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Title: 9 Dead From Motorcycle Gang Shootout in Waco, Texas
Source:
nytimes.com
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/u ... ng-shootout-in-waco-texas.html
Published: May 17, 2015
Author: LIAM STACK
Post Date: 2015-05-17 20:19:02 by Pericles
Keywords: None
Views: 12243
Comments: 46
9 Dead From Motorcycle Gang Shootout in Waco, Texas By LIAM STACKMAY 17, 2015 A shootout between rival motorcycle gangs at a restaurant in Waco, Tex., left nine people dead and plunged the surrounding neighborhood into chaos on Sunday afternoon, while dozens of police officers tried to head off further violence. A fight broke out between “criminal biker gangs” at around 12:15 pm inside a Twins Peaks restaurant in a shopping center and quickly spilled into the parking lot, a spokesman for the Waco Police Department said. Sgt. Patrick Swanton, the spokesman, said the confrontation had started as a parking dispute and quickly escalated from a fistfight to a melee involving chains, knives, clubs and, ultimately, gunfire. Sergeant Swanton said that the authorities had been aware of the potential for violence at the restaurant on Sunday and that at least 12 Waco police officers had been stationed outside, as well as several officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety and SWAT officers. The bikers opened fire when the police moved in to break up the fight, Sergeant Swanton said, and the officers returned fire. He said eight bikers had been killed on the scene and that one more had been declared dead at a local hospital. Numerous other people were injured, he said, but no police officers were hurt.
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#6. To: Pericles (#4)
I may have to peek.
The TOS thread was pretty boring. You hyped it.
You did read freepers claim there bikers are the salt of the earth, Mexican, Muslims, European socialists, etc?
I know that the typical cop shooting rarely results in the bad guy being hit. What do YOU know,shithead?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
What do YOU know,shithead? If they are all in a parking lot then it's shooting fish in a barrel. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/18/us-usa-texas-shooting- idUSKBN0O20VC20150518 The fight, which involved members of at least three gangs, erupted shortly after noon and quickly escalated into a brawl involving clubs, knives and chains, Swanton said. The fight may have been tied to a dispute over a parking spot, Swanton said. When the bikers began shooting, officers moved in, some of them also firing their weapons. When the shooting ended, bodies were scattered across two parking lots.
I scanned ~250 comments, was not entertained. You overbilled the fun.
Not ALL. Just the ones who were trying to kill them. That's OK with you, isn't it?
That's OK with you, isn't it? I have zero idea if the gangs fired on the cops. Neither do you. I was commenting on the vague writting.
I do. Because I read the article. "The bikers opened fire when the police moved in to break up the fight, Sergeant Swanton said, and the officers returned fire."
Again, I have no idea if that is true or not. We shall see form the autopsy if any gang members were killed by other gang members.
From your own link: When the bikers began shooting, officers moved in, some of them also firing their weapons. When the shooting ended, bodies were scattered across two parking lots. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/18/us-usa-texas-shooting- idUSKBN0O20VC20150518
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)
Hmmmm. Do you think the shootout happened?
Will the autopsy report tell us if the gang members fired on the cops?
In most malls and most restaurants, there should be DVR video footage from a number of angles inside and outside. Maybe we can just wait a day to see what comes out. Was this the same area in Texas where a similar restaurant made some headlines by recently banning anyone with a facial tattoo? We had a thread here on it. I thought then that it was likely to be applied to these 1%er bike gang types, career criminals. Or the hard Latino gang types.
Video tapes may show it.
At the end of the day, that is alot of dead bikers - I have never heard of such a one battle death toll.
Sounds like the death toll is not complete. I saw the local PD presser this morning live. They are filing a number of capital murder charges. So expect some biker scum to be executed in a few years. And a number of others receiving very long prison sentences, in Texas or in federal prisons.
Really? You are basing this on your vast experience in shooting and being involved in gun fights? This may come as a surprise to you,but people tend to move around a lot when you are shooting at them. The ones who also have guns tend to shoot back. The fact that all 9 DOA's were scooter trash and not a single innocent bystander was hit tells me the people doing the shooting knew what they were doing.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And to a badge polisher like you ,that means it was the cops that shot all the DOA's. Police are usually horrible shots.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Natural selection at work. I have never heard of such a one battle death toll. Me,either. There was a gun battle between the Outlaws and I THINK the Bandito's in a casino in Vegas or Reno a couple of years ago,and I think only 3 or 4 were killed then.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Overseas they had some large death tolls between the foreign chapters of these bike clubs from battles that approach this. What I found interesting is some of these bikers wanted to use knives on each other - old school style. Some brought guns - I assume those that brought guns (if that is the case) were the ones planning on violating the meeting truce and the ones using knives fought back with what was available.
