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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Vatican appointee says gay sex can express Christ’s ‘self-gift’
Source: Life Site News
URL Source: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/v ... 143221886185206838242298360572
Published: May 21, 2015
Author: Lisa Bourne
Post Date: 2015-05-21 11:37:06 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 13378
Comments: 86

ROME, May 19, 2015 (LifeSiteNews.com) -- Pope Francis has appointed radically liberal, pro-homosexual Dominican Father Timothy Radcliffe as a consultor for the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.

The Holy Father made the appointment on Saturday, according to Vatican Radio.

Father Radcliffe, an Englishman, author and speaker, was Master of the Dominican order from 1992 to 2001, and is an outspoken proponent of homosexuality.

"We must accompany [gay people] as they discern what this means, letting our images be stretched open,” he said in a 2006 religious education lecture in Los Angeles. “This means watching 'Brokeback Mountain,' reading gay novels, living with our gay friends and listening with them as they listen to the Lord."

In 2005, as the Vatican deliberated the admission of men with homosexual tendencies to study for the priesthood in the wake of the Church sex abuse scandal, Father Radcliffe said that homosexuality should not bar men from the priesthood, and rather, those who oppose it should be banned.

As a contributor to the 2013 Anglican Pilling Report on human sexual ethics Father Radcliffe said of homosexuality:

How does all of this bear on the question of gay sexuality? We cannot begin with the question of whether it is permitted or forbidden! We must ask what it means, and how far it is Eucharistic. Certainly it can be generous, vulnerable, tender, mutual and non-violent. So in many ways, I would think that it can be expressive of Christ’s self-gift. We can also see how it can be expressive of mutual fidelity, a covenantal relationship in which two people bind themselves to each other for ever.

Father Radcliffe often celebrated Mass for the U.K. dissident group Soho Masses Pastoral Council (now renamed the LGBT Catholics Westminster Pastoral Council).

The priest is also a supporter of the proposal of to allow communion for divorced and remarried Catholics.

He currently works as director of the Las Casas Institute of Blackfriars at Oxford University, a social justice center.

Social justice is the focus of the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace, established in 1967 by Pope Paul VI in response to the Vatican II proposal for establishment of a body of the universal Church that would “stimulate the Catholic Community to foster progress in needy regions and social justice on the international scene.”

The pope appoints roughly 40 members and consultors to the pontifical body, according to their background and experience, who serve for five years, giving input to the planning for the Council.

When the Council gathers for assemblies, it’s for discernment of the "signs of the times," Vatican.va states.

London, Ontario's Father Paul Nicholson suggested in his blog that observers can wonder how much Pope Francis knows about Father Radcliffe.

“The Holy Father is only a man, and is limited in how much he can know about any and every appointment,” Father Nicholson wrote. “His primary language is Spanish and perhaps he has not been sufficiently briefed. And that may be done intentionally by those around him.”

The Boston Globe’s Catholic website CRUX called the appointment “a move sure to raise eyebrows among the Church’s traditional guard,” and termed Father Radcliffe “a strong ally of Pope Francis,” before listing various controversies surrounding the Dominican over the years.

The selection of Father Radcliffe by the Holy Father drew criticism from many Catholics.

The Scottish blog Catholic Truth blog called it an “absolutely shocking papal appointment.”

“It’s very clear indeed now, that to be 'a priest in good standing' means to be opposed to all that is truly Catholic – and that includes true morals,” the post read, and called for prayers for the Holy Father.

“Interesting that these appointments are going out over the weekend so people can't comment as readily,” The Eponymous Flower blogged in a post titled, “Evil Dominican Tapped For Important Post.

“Good times for dissident Dominicans” was the headline of the Rorate Caeli post on the papal appointment, which called Father Radcliffe “Uber-liberal.”

“It is true that Radcliffe has ‘opposed’ ‘gay marriage,’” the post said, “but his farcical ‘opposition’ rests on grounds entirely contrary to those of the Church: Radcliffe opposes it because, in his words: ‘gay marriage’ ultimately, we believe, demeans gay people by forcing them to conform to the straight world."

“Radcliffe's acceptability has just received a major upgrade with this latest appointment,” Rorate Caeli stated. “A tremendous slap to the face of so many good Catholics who had opposed him out of fidelity to the faith.”


Poster Comment:

Also a related article on Vatican appointments/dismissals: Pro-Life Cardinal Burke dismissed Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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#1. To: redleghunter (#0)

These articles are click bait - in thatthey really don't apply to the Vatican and are not foreshadowing any policy shift.

