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Title: The American Dream is a myth, says Nobel-prize winner
Source:
CNN/Money
URL Source: http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/22/new ... onomy/stiglitz-american-dream/
Published: Apr 24, 2015
Author: Tami Luhby
Post Date: 2015-04-24 10:32:47 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 8756
Comments: 41
It has become increasingly difficult for Americans to climb the economic ladder, says Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel-prize winning economist. The U.S. has one of the highest levels of income inequality among its peers and is among the worst in offering equal opportunities for advancement, said Stiglitz, who spoke Tuesday in New York City. Whether an American gets ahead is also more dependent on the income and education of their parents, he said. "The American Dream is a myth," said Stiglitz. A left-leaning authority on income inequality who teaches at Columbia University, Stiglitz is on a publicity tour for his new book, The Great Divide, which is a compilation of his articles on unequal societies for the New York Times, Vanity Fair and other publications. His timing couldn't be better. Income inequality and economic mobility have already emerged as hot topics for the 2016 presidential election, with candidates on both sides of the aisle offering their prescriptions for solving the growing income gap. Stiglitz is one of several economists who has spoken with Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton on these issues. Stiglitz argued that income inequality in America is not just the result of market forces, but also politics and policies put in place by lawmakers and companies, particularly after Ronald Reagan's election in 1980. He noted that the post-World War II era was prosperous for both the American economy and its workers. But since then wages have stagnated, with median income falling to where it was 40 years ago. Meanwhile, CEO pay has risen to 300 times the average worker's income, up from 30 times. He also said that minimum wage jobs are increasingly held by a family's primary breadwinner, instead of a teen looking for part-time work. According to Stiglitz, there's no magic bullet to solving income inequality. One way to combat it, he said, is to lessen the monopolist power of companies, which leads to lower wages.
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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)
This is old news. He was saying the same stuff six months ago. Why drag out this stale drivel again?
Answer: His timing couldn't be better. Income inequality and economic mobility have already emerged as hot topics for the 2016 presidential election, with candidates on both sides of the aisle offering their prescriptions for solving the growing income gap. Stiglitz is one of several economists who has spoken with Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton on these issues.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
But it's not news if it has all been hashed through before. This is just a rehash.
Haven't you got it yet? What and when something is news is when the leftist MSM says what and when it's news. NB - the only media outlet that has been covering the Clinton Cash story the past few days is.............c'mon now, you can do it.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
That's gonna happen when you set the minimum wage at $20 an hour and make it a "living" wage. You reap what you sow. Now, what does the teen do to acquire work experience?
No, that's gonna happen when the corporate asshats downsize and outsource skilled manufacturing jobs and the idiot politicians hype low-wage service sector instead. It's the "Giant Sucking Sound" that Ross Perot warned us about over 20 years ago, and Elizabeth Warren is the only credible politician who's telling it like it is today. The rest are a bunch of sleazy corporate suckups and sockpuppets.
Look at the timeline, Stiglitz's comment about the problem being from the Reagan election in 1980 is pure propaganda. The data clearly shows that the middle and 4th quartile have been taking it in the shorts since at least 1965 - yes, that's right, since the Great Society.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Uh-huh. And THAT happens because the federal government (and unions) force companies to pay their employees more than they're worth. You go right ahead and tell all employers to pay a "living" wage, and watch as they ship every job they can overseas where those countries are not as "enlightened" as you are.
In that case, GOOD for the federal government and labor unions! Only a total moron would want to undermine our domestic standard of living and turn the American Dream into just another Third World cesspit.
You go right ahead and tell all employers to pay a "living" wage, and watch as they ship every job they can overseas where those countries are not as "enlightened" as you are. In that case, GOOD for the federal government and labor unions! If THAT is what it takes to develop the American Middle Class Standard of Living that we've enjoyed for the last 75 years or so, then we need MORE government and labor unions, not less. You sir, are the corporate squeak-box for what is going wrong with our economy today... After reviewing those three simple concepts, there is little doubt as to why the American Dream is slipping away. That is not to say that employers do not have a hand in the system, just that your "More GrubberMint" strategy is more ridiculous that the alternative of no GrubberMint at all.
