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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In LEFT WING LOONS See other LEFT WING LOONS Articles Title: Fox Hypes Minimal Improper Spending To Demonize Welfare Source: [None] URL Source: [None] Published: May 11, 2015 Author: grandiose demands and HANNAH GROCH-BEGLE Post Date: 2015-05-11 11:19:38 by tpaine Keywords: None Views: 22802 Comments: 55 http://mediamatters.org Fox Hypes Minimal Improper Spending To Demonize Welfare Fox News continued its campaign to demonize welfare benefits, this time hyping improper payments made by a Massachusetts program even though those payments made up only a minimal amount of all benefits paid by the state. On Fox & Friends First, co-host Patti Ann Browne hyped a report that Massachusetts welfare agencies had improperly continued to provide a total of $2.39 million in assistance to 1,164 deceased recipients, calling the figures "ugly." On Fox & Friends, co-host Brian Kilmeade mocked the report, claiming, "More than 2 million dollars. That's the amount of welfare benefits paid out recently to nearly 1200 dead people in Massachusetts. They could not be reached for comment." A http://FoxNews.com article called the audit of the agencies "damning." But according to the audit, improper payments to deceased individuals made up only a tiny amount of total assistance payments made by the state. Massachusetts' Department of Transitional Assistance (DTA) spent more than $1.7 billion in benefits in fiscal year 2012 alone for a variety of financial assistance programs including the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (also known as SNAP, or food stamps) and emergency aid to people with disabilities and children. The audit found only $2.39 million dollars improperly paid to deceased recipients for the entire time period from July 2010 to December 2012. Furthermore, the audit found that Massachusetts has already taken steps to reduce the small number of improper payments in these programs, and according to the official press release, the auditor was "encouraged" by DTA's actions. Fox News has a history of attacking programs for Americans in need. Fox News hosts have tied government assistance programs to the terror attacks committed at the Boston Marathon, mocked food stamps as a diet plan, claimed all individuals who receive government disability benefits are faking their disabilities, and even asked whether children should have to work in exchange for free school meals. Notice anything wrong? Send Silk feedback Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-14) not displayed.       .       .       . #15. To: Vicomte13 (#11) (Edited) Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, Public Schools, housing assistance: all necessary in an industrial age. Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, Public Schools, housing assistance: all necessary in an industrial age in a degenerate age where there is deteriorating attention and adherence to logical consequences. We have a massive out of wedlock birth rate, a massive divorce rate by playboy husbands leaving women with three kids to raise, are shipping jobs and industries out of the country, a subversive educational system, and an imposed socialist welfare system that has to cover the entirity. A mass of useless mindless fruitcakes like you don't help much. rlk  posted on  2015-05-11   15:22:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#3) I'll try to humor you... Don’t worry about it too much. It only takes a very small amount of your comically absurd and incongruous socially awkward quality to result in considerable amusement for me. The hard part is figuring out which of your weird behaviors is humorous and which is your Tourette’s syndrome acting up with its related disorder manifesting as behavior I cannot distinguish from your normal purposefully disruptive, attention seeking and manipulative manner. I may find myself laughing at you when it is inappropriate to laugh and I should be maintaining a more serious demeanor. Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-11   15:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: TooConservative (#5) "Fox Hypes Minimal Improper Spending To Demonize Welfare" "Fox Cites Improper Spending As Just One Example Of Welfare Fraud." misterwhite  posted on  2015-05-11   16:01:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: Vicomte13 (#11) Social Security, Medicare, and Public Schools should all be privatized. Food Stamps, Medicaid, and housing assistance should be handled by churches and private charities at the local level. misterwhite  posted on  2015-05-11   16:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: tpaine (#1) This is a slanted bias libtard advertisement for more welfare. How did I know your only welfare post would be to praise it. lol Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   16:27:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: tpaine (#9) I figured this site is where grandisland picked up his 'demonizing welfare' bullshit. You're so full of garbage... you posted this to give welfare a secret plug... You are as libtard as they come. No shame, you and every agenda poster here is s closet libtard. