[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"International court’s attack on Israel a sign of the free world’s moral collapse"

"Pete Hegseth Is Right for the DOD"

"Why Our Constitution Secures Liberty, Not Democracy"

Woodworking and Construction Hacks

"CNN: Reporters Were Crying and Hugging in the Hallways After Learning of Matt Gaetz's AG Nomination"

"NEW: Democrat Officials Move to Steal the Senate Race in Pennsylvania, Admit to Breaking the Law"

"Pete Hegseth Is a Disruptive Choice for Secretary of Defense. That’s a Good Thing"

Katie Britt will vote with the McConnell machine

Battle for Senate leader heats up — Hit pieces coming from Thune and Cornyn.

After Trump’s Victory, There Can Be No Unity Without A Reckoning

Vivek Ramaswamy, Dark-horse Secretary of State Candidate

Megyn Kelly has a message for Democrats. Wait for the ending.

Trump to choose Tom Homan as his “Border Czar”

"Trump Shows Demography Isn’t Destiny"

"Democrats Get a Wake-Up Call about How Unpopular Their Agenda Really Is"

Live Election Map with ticker shows every winner.

Megyn Kelly Joins Trump at His Final PA Rally of 2024 and Explains Why She's Supporting Him

South Carolina Lawmaker at Trump Rally Highlights Story of 3-Year-Old Maddie Hines, Killed by Illegal Alien

GOP Demands Biden, Harris Launch Probe into Twice-Deported Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Grayson Davis

Previously-Deported Illegal Charged With Killing Arkansas Children’s Hospital Nurse in Horror DUI Crash

New Data on Migrant Crime Rates Raises Eyebrows, Alarms

Thousands of 'potentially fraudulent voter registration applications' Uncovered, Stopped in Pennsylvania

Michigan Will Count Ballot of Chinese National Charged with Voting Illegally

"It Did Occur" - Kentucky County Clerk Confirms Voting Booth 'Glitch'' Shifted Trump Votes To Kamala

Legendary Astronaut Buzz Aldrin 'wholeheartedly' Endorses Donald Trump

Liberal Icon Naomi Wolf Endorses Trump: 'He's Being More Inclusive'

(Washed Up Has Been) Singer Joni Mitchell Screams 'F*** Trump' at Hollywood Bowl

"Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race"

He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage

The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom!

"Kamala’s Inane Talking Points"

"The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics"

Easy Drywall Patch

Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast

In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind"

Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’

Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens

Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer?

hurricanes and heat waves are Worse

'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic

Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump

IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons

Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training

The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses

Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists

Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general

Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep

Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA.

Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence.


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

How To
See other How To Articles

Title: McVeigh defense archive shows bomber viewed blast as failure
Source: StamfordAdvocate
URL Source: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/new ... omber-viewed-blast-6207060.php
Published: Apr 17, 2015
Author: MICHAEL GRACZYK, Associated Press
Post Date: 2015-04-19 19:08:11 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 19799
Comments: 45

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Timothy McVeigh considered the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building 20 years ago somewhat of a failure, viewed himself as a "Paul Revere-type messenger" and even suggested his defense team should receive $800,000 from the government, according an archive of documents donated by the convicted bomber's lead attorney.

The estimated 1 million pages of paper documents from Stephen Jones now fill 550 file cabinet-sized boxes at the Briscoe Center for American History at the University of Texas, where the Enid, Oklahoma, attorney received his undergraduate degree. The trove, delivered to the school in three phases since 1998, only became fully organized late last year.

It includes a confidential report from a polygraph examiner, who wrote that McVeigh had wanted to 'take out' the Murrah Building on April 19, 1995. Although the blast killed 168 people, including 19 children, the examiner concluded that "In McVeigh's mind, he believed that he had definitely screwed up because he left the building still standing."

McVeigh was executed by injection in 2001 at age 33. Co-conspirator Terry Nichols was convicted separately and sentenced to life in prison.