Pericles  posted on  2015-05-21   12:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: redleghunter, Pericles (#0)

"How does all of this bear on the question of gay sexuality? We cannot begin with the question of whether it is permitted or forbidden! We must ask what it means, and how far it is Eucharistic. Certainly it can be generous, vulnerable, tender, mutual and non-violent. So in many ways, I would think that it can be expressive of Christ’s self-gift."

Ok there Father, well, the same thing can be said of divorce and remarriage, unmarried sex between boyfriend and girlfriend, polygamy and polyamory.

Men are certainly capable of loving two or more women at the same time, and raising all of their children as their own. Israel did it. Solomon did it. And David, and Abraham.

And of course since sex can be generous, vulnerable, tender, mutual and non- violent, birth control between consenting boyfriend and girlfriend makes eminent sense, right Father?

So tell me, Father, is simple MASTURBATION still a mortal sin?

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-21   13:04:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

I've tried to warn you guys about this pope. He's way too eager to be a world-pleaser.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-21   13:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pericles (#1)

These articles are click bait - in thatthey really don't apply to the Vatican

Vatican appointments don't apply to the Vatican?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-05-21   13:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: redleghunter (#0)

It must be Dominican Father Timothy Radcliffe who runs Amazon.com's complaint dept.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-21   13:49:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pericles, TooConservative (#1)

These articles are click bait - in thatthey really don't apply to the Vatican and are not foreshadowing any policy shift.

The Pope appointed this guy to the position of Peace and Justice advisor. The article came from a very Catholic friendly site LifeSiteNews.

Linked to this is a high level Vatican Carndinal Burke dismissed late last year due to his critical comments on the Vatican approach to Pro-Life issues.

If you don't see a trend here, dig deeper. Francis is cleaning house the wrong way. Benedict stood down so Francis could have an open door to purge the "purple mafia" from the Vatican. Instead, Francis is purging traditionalists and bringing in more pro-sodomite advisors.

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   14:49:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: sneakypete (#4)

These articles are click bait - in thatthey really don't apply to the Vatican Vatican appointments don't apply to the Vatican?

He is not speaking for the Vatican and the appointment is not related to what he is talking about.

Pericles  posted on  2015-05-21   14:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Still shaking my head on this appointment. This after Cardinal Burke dismissed for being vocal on Pro-Life matters.

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   14:52:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pericles, Sneakypete, TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#7)

He is not speaking for the Vatican and the appointment is not related to what he is talking about.

I think the point is the Vatican, more accurately the Pope should be defrocking this priest instead of recognizing him with a Vatican advisory position.

Sexual Immorality Defiles the Church

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   14:56:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter (#8)

Well, the Church burnt Joan of Arc alive...before they figured out she was a messenger of God.

Terrible decisions have been made and things done in the past, and will be so again.

Look at each of our own lives: pretty much a shipwreck if you add up all of the error and sin.

God endures, even though men are fickle.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-21   14:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: redleghunter (#6)

Instead, Francis is purging traditionalists and bringing in more pro-sodomite advisors.

It seems pretty obvious.

Finally a pope the most Lefty media types can love.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-21   15:14:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#10)

God endures, even though men are fickle.

I just wondering if the office of Pope, today, is so powerless to remove a sodomite, divorce, fornication promoting priest? It is either that or a blind eye is given here.

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   15:31:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#11)

Finally a pope the most Lefty media types can love.

Maybe he's trying to convert the ghey Romney Republicans to Catholicism?


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

hondo68  posted on  2015-05-21   15:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter, All (#3)

I've tried to warn you guys about this pope. He's way too eager to be a world-pleaser.

Hey, follow the Pope's lead when he said "who am I to judge?" What a Vicar of Christ, no? So if it's not for the Vicar of Christ to judge I guess it's not for Christ to judge either.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-05-21   15:51:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter (#12)

I just wondering if the office of Pope, today, is so powerless to remove a sodomite, divorce, fornication promoting priest? It is either that or a blind eye is given here.

Nope, he has the power.

If he uses it unwisely, it's on him.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-21   16:19:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles (#7)

These articles are click bait - in thatthey really don't apply to the Vatican Vatican appointments don't apply to the Vatican?

He is not speaking for the Vatican and the appointment is not related to what he is talking about.

I'm not a Catholic and don't even play one in the movies,but I was always under the impression that anything the Pope (you know,the commie in the big hat)says is automatically Vatican policy?

He IS the CMMFIC,right?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-05-21   16:33:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: redleghunter (#8)

This after Cardinal Burke dismissed for being vocal on Pro-Life matters.

