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Health/Medical
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Title: Judge Rules that Really Stupid Vermont Law May Be Able to Force GMO-Labels on Food Companies
Source: Reason Magazine
URL Source: http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/28/j ... es-that-vermont-may-be-able-to
Published: Apr 28, 2015
Author: Ronald Bailey
Post Date: 2015-04-29 04:03:28 by A Pole
Keywords: GMO, food, Monsanto
Views: 26767
Comments: 115

In 2013, the idiots, uh, distinguished solons of the Vermont legislature passed a law requiring food companies to label their products containing ingredients derived from modern biotech crops. The "findings" used to justify the legislation is simply the litany of scientific disinformation that has been peddled by anti-biotechnology extremists for years now.

[...]

The food manufacturers oppose the legislation arguing, among other things, that it violates their First Amendment rights by forcing them to engage in speech. In point of fact, the anti-biotech activists are not consumer advocates at all. What they are really aiming at is to confuse consumers so that they will misunderstand and treat labels identifying products as containing ingredients from biotech crops as warning labels.

[...]

As I pointed out in my article, The Top 5 Lies About Biotech Crops, every independent scientific body that has evaluated biotech crops has found them safe for people and the environment. ... As I have already shown above, the real purpose of GMO-labels is to deceive consumers. ... Is picking and choosing between producers really what you want your government to do? ... Finally, folks seeking kosher and halal foods are already well accomodated in the market, but I suppose some folks treat organic foods as a kind of sacrament. Of course, consumers who are bamboozled by the activist disinformation campaign against biotech crops have the perfect way to avoid foods of which they disapprove: Buy anything labeled organic.

[...]

However, the fight is not over. The case will now go to trial, where, let us hope, scientific evidence not activist lies will prevail. Or better yet, as the Washington Post editorial board has suggested, why not adopt the bill introduced in the House of Representatives that would establish a voluntary labeling system and prevent states and localities from going any further to indulge the GM labeling crowd.

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#16. To: misterwhite (#12)

Peanut butter is allowed up to an average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams.

Insects can be edible.

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-29   10:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#12)

Even if the fears are groundless and can affect entire industries?

Yes. That's why we have all sorts of traffic rules and signs and stoplights. Fear of something happening.

It's why we don't let people in some states buy raw milk. Fear of something happening (even though it doesn't happen in the states where people do buy raw milk).

We do all sorts of things based on fear and perception. Cops are allowed to use force if they "fear for their safety", even when that fear isn't really reasonable.

If a substantial number of people want a label on food to give them information, then if you want to enter the stream of commerce to make money selling your product, you will conform to the regulations that the community has placed upon your product. Otherwise, you cannot make money selling it.

Simple. Sane.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   10:34:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#12)

I fear insect fragments and larvae. Should we label those?

Let's see. Canned corn can have up to 2 or more 3 mm or longer larvae, cast skins, larval or cast skin fragments. Peanut butter is allowed up to an average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams.

Plus, I want a detailed list of what's in my sausages.

If enough people feel as you do, then yes, of course we can pass regulations that require these specific disclosures if you're going to sell your food into the stream of commerce.

People care a great deal about GMO, for reasons beyond simply safe eating. They do not want the food produced at all, for fear of what is being released into the biosphere. One of the pressures on the bee populations has been the roundup-ready corn, which is turned into high fructose corn syrup, which in turn is part of the sugar water fed to bees. They eat pesticide in the sugar, and they weaken.

I don't want to eat GMO food because it wasn't designed by God for me. And I REALLY don't want to eat precisely BECAUSE manufacturers want to hide it. Because they want to hide it, I intend to use the law to force full disclosure.

Europe, led by the French, have put the kebosh on wholesale GMO planting and hormone-tainted meat in Europe. This blocks American produce. Americans scream, and the Americans can go fuck off. Want to sell meat and products in Europe? Want access to that market? Then certify it, on pain of crippling lawsuits and massive punitive damage and criminal prosecution if you lie, that your products have NO GMO in them, and your meat has NO Hormones. Otherwise, you have no right to make money entering the European stream of commerce.