(((yawn))) George W Bush proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that "trickle down" doesn't work. Time to stop getting suckered by Wall Street propaganda. They're the TRUE non-productive parasites in the American economy.
That is not to say that employers do not have a hand in the system, just that your "More GrubberMint" strategy is more ridiculous that the alternative of no GrubberMint at all. Nieeither of you guys get it. ping #7 and look at the facts. Up until 1991-92 each licome grouop level shared relatively equally in income growth, with the botome quartile generally doing better than each of the other groups With the excpetion of the Top 5% and Top Quartile groups starting about 1982. The real break out from the rest of the pack from the rest of the groups strated in about 1993. Gee, guess who was POTUS ate that time. Why is was Slick Wille, yes, the same Slickster that felt our pain. But there is more, my dear Grasshoppers. The run away from the pack for the Top 5% and Top Quartile groups leveled off in 2000 and actually declined in 2002. Gee, I wonder who was POTUS at that time. You guessed it, boys and girls, it was George W. Bush. Like all Lefties, this author and those who support his BS are knowingly lying SOS. But guess what Kiddies, it doesn't matter. It's a great propaganda sound bite which takes took much work for the average voting dolt to understand the lie that is being fed them. Yes, Willie, I am speaking of you.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Yet, Comrade, you are a willing mindless soldier of Stiglitz's propaganda army - aren't you.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Wrong again, stooge. Alan Tonelson: The Race To The Bottom: Why A Worldwide Worker Surplus And Uncontrolled Free Trade Are Sinking American Living Standards
Nice try, Comrade. 1 star review "Facts, Less Dogma PleaseByDavid B. Thayeron March 5, 2001 Worldwide worker surplus? Uncontrolled free trade? Has this guy ever read a basic economics text? About halfway through Chapter One of that text he'd encounter a concept called comparative advantage, which since the days of the early Scottish economists has proven that all parties benefit from free trade. What if each of us, for instance, were forced to grow our own food, weave our own clothes, build our own houses? Free trade of course allows us to concentrate on what each of us, throughout the world, does best. One need only look at the economic boom incited in part by NAFTA -- despite the Chicken Little predictions of the protectionists leading up to its ratification -- to realize how much each country in North America has benefited from free trade. Note that "exploited" Mexican workers have just voted the pro-free trade Vicente Fox into office. And, what of this "exploitation" of foreign workers? Is it better in fact to pay them low wages, or just none at all? Artificially high wages cause unemployment -- again, as any rudimentary reading of economics will demonstrate. Innumerable interviews with "oppressed" workers in developing nations reveal the extent to which they are grateful for the introduction of new jobs, at whatever the wage. Furthemore, these workers are only paid "slave wages" by lofty American standards: remember that the cost of living in these countries is extraordinarily low relative to the developed world, as any traveler there has readily recognized. This apologia for protectionism should be relegated to the same heap that contains Mein Kampf, Das Kapital, and other selective interpretations of the historical record. I don't know about Alan Tonelson, but I think we should care about all workers, not just those who are lucky enough to live in America."
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
The same Vicente Fox who exported his undocumented workforce across our borders?
That didn't benefit us one iota, stooge. Agree, Comrade. Our immigration policy is a scandal and has been for decades. This has nothing to do with Free Trade but simple greed and criminality on the part of our elected politicians, both Ds and Rs. But guess what, Boris, We The People keep electing these criminals, over and over and over again. And it's not just Big Business bankrolling the thugs but Unions, the direst players of them all, as well. Please, if you can, explain to us how Free Trade is responsible for the declining accomplishments of U.S. K-12 students. Explain how FreeTrade accounts for the following: "The results from the 2012 Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which are being released on Tuesday, show that teenagers in the U.S. slipped from 25th to 31st in math since 2009; from 20th to 24th in science; and from 11th to 21st in reading, according to the National Center for Education Statistics, which gathers and analyzes the data in the U.S."
