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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture”
Source: Liberty Blitzkrieg
URL Source: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/0 ... ght-of-civil-asset-forfeiture/
Published: Jun 4, 2015
Author: Michael Krieger
Post Date: 2015-06-05 10:21:58 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 39135
Comments: 215

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

– From the Wall Street Journal article: Efforts to Curb Asset Seizures by Law Enforcement Hit Headwinds

googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1403197269028-0'); });

The fact that civil asset forfeiture continues to exist across the American landscape despite outrage and considerable media attention, is as good an example as any as to how far fallen and uncivilized our so-called “society” has become. It also proves the point demonstrated in a Princeton University study that the U.S. is not a democracy, and the desires of the people have no impact on how the country is governed.

Civil asset forfeiture was first highlighted on these pages in the 2013 post, Why You Should Never, Ever Drive Through Tenaha, Texas, in which I explained:

In a nutshell, civil forfeiture is the practice of confiscating items from people, ranging from cash, cars, even homes based on no criminal conviction or charges, merely suspicion. This practice first became widespread for use against pirates, as a way to take possession of contraband goods despite the fact that the ships’ owners in many cases were located thousands of miles away and couldn’t easily be prosecuted. As is often the case, what starts out reasonable becomes a gigantic organized crime ring of criminality, particularly in a society where the rule of law no longer exists for the “elite,” yet anything goes when it comes to pillaging the average citizen.

One of the major reasons these programs have become so abused is that the police departments themselves are able to keep much of the confiscated money. So they actually have a perverse incentive to steal. As might be expected, a program that is often touted as being effective against going after major drug kingpins, actually targets the poor and disenfranchised more than anything else.

Civil asset forfeiture is state-sanctioned theft. There is no other way around it. The entire concept violates the spirit of the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments to the Constitution. In case you have any doubt:

The 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 6th Amendment: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Civil asset forfeiture is a civil rights issue, and it should be seen as such by everyone. Just because it targets the entire population as opposed to a specific race, gender or sexual orientation doesn’t make it less important.

The problem with opposition in America today is that people aren’t seeing modern battle lines clearly. The greatest friction and abuse occurring in these United States today comes from the corporate-fascist state’s attack against average citizens. It doesn’t matter what color or gender you are. If you are weak, poor and vulnerable you are ripe for the picking. Until people see the battle lines clearly, it will be very difficult to achieve real change. Most people are divided and conquered along their superficial little tribal affiliations, and they completely miss the bigger picture to the peril of society. Which is why women will support Hillary just because she’s a woman, not caring in the least that she is a compromised, corrupt oligarch stooge.

In case you have any doubt about how little your opinion matters when it comes to the rights of police to rob you blind, read the following excerpts from the Wall Street Journal:

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Read that sentence over and over again until you get it. This is a free country?

Critics have taken aim at the confiscatory powers over concerns that authorities have too much latitude and often too strong a financial incentive when deciding whether to seize property suspected of being tied to criminal activity.

But after New Mexico passed a law this spring hailed by civil-liberties groups as a breakthrough in their effort to rein in states’ forfeiture programs, prosecutor and police associations stepped up their own lobbying campaign, warning legislators that passing such laws would deprive them of a potent crime-fighting tool and rip a hole in law-enforcement budgets.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

“What happened in those states is a testament to the power of the law-enforcement lobby,” said Scott Bullock, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning advocacy group that has led a push for laws giving property owners more protections. 

It seems the only people in America without a powerful lobby group are actual American citizens. See: Charting the American Oligarchy – How 0.01% of the Population Contributes 42% of All Campaign Cash

Prosecutors say forfeiture laws help ensure that drug traffickers, white-collar thieves and other wrongdoers can’t enjoy the fruits of their misdeeds and help curb crime by depriving criminals of the “tools” of their trade. Under federal law and in many states, a conviction isn’t required.

“White-collar thieves,” they say. Yet I haven’t seen a single bank executive’s assets confiscated. Rather, they received taxpayer bailout funds with which to pay themselves record bonuses after wrecking the global economy. Don’t forget:

The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally

In Texas, lawmakers introduced more than a dozen bills addressing forfeiture during this year’s legislative session, which ended Monday. Some would either force the government to meet a higher burden of proof or subject forfeiture programs to more stringent financial disclosure rules and audits. 