Americans should have the similar choice that Europeans do. We should be able to look at our food products and know if GMO has been used, or if the meat has hormones in it. And if a company lies, we should be able to bring multi-billion dollar class action lawsuits against the companies that lie to us, redistributing their illegally gained profits - PLUS punitive damages - to ourselves AND throw their executives' asses in prison for good measure.

It's my food. I have the right to known what is in it. Since companies want to hide that, then good old democracy and the rule of law needs to jam criminal regulations with civil penalties right up their asses to force them to disclose.

For awhile, the businesses who want to conceal have been able to.

Unforunately, all sorts of allergies are EXPLODING in America (and not in Europe), and all sorts of pancreatic cancer is breaking out here (and not in France). So it's only a matter of time, because these hidden ingredients that politically connected Ag business has put in American food but hasn't been able to get into European food, has created a clear health differential between genetically similar populations in Europe and in the USA.

The tobacco industry was able to hold the line on disclosures and warnings for a long time, but eventually they were brought to heel.

And the difference between tobacco or soda pop, and things like corn and bread and milk and meat, is that the former things are luxuries, products that we always knew were bad for us, but the latter things are FOOD, and people know that Mark 1 Mod 0 God-made FOOD is safe. So if companies are tinkering with the God-crafted food and doing stuff to it, people have the right to know. And if Americans are getting a lot sicker, in weird ways, than Europeans, these hidden things in the food may well be to blame.

People have the right to know what's in their food. And food purveyors who do not want to provide that information have the right to go sell insurance, but not to sell food into the stream of commerce.

Now it is simply a matter of time until more and more and more people decide that they want to know what's in the food. It'll start in "liberal" states, and then be imposed federally. And people like you will scream and bellyache against it, and scream that the country is being lost to "socialists" or "crazies", as you lose yet another battle that you shouldn't have fought in the first place.

There are battles worth fighting. The battle to allow huge companies to HIDE what they are putting in the food is not a battle that anybody should be fighting. THEY are fighting because it's big money to them. But the rest of US should want disclosure.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   10:48:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: misterwhite (#9)

Is that a "selfie"?, LOL

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-04-29   10:58:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A Pole (#0)

The fact that GMO companies are so desperate to avoid any GMO labeling tends to make me think we should have GMO labeling.

Beyond that, I see no compelling reason at all (other than silencing anti-GMO opposition) for the courts to intervene against a lawfully passed bill in a particular state. Their state, their laws. And no compelling reason to override that just to pander to Monsanto and the Frankenfoods complex.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-29   11:15:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#6)

Do they also have a right to know if their food had been irradiated when packaged? Or microwaved before being served at a restaurant?

If the state's legislature or Congress or the FDA says so, yes.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-29   11:17:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

Europe, led by the French, have put the kebosh on wholesale GMO planting and hormone-tainted meat in Europe. This blocks American produce. Americans scream, and the Americans can go fuck off. Want to sell meat and products in Europe? Want access to that market? Then certify it, on pain of crippling lawsuits and massive punitive damage and criminal prosecution if you lie, that your products have NO GMO in them, and your meat has NO Hormones. Otherwise, you have no right to make money entering the European stream of commerce.

Conversely, I've read that all the best brie cheeses from France cannot be imported to America because USDA demands all imported cheeses be pasteurized. And a real brie cheese in France by definition is not pasteurized. So all the American yuppies who love their brie are eating a Velveeta-type brie, not the real thing.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

If we restrict brie based on food processing standards despite a long record of safety in Europe, how is it unfair for Europe to take a dismal view of Frankenfoods that have been around less than 2 decades and that constantly change in their makeup, seemingly a deliberate attempt by seed developers to obfuscate their actual content?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-29   11:23:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

"People have a right to know if their food has been genetically modified, so they can decide whether they want to buy that or not."

Given that the truth is that GMO food is safe and, according to you, there should be nothing to fear from the truth, why would labeling make any difference?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   11:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: TooConservative (#22)

"and that constantly change in their makeup, seemingly a deliberate attempt by seed developers to obfuscate their actual content?"

Farmers have been known to illegally make their own seeds from GMO crops, thereby bypassing the manufacturer.

