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Title: Back PRIORS AND PRECEDENT Same-Sex Marriage Gets Its Big Day At The Supreme Court
Source: FiveThirtyEight
URL Source: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ ... -big-day-at-the-supreme-court/
Published: Apr 28, 2015
Author: Oliver Roeder
Post Date: 2015-04-29 12:33:58 by Jameson
Keywords: SCOTUS, Marraige, 538
Views: 27174
Comments: 119

The question of whether there is a constitutional right to same-sex marriage will finally have its day in court this week. On Tuesday, the Supreme Court will hear two and a half hours of oral argument in a quartet of cases on this subject. If the court reverses lower court rulings that upheld bans on same-sex marriage, it could mean that every state would have to honor such marriages performed in other states, and could require every state to permit them. A decision is expected this summer, most likely in late June. In this edition of Priors and Precedent, we’ll dig into some data and two sources of predictions for this landmark case. First, some background.

The Case

The petitioners are 12 couples and two widowers from states that bar same-sex marriage. A recent profile by NPR dubbed them “‘accidental activists,’ meaning they filed lawsuits not to further a cause but because of the way the bans affected their lives.”

The challenge to the bans, known as Obergefell v. Hodges, is actually four cases rolled into one.1 The court consolidated them and limited its consideration to these two questions:

Does the 14th Amendment require a state to license a marriage between two people of the same sex? Does the 14th Amendment require a state to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was lawfully licensed and performed out-of-state?

The first is called the “marriage” question, the second the “recognition” question. The court will hear 90 minutes of argument on the former and an hour of argument on the latter. Civics refresher: The 14th Amendment guarantees certain rights under its “due process” and “equal protection” clauses.

If the answer to the first question is “yes,” then the answer to the second is irrelevant, of course.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 33.

#2. To: Jameson (#0)

"Does the 14th Amendment require a state to license a marriage between two people of the same sex?"

Why two people? Why not three?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   12:43:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite, Jameson (#2)

Why two people? Why not three?

Why not four?

deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Why would an ultra-liberal interpretation not apply to protect the love expressed by those of the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)? Are those not persons?

Why would a certain judge in New York not apply her interpretation of person to protect the love of a chimpanzee and any other(?) person.

Obergefell v Hodges, Dir. Ohio Depart of Health, U.S. Supreme Court No 14-556, Official Transcript of Oral Arguent, April 28, 2015.

In citation, Obergefell is the first named case. Other named cases are Tanco v Haslam No. 14-565 (Tennessee), DeBoer v Snyder No.14-571 (Michigan), and Bourke v Beshear No. 14-575 (Kentucky).

Transcript of Oral Argument, Part 1 of 2, at 10:02 a.m.

Transcript of Oral Argument, Part 2 of 2, at 11:39 a.m.

In part 1 at 18,

17 JUSTICE ALITO: Well, what if there's no -- 18 these are 4 people, 2 men and 2 women, it's not -- it's 19 not the sort of polygamous relationship, polygamous 20 marriages that existed in other societies and still 21 exist in some societies today. And let's say they're 22 all consenting adults, highly educated. They're all 23 lawyers. 24 (Laughter.)

nolu chan  posted on  2015-04-29   16:59:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: nolu chan (#8)

Why would an ultra-liberal interpretation not apply to protect the love expressed by those of the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)? Are those not persons?

Why would a certain judge in New York not apply her interpretation of person to protect the love of a chimpanzee and any other(?) person.

Yes....the slippery slope argument....

Always popular in these discussions.

I'm not sure any of this applies to the North American Marlin Brando Look-Alikes (NAMBLA) ....but good point anyway!

Jameson  posted on  2015-04-30   8:12:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jameson (#17)

Why would an ultra-liberal interpretation not apply to protect the love expressed by those of the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)? Are those not persons?

Why would a certain judge in New York not apply her interpretation of person to protect the love of a chimpanzee and any other(?) person.

Yes....the slippery slope argument....

It is a constitutional argument. Justice Alito raisded the question "Well, what if there no -- these are 4 people, 2 men and 2 women, it not - it's not the sort of polygamous relationship ... [a]nd lets say they're all consenting adults, highly educated. They're all lawyers."

Why would the legal logic offered for same-sex marriage not extend to polygamous marriage? Or Man-boy marriage?

The 14th amendment provides that "No state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

If the 14th amendment is the basis, what persons does it not apply to? How is it limited? What are the possible unintended consequences?

For real resistance, picture an orthodox rabbi being ordered to perform a marriage between a gay Jew and a gay non-Jew.

Quite obviously, "All persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," applies to anchor babies, even babies born of two illegal aliens in a detention center awaiting deportation.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-04-30   14:09:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 33.

#34. To: nolu chan (#33)

Why would the legal logic offered for same-sex marriage not extend to polygamous marriage?

Don't know, maybe it would... I have always believed that the whole multi-spouse deal was settled in the 1800's....

Or Man-boy marriage?

Maybe because one is a minor?

For real resistance, picture an orthodox rabbi being ordered to perform a marriage between a gay Jew and a gay non-Jew.

I don't think this decision if it is rendered "forces" any member of the clergy to do anything - it would, I think compel states to issue licenses to same-sex couples and recognize same sex marriages performed in other states.

Jameson  posted on  2015-04-30 14:20:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 33.

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