Alternative Energies
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Title: Tesla wants to power your home with a battery
Source:
CNN via Slashdot
URL Source: http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/22/technology/tesla-home-battery/
Published: Apr 25, 2015
Author: David Goldman
Post Date: 2015-04-25 09:03:01 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 10273
Comments: 46
In a letter sent to investors and analysts on Tuesday, the electric car company said it will announce a "home battery" and a "very large utility scale battery." Similar products already exist on the market, but Tesla said it will explain why its batteries are better than competitors' solutions at the event. CEO Elon Musk thinks rivals' batteries "suck," according to the note from Jeff Evanson, Tesla's investor relations director. Tesla (TSLA) shares rose more than 5% Wednesday on the news. Home batteries power up overnight, when energy companies typically charge less for electricity. Then, they can be turned on during the day to power a home. Though home batteries cost thousands of dollars, many utility companies will offer rebates. Musk announced the event late last month on Twitter, only hinting then that the new product is not a new electric car. The event will be held at Tesla's Hawthorne, California, Design Studio on April 30 at 8 p.m. PT. Tesla has talked about releasing a home battery storage product for about a year, and Musk announced on a conference call with analysts in February that Tesla would unveil a home battery "fairly soon." At a battery conference last year, Tesla's Stationary Energy Storage Director Arch Padmanabhan showed off some of the company's early plans, including a 10 kilo-Watt hour residential battery and a 400 kWh commercial/utility battery for large buildings. In a pilot project, Tesla has already begun offering home batteries to SolarCity (SCTY) customers, a solar power company for which Musk serves as chairman. There are 330 U.S. households currently running on Tesla's batteries, the majority of which are in California, according to company analyst Trip Chowdhry. Those batteries start at about $13,000, though California's Pacific Gas and Electric Co. (PCG) offers customers a 50% rebate. Tesla's batteries are three-feet high by 2.5-feet wide, and they need to be installed at least a foot and a half off the ground. They can be controlled with a Web app and a smartphone app. It's unclear if the batteries that Tesla plans on announcing next week are the same as the ones in the pilot program or in the presentation made at the battery conference last year. Poster Comment: As seen at Slashdot: Tesla To Announce Battery-Based Energy Storage For Homes Tesla will introduce a battery for your home during its highly anticipated April 30 event. 
(2 images) Okian Warrior writes: Billionaire Elon Musk will announce next week that Tesla will begin offering battery-based energy storage for residential and commercial customers. The batteries power up overnight when energy companies typically charge less for electricity, then are used during the day to power a home. In a pilot project, Tesla has already begun offering home batteries to SolarCity (SCTY) customers, a solar power company for which Musk serves as chairman. Currently 330 U.S. households are running on Tesla's batteries in California. The batteries start at about $13,000, though California's Pacific Gas and Electric Co. (PCG) offers customers a 50% rebate. The batteries are three-feet high by 2.5-feet wide, and need to be installed at least a foot and a half off the ground. They can be controlled with a Web app and a smartphone app.
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#1. To: TooConservative (#0)
Something else for hackers to have fun with, burn someones house to the ground when they least expect it.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Always look on the bright side, eh? Musk's Tesla cars have firmware and can be upgraded. They had, for instance, a recent upgrade to the software which extends battery life by propelling the car from only one wheel when cruising at highway speeds instead of wasting electricity driving multiple motors. Slashdot:
LOL... Well yea, I'm not very PC as you know. LOL...
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Batteries leak charge, no matter the technology. They are notorious for break down if overcharged or not charged at all. They have limited longevity and are subject to limited temperature ranges. I am not impressed with Tesla's solution for home use at all.
So do high-power transmission lines. That's not an argument to get rid of them. Less true than it once was. I think this is a positive move for a number of reasons. First, because you have no feasible local storage option, we have forced consumers to subsidize solar/wind massively and buy all their electricity at a high rate, even if it is dirty power or if it is generated when/where it isn't needed. So this is a way you could take away that subsidy and make these home solar/wind people consume their own electricity instead of burdening the grid (and their non-solar/non-wind neighbors) with the cost of buying their pricey electricity. There is a new aluminum battery tech that is coming now from Stanford. Previously, aluminum batteries were unstable and couldn't recharge more than a 100 times. The new Stanford batteries can hold 2V per cell, can recharge 9,000 full cycles (24 years at full charge/discharge daily), recharge much faster and completely than other battery technologies, does not produce hazardous waste when being manufactured and can be safely recycled (unlike deadly lithuium batteries) and are fireproof (won't blow up if you drill holes in the battery while fully charged. About the only downside to these batteries is they have to be 3-4 times as big as a conventional battery. So they won't work well in electric cars but they would do fine for home/industrial storage. Instead of Tesla's small battery unit, you would have one the size of a refrigerator. So this Tesla setup is a way to start a transition to a new generation of cheap safe aluminum batteries and a way to move away from public subsidy of wind/solar. Tesla's solution looks mediocre until you start comparing it to many other similar units made by lesser manufacturers who lack Musk's corporate and industrial connections and his deep finance backing, necessary to make a new technology breakthrough in consumer mindshare.