Slightly changing the genetic makeup allows the manufacturer to catch the cheaters.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   11:55:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: TooConservative (#20)

"The fact that GMO companies are so desperate to avoid any GMO labeling tends to make me think we should have GMO labeling."

They're desperate to avoid any GMO labeling because of the ignorant and unsubstantiated fear being generated around this product.

They don't want another Alar scare.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   12:08:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

"I don't want to eat GMO food because it wasn't designed by God for me."

So you're against grafting fruit trees to get a more nutritious product? That's the original GMO.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   12:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A Pole (#16)

Peanut butter is allowed up to an average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams.
Insects can be edible.

So for a 40 ounce jar (1120 grams), the label would say "Contains 330 Insect Parts -- But They're Edible."

OK with you?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   12:51:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative (#20)

The fact that GMO companies are so desperate to avoid any GMO labeling tends to make me think we should have GMO labeling.

Yep.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   13:14:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#22)

Conversely, I've read that all the best brie cheeses from France cannot be imported to America because USDA demands all imported cheeses be pasteurized. And a real brie cheese in France by definition is not pasteurized. So all the American yuppies who love their brie are eating a Velveeta-type brie, not the real thing.

That's right.

Or rather, Europe is right: Frankefoods: bad. Unpasteurized cheese: good.

The Americans, unfortunately, have to live with both Frankenfoods AND bad cheese, because of the power of lobbies.

In short, we end up eating shit because it's profitable for Kraft and Monsanto, and they own Congress. Meanwhile people keel over from pancreatic cancer, and allergies and autism are exploding, here.

The French get to eat better beef, good cheese, good food, and get to not die of pancreatic cancer and diabetes and peanut allergies and have autistic kids.

So they win and we lose, across the board.

We're idiots for putting up with it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   13:17:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: misterwhite (#26)

So you're against grafting fruit trees to get a more nutritious product? That's the original GMO.

Nope. That's traditional. GMO is done in a lab, fiddling directly with the genes, inserting alleles. There's a fundamental difference that everybody sees. You sound like a lobbyist for Monsanto.

Traditional agriculture is not the issue. Frankenfood is the issue, and it should be fully disclosed...if we're going to allow it at all.

I like the French solution: don't LABEL it - BAN IT OUTRIGHT. That's better.

Lower yields, healthier food, more farmers, more employment. Good all around.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   13:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: misterwhite (#23)

Given that the truth is that GMO food is safe and, according to you, there should be nothing to fear from the truth, why would labeling make any difference?

The foods are not safe and not necessary. We don't need them and they should be banned outright.

Since they won't be, they should be fully disclosed, so that people know, so they won't buy the products, so the companies that produce that shit will go bankrupt, fail and stop producing it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   13:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Vicomte13 (#31)

"The foods are not safe ..."

Is that "the truth" you were referring to earlier?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   13:51:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

"GMO is done in a lab, fiddling directly with the genes"

Yep. And with the same results as grafting.

"Lower yields, healthier food, more farmers, more employment. Good all around."

Yeah, you know how we strive for those lower yields coupled with lower productivity.

Oh, you left out higher prices. Just an oversight, I'm sure.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   13:59:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: A Pole (#0)

If most Americans could pull their attention away from the likes of Bruce Jenner or their iPhones made with slave labor long enough to look around the world they might be surprised that they know less about what they stuff into their pie holes than people in Kazakhstan, for example.

Below is a full list of countries that require labeling of GMO foods (courtesy of The Center for Food Safety)


Australia
Austria
Belarus
Belgium
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
Cameroon
China
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Ecuador
El Salvador
Estonia
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Mali
Malta
Mauritius
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Tunisia
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Vietnam
http://www.justlabelit.org/right-to-know-center/labeling-around-the-world/

And a thank you to all of those who are guinea pigging this brand new tech that hasn't been tested for long term effects. Oh- and if something goes wrong one day and you start losing your guts or something, don't bother asking for help. Ok? Thanks.

Operation 40  posted on  2015-04-29   14:31:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: misterwhite (#23) (Edited)

Given that the truth is that GMO food is safe and, according to you, there should be nothing to fear from the truth, why would labeling make any difference?

Exactlty! You stole my thunder.

Let us label it.

