[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"International court’s attack on Israel a sign of the free world’s moral collapse"

"Pete Hegseth Is Right for the DOD"

"Why Our Constitution Secures Liberty, Not Democracy"

Woodworking and Construction Hacks

"CNN: Reporters Were Crying and Hugging in the Hallways After Learning of Matt Gaetz's AG Nomination"

"NEW: Democrat Officials Move to Steal the Senate Race in Pennsylvania, Admit to Breaking the Law"

"Pete Hegseth Is a Disruptive Choice for Secretary of Defense. That’s a Good Thing"

Katie Britt will vote with the McConnell machine

Battle for Senate leader heats up — Hit pieces coming from Thune and Cornyn.

After Trump’s Victory, There Can Be No Unity Without A Reckoning

Vivek Ramaswamy, Dark-horse Secretary of State Candidate

Megyn Kelly has a message for Democrats. Wait for the ending.

Trump to choose Tom Homan as his “Border Czar”

"Trump Shows Demography Isn’t Destiny"

"Democrats Get a Wake-Up Call about How Unpopular Their Agenda Really Is"

Live Election Map with ticker shows every winner.

Megyn Kelly Joins Trump at His Final PA Rally of 2024 and Explains Why She's Supporting Him

South Carolina Lawmaker at Trump Rally Highlights Story of 3-Year-Old Maddie Hines, Killed by Illegal Alien

GOP Demands Biden, Harris Launch Probe into Twice-Deported Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Grayson Davis

Previously-Deported Illegal Charged With Killing Arkansas Children’s Hospital Nurse in Horror DUI Crash

New Data on Migrant Crime Rates Raises Eyebrows, Alarms

Thousands of 'potentially fraudulent voter registration applications' Uncovered, Stopped in Pennsylvania

Michigan Will Count Ballot of Chinese National Charged with Voting Illegally

"It Did Occur" - Kentucky County Clerk Confirms Voting Booth 'Glitch'' Shifted Trump Votes To Kamala

Legendary Astronaut Buzz Aldrin 'wholeheartedly' Endorses Donald Trump

Liberal Icon Naomi Wolf Endorses Trump: 'He's Being More Inclusive'

(Washed Up Has Been) Singer Joni Mitchell Screams 'F*** Trump' at Hollywood Bowl

"Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race"

He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage

The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom!

"Kamala’s Inane Talking Points"

"The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics"

Easy Drywall Patch

Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast

In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind"

Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’

Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens

Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer?

hurricanes and heat waves are Worse

'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic

Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump

IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons

Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training

The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses

Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists

Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general

Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep

Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA.

Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence.


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Land of the Unfree – Police and Prosecutors Fight Aggressively to Retain Barbaric Right of “Civil Asset Forfeiture”
Source: Liberty Blitzkrieg
URL Source: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/0 ... ght-of-civil-asset-forfeiture/
Published: Jun 4, 2015
Author: Michael Krieger
Post Date: 2015-06-05 10:21:58 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 39132
Comments: 215

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

– From the Wall Street Journal article: Efforts to Curb Asset Seizures by Law Enforcement Hit Headwinds

googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1403197269028-0'); });

The fact that civil asset forfeiture continues to exist across the American landscape despite outrage and considerable media attention, is as good an example as any as to how far fallen and uncivilized our so-called “society” has become. It also proves the point demonstrated in a Princeton University study that the U.S. is not a democracy, and the desires of the people have no impact on how the country is governed.

Civil asset forfeiture was first highlighted on these pages in the 2013 post, Why You Should Never, Ever Drive Through Tenaha, Texas, in which I explained:

In a nutshell, civil forfeiture is the practice of confiscating items from people, ranging from cash, cars, even homes based on no criminal conviction or charges, merely suspicion. This practice first became widespread for use against pirates, as a way to take possession of contraband goods despite the fact that the ships’ owners in many cases were located thousands of miles away and couldn’t easily be prosecuted. As is often the case, what starts out reasonable becomes a gigantic organized crime ring of criminality, particularly in a society where the rule of law no longer exists for the “elite,” yet anything goes when it comes to pillaging the average citizen.