They may have gotten close to that number on Justified.
Some cops are expert with their handguns. I do recall Massad Ayoob, a famous police armorer, writing some years back that he thought a majority of cops in America didn't shoot more than 50 rounds in a year. And that despite generous allowance of free ammo from their PD. He didn't think much of their gun skills or PDs that failed to emphasize the importance of target practice and realistic combat training on a good range.
That's not very accurate. I'll say over 90% of all certified officers qualify at least once a year, and shoot at least 100 rounds to qualify. THEN I doubt they fire even ONE round a year after that. I made my officers qualify once a year (my preference was twice a year but budgets wouldn't allow) and in an 8 hour day, each officer would fire an average of 500 rounds of pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds. The city department inside my county jurisdiction, qualified their officers twice a year and one night fire qualification.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Not too bad. I know of one sheriff department that allocated 3,000 rounds per year. I knew of one that had no limits at all, not sure if that is still true. The commissioners wanted to know the sheriff and his deputy could shoot straight if they had to (which never happened in real life).
I remember when I was in the military (eons ago), all officer were required to qualify for firearms. It was with a 38. Overall, I did exceptional and got a badge for it. I somehow did great while at a stationary position (standing or kneeling). However, there was a portion where you had to quickly shoot without the ability to carefully aim. I don't think i hit the target at all. I have this in mind when I see officers in shootouts.
Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
Under stress, REAL STRESS like getting shot at or thinking you are going to die, people lose their ability to use fine motor skills. Aiming accurately is a fine motor skill. During a firefight, most people will resort to instinctive shooting. Looking over the top of the gun, pointing the gun towards the target and squeezing the trigger until the threat stops moving.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Not everybody. There are people who "live" in that "zone" and perform better than at any other time. And IMHO,point shooting is the way to go. You need focus on the whole scene.not just a front sight and blurry background. I do admit to being biased on this issue,though. Bullseye shooting bores me to death.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I tried to instill point shoulder shooting in my people for all shooting past 10 yards... and instinctive shooting 10 yards on in. I've never met a person yet that shoots better under duress. I've even had Pro class IPSC shooters lose accuracy on my firing line while I'm behind them treating them like an asshole.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
What more evidence does anyone need to know supporting GI's membership in the Kanary Klan?
Impressive. At what distances for pistol, rifle, & shotgun?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
They shot duty pistol from 1 yard to 25 yards. 1 yards shove and shoot 1 yard wrist on hip 3 yard elbow on hip 3 yard draw from holster off their back (simulate being pushed down) 7 yard body armor drills 10 yard challenge drills 15 yard point shoulder shooting 25 yard kneeling, standing and weak hand shooting. Patrol rifle was shot from 10 yards to 100 yards Patrol shotgun was a walking, advancing course from 25 to 75 yards with slugs. They had to engage, shoot and tactically reload and shoot while walking, running and utilizing cover. That was just for the actual quals. For non qual courses, I made my people dynamically shoot. Meaning shoot while moving and shoot at moving targets. I would end the day with a competitive shoot off... from quickest shot from a holster on a steel plate using a timer... to shooting the "Texas star" or bowling pins. Top shooter got a box of ammo that the range instructors bought.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Again, I am impressed! Good course. Sounds like you trained well.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Again, I am impressed! Good course. Sounds like you trained well. I tried to make it fun (when I wasn't screaming at them to stimulate stress, during quals). Most cops don't practice at all after yearly quals. It's saddening. I use to shoot the dog snot out of my duty weapon every chance I had... when I wasn't shooting trap, sporting clays or hunting.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
That's pretty rigorous training. That emphasis on close-in shooting and tactics and shooting postures is especially good. So often, we don't like to think about what happens when your opponent is trying to kill you at short range. Also the shotgun course. It all kinda sounds like fun except for that guy being an asshole to people trying to shoot. : )
I did so because most LE related shootings are generally less than 3 yards. I did limited dynamic shooting because of time constraints. When you run a firearms line and your designed course of fire has the shooter moving and shooting at moving targets, for safety you gotta run one shooter at a time. It's the most fun and way better than static line shooting... but not practical to utilize entirely while trying to keep the guys and gals qualified. I like to think my people at least miss me during firearms training. Who knows, they might not miss me at all. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Waco Texas Biker Brawl and Shooting is a Hoax – Totally Ridiculous
And heeeeeeeere we go again!
I did so because most LE related shootings are generally less than 3 yards. Based on the examples I showed - NYC cops are skipping training.
And heeeeeeeere we go again! What the f*&()&_+?
