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Title: Alabama Senate Votes to End State Marriage Licenses
Source: FEE
URL Source: http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/det ... to-end-state-marriage-licenses
Published: Jun 2, 2015
Author: Jeffery Tucker
Post Date: 2015-06-02 12:08:07 by cranko
Keywords: None
Views: 11136
Comments: 69

Why are there marriage “licenses” – a permission slip granted or denied by the state – rather than just contracts like any other? Why does government stand in the position to veto the choices of two people who want to commit to each other?

These are questions that the Alabama Senate considered in May this year. The result was the passage of Senate Bill 377, supported by 22 senators and opposed by only 3. Under this legislation, licenses would no longer exist for marriage. Marriage would become a plain contract filed with the Probate offices.

In effect, this would restore the traditional role of law in marriage as it has existed in most times and places, before the racially motivated and eugenically inspired idea of “marriage licenses” came along in the early part of the 20th century.

Governments embraced them as part of a larger effort to stop race mixing and to reduce procreation among undesirables. They were later entrenched as a standard of proof for government benefits claimants.

The conception of marriage as a legal contract, in contrast, exists as the private decision of the parties involved, along with a legal representative (and/or clergy) and witnesses. Just as anyone can make a contract for goods and services, marriage would become purely a matter of individual choice, not government decree.

This step would go a long way toward ending the division and confusion over marriage that has taken over the state, pitting one group against another and leading to a tug-of-war between the federal government and a politically ambitious judge in the state who speaks for religious fundamentalists.

It would bring about a nearly complete ceasefire in this front of the trumped-up culture war. Surprisingly, the moved has been welcomed by most, if only as an answer to the legal confusions that have come about from conflicting court orders.

In January, a federal court ruled that Alabama must grant licenses to same- sex couples.

In response, the fundamentalist state Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore (of the 10 Commandments Monument fame) issued a directive telling probate justices to ignore the rule.

In March, the Supreme Court issued an edict stopping judges from issuing any licenses to same-sex couples. Moreover, following the Senate passage of this bill, a US District Court ordered the state to comply with federal mandates.

As a result, no one knows for sure what to do, and thousands of same-sex couples, driven out of the state in order to marry, are unclear whether their unions are recognized by the state.

How such a dramatic shift would affect the thousands of legal benefits and privileges afforded to those with licenses is unclear. Regardless, it will be worth the test because the current system is outdated, anachronistic, and deeply divisive. As long as government is the decision maker, the voting citizenry imagines itself to have a stake in the shape of decisions that should only involve those party to the exchange.

It would also end the dispute over finding a legal definition of marriage that applies to all. Keep in mind that this is not only about same-sex couples. Many religious traditions have strict rules concerning what is and is not a valid marriage. The Catholic Church, for example, will not codify a second marriage if the first one remains not annulled by Church courts. Their conceptions are not the same as the states’.

The search for a single definition for everyone, created and enforced by the state, is untenable, and threatens actual damage to the institution and to millions of people who, for whatever private reason, happen to disagree. The move from licenses to contracts would leave the terms and conditions entirely up to the couple. The civic order as such has no role whatsoever in intervening.

What is driving this change? Some people speculate that conservative Alabama politicians and judges anticipate being forced by courts to accept same-sex marriage and want nothing to do with it. By getting rid of licenses completely, they remove their own moral (or electoral) culpability for legally approving something they find offensive. Perhaps that's right, but ulterior motives aside, it seems like a step in the right direction.

To be sure, this is not a perfect solution. The best answer would leave marriage entirely up to private parties. In my own case, in 2014, I officiated at a wedding in which the couple filed their vows and promises on the Blockchain, a distributed ledger that provides an immutable record. Though it has no legal standing now, the couple was anticipating a time when marriage is completely taken out of the realm of public policy altogether.

Nonetheless, the end of the license and its replacement with a plain contract would take us a long way in the direction of the goal: a complete wall of separation between the state and marriage. Otherwise, the culture war will continue without end, and everyone will lose.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 46.

#1. To: All (#0)

State governments first started requiring marriage licenses during the Progressive Era to prevent whites from marrying people of other races.

So, government marriage licenses have been a corrupt enterprise from the very beginning.

It's time to end them.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-02   12:10:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: cranko (#1) (Edited)

State governments first started requiring marriage licenses during the Progressive Era to prevent whites from marrying people of other races.

So, government marriage licenses have been a corrupt enterprise from the very beginning.

It's time to end them.

That is very true and it was also done to do blood tests to prevent people from being married that would produce a bad result like sickle cell. That is why in movies from the 40s there is always this "blood test" that has to be performed before a license is granted. It is a left over from the eugenics movement.

I tried to explain this to social conservatives who wanted to prevent gay marriage and my recommendation (proposed by libertarians which I agreed with) was to get the govt out of granting marriage licenses and tax credits for marriage (not fair to single people anyway). The reason marriage is an equal rights issue is because married couples get benefits and non married couples don't.

But the social conservatives refused to hear this. They actively want the govt enforcing marriage codes and licenses as long as it meets their version of marriage. Sadly, that is not possible any longer.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-02   12:34:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pericles (#3)

Social "Conservatives" have been trying to win at the Progressive's game -- control big government for their own ends.