One of the major reasons these programs have become so abused is that the police departments themselves are able to keep much of the confiscated money. So they actually have a perverse incentive to steal. As might be expected, a program that is often touted as being effective against going after major drug kingpins, actually targets the poor and disenfranchised more than anything else.

Civil asset forfeiture is state-sanctioned theft. There is no other way around it. The entire concept violates the spirit of the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments to the Constitution. In case you have any doubt:

The 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 6th Amendment: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Civil asset forfeiture is a civil rights issue, and it should be seen as such by everyone. Just because it targets the entire population as opposed to a specific race, gender or sexual orientation doesn’t make it less important.

The problem with opposition in America today is that people aren’t seeing modern battle lines clearly. The greatest friction and abuse occurring in these United States today comes from the corporate-fascist state’s attack against average citizens. It doesn’t matter what color or gender you are. If you are weak, poor and vulnerable you are ripe for the picking. Until people see the battle lines clearly, it will be very difficult to achieve real change. Most people are divided and conquered along their superficial little tribal affiliations, and they completely miss the bigger picture to the peril of society. Which is why women will support Hillary just because she’s a woman, not caring in the least that she is a compromised, corrupt oligarch stooge.

In case you have any doubt about how little your opinion matters when it comes to the rights of police to rob you blind, read the following excerpts from the Wall Street Journal:

Efforts to limit seizures of money, homes and other property from people who may never be convicted of a crime are stalling out amid a wave of pressure from prosecutors and police.

Read that sentence over and over again until you get it. This is a free country?

Critics have taken aim at the confiscatory powers over concerns that authorities have too much latitude and often too strong a financial incentive when deciding whether to seize property suspected of being tied to criminal activity.

But after New Mexico passed a law this spring hailed by civil-liberties groups as a breakthrough in their effort to rein in states’ forfeiture programs, prosecutor and police associations stepped up their own lobbying campaign, warning legislators that passing such laws would deprive them of a potent crime-fighting tool and rip a hole in law-enforcement budgets.

Their effort, at least at the state level, appears to be working. At least a dozen states considered bills restricting or even abolishing forfeiture that isn’t accompanied by a conviction or gives law enforcement less control over forfeited proceeds. But most measures failed to pass.

“What happened in those states is a testament to the power of the law-enforcement lobby,” said Scott Bullock, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning advocacy group that has led a push for laws giving property owners more protections. 

It seems the only people in America without a powerful lobby group are actual American citizens. See: Charting the American Oligarchy – How 0.01% of the Population Contributes 42% of All Campaign Cash

Prosecutors say forfeiture laws help ensure that drug traffickers, white-collar thieves and other wrongdoers can’t enjoy the fruits of their misdeeds and help curb crime by depriving criminals of the “tools” of their trade. Under federal law and in many states, a conviction isn’t required.

“White-collar thieves,” they say. Yet I haven’t seen a single bank executive’s assets confiscated. Rather, they received taxpayer bailout funds with which to pay themselves record bonuses after wrecking the global economy. Don’t forget:

The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally

In Texas, lawmakers introduced more than a dozen bills addressing forfeiture during this year’s legislative session, which ended Monday. Some would either force the government to meet a higher burden of proof or subject forfeiture programs to more stringent financial disclosure rules and audits. 

But only one bill, which law-enforcement officials didn’t object to, ultimately passed. It requires the state attorney general to publish an annual report of forfeited funds based on data submitted by local authorities. That information, at the moment, is only accessible through freedom-of-information requests.

This is what a corporate-statist oligarchy looks like.

Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, said local enforcement officers and prosecutors “educated their legislators about how asset forfeiture really works in Texas.”

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan last month vetoed a bill that would, among other things, prohibit the state from turning over seized property to the federal government unless the owner has been charged with a federal crime or gives consent.

Remember, the terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Prosecutors said the Tenaha episode was an isolated breakdown in the system. “Everybody knows there are bad eggs out there,” Karen Morris, who supervises the Harris County district attorney’s forfeiture unit, told Texas lawmakers at a hearing this spring. “But we don’t stop prosecuting people for murder just because some district attorneys have made mistakes.”

When police aren’t out there stealing your hard earned assets without a trial or charges, they can often be found pounding on citizens for kicks. I came across the following three headlines this morning alone as I was the scanning news.