But only one bill, which law-enforcement officials didn’t object to, ultimately passed. It requires the state attorney general to publish an annual report of forfeited funds based on data submitted by local authorities. That information, at the moment, is only accessible through freedom-of-information requests.

This is what a corporate-statist oligarchy looks like.

Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, said local enforcement officers and prosecutors “educated their legislators about how asset forfeiture really works in Texas.”

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan last month vetoed a bill that would, among other things, prohibit the state from turning over seized property to the federal government unless the owner has been charged with a federal crime or gives consent.

Remember, the terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Prosecutors said the Tenaha episode was an isolated breakdown in the system. “Everybody knows there are bad eggs out there,” Karen Morris, who supervises the Harris County district attorney’s forfeiture unit, told Texas lawmakers at a hearing this spring. “But we don’t stop prosecuting people for murder just because some district attorneys have made mistakes.”

When police aren’t out there stealing your hard earned assets without a trial or charges, they can often be found pounding on citizens for kicks. I came across the following three headlines this morning alone as I was the scanning news.

Cop Exonerated After Being Caught on Video Brutally Beating A Tourist Who Asked For A Tampon

Kids in Police-Run Youth Camp Allegedly Beaten, Threatened By Cops

Florida Cop Charged With On-Duty Child Abuse; Suspended With Pay

This is not what freedom looks like.

For related articles, see:

The DEA Strikes Again – Agents Seize Man’s Life Savings Under Civil Asset Forfeiture Without Charges

Asset Forfeiture – How Cops Continue to Steal Americans’ Hard Earned Cash with Zero Repercussions

Quote of the Day – An Incredible Statement from the City Attorney of Las Cruces, New Mexico

“Common People Do Not Carry This Much U.S. Currency…” – This is How Police Justify Stealing American Citizens’ Money

In Liberty, Michael Krieger

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#174. To: Deckard (#172)

I admit that the truth was told about Paultards.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Deckard (#160)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Deckard (#164)

The fact is,

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:03:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Gatlin (#161)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.

His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.

No warrant was issued.

No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-08   21:04:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Deckard (#172)

When I can find truth, then truth finds me.

My magnetic charm attracts it.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Gatlin (#175)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

Or should I call you Gaby?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Gatlin (#173)

Copy and paste

That's right - proving once again that you and GI both have misrepresented yourselves as "the voices of reason".

You don't like the facts?

Too bad.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: Gatlin (#176)

Deckard is as liberal as Rev Al Sharpton. Fat Al still brings up slavery as a reason black people still act uncivil... and Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP. Like fat Al, Deckard feels what was said on LP is a valid reason to shit on Stone, here on LF. THIS IS WHY THE AGENDA POSTERS KEEP HARPING ABOUT LP. The trouble makers even still bitch about FR. lol

There is a pattern of disruptive behavior.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   21:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Gatlin (#176)

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

That is simply untrue.

Of course that is how you remember the exchanges - more's the pity.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: GrandIsland (#181)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

You misrepresented yourself by claiming that you were the voice of reason on the Ron Paul threads.

I am waiting patiently for the day when you finally lose it and your real personality begins to show up.

We've already noticed that you are having a more difficult time keeping your rage under control.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: A K A Stone (#177)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.
His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
No warrant was issued.
No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

We were discussing “innocent until proven guilty.” You now “change horses in the middle of the stream” and switch the discussion to the “right of the people.” Okay, let’s look at that.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
I need to catch up with you. I have to go slow, after all I am well into being an octogenarian, so I have to lay things out carefully. I must find out “who” the “his” is, you are talking about. Back up the post to 161, no “his” there. Back on up for there to 156, no “his” there. Back on up to post 152 which is the post you responded to when you stated “innocent until proven guilty.” The “his” there is from 147. So, we must back on up to 147 where we find TheFiredBert presented a hypothetical.
I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped … [Boldness Added].
He said “if’ he were stopped. Since he was not stopped. Then I don’t understand how it is said that:
     His right to be secure in his person was violated.
     His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
     No warrant was issued.
     No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

Had he been stopped, then:

Can the Police Legitimately Search My Vehicle Without a Warrant?