Even as he stood accused of orchestrating what until the Sept. 11 attacks was considered the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil, McVeigh appeared to be driven by profit and thought his attorneys should be entitled to "$800,000 (after fees, taxes)."

"If I'm gonna die anyway, I want to make some money. Not for me, but to try to make up for what my family has been put thru, as well as to shell out some 'bonuses' to my legal team.," he wrote in one note to his defense team included in the archive.

In another, he doodled a tank ramming a house and wrote: "This is the FBI! ... Send out your women and children. We know you're in there and we know you have Bibles and a copy of the Constitution!"

The collection also includes a copy of a published cartoon showing 11 jurors frowning and one smiling, with an arrow pointing to her and the note: "My choice, potential juror."

Don Carleton, executive director of the museum, said Jones wasn't comfortable putting the material at an Oklahoma institution "because the feelings were so raw" and his fears the collection could be perceived as "almost a shrine" to the convicted bomber.

"It's been a difficult collection to figure out how to let people know we have it available for research," Carleton said. "You don't want to promote it. That's not the right word. You don't want to publicize it without coming across as being somewhat celebratory. It's almost like Holocaust records. You've got a whole bunch of people who are rightly so sensitive to this."

Besides the handwritten notes from McVeigh, the defense case files include reports of investigations, news stories, photos, recordings and trial exhibits.

In 2001, Jones published a book suggesting McVeigh and Nichols could not have been alone in carrying out the bombing, McVeigh denied any knowledge of another collaborator, or presence of an accomplice who became known in the case as John Doe No. 2. But the polygraph examiner, Tim Domgard, wrote there were "indications of deception" in McVeigh's responses related to questions about others involved.

McVeigh provided a first-person account of the bombing during two days of interviews with Jones in September 1995. He talked of lighting the fuse in a rental truck filled with explosive fertilizer, parking it at the building, throwing the key behind the seat, then walking away and trying not to look conspicuous, even after the blast hit.

He told Jones that he didn't have the resources to conduct a "solo war" and was convinced he "could have gotten away clean from this and continued on if I had anywhere to go."

"I determined that the best way would be to continue on as the Paul Revere type messenger instead of the John Brown type revolutionary, that you could accomplish maybe two in one," McVeigh said.

In the polygraph interview, McVeigh said when he was pulled over by an Oklahoma highway trooper shortly after the bombing for not displaying a license plate on his car, he had "several opportunities to kill the trooper, however, did not because he was a state official and not a federal official."

Asked about events leading up to the bombing, McVeigh said "action had to be taken" after the 1994 passage of the assault weapons ban, but said he wasn't certain at that time exactly what kind of action would be appropriate. In other notes, he also points to the outcome of the Branch Davidian siege near Waco as an influence.

The files have numerous references to media coverage and McVeigh's sense that Jones was too cozy with reporters and TV producers.

McVeigh complained to Jones in 1995 that he was granting so many television and newspaper interviews, "I am afraid you are becoming addicted to the 'media bug." Jones responded: "If you want to keep the media on your side, they must be fed."

In one note to Jones marked "Personal," McVeigh told him if anyone ever approached him "to 'lean' on you to 'throw' my case, please confide in me."

"I am a realist, and I know our government," he added. "TDC — threat, duress, or coercion — is a standard. Money or muscle can influence all but the most ideological."

In the interview with Jones detailing the bombing and his arrest, he recalled how someone at the jail watching television coverage of the bombing investigation told him he resembled a composite photo of a suspect being sought.

Then a court appearance for his arrest for carrying a concealed gun and knife during the traffic stop, he noticed increased police activity around the courthouse where he was held. After his bond was set at $5,000, a woman in an adjacent cell told him: "They think you're the bomber."

"And I said, 'No way.' And then here is where it becomes a blur, Stephen," McVeigh told Jones.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#4. To: buckeroo (#0)

These documents confirm that McVeigh was a genuine revolutionary in his intent and planning. He wasn't just a terrorist.