The battery is just one element of a "home battery solution." In order to charge the battery you need a DC source which infers a bridge rectifier (AC to DC); you need a regulator to ensure a proper charging rate to the battery cells. Once charged, you need a DC to AC converter (an inverter) in order to power the home and you require a sensing mechanism to switch over the batteries from grid power. Everything about this solution is expensive. It is not for the common man.
There are many places that still can't get wired from power lines because they are so remote and so few customers live there. This could be a better solution. In addition, when aluminum batteries come along, these things would be the size of a refrigerator but would cost more in the $4,000 range. And they would last 25 years or more. We are in a time of tech transition. Tech will appear and disappear as we move on from the analog era.
Tesla's "solution" is an albatross destined to the scrapheap. It is not an efficient approach solving a problem of electrical power: it is a simple AC to DC and DC to AC electrical conversion system utilizing a high efficiency battery. It is not a true conversion power solution as in: solar-voltaic conversion.
It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be better than existing solutions. The fact it is coming from a major manufacturer is a big plus in terms of installation and service. If you're simply saying it isn't a perfect solution, then fine, I don't disagree. But that isn't really the point.
In a few years when Tesla's warranty costs add up to more than any profit. Let us review our discussion on this thread.
I would give that more weight were it not for the fact that Tesla has had considerable success with its car battery technology for over five years now. Tesla has a certain track record for quality that many other competitors lack.
Why isn't their focus on the the technologies pioneered Have the Tesla folks been 'bought off' (or threatened) by the Or maybe the PTB think that they can just 'co-opt' the Tesla EDIT: My opinion is that the 'Goof-ball mad scientist' was onto something. And WHY did the government, the day after he died - SEIZE his lab and whatnot? Just to make SURE that the 'madman' wasn't 'onto' anything? Eh?
Automobiles run on DC power; batteries are an excellent source of power even given the limitations of any technology about batteries. Homes run on AC power; the successful leap from automobile power to home power is an imaginary one.
Do they HAVE to?
Not at all.
Do they HAVE to? Not at all. Ture, they can run on pig farts as well.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
No if the are adequately and consistently maintained - which most home owners will not likely do.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
EVERYTHING can run on pig farts - especially politicians.
Maintenance is only one aspect to the issue and it is a small issue. The larger characteristics that increase longevity about battery life is charge rate, temperature and humidity; essentially, like all products, reliability and performance is designed into a product, it is not about maintenance as a well designed product minimizes or eliminates maintenance considerations altogether. The again, the cost is going to skyrocket. Nope, the technology by Tesla is a mere toy for a privileged class of potential buyers.
Chuck_Wagon: Do they HAVE to? Again, the answer is no. But why do you want to see automobiles run on AC electrical power as an alternative electrical method?
This is all part of the maintenance of both equipment and installation environment. "like all products, reliability and performance is designed into a product, it is not about maintenance as a well designed product minimizes or eliminates maintenance considerations altogether." Agreed. I am not commenting on this aspect of Telsa's product as I have no idea how well designed, engineered and manufactured the product may be. In general though, there are very well designed products that require high maintenance to keep up their performance level. Given my drothers I would much prefer a well engineered product that requires a minimal amount of maintenance for consistent performance and longevity. The state of the art with heavy duty batteries, even in commercial applications, isn't quite there yet.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I thought politicians are pig farts.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Of course, one downside is that liberals with hybrids like to smell their own farts.
From the article: .. and they need to be installed at least a foot and a half off the ground. There are electrical leakage reasons for this constraint. This same constraint infers all all six planes of the battery enclosure. There shall be a min-max temperature and rel humidity range, too. In some homes such as California (where most current installations are located) this Tesla technology is useless. It can not be guaranteed.
Motors cannot run on AC power? Like my air conditioner,
Why are you apparently so opposed to the theoretical concept?