Cop Exonerated After Being Caught on Video Brutally Beating A Tourist Who Asked For A Tampon

Kids in Police-Run Youth Camp Allegedly Beaten, Threatened By Cops

Florida Cop Charged With On-Duty Child Abuse; Suspended With Pay

This is not what freedom looks like.

For related articles, see:

The DEA Strikes Again – Agents Seize Man’s Life Savings Under Civil Asset Forfeiture Without Charges

Asset Forfeiture – How Cops Continue to Steal Americans’ Hard Earned Cash with Zero Repercussions

Quote of the Day – An Incredible Statement from the City Attorney of Las Cruces, New Mexico

“Common People Do Not Carry This Much U.S. Currency…” – This is How Police Justify Stealing American Citizens’ Money

In Liberty, Michael Krieger

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-114) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#115. To: Deckard, A K A Stone, LF Saboteur (#23)

#23. To: Gatlin (#22)

A obscene remark does nothing to inspire a serious debate.

When have you [Gatlin] ever been interested in a "serious debate" leather-boy canary clown?

Answer: NEVER.

You deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.

Sure, he a discredited fraud who needs to spend a year a psychiatric ward, and but let's not forget...he needs our sympathy.

It's not good news whether Gatlin is just a low-level troll supporting a fascist police state and hating on Christians and liberty...or just doing what he does in his spare time: Being a clownish disruptor (when he's not unhealthily and repeatedly popping Viagra while posting threads on misguided Pastors for the sole purpose of using Liberty's Flame as a G00gle-beacon.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-07   11:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: TheFireBert, Y'ALL (#112)

I guess now either GI or Gatlin is going to argue that the text was originally posted on LP instead of LF, thus making the claim "technically" true while ignoring the fact that GI does babble in this type of behavior constantly.

I would not have even responded if I did not experience some of his antics in LP threads myself. GrandIsland, misterwhite, Gatlin, yukon, and many others exhibit the same common behaviors that become quite memorable (and sometimes disgusting for a couple of those screen names).

...unless PAULTARDs hacked his ID, of course! LOL

TheFireBert

I'd guess that because -- Grandislandan misterwhite, Gatlin, yukon, and many others exhibit the same common behaviors, --- that we should all just assume that they are ALL disruptive troll personas, --- personas probably used by a smaller group of very mentally disturbed individuals.

However, because they are on, occasion, amusing, we should tolerate their idiocies; -- while we spare no effort to make them look as stupid as they are..

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   11:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Gatlin (#114)

...the honorable thing to do.

"Honor"?? Isn't that Kryptonite to you?

Stop making a fool of yourself at an age where you should know better.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-07   11:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Gatlin (#114) (Edited)

I sincerely believe you to be an honorable person.

I sincerely believe you to be an dishonorable (FAKE) persona, based on your posts over the last few years, both here and at LP.

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   11:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Fred Mertz (#113)

Don’t continue to embarrass yourself but trying to hide behind sarcasm.
Just disown your fallacious comment: “Great job! GI gets slammed as a liar.”

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:47:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: tpaine (#118)

What gave you that idea?? :) {chuckle}

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   11:47:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Liberator, Gatlin, Pericles (#115)

Answer: NEVER.

Especially when you embarrass him with another side of the story that proves him wrong, then he puts you on bozo.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   11:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: CZ82 (#121)

{chuckle}

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-07   11:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Gatlin (#122)

{chuckle}

Did I need to specify which logon you use to bozo people?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-07   12:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Gatlin (#119)

"ON THIS SITE".... No matter how YELLA they spin it... still means POSTED HERE. lol

No need to argue with them... let's all move on. This site needs civility.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   12:43:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: GrandIsland (#124)

--- let's all move on. This site needs civility.

--- Says a notably uncivil disruptor.

Gotta love the chutzpah...

tpaine  posted on  2015-06-07   12:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: Deckard, Moderator X (#63)

Apparently Mod X is a Gatlin sycophant.

Most moderators on a private, little out of the way and totally obscure place on the Internet have their preferences for viewing comments.

This same scenario happened on John Deere's Liberty Forum; it was perhaps the LARGEST gathering of people on the planet. It is no longer on-line as John died.