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Maybe it's because Microsoft's Xbox, originally made in Guadelajara, Mexico, and currently in Shanghai, is turning the tubby little couch potatos' heads into mush. If the Xbox was made in the United States, it would cost a lot more, and parents would make their kids get off the couch and go cut the neighbor's grass to earn the money to buy their own damn Xbox. And when the kids start cutting the neighbor's grass again, all the illegal immigrants would go back to Mexico.
Because along with free trade came increased border crossings. Like the Mexican semis that are here now. It made it easier for them to come here. Then since more of them are here now it puts a strain on our public education system. That is how.
Ya vol mein fuhrer!
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Free Trade has nothing to do with the Mexican invasion and you very well know it.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
You're wrong. Under NAFTA, American corn exports to Mexico displaced millions of small/rural Mexican farmers who, in turn, flooded north of the border looking for work.
You cannot blame U.S. politicians' lack of enforcement of our immigration laws and Mexician government's pathetic and corrupt economic policies on Free Trade. By your logic the U.S. displaced manufacturing workers should have illegally immigrated to Canada.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Of course I can.
Oh, you mean the Democratic Party?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I ask again, why haven't displaced U.S. manufacturing workers et.al illegally immigrated to Canada?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Jesus, a Nobel prize winner. He's right up there with Obama and he didn't need to wait a week before entering the presidency to get it. Will wonders never cease?
You're wrong again.
So then why didn't displaced Canadians illeglyy migrate to the U.S.? HINT: Your conclusion that Free Trade is the root casue of illegal immigration is totally erroneous.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Because Canadians respect American law and migrate legally if they want to live and work here. But most of them stay in Canada anyway because they get Universal Health care.
Ah, so Free Trade has nothing to do with it. Thanks for finally agreeing with me.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Free Trade with Canada is actually Fair Trade because the Canadians generally have the same labor, health, safety & environmental regulations and standard of living that we do. Free Trade only becomes Unfair Trade when Business arranges corrupt agreements with oppressive Third World regimes who do NOT observe similar labor, health, safety & environmental protections that we have.
Yup. Pre-planned part and parcel of the same tapestry of violated American sovereignty -- whether economic (NAFTA/CAFTA) or national (Illegal Invasion/Sanctuary Cities) and defacto Amnesty.)
Agree on the first part, but why should we be able to conflate the elites' illegal immigration/Amnesty policy with the very same elites' scandalous criminal dismantling of thousands of US factories and with it the elimination of millions of American jobs and control over resources? Both help accomplish the same thing; They weaken US economic independence and sovereignty.
You've conveniently left out of the equation China's exploitation of its slave labor force to undercut US business. Was THAT "Fair"?? China's lack of safety regs, insurance, or ANY regs was just a coincidental advantage that's helped bury the US economy once and for all (yes btw, socialists are BIG on regs.) Look -- without tariffs the US economy and industries were inevitably going to be murdered by China's slave machine. EVERY US SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN AND GUBMINT ECONOMIST KNEW IT but laughed their way to the bank.
Both help accomplish the same thing; They weaken US economic independence and sovereignty. .........why should we be able to conflate the elites' illegal immigration/Amnesty policy with the very same elites' scandalous criminal dismantling of thousands of US factories and with it the elimination of millions of American jobs and control over resources? I don't know but some see to believe that Free Trade is the root cause of the former and modus operandi for the latter. "Both help accomplish the same thing; They weaken US economic independence and sovereignty." Agree but with a comment. I am not sure what is meant by economic independence. I do not believe that any country is better off with no trade whatsoever. It is a question of a balance of economic prosperity and national security.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
That may well be. I just don't see both events as random coincidences. I believe there was a detailed projected blueprint for "Free Trade" plus give China "Most Favored Nation" trading status....along with Open Borders AND Amnesty. I am not sure what is meant by economic independence. I do not believe that any country is better off with no trade whatsoever. It is a question of a balance of economic prosperity and national security. I'm not suggesting trade is necessarily bad. But it should have been mere common sense to calculate that a doohickey made in the USA was going to cost $.10 and in China $.01. Without heavy tariffs, there was NO way American factories and industries would compete with ChiCom slave labor. Or for that matter, Mexican peon wages. *That* has cost America our "economic independence." If America now needs a doohickey or car part, without factories, guess who we are beholden to? Bottom Line: Ross Perot called it. Bush, Klintoon and the rest of the whores sold out America. All we have left for collateral is...Federal Land (and plenty of it out West.)