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   16:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: misterwhite (#18) (Edited) Social Security, Medicare, and Public Schools should all be privatized. Food Stamps, Medicaid, and housing assistance should be handled by churches and private charities at the local level. Churches and private charities can not handle the level of stupidity and self indulgence that is backrupting the federal government at the national level. There must be a change in values and accordent behavior in the national population or we're heading for national collapse. People are going to need to grow up in this country or live in a collapsed third world nation. rlk  posted on  2015-05-11   16:37:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: rlk (#21) "Churches and private charities can not handle the level of stupidity and self indulgence" Not at the current level. Food stamp recipients will no longer be able to get steaks and lobsters, for example. But they WILL eat. misterwhite  posted on  2015-05-11   16:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Gatlin (#16) I may find myself laughing at you when it is inappropriate to laugh ---- There you go.. That line says it all regarding your mental health. -- You really should see a shrink. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   16:54:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: rlk (#21) Churches and private charities can not handle the level of stupidity and self indulgence that is backrupting the federal government at the national level. Nothing can keep up with the growing expense of dependent sheeple... for the exception of pure socialism. That is fact. The greatest enemy to financial independence, capitalism and true freedoms and liberty towards your own money... is welfare and the governments agenda to make the populace dependent upon government for their own job security. So why doesn't the alleged "non libtards" that spend every post with a cop hating agenda, ever complain about welfare? I'll tell ya why... they're more libtard than they want you to know. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   16:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: GrandIsland, claims we're all 'closet libtards' (#20) I figured this site is where grandisland picked up his 'demonizing welfare' bullshit. This is a slanted bias libtard advertisement for more welfare. --- You're so full of garbage... you posted this to give welfare a secret plug... You are as libtard as they come. I posted it to make you look like the fool you are... No shame, you and every agenda poster here is s closet libtard. You're demented... tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   17:05:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: rlk (#15) Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, Public Schools, housing assistance: all necessary in an industrial age in a degenerate age where there is deteriorating attention and adherence to logical consequences. Nope. It's industrialism. Before industrialization, most people had the family farm to retreat to in hard times and could get by. The Church could handle the small urban poor. But with industrialization, the cities burgeoned to the millions. There was still the farm to go home to for a generation, maybe two. But the farmers mostly died off, and people were mostly urban, living in apartments, no longer able to go home to the farm and grow their own food. And economic crises devastate whole cities that are specialized in some aspect of the economy. Net result: a mass of struggling humanity that cannot provide for itself, and that has no home out in the country to go to. The Church doesn't have the resources to handle that. Industrialized socities need government welfare systems to overcome the problem. The choices are: industrialize and have Social Security and welfare, or don't industrialize. You can't industrialize and not have those things without ending up having Indian levels of squalor. Hindu beliefs act as a shock absorber against unrest. Christian and secular values don't. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-11   17:48:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: misterwhite (#18) Social Security, Medicare, and Public Schools should all be privatized. Food Stamps, Medicaid, and housing assistance should be handled by churches and private charities at the local level. Won't work and can't be done. The scale is massive. It has to be done, and the government has to do it. There is no other way, and the bulk of the population knows it. Thanks to the Great Depression, the Republicans were never able to climb out of the hole of resisting the New Deal, not until generations passed and the age of Clinton and Gingrich. But now, thanks to the Republican tin ear in the latest crisis (along with Republican failure on national security and war), they're back in a hole from which they won't emerge. Bitter-enders will refuse to acknowledge the reality of the industrial age, and, like the North-Going Zax and the South-Going Zax they'll stand there, unbudged in their tracks, while the world moves on without them. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-11   17:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: tpaine (#25) I posted it to make you look like the fool you are... Bullshit. You posted it to sell welfare... and disguise the post as something different. 