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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture”
Source: Liberty Blitzkrieg
URL Source: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/0 ... ght-of-civil-asset-forfeiture/
Published: Jun 4, 2015
Author: Michael Krieger
Post Date: 2015-06-05 10:21:58 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 39261
Comments: 215

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

– From the Wall Street Journal article: Efforts to Curb Asset Seizures by Law Enforcement Hit Headwinds

googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1403197269028-0'); });

The fact that civil asset forfeiture continues to exist across the American landscape despite outrage and considerable media attention, is as good an example as any as to how far fallen and uncivilized our so-called “society” has become. It also proves the point demonstrated in a Princeton University study that the U.S. is not a democracy, and the desires of the people have no impact on how the country is governed.

Civil asset forfeiture was first highlighted on these pages in the 2013 post, Why You Should Never, Ever Drive Through Tenaha, Texas, in which I explained:

In a nutshell, civil forfeiture is the practice of confiscating items from people, ranging from cash, cars, even homes based on no criminal conviction or charges, merely suspicion. This practice first became widespread for use against pirates, as a way to take possession of contraband goods despite the fact that the ships’ owners in many cases were located thousands of miles away and couldn’t easily be prosecuted. As is often the case, what starts out reasonable becomes a gigantic organized crime ring of criminality, particularly in a society where the rule of law no longer exists for the “elite,” yet anything goes when it comes to pillaging the average citizen.

One of the major reasons these programs have become so abused is that the police departments themselves are able to keep much of the confiscated money. So they actually have a perverse incentive to steal. As might be expected, a program that is often touted as being effective against going after major drug kingpins, actually targets the poor and disenfranchised more than anything else.

Civil asset forfeiture is state-sanctioned theft. There is no other way around it. The entire concept violates the spirit of the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments to the Constitution. In case you have any doubt:

The 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 6th Amendment: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Civil asset forfeiture is a civil rights issue, and it should be seen as such by everyone. Just because it targets the entire population as opposed to a specific race, gender or sexual orientation doesn’t make it less important.

The problem with opposition in America today is that people aren’t seeing modern battle lines clearly. The greatest friction and abuse occurring in these United States today comes from the corporate-fascist state’s attack against average citizens. It doesn’t matter what color or gender you are. If you are weak, poor and vulnerable you are ripe for the picking. Until people see the battle lines clearly, it will be very difficult to achieve real change. Most people are divided and conquered along their superficial little tribal affiliations, and they completely miss the bigger picture to the peril of society. Which is why women will support Hillary just because she’s a woman, not caring in the least that she is a compromised, corrupt oligarch stooge.

In case you have any doubt about how little your opinion matters when it comes to the rights of police to rob you blind, read the following excerpts from the Wall Street Journal:

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Read that sentence over and over again until you get it. This is a free country?

Critics have taken aim at the confiscatory powers over concerns that authorities have too much latitude and often too strong a financial incentive when deciding whether to seize property suspected of being tied to criminal activity.

But after New Mexico passed a law this spring hailed by civil-liberties groups as a breakthrough in their effort to rein in states’ forfeiture programs, prosecutor and police associations stepped up their own lobbying campaign, warning legislators that passing such laws would deprive them of a potent crime-fighting tool and rip a hole in law-enforcement budgets.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

“What happened in those states is a testament to the power of the law-enforcement lobby,” said Scott Bullock, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning advocacy group that has led a push for laws giving property owners more protections. 

It seems the only people in America without a powerful lobby group are actual American citizens. See: Charting the American Oligarchy – How 0.01% of the Population Contributes 42% of All Campaign Cash

Prosecutors say forfeiture laws help ensure that drug traffickers, white-collar thieves and other wrongdoers can’t enjoy the fruits of their misdeeds and help curb crime by depriving criminals of the “tools” of their trade. Under federal law and in many states, a conviction isn’t required.

“White-collar thieves,” they say. Yet I haven’t seen a single bank executive’s assets confiscated. Rather, they received taxpayer bailout funds with which to pay themselves record bonuses after wrecking the global economy. Don’t forget:

The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally

In Texas, lawmakers introduced more than a dozen bills addressing forfeiture during this year’s legislative session, which ended Monday. Some would either force the government to meet a higher burden of proof or subject forfeiture programs to more stringent financial disclosure rules and audits. 