But, he tried to administer "like" minds with no clear result other than piles of do-nothing moderators that subdued the information content not recognizing their own bias or prejudice actually operated contrary to idea or concept of the channel. There was little admin about moderators and as a result continuous streaming of complaints with no real improvement about the channel information and data interchange.

I affectionately describe the phenomena as: "cat herding." It can not be done no matter how many moderators attempt to subdue information.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   13:20:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: tpaine (#125)

--- let's all move on.

Gotta love the chutzpah...

LEO's are free to steal whatever they want and call it "asset forfeiture", no wonder the JBT canaries want to "move on".org.

In the old days it was called highway robbery.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-07   14:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: buckeroo, Tin Foilers (#126)

FYI, John Deere was murdered by Prescott Bush in the basement of the Silverado S&L.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-07   14:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Liberator, Deckard, A K A Stone, Tater (#115)

Being a clownish disruptor [gatlin, Tater, etc.] (when he's not unhealthily and repeatedly popping Viagra while posting threads on misguided Pastors for the sole purpose of using Liberty's Flame as a G00gle-beacon.)

I saw a few of these tater threads. But, aren't they designed for an agenda? I was oddly struck when tater was permitted to perform his "everyday" paperboy stunts a few months ago. Tater made piles of threads on a daily basis to ensure his immediate propaganda was commented upon.

Very strange behaviour by a mere poster, as an opinion. He seems to have discontinued that sort of activity. Today, tater has lost his enthusiasm for daily paperboy deliveries and sublimated his lust for deviant expectations about religious matters. Tomorrow, he shall welcome more expected income from the US Government covering his personal bills because he spent twenty years peelin' potatoes for the US AirForce in the barracks.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   14:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Vinny (#128)

FYI, John Deere was murdered by Prescott Bush in the basement of the Silverado S&L.

Hey Vinny!

Don't give me any shit. There are reasons why I rarely comment on your pure publick and out of the place BS. This is another one.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-07   14:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GrandIsland (#124)

"ON THIS SITE".... No matter how YELLA they spin it... still means POSTED HERE. lol

I know exactly what you mean:

"Because I called people PAULTARDS on Liberty Post, but did not utter the same phrase on Liberty's Flame, my claim that I did not post it "ON THIS SITE" would remain true."

Although technically true, you cannot escape the past. Your posting history is well known and this site is, for all intents and purposes, a stand in for Liberty Post.

Just stick to the topics and avoid defending yourself with technicalities. It will only make your argument look weak and add fuel to your detractors.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   14:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: buckeroo (#129)

He seems to have discontinued that sort of activity.

I am not so sure he has given his routine a rest.

He seems to have shifted his focus to posting LEO-positive articles and negative pieces about Christian religious leaders (pastors). It is almost as if he relishes being the counterpoint to all discussions on this site.

I wonder; if the content here was more left leaning, would he then start posting more reasonable content? A curious experiment indeed.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   14:57:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: Gatlin, GrandIsland (#114)

Just graciously admit you made a mistake.

Although you may not believe it so, what I posted was a direct quote. That is still a fact even when you consider that it was a re-post from another thread.

If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.

Just as we take direct quotes that journalists distribute as truth, we can think of hondo68 as a reporter, distributing a direct quote for the benefit of the site.

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-07   15:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: TheFireBert, Gatlin (#132)

His leftist views ago way way back.

I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-07   16:49:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: TheFireBert (#133)

If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.

I never claimed any such thing... nor have I ever suggested I did. What I cla

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-07   17:10:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Deckard (#134)

His leftist views ago way way back.

I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

That would make sense since his latest idol also wielded the IRS and FBI against his critics when the events escalated. A full third-termer, none the less!

I wonder if Mr. Obama is thinking of pulling a FDR in Chicago to get his Emperor-ship started? All that is needed is a WWIII, amirite?!?

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   3:24:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: Gatlin, Whatever other logon you're using (#122)

Wow that didn't last long I came off bozo for you to answer and now I'm back on it within a matter of hours.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-06-08   8:22:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: CZ82 (#137)

Wow that didn't last long I came off bozo for you to answer and now I'm back on it within a matter of hours.

I'm just "havin fun messin wit ya, Willis."