I am enjoying the Freeper comments on this - they are confused because they seem to love cops and white bikers. And since the names of the gangs are the Scimitars, Banditos and Cossacks there were a few stupid Freepers who seem to think this was a Muslim, European socialist and Mexican fight. It's a hoot.
#7. To: Pericles (#4)
#8. To: TooConservative (#7)
#9. To: Pericles (#4)
Do you know or are you shooting shit out of your mouth.
#10. To: sneakypete (#9)
(Edited)
I know that the typical cop shooting rarely results in the bad guy being hit.
#11. To: Pericles (#8)
You did read freepers claim there bikers are the salt of the earth, Mexican, Muslims, European socialists, etc?
#12. To: Pericles (#0)
The bikers opened fire when the police moved in to break up the fight, Sergeant Swanton said, and the officers returned fire. He said eight bikers had been killed on the scene and that one more had been declared dead at a local hospital. Numerous other people were injured, he said, but no police officers were hurt.
#13. To: Pericles (#1)
"Looks like the cops killed them all?"
#14. To: misterwhite (#13)
"Looks like the cops killed them all?" Not ALL. Just the ones who were trying to kill them.
#15. To: Pericles (#14)
"I have zero idea if the gangs fired on the cops. Neither do you."
#16. To: misterwhite (#15)
"The bikers opened fire when the police moved in to break up the fight, Sergeant Swanton said, and the officers returned fire."
#17. To: Pericles, misterwhite (#14)
I have zero idea if the gangs fired on the cops. Neither do you. I was commenting on the vague writting.
#18. To: Pericles (#16)
"Again, I have no idea if that is true or not."
#19. To: Pericles (#16)
(Edited)
"I have zero idea if the gangs fired on the cops."
"We shall see form the autopsy if any gang members were killed by other gang members."
#20. To: Pericles, misterwhite (#14)
I have zero idea if the gangs fired on the cops. Neither do you. I was commenting on the vague writting.
#21. To: misterwhite (#19)
Will the autopsy report tell us if the gang members fired on the cops?
#22. To: TooConservative, misterwhite (#20)
#23. To: Pericles (#22)
At the end of the day, that is alot of dead bikers - I have never heard of such a one battle death toll.
#24. To: Pericles (#10)
If they are all in a parking lot then it's shooting fish in a barrel.
#25. To: misterwhite (#15)
and the officers returned fire."
#26. To: Pericles (#22)
At the end of the day, that is alot of dead bikers -
#27. To: sneakypete (#26)
There was a gun battle between the Outlaws and I THINK the Bandito's in a casino in Vegas or Reno a couple of years ago,and I think only 3 or 4 were killed then
#28. To: Pericles (#22)
"I have never heard of such a one battle death toll."
#29. To: sneakypete (#25)
Police are usually horrible shots.
#30. To: TooConservative (#29)
majority of cops in America didn't shoot more than 50 rounds in a year
#31. To: GrandIsland (#30)
I made my officers qualify once a year (my preference was twice a year but budgets wouldn't allow) and in an 8 hour day, each officer would fire an average of 500 rounds of pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds. The city department inside my county jurisdiction, qualified their officers twice a year and one night fire qualification.
#32. To: GrandIsland (#30)
#33. To: no gnu taxes (#32)
I have this in mind when I see officers in shootouts.
#34. To: GrandIsland (#33)
Under stress, REAL STRESS like getting shot at or thinking you are going to die, people lose their ability to use fine motor skills.
#35. To: sneakypete (#34)
(Edited)
And IMHO,point shooting is the way to go. You need focus on the whole scene.not just a front sight and blurry background.
#36. To: ALL (#35)
GrandIsland: I've even had Pro class IPSC shooters lose accuracy on my firing line while I'm behind them treating them like an asshole.
#37. To: GrandIsland (#30)
" I made my officers qualify once a year (my preference was twice a year but budgets wouldn't allow) and in an 8 hour day, each officer would fire an average of 500 rounds of pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds.
#38. To: Stoner (#37)
At what distances for pistol, rifle, & shotgun?
#39. To: GrandIsland (#38)
#40. To: Stoner (#39)
#41. To: GrandIsland (#38)
#42. To: TooConservative (#41)
(Edited)
That's pretty rigorous training. That emphasis on close-in shooting
#43. To: Pericles (#0)
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#44. To: Pericles, Deckard (#43)
Waco Texas Biker Brawl and Shooting is a Hoax – Totally Ridiculous
#45. To: GrandIsland, TooConservative (#42)
That's pretty rigorous training. That emphasis on close-in shooting
#46. To: TooConservative, Deckard (#44)
Waco Texas Biker Brawl and Shooting is a Hoax – Totally Ridiculous
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