But only one bill, which law-enforcement officials didn’t object to, ultimately passed. It requires the state attorney general to publish an annual report of forfeited funds based on data submitted by local authorities. That information, at the moment, is only accessible through freedom-of-information requests.

This is what a corporate-statist oligarchy looks like.

Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, said local enforcement officers and prosecutors “educated their legislators about how asset forfeiture really works in Texas.”

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan last month vetoed a bill that would, among other things, prohibit the state from turning over seized property to the federal government unless the owner has been charged with a federal crime or gives consent.

Remember, the terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Prosecutors said the Tenaha episode was an isolated breakdown in the system. “Everybody knows there are bad eggs out there,” Karen Morris, who supervises the Harris County district attorney’s forfeiture unit, told Texas lawmakers at a hearing this spring. “But we don’t stop prosecuting people for murder just because some district attorneys have made mistakes.”

When police aren’t out there stealing your hard earned assets without a trial or charges, they can often be found pounding on citizens for kicks. I came across the following three headlines this morning alone as I was the scanning news.

Cop Exonerated After Being Caught on Video Brutally Beating A Tourist Who Asked For A Tampon

Kids in Police-Run Youth Camp Allegedly Beaten, Threatened By Cops

Florida Cop Charged With On-Duty Child Abuse; Suspended With Pay

This is not what freedom looks like.

For related articles, see:

The DEA Strikes Again – Agents Seize Man’s Life Savings Under Civil Asset Forfeiture Without Charges

Asset Forfeiture – How Cops Continue to Steal Americans’ Hard Earned Cash with Zero Repercussions

Quote of the Day – An Incredible Statement from the City Attorney of Las Cruces, New Mexico

“Common People Do Not Carry This Much U.S. Currency…” – This is How Police Justify Stealing American Citizens’ Money

In Liberty, Michael Krieger

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#147. To: misterwhite (#140)

When you post crap like this, you lose credibility. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture so you don't look so foolish.

Maybe with you, but when did I ever have any credibility with you that I would consider worth having? Your statement that smears my opinion will do more damage that my actual opinion.

I do know what civil asset forfeiture, and I do know what could happen if I have money or other items on my person and I am detained, however briefly, by law enforcement. That does not solve the gaping loopholes in the current statutes that say that if they "think" my property was involved in a crime, that I am free to go, but the property is not. If my property was involved in a crime, then the criminals should be arrested. Sure the property should be detained, as long as the criminal is detained right alongside it.

I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated? Keep in mind that just because someone does not consent to a search does not mean the police "cannot" search. In my situation, if the police "thought" that the cash I had was connected to a crime, real or imaginary, the money would likely be "detained" while I might be free to go. I would have no certainty that the money would be returned, and in some instances there may not be an evidence receipt given to me stating that I even had it (confirmed by my local police department when asked about it - the actual phrase was "[we] don't have to prove anything; you have to prove [we] have your property").

We are not discussing the current ethics of LEOs, we are discussing the possibility and often documented abuse of civil asset forfeiture in the context of statutes that are vaguely written and loosly enforced that just happen to be what police departments are leaning on for financial support.

Would you be outraged if banks insisted on gouging on overdraft fees, even if some of those overdrafts are created from electronic shell games designed to sometime cause overdrafts due to vague funds availability schedules? I know I am, and have been in that situation. Of course the bank reversed the penalties when I pointed out their errors, but just imagine if they maintain that practice because "we rely on those funds" to continue business. Yes, consumers can be careless with their debit cards, but that does not stop banks from taking advantage of that fact.

The reason I speak out about this subject, and many others, is because I have personal experience with some aspect of the subject, or will be affected financial or socially by the subject. I am not just spraying words to fill a text box, or troll a forum. There are more effective ways that my approach for that stuff.

By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself". But then again, when have I ever seen you do that?

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   14:28:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Gatlin, TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz, the first pautard is born 2007 -GrandIsland (#142)

The hondo68 analogical inference does not involve the shared properties of two or more common things and [blah, blah, blah.....]

Way back in '07 GrandIsland was a genuine pautard himself. Yes he loved Ron Paul for a short time, before his head exploded from too much liberty.

