Title: Love Source:
[None] URL Source:[None] Published:May 7, 2015 Author:A K A Stone Post Date:2015-05-07 20:54:34 by A K A Stone Keywords:None Views:24112 Comments:69
#30. To: Liberator, rlk, buckeroo, redleghunter (#25)
Do you all three FOUR doubt:
The thing I doubt is the fidelity of man scribes translating the Word Of God into mutilpe languages from a language of over two thousand years old and several hundread years removed (thousands in the case of the OT) from the events being described. God is perfect, man is not.
SO not this sh*t again. We have had lenghty discussions about this on a number of different threads here. So I will just say again, God is perfect, man is flawed. God is perfect, chruches are flawed. God is perfect, man organized and administered relions are flawed.
And let me make this perfectly clear to you, I have an abiding belief in God and Jesus. I do not have any belief in any man that claims to know the mind of God or knows the one true understanding of God's words. Over and out for me on this subject. You will find a sympatheic ear in redleghunter.
The thing I doubt is the fidelity of man scribes translating the Word Of God into mutilpe languages from a language of over two thousand years old and several hundread years removed (thousands in the case of the OT) from the events being described. God is perfect, man is not.
And let me make this perfectly clear to you, I have an abiding belief in God and Jesus.
Thanks for the honest, candid assessment and explanation.
In short it's the fidelity and survivability of translation of the events and of THE word of God over the many centuries that gives you pause...
Can you accept the notion that absolute nothing is impossible for God -- and everything *possible*? Then why harbor doubts of a Scripture inspired from God Himself and so transcribed exactly as He intended it be preserved? Yes, man is a liar, imperfect, and flawed. Yet man transcribed the Word. Perfectly. Moreover, as far as you or anyone can tell from scripture, does it appear that God is a liar? That is the true test of "fidelity."
You concede that you are a Believer. Despite your reservations over "fidelity" issues, there must be a convincing measure of intellectual and spiritual surety of faith within your own heart that the Gospel IS the word of God.
I don't know what the deeds of the Nicolaitans are. Nobody does. Scripture doesn't say. Lots of people use that as the opportunity to engage in adding to Scripture - by supplying the list of things they personally hate, and ascribing that list to God. That's nice, but it's not honest.
Whoever the Nicolaitans are, and whatever they were doing that was hateful to Christ, we don't know. All we know from this that Christ hates, and that he hates certain works, and that he hates certain doctrines.
What, exactly, those doctrines were, we can't know.
Perhaps this may help;
These were, as is commonly supposed, a sect of the Gnostics, who taught the most impure doctrines, and followed the most impure practices. They are also supposed to have derived their origin from Nicolas, one of the seven deacons mentioned Ac 6:5, where see the note. The Nicolaitanes taught the community of wives, that adultery and fornication were things indifferent, that eating meats offered to idols was quite lawful; and mixed several pagan rites with the Christian ceremonies. Augustine, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, and Tertullian, have spoken largely concerning them
#34. To: Liberator, rlk, buckeroo, redleghunter (#31)
In short it's the fidelity and survivability of translation of the events and of THE word of God over the many centuries that gives you pause...
Let's try this one more time.
In short it's the fidelity and survivability of translationS of the events pertaining to man's representation of the word of God that gives me pause.
Languages from 2,000+ years ago are either dead or do not have the same meaning of words and idioms, etc. as they do today or 500 years ago or 1,000 years ago or 1,500 years ago. Every language changes over time. Just look at the English language as spoken and written in the U.S. over the past 200 years, even just 50 years (e.g. - the word gay used to mean happy, light hearted). Why do you think that there are so many versions of the NT and so many sects of Chrisianity that think that it they and only they have the true understanding of God's words?
I hope this clarifies my position for you. I really do not want to rehash this over and over again.
The thing I doubt is the fidelity of man scribes translating the Word Of God into mutilpe languages from a language of over two thousand years old and several hundread years removed (thousands in the case of the OT) from the events being described. God is perfect, man is not.
So you don't think God can preserve His own words, gospel and commands? That man is sovereign over the acts of Diety?
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
Well .. let me tell ya 'bout love. The Christians hate the Jews for murdering Jesus Christ & the Jews hate the Muslims & the Muslims hate the Christians. Oh and the Christians hate the Muslims and the Jews hate the Christians. And the Muslims hate the Jews. And the world is on the brink of WW3 because everyone is just "lovey-dovey."
Correction, Christians do not hate either Muslims or Jews. It is more correct to say Christians hate evil ways, but they certainly do not hate any individuals or ethnic groups.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
But you don't "love" the folks you describe otherwise; you could have suggested that you do but denied the personal perspective. So, you are just a normal fear mongering "hater" denying your position in time & space because of indifference or fear. You could be the worst kind, too. The US government calls your affiliation, "Meaningless & rambling TERRORIST." Be careful, the NSA is watching.
You couldn't be more wrong
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The guy you mention is long gone & ain't comin' back. All these other, "self-proclaimed Christians" you discuss follow the example as they see fit; it varies all over the map of individual interpretations.
Quit hurling accusations, and open your eyes and ears.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Love and hate are emotions. I am capable of mastering my actions regardless of my emotions. I am not, however, capable of creating emotions that I don't have. Nor am I capable of making emotions I do have vanish. I can control my actions, but I do not control my feelings.
Which is why I have some sympathy for gays. After all, I've had powerful crushes on certain girls that have lasted for years. I was not capable of creating a crush; nor was I capable of dispelling one. These things just ARE.
Agape love is a choice. One can indirectly master their emotions, however it takes time and effort to change the will.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
As a Christian, I hate only those whom God has first hated. For as His slave, His bond servant, I not only serve Him I take on His loves and hates as well.