15 years and you've been afraid to praise welfare for fear you'd be exposed as a libtard, so you and the others do the next best thing.... Not say a word about it... AND THEN you get an awesome opportunity to actually praise welfare... and you do, all while still trying to Mask what you are. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   18:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: Vicomte13 (#26) Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, Public Schools, housing assistance: all necessary in an industrial age in a degenerate age where there is deteriorating attention and adherence to logical consequences. Nope. It's industrialism. According to subversives such as you. rlk  posted on  2015-05-11   19:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: GrandIsland (#28) When people are still mostly down on the farm, welfare is not so much needed. In time of drought, maybe. But if life in the town or city becomes hard, people can mostly go back home to the farm and work, eat, spin their own clothes, hunt…start over. But once people move en masse into the cities and sell the farm, then things are different. They're much poorer, though they FEEL richer. They have more liquid money, but they don't have the "security capital" of the farm and the ability to feed themselves through sunshine, rain, seeds and labor. In good times, the "townies" have more than the folks back on the farm, but in bad times, city dwellers with basic jobs and no farm to go home too are poorer than the rural poor, for they have no roof of their own and no way to feed themselves. Industrialization concentrates millions of formerly rural poor into the cities, where they become the proletarian. They FEEL wealthier, and certainly have more cheap material goods and entertainment, but their lives are much more precarious. As long as parents and grandparents or uncles still have the farm out in the outback, there's an escape hatch. But after a couple of generations, that's gone, and there's nothing left but worker's wages, and they're never enough, in the inflating city, to get any sort of permanent security. The proletariat is born, and when times become hard, they crash and suffer. They can't go home, and they won't sit and starve. So they revolt. That's WHY the French, British and American Revolutions, in their day, were contained within the bounds of reason. The British version was tied up with religious excess (the Irish bore the brunt of the Roundheads' fury after the King was killed). The French version got out of control for a little while in Paris, which was a massive city by the standards of those days. But the countryside was still there, and the worst periods of excess were over with in a year as the essentially conservative nature of an essentially rural people reasserted itself. All told, only about 10,000 people actually died in the French Terror, and Robespierre himself and his cohorts were guillotined before two years ran, and it was over. France's Revolution was the harbinger of bad things to come in urban societies, but it stopped short and became, in essence, a conservative, militarist revolution as opposed to a wild red Communist nightmare. Fast forward a century, though, to Mexico, and Russia, and China and Cambodia, countries with vast urban centers that dwarfed 18th Century Paris or anything that was in America or England at the time of their respective revolutions, and the effects of social breakdown are seen. Proletarians don't meekly starve. The rebel, as Marx hoped. They rebel and they destroy and kill. Robespierre was overborne by a "country party", much superior in numbers, which was hardheaded and practical, but which was incensed by things like guillotining clergy, or drowning peasants and the like. The country brought the city to heel in France. In England, the son of the decapitated king was restored and ruled. America was mostly country, making America's revolution particularly conservative (from a "country party" viewpoint) - essentially, the American landed gentry and yeomanry threw off the City of London and its bankers and insurers. But come the 20th Century, and the country was dwarfed by the millions of struggling and desperate people in the cities. Revolution was in the air everywhere, and every industrialized country either adopted a public welfare and social security system, or had a bloody revolution that imposed one. Nobody held the line, because that was impossible. The nature of capitalism is boom and bust. When the busts come, as they must, unemployment comes. People on the farm tighten their belts and grow food. Urban proletarians starve and are evicted, and swell into a sulfurous mass and explode like gunpowder, if not fed and housed. Social Welfare, by the government (as on that scale taxes are required to pay for it) exceeds charity. It isn't charity, it is part of the necessary infrastructure of an urban industrialized and post-industrialized society. It's not OPTIONAL, unless one wishes to "opt" for bloody revolutions and the killing fields. The society that is unwilling to accept FDR gets Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Take you pick. There's a segment of the population - call them libertarians and hard right Republicans, who steadfastly refuse to admit any of that. They never gain power, or if they do, they never hold it, because their ideas are fanciful. Modern industrialized, urban society cannot operate