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The Left's War On Christians
See other The Left's War On Christians Articles

Title: We will not obey: Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015 ... disobedience-if-supreme-court/
Published: Apr 28, 2015
Author: By Todd Starnes
Post Date: 2015-04-28 23:19:07 by out damned spot
Keywords: Christian, Supreme Court, civil disobedience
Views: 29814
Comments: 140

"We will not obey.”

That’s the blunt warning a group of prominent religious leaders is sending to the Supreme Court of the United States as they consider same-sex marriage.

“We respectfully warn the Supreme Court not to cross that line,” read a document titled, Pledge in Solidarity to Defend Marriage. “We stand united together in defense of marriage. Make no mistake about our resolve.”

“While there are many things we can endure, redefining marriage is so fundamental to the natural order and the common good that this is the line we must draw and one we cannot and will not cross,” the pledge states.

The signees are a who’s who of religious leaders including former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former U.S. Senator Rick Santorum, National Religious Broadcasters president Jerry Johnson, Pastor John Hagee, and Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and Samaritan’s Purse.

The pledge was co-drafted by Deacon Keith Fournier, a Catholic deacon, and Mat Staver, the founder of Liberty Counsel. Also involved in the document were Rick Scarborough, the president of Vision America Action and James Dobson, the founder of Family Talk Radio.

“We’re sending a warning to the Supreme Court and frankly any court that crosses the line on the issue of marriage,” Staver told me.

He said that once same-sex marriage is elevated to the level of protected status – it will transform the face of society and will result in the “beginning of the end of Western Civilization.”

“You are essentially saying that boys and girls don’t need moms and dads – that moms and dads are irrelevant,” Staver said. “Gender becomes pointless when government adopts same-sex marriage. It creates a genderless relationship out of a very gender-specific relationship. It says that it doesn’t matter and that two moms or two dads are absolutely equivalent to a mom and a dad.”

Dobson said the legalization of same-sex marriage could fracture the nation.

“The institution of marriage is fundamental and it must be defended,” he told me. “It’s the foundation for the entire culture. It’s been in existence for 5,000 years. If you weaken it or if you undermine it – the entire superstructure can come down. We see it as that important.”

And that means the possibility of Christians – people of faith – engaging in acts of civil disobedience.

“Yes, I’m talking about civil disobedience,” Staver said. “I’m talking about resistance and I’m talking about peaceful resistance against unjust laws and unjust rulings.”

That’s quite a shocking statement. So I asked Mr. Staver to clarify his remarks.

“I’m calling for people to not recognize the legitimacy of that ruling because it’s not grounded in the Rule of Law,” he told me. “They need to resist that ruling in every way possible. In a peaceful way – they need to resist it as much as Martin Luther King, Jr. resisted unjust laws in his time.”

Scarborough said the pledge was meant to be forthright and clear.

“We’re facing a real Constitutional crisis if the Supreme Court rules adversely from our perspective on same-sex marriage,” he told me. For me there’s no option. I’m going to choose to serve the Lord. And I think that thousands of other pastors will take that position and hundreds of thousands – if not millions of Christians.”

Scarborough is urging pastors across the nation to sign the pledge.

He referenced the “outrageous penalties” being assessed against people of faith simply because they don’t want to participate in a same-sex union.

An Oregon bakery is facing a $135,000 fine for refusing to make a cake for a lesbian wedding and a Washington State florist faces fines for refusing to participate in a gay wedding.

“Christians are being declared the lawbreakers when we are simply living by what we have always believed, and by a set of laws that the culture historically has agreed to,” he said. “Right now the courts are changing the playing field and declaring that what the natural eye can see and natural law reveals is not truth. ... What will we do, and how will we respond?”

Dobson said there’s no doubt that LGBT activists are targeting Christian business owners.

“For about 50 years the homosexual community has had as its goal to change the culture, to change the ideology and if necessary – to force people who don’t agree by use of the courts,” Dobson told me. “I think there’s a collision here and we can all see it and where it’s going to go is anybody’s guess – but it is serious.”