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-08   14:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: hondo68 (#148)

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.

I never really disliked the kook. He has many great ideas.... and yes, he has a few over the top ideas. What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

Does the shoe fit? lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   15:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: GrandIsland (#149)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I know that to be true in my case. I got completely disgusted with them.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   15:34:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: GrandIsland, hondo68 (#149)

What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

When I wrote about Ron Paul and his naivete about Iran in Washington Times Communities (Ron Paul is wrong: Ahmadinejad’s Iran is armed and dangerous), my inbox was flooded by either nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, or crude comments from Ron Paul zealots. Many of the responses were incoherent–few were surprisingly reasonable, although the majority of them were cacophonous and painful to read. Enjoy….here.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   16:00:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: TheFireBert (#147)

"By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself".

Usually I do. But when someone posts the crap like you did -- implying that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize -- I don't feel any obligation "to actually add positive information to the discussion".

"I do know what civil asset forfeiture (is) ..."

I don't think you do. Not when you believe that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize.

"If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated?

Decide how? Toss a coin? Roll dice? What are you talking about?

First, if you were stopped, they need a reason for stopping you. Second, they need probable cause (or your consent) to search your vehicle.

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   16:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Gatlin (#150)

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I can tell ya this, the most vile of the Ron Paul cult are hateful towards Rand... and that just makes me wanna vote for Rand even more. lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   18:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Gatlin (#150) (Edited)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

Losing your memory old timer?

Or just more revisionist history on your part?

Go back and look at those threads - it was the anti-Ron Paul faction led by you, byeltsin, Byteshredder (remember that foul-mouthed tool?) and of course yukon (you remember the gay porn lover, right?) who were fouling the forum with lies.

As if you got your talking points from neo-con central.

This thread makes my point succinctly.

Why are so many Ron Paul acolytes, vile, obnoxious, foul, libtard cowards?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: misterwhite (#152)

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

You are absolutely right, those are assumptions.

I gave you the details, from experience I know what can happen.

You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen. From the numerous stories that are published, and with many peoples personal experiences, many of the CAF critics have solid reason to believe otherwise.

But by all mean, keep assuming (or at least making an ass- out of -u- and... you get the point).

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   19:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: misterwhite (#152)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-08   19:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Deckard (#154)

...VILE PEOPLE…

Go back and look at those threads …

As if you got your talking points from neo-con central.

I don’t need to go look at anything because I’m not talking about LP, you narrow-minded Buffon.

Everyone knew that even as Ron Paul conceded, he was still asking his supporters to be civil and cease the disruptions they were causing. It was clear that “Paul didn’t want to be associated with some of the moves his supporters made which caused resentment and frustration to others.” Paul’s famously uncontrolled supporters did not listen to him.

And that did not come from any neo-con central talking point….it came from eyewitnesses.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:26:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman? (#151)

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

When I wrote about Ron Paul and his naivete about Iran in Washington Times Communities (Ron Paul is wrong: Ahmadinejad’s Iran is armed and dangerous), my inbox was flooded by either nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, or crude comments from Ron Paul zealots. Many of the responses were incoherent–few were surprisingly reasonable, although the majority of them were cacophonous and painful to read. Enjoy….here.

Gabriella Hoffman is a senior at UC-San Diego who balances life as a student with life as a conservative activist. She’s majoring in Political Science and minoring in History. She serves as the Executive Assistant on The Rick Amato Show, and produces the “Top Young Con of the Week” segment each Monday. beforeitsnews.co m/contributor/pages/67/016/bio.html

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-08   19:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: Gatlin (#157)

I don’t need to go look at anything

Yeah, who can blame you?

It's more comfortable for you to remember what you want to remember instead of the actual facts.

What happened to Gatlin the "truth-seeker"?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Gatlin (#157)

Everyone knew that even as Ron Paul conceded, he was still asking his supporters to be civil and cease the disruptions they were causing.

Whether or not that is true, the fact remains that you and the canary clan over at LP were the instigators and foul mouthed neanderthals on any of the Ron Paul threads.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: A K A Stone, misterwhite (#156)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:36:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: Deckard (#160)

Whether or not that is true...