The Fourth Amendment's protection against unlawful search and seizure generally makes arbitrary police car searches illegal. If the police search your car without a warrant, your permission, or a valid reason, they are violating your constitutional rights. Nevertheless, police can search a car without a warrant in a number of circumstances. [Underline Boldness Added]

Courts generally give police more leeway to search a vehicle than a home. Under the "automobile exception" to the search warrant requirement, individuals have less of an expectation of privacy when driving a car. It’s worth noting that states are also free to provide more protections to individual’s privacy rights.

When Can Police Do a Warrantless Search?

Not every police search must be made pursuant to a lawfully executed warrant. The Supreme Court has ruled that warrantless police conduct may comply with the Fourth Amendment, so long as it is reasonable under the circumstances.

So, when can police search your car? Generally, under the following circumstances:

  1. You have given the officer consent
  2. The officer has probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime in your vehicle
  3. The officer reasonably believes a search is necessary for their own protection (a hidden weapon, for example)
  4. You have been arrested and the search is related to that arrest (such as a search for illegal drugs)

Automobiles may be stopped if an officer possesses a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the motorist has violated a traffic law. If the reason for the stop is a minor traffic offense like speeding, the officer likely isn’t permitted to search your car without more reason. However, if police arrest for conduct arising out of a traffic stop, a search of your vehicle incident to arrest will usually be allowed.

Police Can Search Impounded Cars Without a Warrant

If the police have towed and impounded your car, they have the authority to search your vehicle. This search can be as comprehensive as the police wish, and will most likely include opening any locked compartments or boxes found within your car. The reason for your car getting towed and impounded does not matter. It could be for something as simple as a parking violation or as serious as a car theft.

Police cannot tow and impound your car for the sole purpose of searching it, however. Police are required to follow strict procedures when it comes to these types of searches.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/can-the-police- legitimately-search-my-vehicle-without-a-warrant.html.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: DeckardM GrandIsland (#183)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

No Sir, GI and I did not dredge old insignificant space fillers up from LP and bring them over here to prove NOTHING.

You, sport....did that.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Fred Mertz, GrandIsland (#179)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

The "we" is GrandIsland and I, Aweless

Or should I call you Gaby?
No, you should call me: Sir.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Deckard (#180)

You don't like the facts?

Au contraire....I love facts.

Bullshit unrelated to the current subject at hand....I can definitely do without.

That is all your copy and past is...

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: Gatlin (#186)

I didn't realize that you were a good looking blonde.

Carry on, tater. You provide endless entertainment.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   22:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: GrandIsland (#181)

Deckard is as liberal as Rev Al Sharpton.

***snicker***

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Fred Mertz (#188)

You provide endless entertainment.

I must, you stalk my every post...

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: Deckard (#182)

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

That is simply untrue.

Of course that is how you remember the exchanges - more's the pity.

Oh, it's true....definitely true.

Not how I remember anything, it is what others saw and posted on the Internet.

"And if it's on the Internet, then it is true"....right?

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:24:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: A K A Stone (#156)

"Innocent until proven guilty right."

That's an instruction to a jury in a criminal case.

(By the way, if the individual is innocent, where does the state get the power to arrest and jail that individual? They're innocent! Right?)

This is a civil case, first of all, not a criminal case. Second, the case is against the asset, not the individual. Third, what is so damn hard about coming up with a reasonable explanation? Unless you're a criminal.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   9:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: misterwhite, A K A Stone (#192)

Second, the case is against the asset...

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   9:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: All (#193)

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   10:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: GrandIsland (#194)

It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime.

It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

And you say you were a cop? Unbelievable!

Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence that is obtained illegally.

The logic of the terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as well.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:11:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: All (#195)

It can be used many ways to assist the inept to comprehend. Any proceeds (fruit) can be grown on the poisonous tree (illegal ir unlawful activity).

That fruit can be the focus of a criminal or civil case.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   10:16:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: GrandIsland (#196)

It can be used many ways to assist the inept to comprehend. Any proceeds (fruit) can be grown on the poisonous tree (illegal ir unlawful activity).

That fruit can be the focus of a criminal or civil case.

You're out of your depth.

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper.

Anything you add now will only make you look like even more of an idiot.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:18:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: TheFireBert (#155)

"You are absolutely right, those are assumptions."

It's called "preponderance of the evidence" -- the standard for civil asset forfeiture cases.

Is that enough to convict the individual in a criminal trial beyond a reasonable doubt? No.

"You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen."

I believe you're the one who looks at the individual and asks how law enforcement could ever consider them to be a criminal.