To be clear – the men and women who courageously signed this pledge did so knowing the hell storm that is about to be unleashed on them – and their families.

“We have no choice,” Staver told me. “We cannot compromise our clear biblical convictions, our religious convictions.

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#57. To: redleghunter (#26)

unobserved 'science.'

What's the "observed 'science'" regarding the alleged slavery of the Jews in Egypt?

http://www.google.com/#q=were+hebrews+really+slaves+in+egypt

www.reformjudaism.org/were-jews-slaves-egypt

Evidently, there is none.

Rutro! Was the passover just another myth atop a pyramidesque pile of eunuch-parrot droppings?

Maybe Martin Luther wasn't delirious after all...

http://www.google.com/search?q=Luther+the+Jews+and+their+lies

VxH  posted on  2015-04-30   10:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: VxH, liberator (#57)

What's the "observed 'science'" regarding the alleged slavery of the Jews in Egypt?

Hundreds of thousands of Israelites....Sorry but most the Egyptians who 'witnessed' these things perished.

Exodus 1

The link above will get you started. Good read. YHWH speaks a lot in that book and also Himself writes these things down.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   10:15:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: SOSO, Vx? (#52)

Adams never owned a slave. Was vocally against slavery all of his public life and supported gradual abolishment. (John Adams wrote, “Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States…I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in…abhorrence.")

Adams was not in the country when the Consitution was drafted. Neither was Jefferson for that matter. But Jefferson kept his slaves to the end of his life.

Oh, that's gonna leave a mark.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:24:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: redleghunter, Vx? (#58)

Exodus 1

The link above will get you started. Good read.

Yes. But...but if Jefferson didn't write Exodus 1, then how could it have happened?

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: A K A Stone (#54)

they [SC justices] make stuff up.

They do indeed. The libs rely on their personal opinions and biases -- NOT Constitution law.)

SC Justices as well as ALL judges should become elected officials with reasonable term limits. They are NOT Kings and Queens.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:28:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A K A Stone (#54)

Every supreme court judge that ruled that way should have been taken out in the back of the White House and shot. That is what the President should have done.

Nixon???
That's nutz... and unconstitutional to boot...

Only Congress can remove federal judges from office...
They have to be impeached by the House and tried in the Senate.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-04-30   10:34:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: redleghunter (#51)

SCOTUS oral arguments are weird.

My observations have been justices will ask opposing arguments to the lawyers. For example the Sue, Joe and Tom question was probably posed to the side opposing homosexual "marriage."

I remember Sotomeyer, the wise Latina, asking a leading question to the government SG reference the legality of Obamacare when that was before the SCOTUS. You had conservative pundits gushing over a lib on the court making their argument. It turned out different of course.

Good catch. Sotomeyer gave us a head-fake and deke. Roberts appears to have signaled his mind is already made up (or is THAT another head fake??) Bader-Witchburg is openly and publicly siding with Satan -- as we expect.

This is unprecedented from SCOTUS. Legal opinions and viewpoints (and lobbyists) are obviously solicited, polls are considered, and raw personal opinions complete the "scoring criteria."

VOILA! The "Living, Breathing Constitution" in action.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:40:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone (#53)

In Roe v Wade, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion.

The 14th Amendment is purposefully vague and open to interpretation, so that's what they did. Tough shit for you and me, but they didn't just "make it up."

Yes, the 14A is vague...but no so vague that infanticide can't still be construed as murder.

Why didn't the SC rule that an aborted baby was also a "privacy" issue WITHOUT "due process" as the preborn is clearly a person??

Yeah -- SCOTUS did make up sh*t. They ruled in favor of their own warped, politicized version of the "truth." WHICH STILL SANCTIONS MURDER OF THE UNBORN. Period.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:46:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: A K A Stone, A Pole, liberator, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#54)

Like I said they make stuff up.

Indeed. The US and West in general are beggars to their own demise. What made our society in the first place was recognizing there are absolutes in our world and universe. Marriage between a man and a woman is one of the human interactions which has been an absolute for all socieites since recorded history.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   10:57:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Liberator, GarySpFc, BobCeleste, A Pole, nolu chan, A K A Stone, CZ82, wmfights, *Religious History and Issues* (#61)

They are NOT Kings and Queens.