It is true. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant and immaterial to the stated fact.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   19:38:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: A K A Stone (#156)

until you could explain where the money came from

Innocent until proven guilty right.

See - it's the money that is considered guilty.

You can be completely innocent of any crime, but the badged highwaymen can still steal your money.

We live in Bizarro World.

It's like the liberals - guns are evil, not the person.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Gatlin (#162)

The rest of your sentence is irrelevant and immaterial to the stated fact.

The rest of my sentence is completely relevant, Ron Paul's alleged statements not withstanding.

The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:42:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: tpaine, Gatlin has come a long way baby, trans whatever (#158)

Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-08   19:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: hondo68 (#165)

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

Nothing surprises me these days.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   20:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: hondo68 (#165)

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

That will make yukon very unhappy.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:10:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: All (#164)

Deckard ~ The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

Like this?

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin!

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul hondo68 posted on 2015-06-08 19:53:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Or this ?

If Bruce Jenner can change sexes, so can Gatlin! Nothing surprises me these days.

Fred Mertz posted on 2015-06-08 20:01:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   20:11:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: GrandIsland, Fred Mertz, hondo68 (#168)

The fact is, On Liberty Post, the vehement rage and obscene comments were the sole work of the anti-Paul faction.

#8. To: Dead Culture Watch (#5)

On the flip side (for me anyway)... I can't stand PAULTARD because of his asshole cult. The only way I'd vote for the quack is if he was my LAST chance at unseating the Kenyan.

GrandIsland  posted on  2012-06-14   1:37:56 ET  

#23. To: Has A Clue (#19)

Yourself, Yukon, Whitesands and the rest of the Neocon-corupted BS ilk had better watch out - because we are coming - Ron Paul 2012!

F*ck off PAULTARD.

We want a conservative for prez... not a (D) on crack, aka a Liberterian... hippie, pothead... Drug loving... open border... terrorist supporting cock breath that wants to taxes the rich.

GrandIsland  posted on  2011-12-19   16:36:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace  

#38. To: Parrot with Speed Dial (#33)

Look for Cheney to appear on TV .......suggesting Ron Paul is Al Qeada.

All I want Cheney to do.. is take Paultard duck hunting.

GrandIsland  posted on  2011-12-19   18:12:17 ET

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: GrandIsland (#168)

Believe what you like, but vile unsolicited attacks are made by the AGENDA posters.

#158. To: Gatlin, is posting elsewhere as Gabriella Hoffman? (#151)

Gatlin posted at # 151 : ---

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

Gatlin provided links at #151, that led to the 'hate mail' supposedly received by Gabrielle Hoffman.. Wondering if gatlin was posting as Hoffman is a reasonable question, not an 'unsolicited attack', as even you must admit.. ---- Correct?

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-08   20:31:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Deckard (#159)

What happened to Gatlin the "truth-seeker"?

He became Gatlin the "truth-finder!"

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   20:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: Gatlin (#171)

He became Gatlin the "truth-finder!

Apparently not.

Otherwise you would admit that you and the other anti-Paul trolls spammed those threads with your childishly obscene garbage.

You couldn't find "truth" with both hands and a flashlight.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   20:57:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: Deckard (#169)

Can't you ever do anything that is original.

Copy and paste....and when that fails, you then resort to regurgitation.

Nobody bothers to read this shit you drag up....get a life.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Deckard (#172)

I admit that the truth was told about Paultards.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Deckard (#160)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Deckard (#164)

The fact is,

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:03:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Gatlin (#161)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.

His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.

No warrant was issued.

No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-08   21:04:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Deckard (#172)

When I can find truth, then truth finds me.

My magnetic charm attracts it.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   21:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Gatlin (#175)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

Or should I call you Gaby?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Gatlin (#173)

Copy and paste

That's right - proving once again that you and GI both have misrepresented yourselves as "the voices of reason".

You don't like the facts?

Too bad.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: Gatlin (#176)

Deckard is as liberal as Rev Al Sharpton. Fat Al still brings up slavery as a reason black people still act uncivil... and Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP. Like fat Al, Deckard feels what was said on LP is a valid reason to shit on Stone, here on LF. THIS IS WHY THE AGENDA POSTERS KEEP HARPING ABOUT LP. The trouble makers even still bitch about FR. lol

There is a pattern of disruptive behavior.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   21:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Gatlin (#176)

That fact is that Paultards were UNCONTROLLED FANATICS....