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-29   15:09:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: misterwhite (#26)

So you're against grafting fruit trees to get a more nutritious product? That's the original GMO

A lie!

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-29   15:12:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Operation 40 (#34)

In other words, all of Europe, the entire industrialized world EXCEPT America and Canada, and most of the population of the world in general - even the hinterlands. Khazahkstan. Chad.

People in Chad have the right to know if the food they're buying has GMOs in it. But Americans (and Canadians and Mexicans - the people in our local imperial orbit) don't.

It's quite and indictment of us, really.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   15:45:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: misterwhite (#33)

Yep. And with the same results as grafting.

And other results too, that are unforseeable, and risky, and uneccessary.

Ban GMOs.

If you don't ban them outright, make their presence a label requirement.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   15:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: misterwhite (#33)

See, I'm looking at that list of countries, and I'm noticing something. In a great many of those countries, people have average life spans longer than ours. And they have less incidence of all sorts of illnesses.

There is something particularly toxic about the way we do things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-29   15:50:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: misterwhite (#27) (Edited)

So for a 40 ounce jar (1120 grams), the label would say "Contains 330 Insect Parts -- But They're Edible."

I don't care. If people want it let it be labelled.

Either way, bugs are not GMO and we inhale living beings with every breath and have trillions of them in our bodies. Just keep GMO and Monsanto away from me.

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-29   16:03:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Vicomte13 (#39)

"In a great many of those countries, people have average life spans longer than ours."

Yeah, but they're uglier.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   16:06:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Vicomte13 (#37)

In other words, all of Europe, the entire industrialized world EXCEPT America and Canada, and most of the population of the world in general - even the hinterlands. Khazahkstan. Chad.

People in Chad have the right to know if the food they're buying has GMOs in it. But Americans (and Canadians and Mexicans - the people in our local imperial orbit) don't.

It's quite and indictment of us, really.

Indeed it is. And it's happened on our watch. How?

Here's an observation from Vinny Eastwood in New Zealand:

"You've gone from being the most intelligent, literate, morally back-boned citizenry in the history of the world to the laziest, dumbest, most capitulating human trash that has ever existed"- Vinny Eastwood, New Zealand

Greed, arrogance and a bit of lazy = the decline of the American Empire. Tick Tock

Operation 40  posted on  2015-04-29   16:08:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: A Pole (#40)

"Either way, bugs are not GMO"

No they're not. I used an analogy.

Placing a label on a jar of peanut butter saying that it contains 330 insect parts -- which are not harmful -- would result in fewer peanut butter sales.

Placing a label on food saying that it has been genetically modified -- which is not harmful -- would also result in fewer sales.

See the analogy?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   16:55:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Operation 40 (#42)

Vinny Eastwood can ESAD.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   16:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: TooConservative (#20)

The fact that GMO companies are so desperate to avoid any GMO labeling...

So many fear monger groups out there... they could give Mother Theresa a bad name. Do you blame them?

Hell, fear mongering works so well, if Stone did a study of 100 random people to just view this forum a minimum of 4 hours a day for 6 months, at least 15 of the Guinea pigs would shoot a cop or bomb a government building by the end of the study.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-04-29   17:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Deckard, A Pole (#2)

Genetically modified foods, are they safe?

The question is the public's right to know.

The public has a right to know what is in the food being sold to them. It is difficult to see any purported competing right of purveyors of food to keep the contents of their product secret from the public, such that it outweighs the right of the public to know.

The public has a right to choose whether or not to put Frankenfood in their body.

Labeling of food products is a matter of the public's right to know. Considering the list of things that have been provided for years, it is difficult to see any justification for secrecy regarding whether a product contains something that does not occur in nature but which has been artificially created.

Just because one or more studies hold something is safe to eat does not justify inserting it into the food stream in a manner to make it's presence unidentifiable to the public.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-04-29   18:37:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: GrandIsland (#45)

So many fear monger groups out there... they could give Mother Theresa a bad name. Do you blame them?

People have a right to organize and use the democratic process to inflict their will on the gooberment, on Frankenfood or Big Pharma corporate entities, or on themselves.

If the only issue is accurate labeling, we already have food labeling and grading of foods by FDA and we disclose nutritional content and calories and food origin by label.