No they are not. And a lot of parish priests and bishops should be asked if the SIX...count them SIX SCOTUS justices who are Roman Catholic are getting communion.

John Roberts (Chief Justice) Roman Catholic

Antonin Scalia Roman Catholic

Anthony Kennedy Roman Catholic

Clarence Thomas Roman Catholic

Ruth Bader Ginsburg Jewish

Stephen Breyer Jewish

Samuel Alito Roman Catholic

Sonia Sotomayor Roman Catholic

Elena Kagan Jewish

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other."

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   11:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator, GarySpFc, Willie Green (#64)

Yeah -- SCOTUS did make up sh*t. They ruled in favor of their own warped, politicized version of the "truth." WHICH STILL SANCTIONS MURDER OF THE UNBORN. Period.

SCOTUS made a life and death decision in Roe vs. Wade. In effect they believed they could make medical decisions and also 'play God' by determining life in the womb is not 'valid life.'

My hope is these men repented and embraced Christ before they passed on.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   11:17:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: CZ82, redleghunter, BobCeleste, GarySpFc, Too Conservative, A K A Stone, stoner, Zesta, SOSO (#46)

Have you been keeping up with the USSC case on homo marriage??

If you haven't what do you think this little statement made by Roberts yesterday during oral arguments means...

"If Sue loves Joe and Tom loves Joe, Sue could marry him and Tom can't. Why isn't that a straightforward question of sexual discrimination"?

Your quote of Roberts -- he's preemptively signaling his obvious pro-gay argument FOR Queer Marriage. I reckon immediately after THIS decision, he'll be on another flight to another isolated "island" -- this time..it just might be into the safe waiting arms of Pope Franco at The Vatican. Roberts has had his own homo-ticket punched as he inexplicably voted for Zero's Death Care. He has been THE Trojan Horse lib chosen by Dubya since Day One.

Everybody seems to think Kennedy is gonna be the swing vote but after seeing that I'm not so sure his vote will matter...

I agree. Roberts negates Kennedy (who also seems to be in the bag of the fags. Maybe both "Catholic consciences" of Roberts and Kennedy will speak to them (I doubt it.)

With not a single Protestant on the SCOTUS (inexplicably), but 3 Jews, 6(!!) Catholics, and 3 Queers aboard, we should have expected the Republic to tank...and quickly. And it HAS.

Catholics-in-High Places, were they more about God's Law and the Protestant Founders' Constitutional intent and common sense -- and less about Man's Law -- could have prevented the mess that has become a chaotic Liberal, unprincipled America.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   11:38:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: redleghunter (#65)

What made our society in the first place was recognizing there are absolutes in our world and universe. Marriage between a man and a woman is one of the human interactions which has been an absolute for all societies since recorded history.

Cha-Ching.

The detractors and moral relativists are no respecters of absolutes. OR recorded historical precedence.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   11:41:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Liberator (#69)

The detractors and moral relativists are no respecters of absolutes. OR recorded historical precedence.

The obvious argument in response will be "but the Constitution is our absolute and the 14th amendment says..." What they fail at is the Constitution cannot be an absolute unless it is based on a higher absolute.

There is no law without a Law Giver.

The Constitution points to the Reformation; the Reformation to the Bible; The Bible points to.....God.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   11:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: redleghunter, GarySpFc, BobCeleste, A Pole, nolu chan, A K A Stone, CZ82, TooConservative, wmfights (#66)

And a lot of parish priests and bishops should be asked if the SIX...count them SIX SCOTUS justices who are Roman Catholic are getting communion.

John Roberts (Chief Justice) Roman Catholic

Antonin Scalia Roman Catholic

Anthony Kennedy Roman Catholic

Clarence Thomas Roman Catholic

Ruth Bader Ginsburg Jewish

Stephen Breyer Jewish

Samuel Alito Roman Catholic

Sonia Sotomayor Roman Catholic

Elena Kagan Jewish

As long as the tip cup on the piano gets tagged with green, priests and bishops will give the wafer to ANY one -- including pro-abortionist celebs and politicians.

