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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 69445 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 245. #22. To: BobCeleste (#0) The Roman Catholic Church tried very hard to keep the understanding of the Scriptures from the people. They fought to keep the Holy Bible in Latin which the common, uneducated folks couldn't read. The Reformers brought the Holy Scriptures to people in translations that the common people could read. Of course, the RCC leaders were happy to tell the commoners what the Scriptures really meant. The corruption in the priestly caste was rampant then as now. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   20:29:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Don (#22) And you point is? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   20:57:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: BobCeleste (#24) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:37:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Don (#29) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Which ONE is right? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   21:46:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: buckeroo (#30) To many people it really doesn't matter. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:55:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Don (#31) To [sic] many people it really doesn't matter. To me the question matters as I posed the question to you. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. It must be an awesome event to be able to evade the question about which Bible is the correct version as you receive some sort of mystical guidance from sources high above the clouds, correct? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:07:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: buckeroo, Don, GarySpFc, SOSO (#34) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. The KJV, NKJV, NASB, and YLT (some others) are literal word for word translations from the NT Greek manuscripts. Some versions are passage by passage literal equivalent translations. Some are paraphrased versions. If someone is looking for accuracy in translating from one language to the other, then the literal word for word translations are best. If someone is just starting to read the Bible for understanding then the literal equivalent is good. Yet none of the above matters unless you will blow the dust off the Bible and actually read it and study it and pray. redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   23:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: redleghunter (#36) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. Good reply. Which one carries the authoritative, "word of God?" buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:25:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: buckeroo (#37) Bucky, I don't believe your question indicates you really want an answer. You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Why should anyone spend time feeding your hostility toward the Scriptures? Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:31:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: Don (#40) You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Which one? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:33:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: buckeroo, Don (#41) You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Which one? I would like a straight forward answer to his question. Do you have one? SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   0:09:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: SOSO (#50) I have my preferences. I'm waiting to see what you and Bucky have for your favorites, or do either of you have any? Don  posted on  2015-05-15   0:14:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: Don (#51) I'm waiting to see what you and Bucky have for your favorites, or do either of you have any? Why? Don't you have your opinion firmed up yet? But since you appear to be weak kneed of sorts I will accomodate you. I have only been schooled on one version and that is sufficient for me. The other versions appear to be interesting but almost irrelevant to my faith. Question for you though (which you probably won't answer): had I been schooled on a different version of the Scriptures would my belief in and understanding of God and what He expects from me be different? For example, suppose I didn't believe in transubstanitation to name just one difference in the teachings of the various Christian religious sects? SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   11:12:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: SOSO, Don, BobCeleste, Vicomte13, Pericles, redleghunter, A Pole (#67) Question for you though (which you probably won't answer): had I been schooled on a different version of the Scriptures would my belief in and understanding of God and what He expects from me be different? For example, suppose I didn't believe in transubstanitation to name just one difference in the teachings of the various Christian religious sects? People rarely have any problems with Christianity over the various flavors of doctrine. What people usually do is use that as an excuse to ignore or flout entirely the moral code of scripture. Then they blame scripture for refusing to obey the fundamental and universal tenets found in all scripture. On the essentials, no credible version of scripture fails to outline fundamental Christian morals and duties. It isn't the fault of any church or bible version if people decide to use that as an excuse for ignoring or disobeying every fundamental tenet of scripture found repeatedly in every version. I flagged a few others because this is actually a rather common argument that we have repeatedly in various flavors. If you disagree, name the versions of scripture that allow theft, murder or other moral offenses. Naturally, they are all in agreement on fundamental moral issues. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-15   14:33:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: TooConservative, Don, BobCeleste, Vicomte13, Pericles, redleghunter, A Pole (#73) On the essentials, no credible version of scripture fails to outline fundamental Christian morals and duties. This is substantially true. It falls apart at the fringes. "It isn't the fault of any church or bible version if people decide to use that as an excuse for ignoring or disobeying every fundamental tenet of scripture found repeatedly in every version." Much less true as there are self-proclaimed Christian churches that truly bastradize the essence of Christianity. For example, those Christain churches that preach and teach anti-Catholicism (and they know who they are, don't they Don?) In just about all cases of the outliers it is their insistence that theirs is the one and only true version and interpretation of God's Words that puts them on the fringe. Unfortunately they are stronger in number than one would think is justified. SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   14:48:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: SOSO, TooConservative, Don, BobCeleste, Vicomte13, Pericles, redleghunter, A Pole (#74) In the length of time it has taken to discuss this thread, without anyone actually discussing Mal 3:9 and the missing word, anyone could have done a little work online and found the Hebrew and again online found the definitions. Not many years ago I got a call from a man I went to boot camp with back in June of 62. He runs a huge porn site, he told me "No one cares about what God said, people care about @(%)". Seems he may be right. All this discussion about what I said and not one comment or any discussion on Mal 3:9. How sad. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   15:25:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: BobCeleste (#76) All this discussion about what I said and not one comment or any discussion on Mal 3:9. You probably thought I was being facetious when I said that the only time you hear about Malachi is when the preacher or church board is after donations, especially tithes. I was entirely serious. No one ever seems to mention Malachi otherwise, particularly preach an entire sermon on it. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-15   15:43:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #93. To: TooConservative (#77) (Edited) No one ever seems to mention Malachi otherwise, particularly preach an entire sermon on it. Except me. I am particularly fond of Malachi, for two reasons. First, it wasn't proclaimed by a man. "Melek" is a messenger - an angel. This is God's angel speaking to the Jews, not some guy hiding his identity. Probably. That's important, because it makes the whole book highly authoritative - not just words "inspired by God", but words that proceed forth out of the mouth of God (via an angel). The second reason I like it is because it is HERE, from God's own mouth via his angel, that God proclaims the same doctrine against divorce that Jesus later preaches. The angel (melek) tells the Jews: "God hates divorce." Jesus later tells us all that divorce was a law that Moses wrote, but that it wasn't God's intent from the beginning. And Jesus says that remarriage after divorce is adultery. A fundamental difference between the Catholic Church and all other Christian denominations is that the other denominations all allow for divorce and remarriage, because of the hardness of hearts. But the Catholic Church forbids it absolutely. And THAT is, in fact, the law that came out of Jesus' mouth, corroborated by the words from God through the Angel. It is important that God's HATRED for divorce - HATRED - is expressed in the OLD Testament. So, Jesus is NOT changing the law to take away something that God gave through Moses. As Jesus said, Moses wrote the tradition, and divorce was a TRADITION. But God HATES it, and hated it under the law of Moses too. That's very, very important. For we are told by modern Christians of a political bent that God hates sodomy - that it is an abomination. That's true, on the text. But DIVORCE is ALSO hated by God - HATED. Jesus said that remarriage after divorce is ADULTERY. And in the short list given by Jesus twice on the last page of Scripture of what will get a man thrown into the Lake of Fire at final judgment, THEFT never appears - thieves don't necessarily go to Hell - but the sexually immoral and adulterers both do. I have noted that the Christians of our day like to harp on faggotry, which is legitimate. They harp somewhat less on fornication, perhaps because they don't want to alienate the "low church". But on divorce - something God hates - and remarriage - which Jesus calls adultery, and promises adulterers are hurled into the fire...well, there the Christians find compassion. Why? Because most people are heterosexual and married, and marriage is frequently a bitch, and having an escape hatch has been a desire of man since Moses. But God HATES divorce. HATES it. And tells men not to do it. In both testaments - an angel tells the Jews, and Jesus tells the world. I myself, personally, agree with Jesus. I think that divorce is an utter calamity for children, in particular. And I think that the temporal happiness of parents should be sacrificed for the happiness of children, and unhappy people should stay married, AND control their emotions and not commit other sins by lashing out - in short, they should fall back in love with the love of their youth, and that God gives them no out. There is no out: you must stay married. Marriage means that you will never have sex with anybody else against for the rest of one of your lives - the first to die - and it's indissoluble. And IF you dissolve it anyway: God HATES that. And if you remarry, you are an adulterer and you will be thrown into the flames of Hell and not enter the City of God. Jesus said that TWICE on the last page of the Scripture - TWICE. Adulterers are thrown into the fire. Divorce and remarriage is