So this is nothing new in any way. It's merely the vast pushback from Monsanto and its army of lobbyists and lawyers that make this a controversy at all.

Hell, fear mongering works so well, if Stone did a study of 100 random people to just view this forum a minimum of 4 hours a day for 6 months, at least 15 of the Guinea pigs would shoot a cop or bomb a government building by the end of the study.

Bosh. Members of this forum aren't exactly spring chickens. You and redleghunter are the youngest judging by your posts. You're pushing or just past fifty, I think red is early fortyish. Average age of LF forum posters is > 70, IMO.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-29   18:52:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: nolu chan (#46)

"The public has a right to know what is in the food being sold to them."

Like 330 insect parts in a jar of Skippy peanut butter?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   18:52:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: misterwhite (#48)

Like 330 insect parts in a jar of Skippy peanut butter?

Whatever they are selling, the buying public's right to know outweighs their lust for secrecy.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-04-29   18:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: nolu chan (#49) (Edited)

"Whatever they are selling, the buying public's right to know outweighs their lust for secrecy."

By "the public" you mean those opposed to GMO food. Well, they can kiss my ass.

They give a FF about the buying public's right to know. It's their intent to force food producers to label the food in the hopes of scaring an ignorant and uninformed public away from GMO food in order to stop the practice of gene modification.

It has nothing to do with the buying public's right to know and if you believe that I've got a bridge to sell. Both they and you are hiding behind that phrase because misinformation is your only hope at stopping this practice.

You're no different than Algore.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-29   19:13:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: misterwhite (#50)

Let's just forget labeling food altogether. How does that sound? Allergies? Too bad, Mr. misterwhite doesn't care.

It has nothing to do with the buying public's right to know and if you believe that I've got a bridge to sell.

You're lugging around 2 tons of BS in a one ton sack along with that bridge. I won't be eating Monsanto's freak corn crossed with glowing eels or whatever they are peddling next. NO SALE- NO WAY.

Operation 40  posted on  2015-04-29   19:19:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: misterwhite (#44)

Vinny Eastwood can ESAD.

Truth cuts like a knife.

Any idea who's going to fix the infrastructure that has been let go so the New Kings can continue their wars? Just the other day a chunk of concrete fell off a bridge in WA and squashed some poor useless eater. It's falling apart in front of you. Keep looking towards Ukraine though- we're told that's important.

Operation 40  posted on  2015-04-29   19:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: misterwhite (#43)

"Either way, bugs are not GMO"

No they're not. I used an analogy.

Placing a label on a jar of peanut butter saying that it contains 330 insect parts -- which are not harmful -- would result in fewer peanut butter sales.

Placing a label on food saying that it has been genetically modified -- which is not harmful -- would also result in fewer sales.

See the analogy?

I do, but you missed the point.

You care what would result in fewer sales. I care what people eat. You put corporate profits before people's lives.

Do you have vested interests in this or is it simply a severe case limbaughitis and rush syndrome?

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-30   2:03:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: misterwhite (#48)

"The public has a right to know what is in the food being sold to them."

Like 330 insect parts in a jar of Skippy peanut butter?

We have a right to know what you put in our food.

Speaking about wishes as opposed to rights - I want to know if GMO is served on my plate, but I do not want to know how many remain of smaller living creatures are in it (bigger living creature is the centerpiece). I want to be warned how much arsenic is in my hotdog, but I do not want to know what body parts are in it.

A Pole  posted on  2015-04-30   2:12:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: misterwhite (#50)

By "the public" you mean those opposed to GMO food.

By the public I mean the general public. They have the right to know what is in the food offered for sale. They have a right to know if it contains pink slime, they have a right to know if it contains GMO, and they have right to be provided enough information to make an informed choice about what they choose to purchase and consume.

The public has a right to know if smoking tobacco may endanger their health. They then have the right to smoke 'em if they've got 'em.

Those opposed to GMO food have a right to know if the food offered to their purchase contains GMO. They have a right to choose whether to purchase it.

Congress has the power to pass laws requiring such labeling of food for sale to the public, and to enforce the law with criminal statutes.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-04-30   2:48:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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