That is simply untrue.

Of course that is how you remember the exchanges - more's the pity.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: GrandIsland (#181)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

You misrepresented yourself by claiming that you were the voice of reason on the Ron Paul threads.

I am waiting patiently for the day when you finally lose it and your real personality begins to show up.

We've already noticed that you are having a more difficult time keeping your rage under control.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   21:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: A K A Stone (#177)

I believe the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty means under Justinian Codes and English Common law the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial....and not during an arrest. I may be wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

His right to be secure in his person was violated.
His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
No warrant was issued.
No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

We were discussing “innocent until proven guilty.” You now “change horses in the middle of the stream” and switch the discussion to the “right of the people.” Okay, let’s look at that.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
I need to catch up with you. I have to go slow, after all I am well into being an octogenarian, so I have to lay things out carefully. I must find out “who” the “his” is, you are talking about. Back up the post to 161, no “his” there. Back on up for there to 156, no “his” there. Back on up to post 152 which is the post you responded to when you stated “innocent until proven guilty.” The “his” there is from 147. So, we must back on up to 147 where we find TheFiredBert presented a hypothetical.
I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped … [Boldness Added].
He said “if’ he were stopped. Since he was not stopped. Then I don’t understand how it is said that:
     His right to be secure in his person was violated.
     His ritht to be secure in his papers was violated.
     No warrant was issued.
     No one gave an oath or affirmation that described what was to be searched for and where.

Had he been stopped, then:

Can the Police Legitimately Search My Vehicle Without a Warrant?

The Fourth Amendment's protection against unlawful search and seizure generally makes arbitrary police car searches illegal. If the police search your car without a warrant, your permission, or a valid reason, they are violating your constitutional rights. Nevertheless, police can search a car without a warrant in a number of circumstances. [Underline Boldness Added]

Courts generally give police more leeway to search a vehicle than a home. Under the "automobile exception" to the search warrant requirement, individuals have less of an expectation of privacy when driving a car. It’s worth noting that states are also free to provide more protections to individual’s privacy rights.

When Can Police Do a Warrantless Search?

Not every police search must be made pursuant to a lawfully executed warrant. The Supreme Court has ruled that warrantless police conduct may comply with the Fourth Amendment, so long as it is reasonable under the circumstances.

So, when can police search your car? Generally, under the following circumstances:

  1. You have given the officer consent
  2. The officer has probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime in your vehicle
  3. The officer reasonably believes a search is necessary for their own protection (a hidden weapon, for example)
  4. You have been arrested and the search is related to that arrest (such as a search for illegal drugs)

Automobiles may be stopped if an officer possesses a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the motorist has violated a traffic law. If the reason for the stop is a minor traffic offense like speeding, the officer likely isn’t permitted to search your car without more reason. However, if police arrest for conduct arising out of a traffic stop, a search of your vehicle incident to arrest will usually be allowed.

Police Can Search Impounded Cars Without a Warrant

If the police have towed and impounded your car, they have the authority to search your vehicle. This search can be as comprehensive as the police wish, and will most likely include opening any locked compartments or boxes found within your car. The reason for your car getting towed and impounded does not matter. It could be for something as simple as a parking violation or as serious as a car theft.

Police cannot tow and impound your car for the sole purpose of searching it, however. Police are required to follow strict procedures when it comes to these types of searches.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/can-the-police- legitimately-search-my-vehicle-without-a-warrant.html.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: DeckardM GrandIsland (#183)

Deckard can't let go of the old, outdated and defunct LP

You and Gatlin started down this path.

No Sir, GI and I did not dredge old insignificant space fillers up from LP and bring them over here to prove NOTHING.

You, sport....did that.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Fred Mertz, GrandIsland (#179)

The fact remains that we presented the truth.

Who is this we Kimosabe?

The "we" is GrandIsland and I, Aweless

Or should I call you Gaby?
No, you should call me: Sir.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Deckard (#180)

You don't like the facts?

Au contraire....I love facts.

Bullshit unrelated to the current subject at hand....I can definitely do without.

That is all your copy and past is...

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   22:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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