adultery. God hates divorce, and God throws adulterers into Hell. And all of those words came out of the mouth of God, straight and clear, and are not open to interpretation. And any Christian who says otherwise is deleting Scripture to pave the way to sin. He is lying and liars are ALSO on the short stern list of people who will be thrown into Hell at judgment. There is no escape: God hates divorce. Remarriage after divorce is adultery. Adulterers are thrown into Hell. And to say otherwise is to lie about God's word and liars are also all thrown into Hell. Therefore, Christians must take the position that divorce is prohibited, and remarriage after divorce is always barred. To do otherwise, and to preach anything else, is to lie and to lead men and women, and one's self, to hell. Thus speaks Malachi and Jesus. This is the law of God. It can never be changed. And whoever disagrees with it should shut up and change his mind, on pain of death, damnation and Hell. God has spoken finally, and repeatedly. Whoever thinks otherwise defies God. It is not an open question. The doctrine of divorce and remarriage is Satanic. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-15   18:00:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #98. To: Vicomte13, rtedleghunter, TooConservative, Don, GarySpFc, Bob Celeste (#93) A fundamental difference between the Catholic Church and all other Christian denominations is that the other denominations all allow for divorce and remarriage, because of the hardness of hearts. But the Catholic Church forbids it absolutely. And THAT is, in fact, the law that came out of Jesus' mouth, corroborated by the words from God through the Angel. Divorce? Catholic don't need no stinkin' divorce. At least rich Catholics don't, they can get an annulment, maybe more than one. Just ask Ted Kennedy (or his Dad). Ted got one after 24 years of marriage and three kids. Hey, it's good to be King. SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   18:39:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #240. To: SOSO (#98) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Don  posted on  2015-05-21   22:24:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #244. To: Don, ALL (#240) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Jesus gives no more approval for divorce than did Moses. The Old Testament ideal has not been changed. The permissions for divorce in the Old Testament economy were designed to meet the unique, practical problems of an imperfect, sinful people. God never condoned divorce, because what He joins together is not to be separated by man (Matt. 19:6). Adultery, another reality that God never intended, is the only thing that can break the bond of marriage. In fact, under the Old Testament law, adultery would necessarily dissolve a marriage, because the guilty party was put to death (Lev. 20:10). Because Jesus specifically mentions divorce being permissible on the ground of adultery (Matt. 5:32; 19:9), and because He also specifically says that He did not come to contradict or annul the least part of the law (5:18–19), it seems evident that sometime during Israel’s history divorce was allowed to take the place of execution as legitimate penalty for adultery. No Old Testament passage specifically authorizes divorce, but that does not mean God did not give specific revelation about it. Based on His own recognition and regulation of divorce, and His divorce of Israel and Judah (Jer. 3:8), we can assume that divine instructions for divorce had been given orally or by written revelation not preserved in Scripture. God divorced Israel and Judah for spiritual adultery rather than put them to death. Also Joseph, a righteous man, was prepared to divorce Mary rather than stone her for her presumed adultery (Matt. 1:19). Why did God allow divorce to replace the death penalty? The answer may be that Israel had so completely immersed herself in immorality that there was not sufficient desire for righteousness left in the people to carry out executions for that offense. Ultimately, God in His mercy chose Himself not to enforce the death penalty. That is consistent with the divine nature revealed in Jesus, who challenged the Pharisees who were about to stone a woman for adultery and then forgave her Himself (John 8:7). Apart from the death penalty, divorce became the divine alternative, tolerated only because of the hardness of the human heart, as Jesus states in Matthew 19:8. Divorce was never commanded, even for adultery. Otherwise God would have given His notice of divorce to Israel and Judah long before He did. A legitimate bill of divorce was allowable for adultery, but it was never commanded or required. It was a last resort-to be used only when unrepentant immorality had exhausted the patience of the innocent spouse, and the guilty one would not be restored. If God permitted divorce rather than death as a merciful concession to man’s sinfulness, why would He not also permit remarriage, since remarriage would be perfectly allowable under the original law of death for the adulterer? After all, the purpose of divorce was to show mercy to the guilty party, not to sentence the innocent party to a life of loneliness and misery. GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-22   0:25:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #245. To: GarySpFC (#244) (Edited) So, the answer is yes for both questions. SOSO, did you catch this? Don  posted on  2015-05-22   0:43:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 245. #247. To: Don (#245) So, the answer is yes for both questions. SOSO, did you catch this? So what's your point? Matthew 19 has always said what it says. Did you not understand what that was? BTW, Matthwew 19 also says: "28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." To which twelve people was He referring? SOSO  posted on  2015-05-22 10:24:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 245. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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