Different issues. Homosexual are not all anti-life/pro-abortion. Some are,some aren't,and some don't give a damn either way. Just like everybody else.

The irony and hypocrisy of a anti-sex organization purposely appointing a sexual freak to such a high position is stunning,though.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-05-21   16:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: SOSO (#14) (Edited)

What a Vicar of Christ, no?

According to tradition, yes.

In reality, maybe yes, maybe no.

The Borgias were Popes too. Were they Vicars of Christ?

The Church doesn't survive its own evils unscathed. It, too, has failed, just as all men do, because it is made of men.

There's a tradition that says that the Church cannot sin. That tradition is obviously wrong. It can. It has. Maybe it is now, maybe it isn't. I guess if the Church really had POWER over us, I'd care more. But as it is, the real truth is that I have something IT wants from me: my money and my time. So, if it doesn't give me what I want, it doesn't get what it wants from me. Just like the Republican Party. My loyalty to ANY human being or organization is NEVER absolute. It's ALWAYS contingent: you please me and I'll please you. You do what you're supposed to do and I'll do my part. But if you don't do what I think you're supposed to do, then I'm not really going to go out of my way to do anything for you either. That's the way it is.

The Protestants have played the game the Pope and the liberal Catholics seem to be playing now. They made priestesses and bless gay marriages and support abortion and all that. And they emptied out. The liberals for the most part stopped coming - waste of time and money. The conservatives went and found evangelical Churches. Many Catholics buy their own propaganda that "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church". The error they make is in thinking that the government organization and political structure they call "The Church" is what Jesus meant by "Ecclesia". It isn't. The Catholic Church can dry up and blow away like any other human government. God is present among the faithful there, in supernatural power, for it's that assembly of the faithful that is the Ekklesia. If they leave the physical and political structures that are called "The Catholic Church", then the Gates of Hell have not prevailed against the Ekklesia - God is still with the Ekklesia. All that has happened is that a bunch of men in a political organization have overplayed their hand, lost their contributors, and destroyed their organization, which they CALL "The Church", but which is not REALLY "THE" Church, and which never, ever was. Catholics do not currently believe this. One need only see the empty and dead churches all over Europe to see that Satan - or just plain human indifference, can indeed prevail against the political governmental structure that CALLS ITSELF "THE" "Catholic Church". God's still there, in the Ekklesia, but the Ekklesia - those called out - is wherever two or more people loyal to God assemble to call upon Jesus and pray to the Father. THAT is THE CHURCH, and the gates of Hell will never prevail against THAT. The Roman Catholic Church can fail and fall into a ruin just as the Mainline Protestant Churches are, for the same reasons. If the inner political controllers walk away from the constituency, the constituency will stop giving money and stop attending, and the Catholic Church, like any other human organization, will cease to exist and disappear from the face of the earth. The Ekklesia will always be there. Whether the Catholic Church houses it or not depends on whether the people who are the Ekklesia choose to make church within the buildings of the Catholic "Church", and whether or not they choose to tolerate Catholic "priests" as their spiritual shepherds. If the priests become odious by molesting children, running away with money, and then preaching absurdities, the Ekklesia will leave and reassemble somewhere else, and the "Churches" will turn into museums. To traditional Catholics, what I have said is "apostasy". It is not. It's the Truth. The belief that the Catholic Church - the political structure that calls itself that, is the thing that is holy and cannot err - even when it visible DOES err, sometimes quite monstrously - well, THAT is idolatry. And it's an error. But there's no point in tearing open these wounds. The better answer is for Catholics and all other Christians to huddle together in Ekklesia, follow the (few, direct, clear) precepts of Christ, and rely on God directly and on each other. Any particular Pope may or may not be the Vicar of Christ - that depends on Christ. Men were never given the power to decide such things. Just following Christ and sticking with each other is hard enough. When the shepherds start acting like perverts and sticking up for perverts, it's time to stop calling those men shepherds.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-21   16:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#9)

I think the point is the Vatican, more accurately the Pope should be defrocking this priest instead of recognizing him with a Vatican advisory position.

That sure would have been MY first guess. They want to condemn to hell for eternity teenage boys and girls for doing what teenage boys and girls are driven to do by their natures,yet they appoint a homosexual to a high office in their cult? How the hell does that make any sense?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-05-21   16:38:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: hondo68 (#13)

Maybe he's trying to convert the ghey Romney Republicans to Catholicism?

It's been some time since you mentioned Romney:) Thought you could add this to your collection:

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   17:17:26 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#18)

You do what you're supposed to do and I'll do my part. But if you don't do what I think you're supposed to do, then I'm not really going to go out of my way to do anything for you either. That's the way it is.