How about that demo break-down of SCOTUS? What a disgrace.

Protestant Supreme Court Justices: : NONE

WHAT "conspiracy"?? I'm sure it is just a coincidental oversight that despite America's population identified as 37%, that we have not a single Protestant Supreme Court Justice out of 11

This is a travesty. And America is DYING as a result.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   11:57:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: redleghunter, tpaine (#70)

The obvious argument in response will be "but the Constitution is our absolute and the 14th amendment says..."

What they fail at is the Constitution cannot be an absolute unless it is based on a higher absolute.

There is no law without a Law Giver. (The Constitution ---> Reformation; the Reformation ---> Bible; The Bible ---> God.)

Amen!

P.S. -- The 14A should be called the Jello-Amendment of the Constitution. It has become the Left's most dependable in-absolute, unstable, malleable monument to moral relativism the Constitution has ever seen, rendering the entire document....a fraud. The 14A has been the loop hole they've fantasized about: a subversive Tool for the Left.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   12:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: redleghunter (#67)

The notion that the Christians are going to "draw the line" and "resort to civil disobedience" HERE, over gay marriage, is absurd.

The line should have been drawn at killing babies. It should STILL be drawn at killing babies. Killing babies is a much worse outrage than gay marriage. Nobody gets killed in a gay marriage.

But nope. No massive civil disobedience over murder.

Given that, the notion that Christians are going to "stand up" and "disobey" is hooey. They will voice their dissent, and they will continue to pay taxes and do all the other things they're told. They'll vote Republican too, even though the Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans.

You can bet on it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-30   13:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Liberator, CZ82, redleghunter, BobCeleste, GarySpFc, Too Conservative, A K A Stone, stoner, Zesta, (#68)

Roberts negates Kennedy (who also seems to be in the bag of the fags. Maybe both "Catholic consciences" of Roberts and Kennedy will speak to them (I doubt it.)

Not when the Pope asks who is he to judge.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-04-30   13:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Liberator, redleghunter, y'all (#72)

redleghunter (#65) ---

What made our society in the first place was recognizing there are absolutes in our world and universe. Marriage between a man and a woman is one of the human interactions which has been an absolute for all societies since recorded history.

I agree, and our governments in the USA should have NOTHING to do with such religious practices. Marriage should not be taxed, or be given tax breaks. -- The queers want govt sanctions. Deny them.

Cha-Ching. - The detractors and moral relativists are no respecters of absolutes. OR recorded historical precedence. ---- Liberator

The obvious argument in response will be "but the Constitution is our absolute and the 14th amendment says..." What they fail at is the Constitution cannot be an absolute unless it is based on a higher absolute. --- There is no law without a Law Giver. --- The Constitution points to the Reformation; the Reformation to the Bible; The Bible points to.....God. ---- redleghunter

Liberator ---- Amen!

PS. -- The 14A should be called the Jello-Amendment of the Constitution. It has become the Left's most dependable in-absolute, unstable, malleable monument to moral relativism the Constitution has ever seen, rendering the entire document....a fraud. The 14A has been the loop hole they've fantasized about: a subversive Tool for the Left.

Yep, the left abuses the 14th, and virtually every other aspect of our constitution in their effort to replace our republic with a socialist state..

But we constitutionalists can also use it to prevent our governments from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

tpaine  posted on  2015-04-30   13:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Vicomte13 (#73)

The notion that the Christians are going to "draw the line" and "resort to civil disobedience" HERE, over gay marriage, is absurd.

The line should have been drawn at killing babies. It should STILL be drawn at killing babies. Killing babies is a much worse outrage than gay marriage. Nobody gets killed in a gay marriage.

But nope. No massive civil disobedience over murder.

Given that, the notion that Christians are going to "stand up" and "disobey" is hooey. They will voice their dissent, and they will continue to pay taxes and do all the other things they're told. They'll vote Republican too, even though the Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans.