No doubt that there are rational arguments on both sides of the question. That is why I believe that the issue is one of prudent balance. Don't for a nano second believe that as we might withdraw from importing goods from China the rest of the developed and devloping world would not fill the void. This will continue to happen until a reasonable, rational balance of competitive advantage based trade is realized. It was and remains pure folly (and a lack of common sense) to believe that the U.S. could maintain a standard of living so much above that of the rest of the world for anytime into the foreseable future. Free trade is NOT a zero sum game, especially on a global basis. Any costs to a society must be weighed against the benefits. In that perfect world each society would enjoy a level of well being consistent with its economic competitive advantage. That does not mean that Free Trade will result in a state in which all economies enjoy the same standard or living or economic well being, nor promises such, but rather that level which can be justified by the specific resources of each economy. Some will still be better off than others but all would be better off than otherwise without Free Trade. And yes, within any economy there will be displaced workers and stranded capital as it moves away from protectionism toward Free Trade. In a well run economy the displaced workers will find a new niche and the stranded capial will be readily absorbed. Thanks for listening. I am now going to turn off the bubble machine on this subject.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
This will continue to happen until a reasonable, rational balance of competitive advantage based trade is realized. We can't withdraw from importing much of anything now, can we? We're a nation addicted to cheap stuff. But now we are compelled to import mere necessities. Now that most of our manufacturing facilities have been shuttered, China has America by the balls. Have you noticed the flood even of imported foreign (and ChiCom) food?? We have a trade imbalance that's ridiculous. That can't/won't be reversed for decades (if ever.) It was and remains pure folly (and a lack of common sense) to believe that the U.S. could maintain a standard of living so much above that of the rest of the world for anytime into the foreseable future. I respectfully disagree. America held EVERY card in the deck. Our standard of living could have actually improved. Up until its traitorous global-first policy-makers decided to sabotage our sovereignty and prioritize unskilled, unfettered Third World immigration back in 1965. While at the same time incorporating LBJ's Great Plantation Society. If not for those dual disastrous policy, imagine THIS America today. Also imagine: America tapping into its immense oil reserves back in the late 1960s as we retained ALL of those hundreds of billions nationally instead of transferring it to hostile OPEC/Muzzie nations (wealth-transfer = power.) Imagine: An America whose economy is NOT service-based (even decades of our R&D technology has been stolen, sold and/or given away.) Imagine: Steel tariffs that made the market competitive instead of shuttering US steel plants. Imagine tariffs of ChiCom goods that made a doohickey cost $.07 instead of a penny. Imagine the revenue fair tariffs would have created in US gubmint coffers *while* keeping alive US factories and mills. Tariffs, my friend, would have facilitated "a rational balance of competition-based trade." The goal of a balance between Protectionism for domestic goods and manufacturing *and* Free Trade was never the goal of our legislatures and government, but should have been. The job of our legislatures and government was NOT to treasonously create global economic parity at America's expense; Creating a free-for-all Wild West of exploitation of the US market by global economic mercenaries and elites apparently *was*. The #1 casualty: The American Middle Class. SOSO, as a result of adopting "FREE TRADE" policies (especially with slave-labor/no-regs China and subsequent open-door immigration policy), the die has been cast. The Bush-Clinton-0bola regimes have sold out America's sovereignty every-which-way. We've inexplicably been importing an unskilled labor force by the tens of millions as domestic unemployment is rife. Displaced over-qualified skilled domestic workers must now either find menial work or collect social services. The result has been catastrophic. AS PLANNED BY the GLOBALIST ELITE. Thank you for listening as well.