Completely unscriptural. You just want to hate.
Anyone you want to hate you simply declare that God hates them and therefore you get hate them as well.
Hatred and killing are in your heart.
This is why I object to you taking on the mantle of a pastor, indeed of a Christian. Any Christian can see through you immediately but you drive non-christians away.
You frequently comment that we cannot know what the Bible says, because languages change. That remark is beyond the pale of ignorance. We have so many manuscripts from the New Testament Era that it will take at least 100 years for scholars to review them. These manuscripts tell the meaning of words throught the N.T,
Below is but one example.
Libraries in the Ancient World
"Well, in a recent study published in 2009, there was an analysis of 53 libraries from antiquity that have been recovered intact. And what I mean by that is, the entire library: the actual literature itself—the various books—as well as supporting documentation, private letters, and things like that. The entire collection was dumped at the same time. So when scholars were sifting through the dry sands of Egypt, or whatever the location is, all of these books were found together. Of course, this is wonderful, because the books then can be studied together. We not only have copies of literature, but we have letters that have dates on them. We have correspondence talking about the books—requests that a new one be copied, or a request that one that had been loaned out be returned, and so forth. And so this kind of information has enabled scholars to reconstruct the history of the library, as it were. Now, I’m talking about 53 libraries—not archives, business papers, and that sort of thing, but libraries, [consisting] of literature. The smallest library that’s been analyzed had 12 books in it, and some of the largest have close to 1,000 books. Many of these libraries that were found intact were recovered from the dry sands of Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, where about a half million texts were recovered from 1896 on into the 20th century, when the digging finally came to an end.
The Answer for the Longevity Question
What we’ve learned is that these libraries contained books that were in use, before being retired or discarded—were in use anywhere from 150 years to 500 years. It was noticed that most of these books fell in the 200- to 300-year range before being retired or discarded or thrown out. This has enormous implications for our understanding of the NT manuscripts and [for] our question: How long were they used? What was their longevity before they were retired or thrown out? Craig A. Evans, NT308 The Reliability of New Testament Manuscripts (Logos Mobile Education; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).
The libraries found at Oxyrhynchus were in a huge pile 30 feet deep.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Biff, you are acting like a buffon again, you had your chance to ask any question or questions you wanted to and did not, I'll not waste my time on you again, till you publicly admit that you are a liar.
Christians do not hate either Muslims or Jews. It is more correct to say Christians hate evil ways, but they certainly do not hate any individuals or ethnic groups.
Really? You wrote the above? Ever hear of the Crusades (primarily Muslim) or the the Black Plague (primarily Jews)?
buckeroo: The guy you mention is long gone & ain't comin' back. All these other, "self-proclaimed Christians" you discuss follow the example as they see fit; it varies all over the map of individual interpretations.
GarySpFC: Quit hurling accusations, and open your eyes and ears.
I hate to step on your toes but you are becoming increasingly defensive. You don't seem to understand what I am attempting to discuss. Let me be clear: since the absence of Jesus Christ, there are hundreds of "Christian religions." Some even defy the basic tenets of "Christianity." Which "Christian religion" is the right one? The one that suits me or the one that suits you?
There are even about a hundred "official" Bibles. Which one is correct? Yours or the guy/gal that lives ten doors down the street from you?
Really? You wrote the above? Ever hear of the Crusades (primarily Muslim) or the the Black Plague (primarily Jews)?
Has tyme changed because you said so?
Prior to the Muslim conquest of North Africa and the Middle East those regions were almost completely Christian. The Crusades were mounted to bring back under control those areas which were rightly belonged to Christians.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
I hate to step on your toes but you are becoming increasingly defensive. You don't seem to understand what I am attempting to discuss. Let me be clear: since the absence of Jesus Christ, there are hundreds of "Christian religions." Some even defy the basic tenets of "Christianity." Which "Christian religion" is the right one? The one that suits me or the one that suits you?
You haven't stepped on my toes. I clearly understand the points you are attempting to make. Firstly, there are NOT hundreds of Christian religions, but only one. There are however hundreds of denominations. Secondly, the Early Church Fathers spent years searching the Word to identify the true followers of Christ, and their answers are contained in the creeds. Thirdly, the autographs would be the inerrant Bible, however they are non-extant. Today's modern translations are considered accurate, and each believer has a responsiblity to search for the truth and to walk in the light.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
... there are NOT hundreds of Christian religions, but only one. There are however hundreds of denominations.
So which one is the right one? The one that suits you or the one that suits the guy down the street?
Secondly, the Early Church Fathers spent years searching the Word to identify the true followers of Christ, and their answers are contained in the creeds.
OK ... the Vulgate came in handy for Luther to literally condemn, which later caused the Thirty Year's War. How do you explain love between Christian "denominations" for over over thirty years in Europe, murdering each other?
Thirdly, the autographs would be the inerrant Bible, however they are non-extant. Today's modern translations are considered accurate, and each believer has a responsiblity to search for the truth and to walk in the light.
Kinda difficult to "walk in the light" when there isn't any showing all this Christian "love" for two thousand years.
buckeroo: I want to also know your response about the plague. How did caring and loving Christians murder Jews during the Black Plague in Europe?
Naughty, naughty, Gary ... I asked first, second (above) and now, a third tyme ... for the same or similar question about the Christians in regards to the Jews during the Black Plague. Where was all the love, the warmth, the compassion and the Sunday Church chicken dinners being shared with their brothers: the Jews?
From your post #41:
GarySpFC: Correction, Christians do not hate either Muslims or Jews. It is more correct to say Christians hate evil ways, but they certainly do not hate any individuals or ethnic groups.
Remember that itsie, bitsie, teenie, weenie wittle post you created?