You can bet on it.

Not opposing Roe v Wade was the last generations failure to act. This generation has another such case before SCOTUS.

Plus, there are many Right to Life warriors in our churches that spend tireless hours standing in at clinics, funding their own pregnancy clinics and paying for ultrasounds for fence sitters.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   13:59:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: redleghunter (#67)

" My hope is these men repented and embraced Christ before they passed on. "

Would be better for them to repent NOW, so they might undo some of the damage they have done.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-04-30   13:59:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: redleghunter (#67)

In effect they believed they could make medical decisions and also 'play God' by determining life in the womb is not 'valid life.'

No the SCOTUS ruled that THAT is a private moral/medical decision made by a woman & her doctor.

Frankly, I have know idea how you expect to overturn Roe v. Wade if you don't even understand what the SCOTUS did.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-04-30   14:04:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Willie Green, redleghunter, All (#78)

Frankly, I have know idea how you expect to overturn Roe v. Wade if you don't even understand what the SCOTUS did.

What SCOTUS did was to codify that a fetus is not a person per the 14th Amendment. Until and unless that is changed RvW will stand.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-04-30   14:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: redleghunter (#76)

Not opposing Roe v Wade was the last generations failure to act. This generation has another such case before SCOTUS.

I'm sorry. No. Two million babies are being killed every year RIGHT NOW.

It's THIS generation's Holocaust.

Now we understand why the Germans didn't fight Hitler. For exactly the same reason that we don't fight our own government.

2 million a year for 3 years is 6 million, same as the death toll of Jews in the Nazi Holocaust.

The United States of America, today, is as murderous as Nazi Germany with Auschwitz. Think about that.

Gay marriage is belly button lint compared to that.

Christians have done what Jesus said: pay their taxes to Caesar, even though he is bad. They haven't rebelled over the mass murder of babies, just as they didn't rebel over the Holocaust, and didn't rebel over slavery.

They're not going to rebel over gay marriage either - it's chump change. I do not care who has sex with whom, or how. I DO care about the murdering of babies. An abortion mill is Auschwitz. And we are taxpaying Germans.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-30   14:28:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: redleghunter (#76)

Plus, there are many Right to Life warriors in our churches that spend tireless hours standing in at clinics, funding their own pregnancy clinics and paying for ultrasounds for fence sitters.

Yes, that is true. But the pastors in the article are saying that gay marriage will cause Christians to perform law-breaking acts of civil disobedience, and I am throwing the bullshit flag. No, it won't.

Christians don't perform civil disobedience over abortion, not in any numbers. They're not going to do so in any numbers over gay marriage either.

It's an idle threat, and the bluff is going to be called.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-30   14:30:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Vicomte13 (#81)

Yes, that is true. But the pastors in the article are saying that gay marriage will cause Christians to perform law-breaking acts of civil disobedience, and I am throwing the bullshit flag. No, it won't.

The cynical perspective of this "threat" by the mega-thumpers is that they're expecting a tsunami of "offerings" to be generated between now and decision time....

"We're gonna make you scream, and make you shout, we're gonna turn them pockets inside-out!" - The Right Reverend Deuteronomy Skaggs

"we are tartets from evil doers!!!" [ and ] U looked up birfer on the dcitionary. It isn't a movie.

Jameson  posted on  2015-04-30   14:41:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Stoner (#77)

Would be better for them to repent NOW, so they might undo some of the damage they have done.

I think all the Roe v Wade justices are now dead.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   15:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Willie Green (#78)

No the SCOTUS ruled that THAT is a private moral/medical decision made by a woman & her doctor.

Which WAS a medical and moral (lack of) decision by the court. They played 'God' by ruling on such. No, they mandated it. Until then states could decide. Instead SCOTUS made murdering a baby in the womb standard across the USA.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   15:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

I'm sorry. No. Two million babies are being killed every year RIGHT NOW.

It's THIS generation's Holocaust.

Now we understand why the Germans didn't fight Hitler. For exactly the same reason that we don't fight our own government.