America held EVERY card in the deck. Our standard of living could have actually improved. You misunderstood my comment. I didn't say that our standard of living couldn't or wouldn't improve but that the gap between us and the rest of the world would narrow. "The goal of a balance between Protectionism for domestic goods and manufacturing *and* Free Trade was never the goal of our legislatures and government, but should have been. The job of our legislatures and government was NOT to treasonously create global economic parity at America's expense; Creating a free-for-all Wild West of exploitation of the US market by global economic mercenaries and elites apparently *was*. The #1 casualty: The American Middle Class." I agree that we did not manage this very well. But the narrowing of the gap is inevitable whether you like it or not. It will happy either by Adam Smith's Invisible Hand or by gun point. Make no mistake about that. And if by the latter the U.S> economy definitely would be much the worse off. SOSO, as a result of adopting "FREE TRADE" policies (especially with slave- labor/no-regs China and subsequent open-door immigration policy), the die has been cast. The Bush-Clinton-0bola regimes have sold out America's sovereignty every-which-way. We've inexplicably been importing an unskilled labor force by the tens of millions as domestic unemployment is rife. Displaced over- qualified skilled domestic workers must now either find menial work or collect social services." Not true. The unskilled labor has predominantly been illegal immigration, nothing to do with Free Trade. We have deliberately been importing hi-tech, engineering, scientific, etc. skilled labor. The claim is that our educational system is not producing enough qualified high skill tech type workers at home. To the extent that this is true why should we not import the labor that our economy needs but is not producing itself?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
#2. To: TooConservative (#1)
Why drag out this stale drivel again?
#3. To: SOSO (#2)
#4. To: TooConservative (#3)
But it's not news if it has all been hashed through before.
#5. To: Willie Green (#0)
"He also said that minimum wage jobs are increasingly held by a family's primary breadwinner, instead of a teen looking for part-time work."
#6. To: misterwhite (#5)
That's gonna happen when you set the minimum wage at $20 an hour and make it a "living" wage.
#7. To: Willie Green, All (#0)
Stiglitz argued that income inequality in America is not just the result of market forces, but also politics and policies put in place by lawmakers and companies, particularly after Ronald Reagan's election in 1980.
#8. To: Willie Green (#6)
"No, that's gonna happen when the corporate asshats downsize and outsource skilled manufacturing jobs"
#9. To: misterwhite (#8)
And THAT happens because the federal government (and unions) force companies to pay their employees more than they're worth.
If THAT is what it takes to develop the American Middle Class Standard of Living that we've enjoyed for the last 75 years or so, then we need MORE government and labor unions, not less.
#10. To: Willie Green (#9)
Uh-huh. And THAT happens because the federal government (and unions) force companies to pay their employees more than they're worth.
As the GrubberMint creates policies that encourage cheap labor imports, it dilutes the already weak wages we have.
As the GrubberMint incentivizes export of manufacturing power, it accelerates the already declining manufacturing base, in turn results in net job loss.
As the GrubberMint pushes forward more policies favoring unions and forced wages, it in effect lowers wages across the board as companies seek lower cost alternatives such as imported labor or outsourcing which significantly less regulated.
#11. To: TheFireBert (#10)
(Edited)
GrubberMint
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.
#12. To: TheFireBert, Willie Green (#10)
After reviewing those three simple concepts, there is little doubt as to why the American Dream is slipping away.
#13. To: SOSO (#12)
Yes, Willie, I am speaking of you.
I voted for Ross Perot & Pat Buchanan, stooge.
Not the Bent One nor the Dumb One.
#14. To: Willie Green (#13)
I voted for Ross Perot & Pat Buchanan, stooge. Not the Bent One nor the Dumb One.
#15. To: SOSO (#14)
#16. To: Willie Green (#15)
Alan Tonelson: The Race To The Bottom: Why A Worldwide Worker Surplus And Uncontrolled Free Trade Are Sinking American Living Standards
#17. To: SOSO (#16)
Note that "exploited" Mexican workers have just voted the pro-free trade Vicente Fox into office.