Me? I don't care who they are. I simply look at the situation to determine if the officer had reasonable suspicion that there was criminal activity.

An individual leaving Chicago and headed for Nevada is pulled over for speeding. It's a rental car, but the driver didn't rent it. Who did? He says his friend, Luis. Oops. Not the name on the rental agreement.

Does the driver have any previous arrests? He says no. Oops. The computer says he did. Oh yeah. He forgot.

Cooler in the back seat. Officer asks if he can have a look. Driver says OK. In the cooler is a large plastic bag that contains seven bundles wrapped in rubber bands inside aluminum foil packaging. These bundles contained a total of $124,700 in currency.*

Preponderance of the evidence. And never once did I profile the citizen.

*(United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency, 05-3295 (8th Cir. 2006)

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: All, Y'ALL, -- grandisland and gatlin stonewall a legitimate question, poor fellas. (#170)

GrandIsland (#168) : ----

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

Gatlin posted at # 151 : ---

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

Gatlin provided links at #151, that led to the 'hate mail' supposedly received by Gabrielle Hoffman.. Wondering if gatlin was posting as Hoffman is a reasonable question, not an 'unsolicited attack', as even you must admit.. ---- Correct?

There have been NO replies to a legitimate query, which implies guilt, correct?

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-09   10:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Deckard (#193)

"It's simply absurd to think that an inanimate object (money) can be guilty of a crime."

It's that the asset was involved in criminal activity. If so, the asset can be seized.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: misterwhite (#200) (Edited)

It's that the asset was involved in criminal activity. If so, the asset can be seized.

That's the point boot-licker.

In many of these cases, there is NO criminal activity involved.

Police Seize $63,530 From Veteran Because He Kept It In Grocery Bags

NYPD Seized an Innocent’s Man Cash, Used It to Pad Their Pensions

Cops Steal $18,000 from a Man, Who Broke NO LAW, Because a Drug Dog Alerted to Cash

Iowa Troopers Steal $100,000 in Poker Winnings From Two Players Driving Through the State

Why are you so dead set against reforming asset forfeiture laws?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Deckard (#201)

"In many of these cases, there is NO criminal activity involved."

Because you say so.

There are some where the government cannot prove in a court of law that criminal activity existed. In those few cases, the asset is returned.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: misterwhite (#202)

In those few cases, the asset is returned.

The sad thing is that you actually believe that.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   10:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: Deckard (#201)

"Why are you so dead set against reforming asset forfeiture laws?"

At the federal level, I supported the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000.

As for state civil asset forfeiture laws, that's up to each state.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   10:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Deckard (#201) (Edited)

I don't have the time nor the inclination to destroy all of your "examples". I'll pick the first one: "Police Seize $63,530 From Veteran Because He Kept It In Grocery Bags"

They seized it only because it was in grocery bags, huh? That's it? He had money in grocery bags so they're taking it.

You and your f**king yellow journalism. I'm getting tired of it.

Brewer was pulled over for a traffic violation. After gaining Brewer’s consent, the officer walked around the car with a canine unit; the dog alerted to the trunk. When he searched the trunk, the officer found two backpacks that had a “strong odor of raw marijuana” and $63,530 in cash. The cash was seized because of the following:

-- The money was kept in plastic grocery bags in a backpack in Brewer’s trunk.

-- The money was bundled into batches of $1,000 that were kept together by rubber bands.

-- Brewer initially told the officer that he did not have enough money to pay for a motel room and that he was sleeping at rest stops. But, when searched, he had $1,000 cash in his pocket.

-- The officer claimed he smelled marijuana on the backpack.

-- Two magazine articles were found in the car. One, "How to Make Wicked Hash" and the other. "How to Make Weed Oil Without Blowing Yourself Up.".

That's called "preponderance of the evidence", and it's enough to seize the cash. I'm surprised they didn't also seize his car. Scumbag drug dealer.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   11:09:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: misterwhite (#205)

The officer claimed he smelled marijuana on the backpack.

"claimed"

I'm surprised they didn't also seize his car. Scumbag drug dealer.

There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   11:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: All (#206)

Deckard ~ "claimed"

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper. Mr. White spanked the YELLA out of your agenda.

Anything you add now will only make you look like even more of an idiot.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-09   11:31:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Deckard (#206)

"claimed"

Yeah. Claimed. Said. Stated. Swore under oath.