2 million a year for 3 years is 6 million, same as the death toll of Jews in the Nazi Holocaust.

The United States of America, today, is as murderous as Nazi Germany with Auschwitz. Think about that.

Gay marriage is belly button lint compared to that.

Christians have done what Jesus said: pay their taxes to Caesar, even though he is bad. They haven't rebelled over the mass murder of babies, just as they didn't rebel over the Holocaust, and didn't rebel over slavery.

They're not going to rebel over gay marriage either - it's chump change. I do not care who has sex with whom, or how. I DO care about the murdering of babies. An abortion mill is Auschwitz. And we are taxpaying Germans.

I do not disagree with you. I do know murder of the innocent baby in the womb is not even close to sodomite activity.

My point, which probably was clear as mud, was the homo marriage deal is here and now and we need to oppose it. Not be like Christians in the 70s who barely raised a peep. Probably because they never thought the court would impose such insanity and evil---making baby murder 'legal.' We can't be the same again.

So yes the #ONE issue for Christians is Life and fighting the evils of abortion. I agree.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   15:16:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Vicomte13, liberator (#81)

Yes, that is true. But the pastors in the article are saying that gay marriage will cause Christians to perform law-breaking acts of civil disobedience, and I am throwing the bullshit flag. No, it won't.

I think they mean that Christians won't support gay events and clergy won't cave to perform ceremonies. I think that is the deal on civil disobedience.

I'll tell you where this civil disobedience can start...By Christian churches refusing fellowship, communion, and other church ordinances or sacraments to self-proclaimed, known and proud pro-abortion and pro-sodomite 'marriage' church members. Toss them out and refuse fellowship...first come one on one, then with two or three witnesses, then the church. After that if they refuse they are to be tossed. Let's start there.

Pastors and clergy have FAILED on that for over 30 years now. Excommunicate the entire Kennedy clan and see what happens. But no, they get Christian burials.

"The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.” (Psalm 121:7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   15:25:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: SOSOCZ82, redleghunter, BobCeleste, GarySpFc, Too Conservative, A K A Stone, stoner, Zesta, (#74)

Not when the Pope asks who is he to judge.

Lol...

The Blind leading the Blind IS definitely a problem there.

Based on this Pope's strong, unwavering, moral leadership (OH WAIT), the odds that the crucial Roman Catholic SC justices vote pro-family should remain at.....0001%

(somebody should check whether Roberts' air itinerary includes Malta again.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   16:31:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: tpaine (#75)

Yep, the left abuses the 14th, and virtually every other aspect of our constitution in their effort to replace our republic with a socialist state..

But we constitutionalists can also use it [the 14A] to prevent our governments from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

Should, but will we? How do you suppose our side can use the 14A to take back the initiative or at least wall off its vulnerabilities? We're getting killed. The .g0v has combined forces with media and liberal business.

ITMT, the Left has taken the offensive and driven a tank division thru the gaping holes in 14A. As a result, it appears Constitution has been severely compromised -- IMO, close to fatally. Conservatives' "life, liberty and property" -- as well as "the pursuit of happiness" -- are already one-sided casualties, despite the Left's non-stop rhetoric.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   16:42:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: tpaine (#75) (Edited)

Our governments in the USA should have NOTHING to do with such religious practices. Marriage should not be taxed, or be given tax breaks. -- The queers want govt sanctions. Deny them.

Sadly, that seems to be the only card left in the deck to play...

Be that as it may, the language becomes affected. 5,000 years of the word "Marriage" must then be expunged in the semantic context of a man & wife.

In 1972 "queer" was still considered a mental illness. I think WE are mentally ill for allowing this day to come without stopping it dead in its tracks 20 years ago (oh wait -- that's what DOMA was all about! Then why is it suddenly considered "unconstitutional"?? Answer: The 14A. How was abortion legalized? 14A.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   16:48:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter, SOSO (#73)

The notion that the Christians are going to "draw the line" and "resort to civil disobedience" HERE, over gay marriage, is absurd.