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   8:53:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: Deckard, TheFireBert (#134)

His leftist views ago way way back. I campaigned for Roosevelt. Not Teddy, Franklin of course.

You never get anything right….but then, everyone has come to expect that.

I was an - Equal Opportunity Non-Affiliated Political Party Paid Advertiser - See Last Paragraph.

I was paid a whole quarter for my unique ability and challenging effort….big money for a kid back then.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   9:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: TheFireBert (#102)

"Perhaps if the LEOs were not spending much of their time turning over innocent rocks to find loot they would not even be needed"

Is that what you think the cops are doing -- detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize?

When you post crap like this, you lose credibility. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture so you don't look so foolish.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   9:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: misterwhite (#140)

Is that what you think the cops are doing -- detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize?

In too many cases, yes.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-08   9:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz (#133)

Just graciously admit you made a mistake.
Although you may not believe it so, what I posted was a direct quote. That is still a fact even when you consider that it was a re-post from another thread.
If GrandIsland wishes to deny that the phrase that was posted on that thread is not his own, let him make his own claim.
Just as we take direct quotes that journalists distribute as truth, we can think of hondo68 as a reporter, distributing a direct quote for the benefit of the site.

You simply made a mistake, no big deal….just let it go.
You were aching too much to give GrandIsalnd a smack down.
Therefore, you splashed your Challenge Accepted gif too quickly,
and with the absence of completely thorough and proper research.

You are also too quick to instruct me what I should let GrandIsland do.
By trying to do that, you are displaying quite a bit of hypocrisy....
since the original dialogue was between GrandIsland and tpaine.
You grabbed the gauntlet out of tpaine’s hand and injected yourself,
when you should have “let him make his own claim.” (Your Words).

The hondo68 analogical inference does not involve the shared properties of
two or more common things and is therefore logically fallacious. Nice try, though.

I respectfully suggest we now move on…since there is nothing more here.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   10:01:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: rlk (#141)

"In too many cases, yes."

If that's what you really belive, fine. I'll just add you to my special category:

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   10:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: misterwhite (#143)

"In too many cases, yes."

If that's what you really belive, fine. I'll just add you to my special category...

Nobody cares about your special category except you and some other kooks.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-08   10:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Gatlin (#139)

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you clearly admitted.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   10:09:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Deckard (#145) (Edited)

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you clearly admitted.


HERE....BOSS

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   11:33:16 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: misterwhite (#140)

When you post crap like this, you lose credibility. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture so you don't look so foolish.

Maybe with you, but when did I ever have any credibility with you that I would consider worth having? Your statement that smears my opinion will do more damage that my actual opinion.

I do know what civil asset forfeiture, and I do know what could happen if I have money or other items on my person and I am detained, however briefly, by law enforcement. That does not solve the gaping loopholes in the current statutes that say that if they "think" my property was involved in a crime, that I am free to go, but the property is not. If my property was involved in a crime, then the criminals should be arrested. Sure the property should be detained, as long as the criminal is detained right alongside it.

I was carrying $1500 from my bank to my landlord the other day in a vehicle that could be considered "stereotypical" for drug dealers and other unsavory persons in my city. If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated? Keep in mind that just because someone does not consent to a search does not mean the police "cannot" search. In my situation, if the police "thought" that the cash I had was connected to a crime, real or imaginary, the money would likely be "detained" while I might be free to go. I would have no certainty that the money would be returned, and in some instances there may not be an evidence receipt given to me stating that I even had it (confirmed by my local police department when asked about it - the actual phrase was "[we] don't have to prove anything; you have to prove [we] have your property").

We are not discussing the current ethics of LEOs, we are discussing the possibility and often documented abuse of civil asset forfeiture in the context of statutes that are vaguely written and loosly enforced that just happen to be what police departments are leaning on for financial support.

Would you be outraged if banks insisted on gouging on overdraft fees, even if some of those overdrafts are created from electronic shell games designed to sometime cause overdrafts due to vague funds availability schedules? I know I am, and have been in that situation. Of course the bank reversed the penalties when I pointed out their errors, but just imagine if they maintain that practice because "we rely on those funds" to continue business. Yes, consumers can be careless with their debit cards, but that does not stop banks from taking advantage of that fact.