"There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

Correct. If there was, HE would have been arrested. See how that works?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   11:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: misterwhite (#208) (Edited)

Do this
instead of trying
to reason with him:

You will get
the same results, easier.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-09   11:50:51 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: GrandIsland (#207) (Edited)

I suggest that you stop digging the hole you are in any deeper.

Yeah - tell us all again what Fruit of the poisonous tree means.

Grand Island: It's the body of the crime... the FRUIT from the poisonous tree.

Way to go, putz.

e_type jag was right on the money, you were never really a cop.

Just a worshiper of them.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   12:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: misterwhite (#208)

"There was no evidence he was "dealing drugs".

Correct. If there was, HE would have been arrested.

Oh - so he was not arrested for a crime, yet the money is guilty and the cops get to keep it.

Only in a police state does that make sense

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-09   12:47:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Deckard (#211)

"Oh - so he was not arrested for a crime, yet the money is guilty and the cops get to keep it."

Where do keep getting "the money is guilty"? I corrected you once already.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   12:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: misterwhite (#198)

Preponderance of the evidence. And never once did I profile the citizen.

*(United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency, 05-3295 (8th Cir. 2006)

I am not sure what you are trying to prove. After reading two sources on that case, I am led to believe that although there was a large sum of cash on hand, the office made huge leaps in judgement to suspect that the "inanimate" object ($124,700 cash) was involved in a crime. The crime in progress was supposedly for drugs, because everyone knows that anything in cash over what can be debited form your EBT card is drug money.

The circumstances were: driver initially lied about the circumstances, the cash was not presented in what the officer determined to be a "normal" manner, and the car was a rental, but the driver did not rent the car, the driver omitted the fact that he was arrested for DUI.

The evidence the officer obtained: lies, unusual packaging, a faint alert to an illegal substance on the cash (dissenting judge admitted that most currency in circulation would be alerted to due to Tony Montana's coke habits) and speeding.

The missing evidence: drugs, drug paraphernalia, records of drug trade, weapons, other evidence of drug trade crimes, plain old evidence of any crime other than speeding.

I bet the Nebraska State Patrol threw a fit when they couldn't keep that loot. So they appealed the earlier decision in a higher court and won there.

So, did they ever get around to prosecuting the currency, or did they stop for donuts and call it a day? What happened to Mr. Gonzalez, did he finally get charged with a criminal drug related charge?

I do see that the precedence has been set; if you carry a large sum of money, and the cop thinks you are lying about something, prepare to part with your cash. They don't have to prove there was a crime, just that a crime could have been committed (no other evidence necessary).

Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni...$124,700_in_U.S._Currency

""Senior Circuit Judge Donald P. Lay, a Lyndon B. Johnson appointee to the Eighth Circuit, dissented, concluding "I cannot agree that the government has proven, by a preponderance of the evidence, the requisite substantial connection between the currency and a controlled substance offense."""

Court decision (pdf):

www.google.com/url?q=http...vON8sYX4vZGNf15c9y3hFdTrQ

"Possession of a large sum of cash is “strong evidence” of a connection to drug activity,$84,615 in U.S. Currency, 379 F.3d at 501-02, and Gonzolez was carrying the very large sum of $124,700. The currency was concealed in aluminum foil inside a cooler, and while an innocent traveler might theoretically carry more than $100,000 in cash across country and seek to conceal funds from would-be thieves on the highway, we have adopted the common-sense view that bundling and concealment of large amounts of currency, combined with other suspicious circumstances, supports a connection between money and drug trafficking."

Common-sense view = "drugs make lots of money - he has lots of money - he sold drugs"

"At most, the evidence presented suggests the money seized may have been involved in some illegal activity – activity that is incapable of being ascertained on the record before us. See United States v. U.S. Currency, $30,060.00, 39 F.3d 1039, 1044 (9th Cir. 1994) (“[A] mere suspicion of illegal activity is not enough to establish . . . that the money was connected to drugs.”)."

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-09   18:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: TheFireBert (#213)

"I am not sure what you are trying to prove."

You made the statement, "You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen". I'm saying I let the circumstances determine criminal activity.

"The missing evidence: drugs, drug paraphernalia, records of drug trade, weapons, other evidence of drug trade crimes, plain old evidence of any crime other than speeding."

If they had THAT evidence, Mr. Gonzolez would have been arrested.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-09   19:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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