ "claimed"

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper. Mr. White spanked the YELLA out of your agenda.

Anything you add now will only make you look like even more of an idiot.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   11:31:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Deckard (#206)

"claimed"

Yeah. Claimed. Said. Stated. Swore under oath.

"There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

Correct. If there was, HE would have been arrested. See how that works?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   11:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: misterwhite (#208) (Edited)

Do this
instead of trying
to reason with him:

You will get
the same results, easier.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-09   11:50:51 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: GrandIsland (#207) (Edited)

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper.

Yeah - tell us all again what Fruit of the poisonous tree means.

Grand Island: It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

Way to go, putz.

e_type jag was right on the money, you were never really a cop.

Just a worshiper of them.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   12:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: misterwhite (#208)

"There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

Correct. If there was, HE would have been arrested.

Oh - so he was not arrested for a crime, yet the money is guilty and the cops get to keep it.

Only in a police state does that make sense

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   12:47:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Deckard (#211)

"Oh - so he was not arrested for a crime, yet the money is guilty and the cops get to keep it."

Where do keep getting "the money is guilty"? I corrected you once already.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   12:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: misterwhite (#198)

Preponderance of the evidence. And never once did I profile the citizen.

*(United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency, 05-3295 (8th Cir. 2006)

I am not sure what you are trying to prove. After reading two sources on that case, I am led to believe that although there was a large sum of cash on hand, the office made huge leaps in judgement to suspect that the "inanimate" object ($124,700 cash) was involved in a crime. The crime in progress was supposedly for drugs, because everyone knows that anything in cash over what can be debited form your EBT card is drug money.

The circumstances were: driver initially lied about the circumstances, the cash was not presented in what the officer determined to be a "normal" manner, and the car was a rental, but the driver did not rent the car, the driver omitted the fact that he was arrested for DUI.

The evidence the officer obtained: lies, unusual packaging, a faint alert to an illegal substance on the cash (dissenting judge admitted that most currency in circulation would be alerted to due to Tony Montana's coke habits) and speeding.

The missing evidence: drugs, drug paraphernalia, records of drug trade, weapons, other evidence of drug trade crimes, plain old evidence of any crime other than speeding.

I bet the Nebraska State Patrol threw a fit when they couldn't keep that loot. So they appealed the earlier decision in a higher court and won there.

So, did they ever get around to prosecuting the currency, or did they stop for donuts and call it a day? What happened to Mr. Gonzalez, did he finally get charged with a criminal drug related charge?

I do see that the precedence has been set; if you carry a large sum of money, and the cop thinks you are lying about something, prepare to part with your cash. They don't have to prove there was a crime, just that a crime could have been committed (no other evidence necessary).

Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni...$124,700_in_U.S._Currency

""Senior Circuit Judge Donald P. Lay, a Lyndon B. Johnson appointee to the Eighth Circuit, dissented, concluding "I cannot agree that the government has proven, by a preponderance of the evidence, the requisite substantial connection between the currency and a controlled substance offense."""

Court decision (pdf):

www.google.com/url?q=http...vON8sYX4vZGNf15c9y3hFdTrQ

"Possession of a large sum of cash is “strong evidence” of a connection to drug activity,$84,615 in U.S. Currency, 379 F.3d at 501-02, and Gonzolez was carrying the very large sum of $124,700. The currency was concealed in aluminum foil inside a cooler, and while an innocent traveler might theoretically carry more than $100,000 in cash across country and seek to conceal funds from would-be thieves on the highway, we have adopted the common-sense view that bundling and concealment of large amounts of currency, combined with other suspicious circumstances, supports a connection between money and drug trafficking."

Common-sense view = "drugs make lots of money - he has lots of money - he sold drugs"

"At most, the evidence presented suggests the money seized may have been involved in some illegal activity – activity that is incapable of being ascertained on the record before us. See United States v. U.S. Currency, $30,060.00, 39 F.3d 1039, 1044 (9th Cir. 1994) (“[A] mere suspicion of illegal activity is not enough to establish . . . that the money was connected to drugs.”)."

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-09   18:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: TheFireBert (#213)

"I am not sure what you are trying to prove."

You made the statement, "You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen". I'm saying I let the circumstances determine criminal activity.

"The missing evidence: drugs, drug paraphernalia, records of drug trade, weapons, other evidence of drug trade crimes, plain old evidence of any crime other than speeding."

If they had THAT evidence, Mr. Gonzolez would have been arrested.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   19:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: Deckard (#183)

I am waiting patiently for the day when you finally lose it and your real personality begins to show up.

We've already noticed that you are having a more difficult time keeping your rage under control.

You know I've always found it very amusing that he thinks the side of the story he believes/is pushing is always the truth when there's no way he can prove it.

For the very simple fact is HE WASN'T THERE so he doesn't know for sure, he's "ASSUMING" he's right and that everybody else is wrong.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-09   20:00:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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