Don't take this the wrong way....But the above sounds very Protestant:)

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   17:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#18)

The Ekklesia will always be there. Whether the Catholic Church houses it or not depends on whether the people who are the Ekklesia choose to make church within the buildings of the Catholic "Church", and whether or not they choose to tolerate Catholic "priests" as their spiritual shepherds. If the priests become odious by molesting children, running away with money, and then preaching absurdities, the Ekklesia will leave and reassemble somewhere else, and the "Churches" will turn into museums.

Excellent commentary. I agree.

This is exactly what is happening with PCUSA.

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-21   17:35:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: redleghunter (#20)

Ummm I think this is more his style...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-05-21   18:30:42 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#0)

http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2015/05/timothy-radcliffes-heresy-and- vulgarity.html

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-05-21   18:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: redleghunter (#0)

pro-homosexual Dominican Father Timothy Radcliffe

A 6 pack says he's one himself...

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-05-21   18:47:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#0)

The Catholic's prohibition of married Priests has filled the Priesthood with gays. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's just a fact.

The early church did not prohibit married Priests. The Orthodox still allows (and encourages) married Priests today.

No one can deny their human sexuality. But in the past gays had to hide their human sexuality. Some gays (like Rock Hudson) tried to live in fake marriages. Many others chose to do so in the Priesthood, where past generations never thought to look.

When I went to Catholic University in the 1980's, I remember a Priest in one of my classes arguing that "God calls people to be gay".

I am not Catholic, but I have a deep respect for Catholics. But they need to revert to the original Church and allow married Priests.

cranko  posted on  2015-05-21   19:41:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: cranko (#26)

There are, what is it? from memory, 21 Rites of the Catholic Church. 20 of them have married priests. One, the largest, the Western or Latin Rite "Roman" Catholic Church hasn't permitted it since the 1000s. All of the Eastern Rites do permit it.

The reforms required in organized Christianity are deep and profound.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-21   20:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

According to tradition, yes.

In reality, maybe yes, maybe no.

The Borgias were Popes too. Were they Vicars of Christ?

Pope = Vicar of Christ

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-05-21   21:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vicomte13 (#27)

Catholic Church hasn't permitted it since the 1000s

Right, the Catholic church prevented Priests from marrying during or just after the Great Schism when the eastern and western churches split. (500 years before the Protestant Reformation)

The Orthodox derogatorily call the changes in the western / Catholic Church "innovations".

The original Church allowed and encouraged married Priests and the Orthodox Church still allows and encourages it today. But the Catholics had an "innovation" that prevented it. This opened the door for both gays and more importantly Pedophiles to creep into the Priesthood.

cranko  posted on  2015-05-21   21:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: redleghunter (#0)

Are you going to follow the Word of God as interpreted?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-21   21:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Vicomte13 (#27) (Edited)

All of the Eastern Rites do permit it.

"Eastern Rights" churches are Oriental Orthodox churches who were kicked out of Christianity during the 4th century.

At some point, they decided to recognize the Pope so they were let back in on condition of being allowed to continue their 1,500+ year old traditions.

The overwhelming majority of Catholics are NOT "eastern rights" and their Priests cannot marry.

cranko  posted on  2015-05-21   21:50:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: redleghunter (#0)

The Catholic faithful will support any blasphemy the RCC promulgates.

Don  posted on  2015-05-21   22:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: cranko, redleghunter (#26)

The Catholic's prohibition of married Priests has filled the Priesthood with gays.

There is much hypocrisy here as the RCC is well aware and tolerant of married priests in S. America and Africa. Just some more BS from the RCC. Each day it's harder and harder for me to call myself a RCC. I am not leaving the church, it is leaving me.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-05-21   22:38:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Don (#32)

The Catholic faithful will support any blasphemy the RCC promulgates.

donnie,donnie donnie .... don't you see how many Word(s) of God there really are?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-21   22:44:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: buckeroo (#34)

Bucky, Bucky, Bucky, how many words are in the Holy Scriptures?

Don  posted on  2015-05-21   23:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Don (#35)

buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-21   23:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, TooConservative (#22)

Off topic but I didn't want to start another thread on this.

Matthew 19:28

"28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Twelve? That would include Judas, no?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-05-22   0:10:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: ALL (#36)

Why am I not surprised?

And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-22   0:12:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: SOSO (#37)

No. Judas was replaced by another.

Don  posted on  2015-05-22   0:40:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: GarySpFC (#38)

I don't think we are to take Bucky seriously. I don't, anyway.

Don  posted on  2015-05-22   0:48:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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