under the norms of the agricultural 18th Century. It's impossible. No people in the world will accept it for very long. You either get peaceful social democracy or you get a revolution. The libertarians and hard right will never accept that. And they'll never have power anywhere for very long either, because trying to operate a modern urban society without social welfare is like trying to drink sea water. It sure would make things easier if we could. But we can't. And no amount of wishful thinking or asserting "the power of prayer", or anything else, is going to change that reality. Unfortunately, trying to talk the fantasists out of their ivory tower is never a winning exercise. You just get boiling oil poured on you and arrows shot into you head. That's why society doesn't really ENGAGE with the ideas of the libertarians or the far right, but instead just sort of ring-fences them. To my credit, I try to talk to these folks. I try to make them see, to talk them off the ledge. If they would accept reality as it is, there is PLENTY that could be done to better protect individual liberty and basic property rights within the structure of a social welfare state. Certainly we could have a more just tax system, less corrupt government, and probably even allow laxness in certain areas of civil liberties that we currently do not. But the price of all of that political reform is political control, and that means numbers. And the fact is that 85% of the population "gets it" that we can't just scotch Social Security, Medicare and Welfare. Ever. If the 15% who don't currently accept that reality could be talked down off the ledge, they form a substantial mass that could tip the scales of the political balance quite decisively in the direction of greater liberty WITHIN a social welfare state. But holding out for the end of the Social Welfare state is really just like the hard right Europeans who hold out for the restoration of the old monarchies. There's a Royalist Party in France. They're very sincere…like museum pieces of a time that is gone and that cannot be raised from the dead. If they put their considerable educations (and WEALTH! Sacre Bleu is there still a lot of wealth in the old families!) into building a different political order, European states could be much better governed. But by holding out for fantasy, they leave possession of the field to the crooks. Same thing in America. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-11   19:53:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: rlk (#29) According to subversives such as you. "Subversive." What a hoot, You're a wingnut in the fever swamps of the extreme right. I'm trying to send you a lifeboat, really. I at least treat people like you with enough respect to try to engage you on your ideas. You're wrong, and I know that - the whole world knows it - but you're sincere and loyal, and those are good traits to have in allies. But you're like the Polish cavalry charging the tanks: the world has moved on from the world you believed in. It is never, ever coming back unless civilization collapses and we end up reverting to subsistence agriculture after massive die offs. And that's not bloody likely. Social Welfare isn't subversive. It's necessary. Trying to get rid of it is subversive. It's like chopping the supports out from under a bridge. If we were a country of 10 million people it might work. But we're a nation of 300 million and growing, 96% urbanized. We cannot live according to the ideals of the rural past, because the physical structures that supported the rural past are gone with the wind. The reality is that we live in cities and are dependent on large structures for food, water, transport, light, clothes, shelter. And we don't have the reserves we did back on the farm. That's all gone now. It probably wasn't a good trade off, but it was a trade that was made, and now here we are, living in cities, unable to "go back to the land" that we don't own anymore, or have the skills or tools to till. Or the will. In THIS world, we need social welfare, unless you prefer bloody revolution, Communism, National Socialism or Fascism. Take you pick. It's an unappetizing stew. What we have isn't so terrible. We live longer, have more options, know more, see more, and don't have to work as hard physically as our ancestors. These are, overall, reasonable gains. But they are, to a degree, the gains of the zoo animal: animals in the zoo live much longer than their wild counterparts. But the zoo is a prison, or can be. We don't have to make the social welfare state our prison. But we're not going to tear it down either, because that would mean mass starvation and death. Not happening. Come on - knock of the "subversive" business. This is REALITY. Open your eyes to it. You have much to offer as a realist. Dwelling in dreams of a never-never land just takes you off the game board for good. And for what? Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-11   20:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: GrandIsland (#28) I figured this site is where grandisland picked up his 'demonizing welfare' bullshit. This is a slanted bias libtard advertisement for more welfare. --- You're so full of garbage... you posted this to give welfare a secret plug... You are as libtard as they come. I posted it to make you look like the fool you are... And succeeded. No shame, you and every agenda poster here is s closet libtard. You're accusing everyone posting at LF of being a closet retarded liberal? -- You're demented. Bullshit. You posted it to sell welfare... and disguise the post as something different. I "disguised" nothing. -- You're overwrought. Seek help. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   20:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Vicomte13 (#30) (Edited) When people are still mostly down on the farm, welfare is not so much needed. In time of drought, maybe. But if life in the town or city becomes hard, people can mostly go back home to the farm and work, eat, spin their own clothes, hunt…start over. We are a little past your Little House on the Prairie dream. Millions Upon millions of sheep depend on the government to survive in the urban jungles called cities. They can't even spell F A R M. The greatest threat you have towards your Liberty isn't the police... it's the governments ability to manufacture SHEEPLE... and your peers eagerness to accept that lifestyle. It's what is causing your police forces to get bigger.... lazy, drug addicted, dependent Sheeple that can't survive without the police, DSS or some other government agency to instantly fix their dysfunctional problems that they've created all their lives. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   20:15:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: GrandIsland (#33) Actually, the greatest threat is sexual license. The problem with sexual license is that it rots the society out utterly. Children are bent young, and stay bent. Unable to form lasting, permanent relationships, they drift from casual pleasure to casual pleasure, age, don't marry, don't have children…and don't have the social support that family offers. To support the free sex lifestyle, women become murderers of their own children, thereby ruining their mental stability for the rest of their lives, and defending it. A significant portion do marry, and half divorce, leaving children damaged and as crazy as the parents. Contraception drives down the birth rate. And at the end of the day, the population goes into a demographic death spiral, where it's been for quite some time. Nature abhors a vacuum. People enter to fill it. They have, they are, they will. Bienvenidos a Los Estados Unidos Norte Americanos. And that's all she wrote. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-11   20:25:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: tpaine (#32) (Edited) Here is fact... In 15 years of being a professional online agenda activist... the only article you've posted in regards to welfare was a pro welfare libtard media hit piece, and you willingly pay some of the highest taxes and live amongst the most libtard regulations of all 50 states, kookifornia. KILLary will be proud of you. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   20:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Vicomte13 (#31) We cannot live according to the ideals of the rural past, because the physical structures that supported the rural past are gone with the wind. You're wrong about the ideals, and the physical structures. I recently moved to rural northern California, and everything is still here, as are the idealistic people who can, if needed, survive a collapse. The reality is that we live in cities and are dependent on large structures for food, water, transport, light, clothes, shelter. And we don't have the reserves we did back on the farm. That's all gone now. True enough, the reserves are gone, -- for the urban masses. Come a collapse, and they will die, but much of our rural population will survive. It probably wasn't a good trade off, but it was a trade that was made, and now here we are, living in cities, unable to "go back to the land" that we don't own anymore, or have the skills or tools to till. Or the will. You don't have a clue about how skillfull most rural americans are. We can cope. In THIS world, we need social welfare, unless you prefer bloody revolution, Communism, National Socialism or Fascism. Take you pick. In this world, we need to teach the urban masses how to survive when the lights go out. This cannot be done while giving them bread and circuses. Maybe we should have mandatory survival/boot camps every summer for the welfare queens, thugs and their spawn. It's an unappetizing stew. What we have isn't so terrible. We live longer, have more options, know more, see more, and don't have to work as hard physically as our ancestors. These are, overall, reasonable gains. But they are, to a degree, the gains of the zoo animal: animals in the zoo live much longer than their wild counterparts. But the zoo is a prison, or can be. --- We don't have to make the social welfare state our prison. But we're not going to tear it down either, because that would mean mass starvation and death. Not happening. Your head is in the sand. It's about to happen. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   20:45:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: GrandIsland (#35) --- you and every agenda poster here is s closet libtard. You're accusing everyone posting at LF of being a closet retarded liberal? -- You're demented. Bullshit. You posted it to sell welfare... and disguise the post as something different. I "disguised" nothing. -- You're overwrought. Seek help. Here is fact... In 15 years of being a professional online agenda activist... You've lost all control. -- I'm a retired building contactor, having some fun with left wing loons, like you. -- the only article you've posted in regards to welfare was a pro welfare libtard media hit piece, and you willingly pay some of the highest taxes and live amongst the most libtard regulations of all 50 states, kookifornia. KILLary will be proud of you. Babble on, have a few more drinks. This could get good. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   21:03:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: tpaine (#37) You're accusing everyone posting at LF of being a closet retarded liberal? -- You're demented. Just the agenda posters. I'll give you one example. Willie Green. He has the cho cho agenda and is a libtard. People that come here and post just about one thing... have skeletons in their closet. You must know a few others. lol Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   21:30:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite, Willie Green, gatlin, etc. (#38) (Edited) You're accusing everyone posting at LF of being a closet retarded liberal? -- You're demented. Just the agenda posters. You're trying to make us believe you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, -- do not have agendas? Good grief Grandi, get a grip! -- Have another drink, you ARE getting goofy. I'll give you one example. --- Willie Green. He has the cho cho agenda and is a libtard. We agree on Willy. And you have a libtard fetish, and you're a big govt sycophant. People that come here and post just about one thing... have skeletons in their closet. You must know a few others. lol Yep, I know your buddy robertpaulsen/misterwhite the best. - Almost 15 years. He's a majority rule, big govt sycophant loony. You fit right in with him. And talk of skeletons, -- 'major' gatlin has so many, he can't keep them all in the closet.. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-11   22:04:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: tpaine (#39) You're trying to make us believe you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, -- do not have agendas? My only agenda here is I'm ANTI AGENDA. lol Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   22:50:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: tpaine (#39) We agree on Willy. And you have a libtard fetish, and you're a big govt sycophant. Only a libtard hates the word libtard. lol Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   22:53:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: tpaine (#39) Yep, I know your buddy robertpaulsen/misterwhite the best. - Almost 15 years. He's a majority rule, big govt sycophant loony. You fit right in with him. I'm for very limited government. I'd like to see 75% of all federal jobs axed... but I do feel state, city and county police need to be kept in numbers needed to deal with the volumes of calls and crime. They need to be trained and equipped with whatever it takes to do their jobs given any horrific act any group of our population does to victimize our society... and your animal peers in Ferguson, Baltimore, NYC, North Hollywood, columbine... and the list goes on, are LE's greatest job security. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy GrandIsland  posted on  2015-05-11   23:02:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Vicomte13 (#31) This is REALITY. Open your eyes to it. Spoken like a true French nobleman, masses of fancy fopish words in an attempt to overwhelm realism. The basic issue you refuse to face is that the greatest cost to the welfare system is the result of self-indulgent people of all classes and ranks making decisions without regard for long term consequences. It's part of a personal crusade of yours. Good-bye... rlk  posted on  2015-05-12   0:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: tpaine (#36) What has happened in every country that is urbanized and experiences economic collapse is one of two things: emergency social welfare, organized by the state, or the lack thereof, in which case the massive number of urban dwellers go out and murder the countryfolk and take their stuff. Russia, China, Laos, Cambodia, Mexico, and so forth. This is an old familiar theme. People don't starve. They go to where the food is, in force. In countries that are under control, the government mediates this through social welfare. In countries were people are stupid and stubborn, there is no social welfare - there is war - and in modern wars, the Kulaks get creamed every time. "Country folks can survive" sang Hank Williams, Jr. General Sherman and Stalin and Mao and Poil Pot demonstrated that, against modern armies, no they can't. If country folks were left alone, they might make it. Nobody is going to leave them alone. The world never works that way, not over there, and not over here. So, we can be our brother's keeper, nice and civilized, with a social safety net and the requisite level of wealth redistribution to keep things from falling apart. Or we can choose the path of idiocy, break to pieces, and have revolution and mass murder. The first path is the better path by far. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-12   0:58:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: rlk (#43) Yes, good bye rlk. Fade into irrelevancy in the fever swamps with the 5% who think like you do. And wait until it all goes to shit, which you're sure it will right down to the last Medicare, and then Medicaid dollar that keeps you alive in your final illness. And then die and watch from the afterlife as nothing you believe in EVER comes to pass the way you think it will. It never has, and it never will, because the world is not really like what you say. What you call "reality" is a fantasy that never happened, never happens, and never will happen. But go ahead and dream of apocalypse that will prove you right in the end. It will never come like that. We know how the REAL apocalypse is going to come, and why, because we've been given a fore view. And it doesn't have anything to do with the social welfare state. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-12   1:01:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: GrandIsland (#42) People that come here and post just about one thing... have skeletons in their closet. You must know a few others. lol Yep, -- talk of skeletons, -- 'major' gatlin has so many, he can't keep them all in the closet.. And I know your buddy robertpaulsen/misterwhite the best. - Almost 15 years. He's a majority rule, big govt sycophant loony. You fit right in with him. I'm for very limited government. I'd like to see 75% of all federal jobs axed... Don't we all? -- Even law n' order/big govt types like you know the feds are out of control, --- BUT: --- --- but I do feel state, city and county police need to be kept in numbers needed to deal with the volumes of calls and crime. They need to be trained and equipped with whatever it takes to do their jobs given any horrific act any group of our population does to victimize our society... and your animal peers in Ferguson, Baltimore, NYC, North Hollywood, columbine... and the list goes on, are LE's greatest job security. Your weird comment about 'animal peers', 'victimizing our society' shows your true agenda. -- Thanks. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-12   10:43:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Vicomte13 (#44) What has happened in every country that is urbanized and experiences economic collapse is one of two things: emergency social welfare, organized by the state, or the lack thereof, in which case the massive number of urban dwellers go out and murder the countryfolk and take their stuff. -- Russia, China, Laos, Cambodia, Mexico, and so forth. This is an old familiar theme. People don't starve. They go to where the food is, in force. Yep, that's what happens in those other countries, the armed 'countryfolk' of the USA will not let that happen here. In countries that are under control, the government mediates this through social welfare. In countries were people are stupid and stubborn, there is no social welfare - there is war - and in modern wars, the Kulaks get creamed every time. --- "Country folks can survive" sang Hank Williams, Jr. General Sherman and Stalin and Mao and Poil Pot demonstrated that, against modern armies, no they can't. Do you really suppose our army will support a dictatorial govt, and fight their own countrymen? If country folks were left alone, they might make it. Nobody is going to leave them alone. The world never works that way, not over there, and not over here. --- So, we can be our brother's keeper, nice and civilized, with a social safety net and the requisite level of wealth redistribution to keep things from falling apart. Or we can choose the path of idiocy, break to pieces, and have revolution and mass murder. The first path is the better path by far. It's a choice of your brand of socialism or chaos, aye? -- You need rest... tpaine  posted on  2015-05-12   10:59:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: tpaine (#47) (Edited) Do you really suppose our army will support a dictatorial govt, and fight their own countrymen? Of course. They did it in the Whiskey Rebellion. They did it in the Civil War. They did it when MacArthur rode down the Veterans in Washington DC. They were ready to do it in the South when Mississippi burnt and the schools were ordered open. The military men will follow orders. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-12   15:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: tpaine (#47) It's a choice of your brand of socialism Socialism? That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Socialism is public ownership of the means of production. I don't care about that. Social welfare is insurance, not socialism. It's a clear difference. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-12   15:17:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: Vicomte13 (#49) Do you really suppose our army will support a dictatorial govt, and fight their own countrymen? Of course. They did it in the Whiskey Rebellion. They did it in the Civil War. They did it when MacArthur rode down the Veterans in Washington DC. They were ready to do it in the South when Mississippi burnt and the schools were ordered open. --- The military men will follow orders. Don't bet on it, if it's an Obama type regime, trying to stop rural citizens from defending themselves from urban mobs. It's a choice of your brand of socialism, - or a surrender to anarchy? Socialism? That word doesn't mean what you think it means. --- Socialism is public ownership of the means of production. I don't care about that- -- Social welfare is insurance, not socialism. Your brand of 'social insurance' would lead us down the road to serfdom. There's a clear difference tpaine  posted on  2015-05-12   19:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: tpaine (#50) Your brand of 'social insurance' would lead us down the road to serfdom. "My brand" of social insurance has been in place in America for 80 years, and in the most developed parts of Europe for over a century. Far from leading anybody into serfdom, it has made people freer and given them greater choices than ever before. What it HAS done is clip the wings, somewhat, of the plutocracy (but they're still doing fine). You people on the far Right have been making the same hysterical pronouncements for one hundred years. You've been wrong all along, and you still are. Generations pass and you never learn from your mistakes. The greatest irony is that many on the far Right are people who would not be literate or have much security at all but for the fact of the social welfare state, starting with universal public schooling. The upper class generally understand, from long and bitter experience (they DID learn something) that everybody has to have enough to live on decently, that if there's any substantial number of people in desperation, there will be violent revolt and democratic movement...and democracy on the march never favors the interests of the small cohort of super rich. So THEY get it just about everywhere, and generally support the social welfare state: it keeps the peace. And then there is the far Right, perpetually aggrieved that the world just doesn't behave the way they think it ought to. And they never seem to get it. So the world moves on anyway, and they get pulled along, kicking and screaming all the way, declaiming how everything is unraveling and we're all going to hell in a handbasket very soon. And it keeps not happening. Lather. Reince. Repeat. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-12   19:39:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: Vicomte13 (#51) Your brand of 'social insurance' would (and has) lead us down the road to serfdom. "My brand" of social insurance has been in place in America for 80 years, and in the most developed parts of Europe for over a century. Far from leading anybody into serfdom, it has made people freer and given them greater choices than ever before. Recent history is showing us the failure of 'your brand' of socialistic welfare. It is about to collapse, and you are in denial of that fact. What it HAS done is clip the wings, somewhat, of the plutocracy (but they're still doing fine). --- You people on the far Right have been making the same hysterical pronouncements for one hundred years. You've been wrong all along, and you still are. Generations pass and you never learn from your mistakes. The social welfare states you champion are going broke, and believe you me, we will learn from those mistakes. Millions will die because of the coming financial collapse. The greatest irony is that many on the far Right are people who would not be literate or have much security at all but for the fact of the social welfare state, starting with universal public schooling. Our grandfather's did quite well without the social welfare state. They built up a fantastic capitalistic civilisation, and then watched it degrade under the 'progressive socialism' of the last 80 years. The upper class generally understand, from long and bitter experience (they DID learn something) that everybody has to have enough to live on decently, that if there's any substantial number of people in desperation, there will be violent revolt and democratic movement...and democracy on the march never favors the interests of the small cohort of super rich. So THEY get it just about everywhere, and generally support the social welfare state: it keeps the peace. Yep, bread and circuses sure worked for the Romans. And then there is the far Right, perpetually aggrieved that the world just doesn't behave the way they think it ought to. And they never seem to get it. ---- So the world moves on anyway, and they get pulled along, kicking and screaming all the way, declaiming how everything is unraveling and we're all going to hell in a handbasket very soon. --- And it keeps not happening. It is happening, and you're whistling in the soon to be graveyard. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-12   20:20:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: tpaine (#52) Ideological impasse. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-13   0:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: tpaine (#0) The practical effect of the present welfare system is not to cure incompetence and degeneracy, but to subsidize and encourage it. rlk  posted on  2015-05-13   0:24:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Vicomte13, rlk (#53) 53. To: tpaine (#52) ---- Ideological impasse. --- Vicomte13 The practical effect of the present welfare system is not to cure incompetence and degeneracy, but to subsidize and encourage it. --- rlk The effects on human beings of our present day welfare system, --- go far beyond the mere ideological. tpaine  posted on  2015-05-13   2:38:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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