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Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 72946 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: BobCeleste (#0) "not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." Ummm. Meaning I shouldn't rely on your interpretation. Got it. misterwhite  posted on  2015-05-14   9:14:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: misterwhite (#1) Ummm. Meaning I shouldn't rely on your interpretation. Absolutely correct. Do you think for even one minute saying to God, when He ask you why He should let you into His heaven, "well Bob said" is going to get you a free pass? He will say to you, "Why didn't you read my Word yourself?" For you see, misterwhite, I really don't care if you go to heaven or hell, but God does. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   9:34:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: BobCeleste (#2) " misterwhite, I really don't care if you go to heaven or hell, but God does. " Good reply Bob! Si vis pacem, para bellum Stoner  posted on  2015-05-14   9:48:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: BobCeleste, Stoner, misterwhite, Deckard (#3) " misterwhite, I really don't care if you go to heaven or hell, but God does. " You can see posted here, "pastor" bob ... that people really don't give a damn about what you care for either. The American public has lost trust in "faux pastors." Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-14   10:05:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: BobCeleste (#2) "He will say to you, "Why didn't you read my Word yourself?" And I will respond, "Because I didn't think that 'Ye are cursing cursed words with a cursed curse' was all that important to the way I live my life". And I would ask Him to be clearer next time. misterwhite  posted on  2015-05-14   10:11:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: BobCeleste (#0) (Edited) A Pole  posted on  2015-05-14   10:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: GarySpFC (#0) ping потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   11:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: BobCeleste, GarySpFc, redleghunter (#2) He will say to you, "Why didn't you read my Word yourself?" I would then like to ask God why He deliberately confounded men by creating multiple languages at Babel so that we could not perfectly communicate with each other, especially in the communication of His words......but probably would lack the cojones to do that. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   11:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: BobCeleste (#0) It seems to me that 95% of all sermons preached on Malachi are when a preacher and church board are trying to gin up donations. Otherwise, it gets ignored entirely. Just a general observation. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-14   11:25:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Stoner (#3) " misterwhite, I really don't care if you go to heaven or hell, but God does." Good reply Bob! Thank you my Brother. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   14:45:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: misterwhite (#5) And I will respond, "Because I didn't think that 'Ye are cursing cursed words with a cursed curse' was all that important to the way I live my life". And I would ask Him to be clearer next time. Good luck. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   14:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: SOSO (#8) I would then like to ask God why He deliberately confounded men by creating multiple languages at Babel And He will probably say: "Explained that in Genesis." BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   14:47:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: TooConservative (#9) It seems to me that 95% of all sermons preached on Malachi are when a preacher and church board are trying to gin up donations. Otherwise, it gets ignored entirely. That is why you must study on your own. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   14:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: BobCeleste, GaryDpFc, redleghunter, All (#12) And He will probably say: "Explained that in Genesis." Yes, it was to deliberately confound man. So why so if as you cliam the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew as spoken and written thousands and thousands of years ago. I, like 99.999% of the planet's population can't do that even if we had the time and wherewithal to do so. A bit of a conflicy here, no? Especially since you admit that we shouldn't trust you or anyone else to translate for us. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   14:53:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: SOSO, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#8) I would then like to ask God why He deliberately confounded men by creating multiple languages at Babel so that we could not perfectly communicate with each other, especially in the communication of His words......but probably would lack the cojones to do that. Of course God would direct you to Pentecost. Again, you operate with the notion that God is not sovereign over His own Words and Commands. Luke 21:33-Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Isaiah 40:8-The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 46:10-Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; would then like to ask God why He deliberately confounded men by creating multiple languages at Babel Seems Pentecost brought the Good News from God to every tongue: Acts 2: When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. 5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” 12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."---Jesus Christ "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   16:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: SOSO, BobCeleste, GaryDpFc (#14) Yes, it was to deliberately confound man. So why so if as you cliam the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew as spoken and written thousands and thousands of years ago. I, like 99.999% of the planet's population can't do that even if we had the time and wherewithal to do so. A bit of a conflicy here, no? Especially since you admit that we shouldn't trust you or anyone else to translate for us. As I stated and provided information in my previous post...God provided His Gospel in all languages by the Power of the Holy Spirit. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   16:34:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: SOSO (#14) So why so if as you cliam the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew Show me where I said "the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew" BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   16:52:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: BobCeleste (#17) Show me where I said "the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew" What part of the title of your post, ""This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. " and your posted commet "God's word is to{o} important to trust others with it, your salvation is to{o} important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." don't I understand? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   19:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: redleghunter (#16) ...God provided His Gospel in all languages by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Wrongo, dear Ram. Man has provided those translations not God. Or are you claiming that all the different versions of the NT are each themself authentic originals of God's words and the differences are what is intended by God? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   19:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: redleghunter (#15) Seems Pentecost brought the Good News from God to every tongue: Not to everyone, only to the 12 who then had to spread the News. Tell me again please how many Gospels and writtings in the accepted versions of the NT were writting by the 12. I do not dispute that the Goods News is meant for everyone of every tongue but rather maintain that the construct of languages make perfect fidelity of the translated message by men impossible. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   19:31:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: SOSO (#18) What part of the title of your post, ""This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. " and your posted comment "God's word is to{o} important to trust others with it, your salvation is to{o} important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." don't I understand? So where is the word only? As a matter of fact where does it say "the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew" Put words in your own mouth, not mine. By the way thanks for the spelling lesson. Always had trouble with those to(o)'s professor once told me not to worry about spelling, he said that was why God created secretaries. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   19:40:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: BobCeleste (#0) The Roman Catholic Church tried very hard to keep the understanding of the Scriptures from the people. They fought to keep the Holy Bible in Latin which the common, uneducated folks couldn't read. The Reformers brought the Holy Scriptures to people in translations that the common people could read. Of course, the RCC leaders were happy to tell the commoners what the Scriptures really meant. The corruption in the priestly caste was rampant then as now. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   20:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: BobCeleste (#21) By the way thanks for the spelling lesson. Wasn't meant to be. "God's word is to{o} important to trust others with it, your salvation is to {o} important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." If this doesn't mean that only you, the individual, must read the Bible in its original language to be able to truly understand it nothing does. But, by all means, please explain what you meant by this statement and who other than myself shall I trust to read and understand the Bible in its original languages. Clearly by your own admission, not you. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   20:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Don (#22) And you point is? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   20:57:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: SOSO (#14) Excellent posts, SOSO. You believe much the same way as I do (based on the content of your posts) ... that all we sense around us indeed is a mystery when we attempt to explain creation. If you could describe your beliefs, you are somewhat a deist, aren't you? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   21:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: buckeroo (#25) If you could describe your beliefs, you are somewhat a deist, aren't you? I have an abiding belief in God and Jesus Christ. I was raised as a Roman Catholic but did not indenpently embrace the fundamental teachings and message of the relgion until I had four years of theology as part of my undergraduate engineering degree. While I am not, nor have been, what would be called a devout Catholic I embrace much of what I learned in undergraduate school. Throughout my life I have always tested my beliefs against my personal experiences,the reported experiences of others, and, equally the agruments for the beliefs made by others. I long ago came to the deeply rooted belief that one's mind can only take one so far until one starts to rationalize his positon and eschew logic and subordinate one's intellectual integrity to his religious beliefs. Enter Faith. It is only through Faith that one can reconcile the limitations of one's human intellect with one's beliefs on creation. Also, I never bought the notoin of Sola Scirptura, i.e. - Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice, as scripture without faith and faith without acts does not get one's Get Into Heaven card punched. Hope this answers your question. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   21:23:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: redleghunter, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#16) As I stated and provided information in my previous post...God provided His Gospel in all languages by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Take that argument up with Rev. Bob, it's his thread that says you are wrong. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   21:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: BobCeleste (#0) God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Nonsense! Show me one verse in the Bible where God says you have to be able to read Greek and Hebrew to be saved. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-14   21:36:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: BobCeleste (#24) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:37:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Don (#29) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Which ONE is right? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   21:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: buckeroo (#30) To many people it really doesn't matter. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: SOSO (#19) Christ promised all nations would hear the Gospel. He provided the means on Pentecost. Since then to this day and until His second coming the Gospel continues in every tongue--language. 1 Corinthians 15: 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. 12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   22:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: SOSO (#20) Not to everyone, only to the 12 who then had to spread the News. Not accurate. Where do you see only the 12 receiving the gift of speaking in other languages? God is sovereign in salvation. His Gospel message is for all peoples. I showed you the scriptures addressing these matters. "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”---Jesus Christ "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   22:46:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Don (#31) To [sic] many people it really doesn't matter. To me the question matters as I posed the question to you. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. It must be an awesome event to be able to evade the question about which Bible is the correct version as you receive some sort of mystical guidance from sources high above the clouds, correct? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:07:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: SOSO, GarySpFc, BobCeleste (#27) Take that argument up with Rev. Bob, it's his thread that says you are wrong. No, Bob is pointing out we should be proficient in deriving our doctrines from the original languages. My point was that God never expected all believers to comprehend Greek and Hebrew. Most who claim that they can are either theologians who spent years mastering the language or people reading a lexicon put together by theologians and claiming they know the original languages. As evidenced in the NT, followers of Christ ranged from the simple fishermen and shepherd to the educated tax collector as in Matthew and accomplished Pharisee theologian as in Paul. Different gifts are given to each Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. Paul discusses this in length in his epistles and we see it in action in Acts. Different members of the same Body of Christ. Some are gifted as teachers, some are servants of the church, some are overseers (bishops or elders), some are gifted to reprove, rebuke, encourage, some gifted in languages, some to heal, some are gifted evangelists, some with the gift of love which is the greatest of all. Many more. All are parts of the same body. Some are legs and arms, some eyes and ears, all serve God's purpose and will. All of the above came to know Christ by hearing the Word of the Gospel in their own language as God promised. Thus it was written, thus it is so Jasper. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   23:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: buckeroo, Don, GarySpFc, SOSO (#34) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. The KJV, NKJV, NASB, and YLT (some others) are literal word for word translations from the NT Greek manuscripts. Some versions are passage by passage literal equivalent translations. Some are paraphrased versions. If someone is looking for accuracy in translating from one language to the other, then the literal word for word translations are best. If someone is just starting to read the Bible for understanding then the literal equivalent is good. Yet none of the above matters unless you will blow the dust off the Bible and actually read it and study it and pray. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   23:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: redleghunter (#36) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. Good reply. Which one carries the authoritative, "word of God?" buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:25:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: buckeroo (#34) I believe that someone has answered your question. Do you need my blessing on the translations? Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Don (#38) Feel free to jump in and provide your interpretation of the correct version. Whaddaya think of that Vulgate? Man, that version is one awesome work, isn't it? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:31:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: buckeroo (#37) Bucky, I don't believe your question indicates you really want an answer. You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Why should anyone spend time feeding your hostility toward the Scriptures? Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:31:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (41 - 248) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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