The line should have been drawn at killing babies. It should STILL be drawn at killing babies. Killing babies is a much worse outrage than gay marriage. Nobody gets killed in a gay marriage.

But nope. No massive civil disobedience over murder.

Good points.

Given that, the notion that Christians are going to "stand up" and "disobey" is hooey. They will voice their dissent, and they will continue to pay taxes and do all the other things they're told. They'll vote Republican too, even though the Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans. You can bet on it.

The extent of gubmint coercion, extortion, and blackmail is going to dictate the degree of dissent and disobedience...and perhaps other more drastic steps.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   16:53:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Stoner, redleghunter (#77)

(" My hope is these men repented and embraced Christ before they passed on. ")

Would be better for them to repent NOW, so they might undo some of the damage they have done.

They possibly repented...BUT the damage is done, and the curse passed on to us.

We are involved in a brand new spiritual battle with different personnel. This time, the other side has the numbers, the tactical positions, the weaponry, the media, and the courts....

WE have God :-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   16:57:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Willie Green, redleghunter, Vicomte13 (#78)

No the SCOTUS ruled that THAT is a private moral/medical decision made by a woman & her doctor.

"That" (aka "abortion") is the cold-blooded murder of pre-born babies -- even "IN PRIVATE" -- was not ever "medical" decision (other than purely a life/death situation); It is...state-sanction execution of the most innocent of life.

Frankly, I have know idea how you expect to overturn Roe v. Wade if you don't even understand what the SCOTUS did.

It's clearly understood was SCOTUS did; They sanctioned infanticide and denied life was..."LIFE"! On the basis of the same 14A, a preborn person living in a womb has rights....from which THEY are deprived.

Perhaps the fetus or preborn needs to be named WHILE STILL IN THE WOMB.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:09:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: SOSO, Willie Green, redleghunter, Vicomt313 (#79)

What SCOTUS did was to codify that a fetus is not a person per the 14th Amendment. Until and unless that is changed RvW will stand.

Yup. Simply put.

Since when are SCOTUS medical experts? And btw -- which "medical experts" frauds testified that living, breathing fetuses are NOT "life"??

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:12:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

They're not going to rebel over gay marriage either - it's chump change. I do not care who has sex with whom, or how.

Will you rebel at the point "marriage" between beast and man or women are sanctioned by gubmint? Brothers and sisters? Fathers and daughters? 5 year olds and 85 year olds?

There ARE other worthy battles. And no, Gay marriage" is NOT about "sex"; It's about the state sanction of perversion.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

" I DO care about the murdering of babies. An abortion mill is Auschwitz. And we are taxpaying Germans. "

I agree wholeheartedly!!

What, if anything, do you think God thinks we should do about it?

Regards, Stoner

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-04-30   17:23:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, SOSO (#86)

I'll tell you where this civil disobedience can start...

By Christian churches refusing fellowship, communion, and other church ordinances or sacraments to self-proclaimed, known and proud pro-abortion and pro-sodomite 'marriage' church members. Toss them out and refuse fellowship...first come one on one, then with two or three witnesses, then the church. After that if they refuse they are to be tossed. Let's start there.

Pastors and clergy have FAILED on that for over 30 years now. Excommunicate the entire Kennedy clan and see what happens. But no, they get Christian burials.

HEAR HEAR!

Now ALL THAT would definitely shake things up. Long overdue. Including further persecution (and maybe even lawsuits) from Kennedy and Pelosi-types.

ANY church that compromises on Biblical tenets by sanctioning either abortion OR homosexuality within its ranks must be excommunicated from that body of Christ. His Church can not subject its fellowship to this kind of blatant unrepentant hypocrisy. the AA and quotas.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:27:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

The United States of America, today, is as murderous as Nazi Germany with Auschwitz. Think about that.

Thought about it.

Schindler /= Hitler.

In America we have one political party for which baby-murder is supported 95%.

You have the other party for which baby-murder is opposed opposed 95%.

Conflating the two criminal "Americas" and indicting ALL doesn't hold water in this case. But I understand your point...and frustration.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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