If Tesla the man were still alive and making this claim,I'd be hopping up and down right now as I was trying to buy stock. It's tempting to say he was brilliant,but brilliant really isn't a strong enough word to describe him. He was maybe one of the most intelligent men to have ever lived since the dawn of mankind. I'm sure the scientists that work for the company that bears his name are also very intelligent,but they ain't in his league. Neither is anyone else.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
As far as I am concerned, use any power source you want. Every power source has their unique issues, however and there is no panacea. The idea is to use power efficiently. Tesla's technology is not efficient at all. For this thread, using a battery to store AC charge because the power companies cost less for consumable energy at night is a silly argument; the power companies can change their rates for any reason at any time irrespective of PUC rulings.
It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be better than existing solutions. True. Nothing ever designed comes off the drawing boards as a perfect design from scratch. Everything always starts with a "Hot DAMN! I think we got something here that works!",and evolves with perfection as the ultimate goal.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Not all of them. I know of homes that run entirely on battery power.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And may end up like an Edsel or even an eight track player.
Well this certainly appears true for the design of Adam and Eve, except for the evolution towards perfection part.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
They are inefficient and costly because of the wiring for electrical interconnections. Besides, most home appliances run on AC power; that means further conversion, such as an inverter (DC to AC).
The man's technology - or the current company's technology?
The article is about "Tesla" the company. Don't confuse facts with fiction.
There was nothing wrong with Edsel's other than their awkward styling. Mechanically they were Fords and Mercury's,and Fords and Mercs were selling like hot cakes.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
True,but in some places battery power is the only option.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
So Tesla - the man's work - was worthless craziness? Eh?
Where?
Kinda like a mythological "Houdini."
How long will it take to save $6,500? *(EDIT: Assuming you live in CA and qualify for the rebate- and if you don't - how long to save $13,000?) How long before these batteries need replacement? Just what the earth needs, millions and millions of spent batteries. How much will a replacement battery cost? There goes your "savings". This is just another Elon "Enron" Musk Scam, like his "battery swap" stations who's purpose was only to take advantage of the CA EV rebates. And subsidizing a rich mans $100,000 car is a brilliant use of tax money, isn't it. Musk's batteries are already obsolete, both in his toy cars and for houses, only Musk either doesn't know (because he's not as smart as everyone thinks) or thinks he can scam some more rebates before everyone else finds out. Japan Promotes Home Fuel Cell on Path to Hydrogen Society Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Japan is working on doing for the hydrogen fuel cell what it accomplished with computer chips and cars in the last century, slashing costs to make them more appealing to consumers. As fuel-cell technology finds its way into factories and commercial buildings, Japanese manufacturers including Panasonic Corp. are working to make them small and cheap enough for the home. The country has set a goal of installing them in 5.3 million homes by 2030, about 10 percent of all households... One day this Musk character will be seen for the Con Artist he really is.
So the solar wind (Sun) - which encompasses the entire Earth
I am looking into DI-lithium crystals, myself.
Of course it is. But not with leaky batteries that always die and need replacement. Here's the founder of Earth Day Denis Hayes- a Solar Pioneer- to explain it Earth Day organizer touts hydrogen fuel cells ...Sunlight is, by far, the most abundant energy source on earth. But how do you store surplus electricity to use when you need it? Possibilities include batteries, ultracapacitors, and flywheels, all of which have important uses. One of the most attractive options is to use the sun’s energy to make hydrogen; store the hydrogen until it’s needed; then put it into a fuel cell to make electricity... http://njtoday.net/2015/04/21/earth-day-organizer-touts-hydrogen-fuel-cells/
Oh hell - I only need to go to ShopRite - not the Andromeda galaxy!
On small islands. I believe a lot of lighthouses used to be battery powered,also.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
They can be controlled with a Web app and a smartphone app.
#2. To: CZ82 (#1)
Something else for hackers to have fun with, burn someones house to the ground when they least expect it.
Tesla Motors has announced an upgrade for their Roadster vehicles that boosts the range from about 240 miles to almost 400. In addition to the battery improvements made since the Roadster launched in 2008, Tesla has a kit to retrofit the body to reduce its drag coefficient from 0.36 to 0.31. They also have new tires, which improve the rolling resistance coefficient by about 20%. They say, "Combining all of these improvements we can achieve a predicted 40-50% improvement on range between the original Roadster and Roadster 3.0. There is a set of speeds and driving conditions where we can confidently drive the Roadster 3.0 over 400 miles. We will be demonstrating this in the real world during a non-stop drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles in the early weeks of 2015." Tesla stopped producing the Roadster in 2012.
#3. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, Liberator (#2)
Always look on the bright side, eh?
#4. To: TooConservative (#0)
#5. To: buckeroo (#4)
(Edited)
Batteries leak charge, no matter the technology.
They are notorious for break down if overcharged or not charged at all.