The reason I speak out about this subject, and many others, is because I have personal experience with some aspect of the subject, or will be affected financial or socially by the subject. I am not just spraying words to fill a text box, or troll a forum. There are more effective ways that my approach for that stuff.

By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself". But then again, when have I ever seen you do that?

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   14:28:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Gatlin, TheFireBert, GrandIsland, Fred Mertz, the first pautard is born 2007 -GrandIsland (#142)

The hondo68 analogical inference does not involve the shared properties of two or more common things and [blah, blah, blah.....]

Way back in '07 GrandIsland was a genuine pautard himself. Yes he loved Ron Paul for a short time, before his head exploded from too much liberty.

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-06-08   14:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: hondo68 (#148)

Somewhere in the archives of LP there's a post, where GI gushes about how wonderful Ron Paul is.

I never really disliked the kook. He has many great ideas.... and yes, he has a few over the top ideas. What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

Does the shoe fit? lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   15:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: GrandIsland (#149)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I know that to be true in my case. I got completely disgusted with them.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   15:34:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: GrandIsland, hondo68 (#149)

What I loathed were most of his AGENDA supporters. People, VILE PEOPLE, not posting for discussion but only to sell Ron Paul.

I thought it would be funny and equally entertaining to display some of the outrageous hate mail I’ve received from Ron Paul supporters, a.k.a. Paulistinians/Paulbots.

When I wrote about Ron Paul and his naivete about Iran in Washington Times Communities (Ron Paul is wrong: Ahmadinejad’s Iran is armed and dangerous), my inbox was flooded by either nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, or crude comments from Ron Paul zealots. Many of the responses were incoherent–few were surprisingly reasonable, although the majority of them were cacophonous and painful to read. Enjoy….here.

Gatlin  posted on  2015-06-08   16:00:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: TheFireBert (#147)

"By the way, it would be more helpful for you to actually add positive information to the discussion instead of just attacking what I post and spouting stuff like "educate yourself".

Usually I do. But when someone posts the crap like you did -- implying that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize -- I don't feel any obligation "to actually add positive information to the discussion".

"I do know what civil asset forfeiture (is) ..."

I don't think you do. Not when you believe that cops are detaining and searching random, innocent civilians in search of loot to seize.

"If I were stopped, and the LEO is overcome with a "suspicion", what would give them pause if they see the bank envelope on the passenger seat of the car and decide that it needs to be investigated?

Decide how? Toss a coin? Roll dice? What are you talking about?

First, if you were stopped, they need a reason for stopping you. Second, they need probable cause (or your consent) to search your vehicle.

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-08   16:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Gatlin (#150)

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

I can tell ya this, the most vile of the Ron Paul cult are hateful towards Rand... and that just makes me wanna vote for Rand even more. lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-08   18:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Gatlin (#150) (Edited)

...VILE PEOPLE...

I feel they did more to harm Ron Paul than they did to ever help him.

Losing your memory old timer?

Or just more revisionist history on your part?

Go back and look at those threads - it was the anti-Ron Paul faction led by you, byeltsin, Byteshredder (remember that foul-mouthed tool?) and of course yukon (you remember the gay porn lover, right?) who were fouling the forum with lies.

As if you got your talking points from neo-con central.

This thread makes my point succinctly.

Why are so many Ron Paul acolytes, vile, obnoxious, foul, libtard cowards?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2015-06-08   19:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: misterwhite (#152)

Assuming you gave consent and they found the $1500, what's the problem? The money is in large bills, you have a receipt from your bank for $1500, and you have a bill from your landlord for $1500.

On the other hand, if you're pulled over for weaving, you came out of a high-drug area, your car smells like the inside of a bong, there are empty baggies all over the car, and your $1500 consists of 5's, 10's and 20's, they just might seize that money ... and your car ... until you could explain where the money came from.

You are absolutely right, those are assumptions.

I gave you the details, from experience I know what can happen.

You try to assume that someone must look, act, or fit the cookie cutter diagram of a criminal before the law takes an interest in a citizen. From the numerous stories that are published, and with many peoples personal experiences, many of the CAF critics have solid reason to believe otherwise.

But by all mean, keep assuming (or at least making an ass- out of -u- and... you get the point).

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-06-08   19:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (156 - 215) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com