But they can't win at this game. So, we need to change the game.

The libertarians are right -- the only way to prevent Progressives from shoving their views down our throats is to take away the power of big government.

Unfortunately, some people aren't too bright.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-02   12:56:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: cranko (#4)

The libertarians are right -- the only way to prevent Progressives from shoving their views down our throats is to take away the power of big government.

Unfortunately, some people aren't too bright.

I think it is too late though to introduce privatized marriage as an alternative.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-02   13:14:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pericles (#5)

I think it is too late though to introduce privatized marriage as an alternative.

Do you think that the Supreme Court will force states that don't have marriage licenses to issue them???

Perhaps. We'll see.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-02   18:46:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: cranko (#10)

I think it is too late though to introduce privatized marriage as an alternative.

Do you think that the Supreme Court will force states that don't have marriage licenses to issue them???

Perhaps. We'll see.

Depends - is the Alabama proposal to only recognize religiously sanctioned marriages? If so what of Jews and Protestants who carry out gay marriages? What about secular justice of the peace kind of marriages?

Marriage is also tied into a host of tax breaks. Will those be done away with? If no one is getting a marriage benefit then gays can't claim discrimination but who will deny this benefit?

The benefits in marriage that the govt hands out in Social Security, etc is almost the entire basis for giving gays the same right since they claim they are denied the same benefits for living the exact same kind of life but just with the same sex partner.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-02   23:07:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Pericles, SOSO (#18)

Marriage is also tied into a host of tax breaks. Will those be done away with? If no one is getting a marriage benefit then gays can't claim discrimination but who will deny this benefit?

Many of these are illusory or are subsidies for state-desired consumer behavior like buying houses.

Yes, they should be abolished. After all, the more we have increased these subsidies to marriage, the more marriage has declined as a social institution so you can hardly argue that the benefits have done anything to stabilize and increase the numbers of married couples.

Once you admit that the benefits do not aid in larger numbers of people marrying and avoiding divorce, the benefits are just another Big Gov giveaway for loathsome pols to buy votes with and to get donations from outfits like Home Depot and other lobbyists in the housing sector.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-03   13:04:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TooConservative (#34)

Are you also for removing tax benefits for dependent children?

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-03   13:24:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: SOSO (#35)

Are you also for removing tax benefits for dependent children?

Provide a list of these various tax benefits for dependent children and I will tell you which ones I would remove.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-03   13:59:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TooConservative (#40)

Provide a list of these various tax benefits for dependent children and I will tell you which ones I would remove.

No. You made a blanket statement of philosophy about eliminating tax benefits for marrieds, you should be able to do the same for dependent children. Try to find an adult to help you if you can't do that.

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-03   15:14:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: SOSO (#42)

No. You made a blanket statement of philosophy about eliminating tax benefits for marrieds, you should be able to do the same for dependent children. Try to find an adult to help you if you can't do that.

I am observing that marriage, once a bedrock of America and Europe, is increasingly a failed institution and will become a minority over the next decade with most children born out of wedlock, up to 70%.

I am not going to issue a list of state or federal benefits for dependent children. There are too many to count. No doubt, I would eliminate some, leaving it to the states to determine whether they want to foot the bill for a particular tax/benefit.

I think the feds have way too much on their plate. They should concentrate on doing the things that only a federal government should do, not divide their attention on so many things that no government can do well. Congress is quite often the main problem when we see major problems with social welfare programs. They are the main obstacle to fixing anything and they are the only ones with the authority to curtail programs or return the programs to the states. Even the mild block granting programs that the last GOP congress instituted are not enough to address the problems created by one-size-fits-none federal programs. Most of these programs should be devolved to the states to continue them under sounder management or to phase them out. The big Department of Agriculture bills with their ridiculously corrupt food stamp and crop insurance elements are a fairly obvious example.

Government has largely failed in this country, paralyzed by its sheer size and extremely bad management which apparently can't get fired, no matter how corrupt and ineffective they are.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-03   16:07:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: TooConservative (#43)

Government has largely failed in this country, paralyzed by its sheer size and extremely bad management which apparently can't get fired, no matter how corrupt and ineffective they are.

Just as is the case with every developed and third wprld country on the planet. The Great Experiment has ended. It had a decent run that truly set the U.S. apart from any other significant society in recorded hostory but it has morphed into the same old same crap. I now firmly believe that this merely reflections the nature of the human condition where just about every noble intention or vision is defeated by greed, ego, jealousy, rationalized morality, etc.

"I am not going to issue a list of state or federal benefits for dependent children. There are too many to count. No doubt, I would eliminate some, leaving it to the states to determine whether they want to foot the bill for a particular tax/benefit."

You made the comment that tax benefits for marrieds have not had the intended outcome of promoting marriage in the society. I now make the observation that tax benefits for dependent children have not had the intended consequence of developing healhty, educated, productive, self-sufficient citizens.

So if you want to do away with marriage tax benefits how do you justify keeping tax benefits for dependent children?

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-03   16:31:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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