I am not impressed with Tesla's solution for home use at all.
I am not impressed with Tesla's solution for home use at all.
#6. To: TooConservative (#5)
Tesla's solution looks mediocre until you start comparing it to many other similar units made by lesser manufacturers who lack Musk's corporate and industrial connections and his deep finance backing, necessary to make a new technology breakthrough in consumer mindshare.
#7. To: buckeroo (#6)
Everything about this solution is expensive. It is not for the common man.
#8. To: TooConservative (#7)
Tech will appear and disappear as we move on from the analog era.
#9. To: buckeroo (#8)
It is not a true conversion power solution as in: solar-voltaic conversion.
#10. To: TooConservative (#9)
#11. To: buckeroo (#10)
In a few years when Tesla's warranty costs add up to more than any profit. Let us review our discussion on this thread.
#12. To: buckeroo (#4)
(Edited)
I am not impressed with Tesla's solution for home use at all.
(albiet abortively) by Tesla the man?
power company 'powers that be'?
That is more than just 'possible' IMO.
name - and thereby squash the technologies by producing
a few goofy (and expensive) electric vehicles, and other
non-optimal products, under that name? Eh?
And probably more than just one thing too...
#13. To: TooConservative (#11)
#14. To: buckeroo (#13)
Automobiles run on DC power...
#15. To: Chuck_Wagon (#14)
#16. To: buckeroo, Chuck_Wagon (#15)
Automobiles run on DC power...
#17. To: buckeroo, TooConservative (#4)
Batteries leak charge, no matter the technology. They are notorious for break down if overcharged or not charged at all. They have limited longevity and are subject to limited temperature ranges.
#18. To: SOSO (#16)
...they can run on pig farts as well...
#19. To: SOSO (#17)
No if the are adequately and consistently maintained - which most home owners will not likely do.
#20. To: Chuck_Wagon (#14)
buckeroo: Automobiles run on DC power...
#21. To: buckeroo (#19)
Maintenance is only one aspect to the issue and it is a small issue. The larger characteristics that increase longevity about battery life is charge rate, temperature and humidity; essentially,
#22. To: Chuck_Wagon (#18)
EVERYTHING can run on pig farts - especially politicians.
#23. To: buckeroo, SOSO (#20)
#24. To: SOSO (#21)
This is all part of the maintenance of both equipment and installation environment.
#25. To: buckeroo (#20)
Again, the answer is no.
or clothes dryer? Please educate me.
#26. To: buckeroo (#20)
But why do you want to see automobiles run on AC
electrical power as an alternative electrical method?
#27. To: TooConservative, *Science and technology* (#0)
#28. To: Chuck_Wagon (#25)
#29. To: TooConservative, buckeroo (#9)
It is not a true conversion power solution as in: solar-voltaic conversion.
#30. To: buckeroo (#13)
Homes run on AC power;
#31. To: sneakypete (#29)
#32. To: sneakypete, TooConservative, buckeroo (#29)
Nothing ever designed comes off the drawing boards as a perfect design from scratch. Everything always starts with a "Hot DAMN! I think we got something here that works!",and evolves with perfection as the ultimate goal.
#33. To: sneakypete (#30)
#34. To: buckeroo (#28)
Tesla's technology is not efficient at all.
If you mean 'company' - then I agree with you.
I've seen nothing in the company's technology to write
home about. But I haven't been paying much attention
to high-priced electric sports cars either...
#35. To: Chuck_Wagon (#34)
#36. To: buckeroo (#31)
And may end up like an Edsel or even an eight track player.
#37. To: buckeroo (#33)
They are inefficient and costly because of the wiring for electrical interconnections.
#38. To: buckeroo (#35)
Don't confuse facts with fiction.
#39. To: sneakypete (#37)
#40. To: Chuck_Wagon (#38)
So Tesla - the man's work - was worthless craziness? Eh?
#41. To: all (#0)
(Edited)
The batteries start at about $13,000, though California's Pacific Gas and Electric Co. (PCG) offers customers a 50% rebate.
Toho Gas units for an “ene-farm” household fuel cell system sit outside a smart home developed by Toyota in Toyota City, Japan, on Oct. 17, 2014.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/japan-promotes-home-fuel-cell-on-path-to-hydrogen-society
#42. To: buckeroo (#40)
...mythological...
(even at night) is not something worth even looking
into as a harness-able source of power? Okey dokey.
#43. To: Chuck_Wagon (#42)
#44. To: Chuck_Wagon (#42)
April 21, 2015
#45. To: buckeroo (#43)
#46. To: buckeroo (#39)
Where?
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