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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 69462 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-121) not displayed.       .       .       . #122. To: buckeroo (#116) So why does God cloak himself in secrecy? Why doesn't he/she just break out of the secrecy realm and revel the truths to each and every one of us? it's called blindness, and it's your choice. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-16   20:11:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #123. To: GarySpFC (#120) And that confidence comes from a relationship, from knowing, the 'object', aka individual, unique being, etc. Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-05-16   21:38:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #124. To: A Pole (#119) I gave a difficult situation. What about an atheist who was married then divorced and years later converts to the Orthodox church? Is that person allowed to remarry another Orthodox? "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-16   21:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #125. To: redleghunter (#124) What about an atheist who was married then divorced and years later converts to the Orthodox church? Is that person allowed to remarry another Orthodox? Yes, of course. A Pole  posted on  2015-05-17   2:06:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #126. To: BobCeleste (#60) but as for me I will continue to study what God said, not what others say He said. I am not smart enough to know what God meant, so I have to go with what He actually said. My mistake is thinking that others care as much as I do. Seems to me, that the Bible is exactly that.... A series of writings by people claiming God said certain things. You certainly are one of great faith, but it appears your faith isn't so much in God, but in the Bible itself. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   2:29:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #127. To: Pinguinite (#126) You certainly are one of great faith, but it appears your faith isn't so much in God, but in the Bible itself. The bible, my friend, is the word of God. It is the book, letter, He gave to us to get to know, understand and be better able to obey Him. I am convinced that in the Bible, we find exactly what God said, exactly how He said it and that He means every word in it. I am also convinced that if we, after much study, still do not understand all of what He has caused to be written, it does not mean that God doesn't know how to speak or how to write, it means that we (I) are not as smart as God. As His slave I am commanded to obey, not second guess, I am commanded to study what He said, not look to others to tell me what He meant to say. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-17   7:15:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #128. To: Biff Tannen (#123) And that confidence comes from a relationship, from knowing, the 'object', aka individual, unique being, etc. The big question remains as to how one knows the object of his faith. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-17   7:43:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #129. To: GarySpFC (#122) (Edited) buckeroo: So why does God cloak himself in secrecy? Why doesn't he/she just break out of the secrecy realm and revel the truths to each and every one of us? GarySpFC: it's called blindness, and it's your choice. Are you saying "God" is blind and its all my fault? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-17   11:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #130. To: redleghunter (#117) Sending His only begotten Son to save sinners through death by crucifixion and raising Him from the dead three days later is not enough for you? This is not revelation enough for you? I guess you could say, I am not a believer. buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-17   11:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #131. To: redleghunter (#118) If in fact you read the Bible you would know Jesus is the Lamb of God. He satisfied every tithe, peace offering and sin offering. He is the real deal. You should tell Jesus that his people in Israel are killing Palestinians and taking their land. They just stole about 800 olive trees from Palestine by chopping them down and moving on to the land of Palestine farmers. While you are in discussion with Jesus ... let him know that he isn't doing much good by permitting the world to rot all around not only the unbelievers but also fine folks like you, the believers. I would like a full report of the discussion. buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-17   11:12:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #132. To: BobCeleste (#127) The bible, my friend, is the word of God. It is the book, letter, He gave to us to get to know, understand and be better able to obey Him. Personally, I see little supporting evidence for this claim. A theology where people are condemned for eternity for decisions they make in a single life is simply not necessary, and falls short of what makes God truely loving and majestic. Characteristics ascribed to God like anger and jealousy are more likely the result of projecting of human traits on God rather than being an accurate description of an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God. The Newton model gives us that. We have an infinitely patient God with zero condemnation and zero anger, complete free will and complete accountability. We have a very real and simple reason to understand our spiritual uniqueness above that of animals (our humanity is not our primary identity, contrary to what most major faiths including christianity simply assume). It's almost universally true that no parent would condemn a child for what doctrine they hold to, and yet we're to believe God would condemn the vast majority of his children over what theology they believe? Where is the logic in this? If God is all powerful and all wise, then why wouldn't he have created a different model from the beginning? Well, I believe he did. In comparing theological elements, the Newton model is objectively superior to the Christian model, and the theological models of every major religion. Not that such results are necessarily indicative of truth, but insofar as we are talking about an omnipotent, infinitely wise, and all loving God, it should most certainly be a consideration. The Bible is, in my view, a collection of ancient writings, selected for their consistency in projecting a certain belief system. Yes many people over time have held the Bible to be spiritually special, but the same is also true for the Koran. Much of what is written is good, but the assumption that it is "The Word of God" is just that -- an assumption -- allowing a faith holder an easy and convenient device to consider a source of truth. Still, just because we need and want such a thing does not mean the Bible is it. My 2c. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   12:24:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #133. To: GarySpFC (#120) ......based on the confidence one has in the object of their belief I not sure that confidence in the object of one's belief is an complete characterization of faith. It certainly is a component of faith just as is a strong, if not abiding, belief based on spiritual realization rather than tangible or scientific proof. In any event faith in the context of our dialogue is a gift from God. It is He that offers it to all and only He that bestows it upon the willing. Thank God, I have faith. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-17   12:29:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #134. To: Pinguinite (#132) Personally, I see little supporting evidence for this claim. Up until about 2 years ago you claimed to be a christian. Rocky ground. A K A Stone  posted on  2015-05-17   13:34:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #135. To: Pinguinite (#132) ver time have held the Bible to be spiritually special, but the same is also true for the Koran. Yeah. The Bible was written by a pedophile. Oh no that was the Muslims. All muslims will burn in hell. Unless they repent. A K A Stone  posted on  2015-05-17   13:36:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #136. To: A K A Stone (#134) Up until about 2 years ago you claimed to be a christian. Rocky ground. To me, being open minded is a positive quality, not a negative one, and that means always being willing to consider new ideas, honestly and as objectively as possible. Any belief system that requires subscribers to be close minded is not an honest belief system, in my view, and I find it unfortunate that some Christians (and others, for that matter) take that position under the guise of being "faithful". But faithfulness and closemindedness should not be mixed. Any faith that is true does not need people to be closeminded to make it work. It can tolerate honest questions and honest review, and no true God would be angered by such honest searching. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   14:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #137. To: A K A Stone (#135) Yeah. The Bible was written by a pedophile. Oh no that was the Muslims. Regardless of the origin of the Koran and Bible, my (minor) point is that both books have a billion or so subscribers. Therefore, one should not / can not take the extended history and widespread recognition of them as fool-proof evidence of divine accuracy. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   14:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #138. To: buckeroo (#129) Are you saying "God" is blind and its all my fault? No! You have scales covering your eyes, which only God can remove. They are a product of your unbelief and hatred for God. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-17   14:51:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #139. To: Pinguinite, BobCeleste, GarySpFc, TooConservative (#132) Newton Newton uses hypnosis for people to realize their spiritual life? So is it accurate to state that Newton or one of his hypnotists are required to reach this spiritual state? Or are there others who provide the same service? I have looked at some of the testimonials of Newton. It seems everyone had fascinating previous lives. Still looking for the testimony of someone who was a Calcutta street sweeper in the 19th century. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-17   15:05:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #140. To: redleghunter (#139) Newton uses hypnosis for people to realize their spiritual life? He uses hypnosis to help people with emotional or psychological difficulties. It was in the course of this work that he encountered the people recalling past lives and, more interestingly, the between life states. This regression has helped a lot of people understand and cope significantly better with issues they face in their current lives. So is it accurate to state that Newton or one of his hypnotists are required to reach this spiritual state? Or are there others who provide the same service? Hypnosis calms the physical mind enough to allow the soul-based memories to be recalled with much less interference. That's all. I have looked at some of the testimonials of Newton. It seems everyone had fascinating previous lives. Still looking for the testimony of someone who was a Calcutta street sweeper in the 19th century. His books, along with those of Brian Weiss, contain plenty of accounts of past lives that are mundane on their face, but are written into the books because they are significant for other reasons. A child falling out of a carriage and crippled by the wheels, for example. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   15:19:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #141. To: GarySpFC (#138) No! You have scales covering your eyes, which only God can remove. They are a product of your unbelief and hatred for God. Gary - you are a drama queen. I have no hatred for God nor religion. But, I do not agree with your beliefs or system of beliefs. Apparently, you want me to identify with your belief system. I am only interested in your belief system, is all. Thanks for helping me to know you. buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-17   16:27:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #142. To: Pinguinite (#132) Your view and my belief are at opposite ends of the spectrum. But look at it this way, If I'm wrong, what have I lost? But, if I'm right what have you lost? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-17   18:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #143. To: BobCeleste, Pinguinite (#142) Your view and my belief are at opposite ends of the spectrum. But look at it this way, If I'm wrong, what have I lost? Your whole lifetime barking up the wrong tree. You would have a whole lifetime of lost opportunities that would have connected you closer to the truth about your existence and relationships to other people. You would have spent your whole lifetime actively leading others done your path to nowhere instead of enriching their life. Need I go on? "But, if I'm right what have you lost?." Likely nothing. Just like you perhaps he will go to Heaven, perhaps not. God will make that call for all of us. Unless of course you already know that you are going to heaven? Well, do you? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-17   19:34:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #144. To: SOSO (#143) Unless of course you already know that you are going to heaven? Well, do you? Yes, Yes I do. I will, upon the micro second of my life, find myself embraced by the Lord Jesus as He welcomes me into His heaven. I have absolutely no doubts about that, none. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-17   21:04:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #145. To: GarySpFC (#128) How one knows he is there is by revelation, only, initiated by him, always. On how one gets to know him, through a relationship, developing over time as effort is put into it. And confidence grows as the relationship deepens. Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-05-17   21:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #146. To: A Pole (#125) Would they be allowed to hold a position in the church? Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-05-17   21:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #147. To: BobCeleste (#144) Yes, Yes I do. I will, upon the micro second of my life, find myself embraced by the Lord Jesus as He welcomes me into His heaven. I have always found the Bible ambiguous on the question of the resurrection of the dead. Whether instant resurrection or a final resurrection of all the dead, it doesn't speak plainly and uniformly to the issue. Theologians still argue it or, more wisely, just avoid the topic. Even Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days before resurrection. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-17   22:18:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #148. To: BobCeleste (#144) Unless of course you already know that you are going to heaven? Well, do you? Yes, Yes I do. I will, upon the micro second of my life, find myself embraced by the Lord Jesus as He welcomes me into His heaven. I have absolutely no doubts about that, none. That is an interesting claim, that you already know God's judgment of you. Hell, you can phone in the rest of life here on earth. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-17   23:51:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #149. To: SOSO (#148) Scripture admonishes us to be sure of our salvation, not to neglect spiritual duties or commit spiritual offenses. So Bob is on very solid ground scripturally. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-18   0:08:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #150. To: buckeroo (#141) I have no hatred for God nor religion. But, I do not agree with your beliefs or system of beliefs. Apparently, you want me to identify with your belief system. I am only interested in your belief system, is all. Jesus is emphatic, you either love or hate Him. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-18   2:44:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #151. To: TooConservative (#149) Scripture admonishes us to be sure of our salvation, not to neglect spiritual duties or commit spiritual offenses. So Bob is on very solid ground scripturally Amen! And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-18   2:50:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #152. To: redleghunter (#35) (Edited) My point was that God never expected all believers to comprehend Greek and Hebrew. Most who claim that they can are either theologians who spent years mastering the language or people reading a lexicon put together by theologians and claiming they know the original languages. The Orthodox Church supports translating the bible into native languages from the Original Greek. See Cyrillic alphabet. http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7068 Translations of the Bible are very necessary, but are not sufficient for formulating dogmas and doctrines of the Church, which requires reference to the original languages. The translations depend upon the genius and knowledge of the translator in the selection of the proper words and phrases to render meaning as close as possible to the text of the original language. It is well-known that a new translation is more or less a new interpretation. Pericles  posted on  2015-05-18   2:51:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #153. To: Biff Tannen (#146) Would they be allowed to hold a position in the church? You mean case of a previously divorced convert to be ordained to the priesthood? I an not sure, bishops deal with such matters. A Pole  posted on  2015-05-18   3:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #154. To: BobCeleste (#142) Your view and my belief are at opposite ends of the spectrum. *That* I would not say. There is a lot of overlap between the Newton model and Christianity. Namely, the overriding importance of love. But look at it this way, If I'm wrong, what have I lost? But, if I'm right what have you lost? Certainly, in terms of risk, I'm at a disadvantage. Maybe that means I have stronger faith than you? But seriously, fear is not a legitimate reason to believe. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-18   3:47:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #155. To: Pinguinite (#132) Characteristics ascribed to God like anger and jealousy are more likely the result of projecting of human traits on God rather than being an accurate description of an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God. In a way you might be right - in that they are metaphors in lieu of projections, metaphors that appeal to the common mental associations. God's "jealousy" means that you may not serve Him and other gods at the same time. You must be faithful or you will be cast out. A rejection of adultery does not mean lack of love, rather the opposite. BTW, God is loving, but He does not use His omnipotence to take away human freedom to err. A Pole  posted on  2015-05-18   4:09:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #156. To: Pericles (#152) The Orthodox Church supports translating the bible into native languages from the Original Greek. See Cyrillic alphabet. Or Vulgate for the vulgar Westerners ;) A Pole  posted on  2015-05-18   4:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #157. To: TooConservative (#147) I have always found the Bible ambiguous on the question of the resurrection of the dead. Whether instant resurrection or a final resurrection of all the dead, it doesn't speak plainly and uniformly to the issue. Theologians still argue it or, more wisely, just avoid the topic. Even Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days before resurrection. Actually, Paul does. An example: 1 Corinthians 15: 12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. That seems pretty plain to me, hope it helps you old friend. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-18   8:33:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #158. To: BobCeleste, TooConservative (#157) I have always found the Bible ambiguous on the question of the resurrection of the dead. Whether instant resurrection or a final resurrection of all the dead, it doesn't speak plainly and uniformly to the issue. Theologians still argue it or, more wisely, just avoid the topic. Even Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days before resurrection. Actually, Paul does. Actually, what I think I remember from theological readings of the eastern fathers is that the souls of the dead do not go either to heaven or hell but fall into a sleep state until Jesus' return when they are then judged. While this sounds like limbo - it is not. I have also read that the saints and martyrs get to bypass the trial phase and go direct to heaven after their deaths. Modern notions seem to think we go to heaven or hell right after we die - and that is at odds with the final judgement part. Pericles  posted on  2015-05-18   8:39:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #159. To: SOSO (#148) Unless of course you already know that you are going to heaven? Well, do you? Yes, Yes I do. I will, upon the micro second of my life, find myself embraced by the Lord Jesus as He welcomes me into His heaven. I have absolutely no doubts about that, none. That is an interesting claim, that you already know God's judgment of you. Hell, you can phone in the rest of life here on earth. It is not a difficult claim to make, Read John 3:1-21 and you will come away asking just what you have to do to be Born Again. Christ Himself answers that question in Luke 23:39-43. I have both written extensively on this and experienced the pain of crucifixion. If you comply with John 3:3 by doing what the thief on the cross to Jesus right did, then you too will have no doubts of where you will spend eternity. And, if you think or have been told that you have to live a perfect life, then go back and read my post for the last 30 years, you will find there is nothing perfect about me. But believe this, there are only two places you can go after death, Heaven or the lake of fire, there aint no purgatory! You pick that destination while you are still alive, after you die it is to late. Put your salvation in no hands, read the word of God yourself and ignore commentary, read some exhortations if yu are having difficulty, but don't even do that till you have reached out to Christ thru the Spirit for help and understanding. You are going to spend eternity in one of those two places, your salvation is to important to be left up to others. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-18   8:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #160. To: Pinguinite (#154) There is a lot of overlap between the Newton model and Christianity. Namely, the overriding importance of love. Sorry, but I cannot agree. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-18   8:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #161. To: Pericles (#152) Translations of the Bible are very necessary, but are not sufficient for formulating dogmas and doctrines of the Church, which requires reference to the original languages. I agree. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-18   9:10:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #162. To: Pericles, BobCeleste (#158) Actually, what I think I remember from theological readings of the eastern fathers is that the souls of the dead do not go either to heaven or hell but fall into a sleep state until Jesus' return when they are then judged. While this sounds like limbo - it is not. I have also read that the saints and martyrs get to bypass the trial phase and go direct to heaven after their deaths. Scripture supports both. And Origen had his doctrine of Purgatory as well. It isn't actually a central question of Christianity. Given the backdrop of eternity, does it matter whether you make it to heaven or hell (or Purgatory) now or ten thousand years from now? Against eternity, any time scale involving the human race has to be miniscule. The Christian should focus on his destination, not his arrival time. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-18   9:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (163 - 248) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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