That didn't benefit us one iota, stooge.
#18. To: Willie Green (#17)
The same Vicente Fox who exported his undocumented workforce across our borders?
#19. To: SOSO (#18)
Please, if you can, explain to us how Free Trade is responsible for the declining accomplishments of U.S. K-12 students.
#20. To: SOSO (#18)
Please, if you can, explain to us how Free Trade is responsible for the declining accomplishments of U.S. K-12 students.
#21. To: Willie Green (#19)
If the Xbox was made in the United States, it would cost a lot more, and parents would make their kids get off the couch and go cut the neighbor's grass to earn the money to buy their own damn Xbox. And when the kids start cutting the neighbor's grass again, all the illegal immigrants would go back to Mexico.
#22. To: A K A Stone (#20)
Because along with free trade came increased border crossings.
#23. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#22)
Free Trade has nothing to do with the Mexican invasion and you very well know it.
#24. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone (#23)
Under NAFTA, American corn exports to Mexico displaced millions of small/rural Mexican farmers who, in turn, flooded north of the border looking for work.
#25. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#24)
You cannot blame U.S. politicians' lack of enforcement of our immigration laws and Mexician government's pathetic and corrupt economic policies on Free Trade.
Just who do you think is responsible for corrupting those US & Mexican politicians and government officials, anyway?
Clue: It's those Businesses and Industries that benefit most from cheap, low-wage/no-benefit labor and lax/substand health, safety & environmental standards on BOTH sides of the border.
#26. To: Willie Green (#25)
Clue: It's those Businesses and Industries that benefit most from cheap, low-wage/no-benefit labor and lax/substand health, safety & environmental standards on BOTH sides of the border.
#27. To: Willie Green (#25)
#28. To: Willie Green (#0)
The American Dream is a myth, says Nobel-prize winner
#29. To: SOSO (#27)
I ask again, why haven't displaced U.S. manufacturing workers et.al illegally immigrated to Canada?
After NAFTA, Canadian jobs have also been downsized and outsourced to third world countries.
And when the United States cracks down on "undocumented migrants," Illegal Immigrants Chase False Hope to Canada
#30. To: Willie Green (#29)
After NAFTA, Canadian jobs have also been downsized and outsourced to third world countries.
#31. To: SOSO (#30)
So then why didn't displaced Canadians illeglyy migrate to the U.S.?
#32. To: Willie Green (#31)
Because Canadians respect American law and migrate legally if they want to live and work here. But most of them stay in Canada anyway because they get Universal Health care.
#33. To: SOSO (#32)
Ah, so Free Trade has nothing to do with it.
#34. To: A K A Stone, SOSO (#20)
Because along with free trade came increased border crossings.
#35. To: SOSO (#18)
Our immigration policy is a scandal and has been for decades. This has nothing to do with Free Trade but simple greed and criminality on the part of our elected politicians, both Ds and Rs.
#36. To: Willie Green, SOSO (#33)
Free Trade only becomes Unfair Trade when Business arranges corrupt agreements with oppressive Third World regimes who do NOT observe similar labor, health, safety & environmental protections that we have.
#37. To: Liberator (#35)
#38. To: SOSO (#37)
I don't know but some see to believe that Free Trade is the root cause of the former and modus operandi for the latter.
#39. To: Liberator (#38)
I'm not suggesting trade is necessarily bad. But it should have been mere common sense to calculate that a doohickey made in the USA was going to cost $.10 and in China $.01. Without heavy tariffs, there was NO way American factories and industries would compete with ChiCom slave labor. Or for that matter, Mexican peon wages. *That* has cost America our "economic independence." If America now needs a doohickey or car part, without factories, guess who we are beholden to?
#40. To: SOSO (#39)
Don't for a nano second believe that as we might withdraw from importing goods from China the rest of the developed and devloping world would not fill the void.
#41. To: Liberator (#40)
I respectfully disagree.
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