He was trying to instigate an uprising, much as Charles Manson wanted to incite a race war.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-19   19:23:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#4) (Edited)

These documents confirm that McVeigh was a genuine revolutionary in his intent and planning. He wasn't just a terrorist.

He was trying to instigate an uprising

He was trying to instigate an uprising in retribution for the women and children needlessly killed in a carnival atmosphere at Waco. They were in such haste to get on for the celebration that they forgot to bring an arrest warrent for the guy they were after. The feds just came on board and started shooting. There was no evidence to support Branch Davidian illegality at the time.

rlk  posted on  2015-04-19   20:11:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: rlk (#19)

There was no evidence to support Branch Davidian illegality at the time.

There was enough to indict and arrest David Koresh for sex crimes involving children. They chose not to arrest him although they knew that he kept a regular schedule of weekly haircuts at a Waco barbershop. They wanted to confront the entire cult and raid their property.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-19   20:43:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative (#20)

There was enough to indict and arrest David Koresh for sex crimes involving children.

Uh, no there wasn't.

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-20   5:30:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Deckard (#28)

Wiki:

The child abuse and sexual abuse claims have been widely circulated in the press coverage though it is often difficult to separate the purported claims from the evidence.[13] Koresh's doctrine of the House of David[14] did lead to spiritual marriages with both married and single women in the group and with at least one underage girl. The underage girl was Michelle Jones, the younger sister of Koresh's legal wife Rachel and the daughter of lifelong Branch Davidians Perry and Mary Belle Jones. Koresh took Michelle as a spiritual wife when she was thirteen, evidently with the consent of the Joneses. This means Koresh was in violation of state law and could have been prosecuted for statutory rape in Texas. A six-month investigation of child abuse allegations by the Texas Child Protection Services in 1992 failed to turn up any evidence, most likely because the Branch Davidians concealed the spiritual marriage of Koresh to Michelle Jones, assigning a surrogate husband (David Thibodeau) to the girl for the sake of appearances.[15] A second allegation involved an underage girl, Kiri Jewell, who testified in the Congressional hearings on Waco in 1995. She claimed that, beginning from when she was ten years old, Koresh forced her to perform sexual acts.

Yes, they could have arrested and successfully prosecuted Koresh for sex charges. But they wanted the full raid on the cult HQ for their anti-gun agenda.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-20   6:22:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: TooConservative (#29)

Kiri Jewell, who testified in the Congressional hearings on Waco in 1995. She claimed that, beginning from when she was ten years old, Koresh forced her to perform sexual acts.

Her testimony simply not credible - she wasn't even at Mt. Carmel when the alleged abuse took place.

Ten Years After: Children still being used as human shields

Ten years after the Fiery end at Waco, the media is trotting out its version of nostalgia. Angela K. Browne, writing for the Associated Press has apparently decided to post her own version of nostalgia and can't get the nostalgia quite right. She writes:

Kiri Jewell, now 22 and a Michigan college student, told ABC's PrimeTime Thursday. "He never was very specific but at some point, we were gonna have to die for him. I didn't expect to live past 12."

Kiri Jewell is a liar. She didn't think that she was going to live past 12 but told a nation-wide audience, during an interview on the Donahue show in 1995, that she expected to be Howell's wife when she turned 13.

The article is timed perfectly and is meant to bolster the nonsense the government has been peddling. Some of us reflect on Waco during this time of year and here's another pack of lies to greet the masses with more of the "he asked for it" kind of reporting we've come to expect.. For starters, Kiri Jewell is now 22 and attending college. Is she still a child as the headline suggests?

There's nothing more cynical (or abusive) than using children for this purpose. But they used Kiri once before and to devastating effect.


(Kiri Jewell’s testimony was) more appropriate for ‘Oprah’ than a Congressional committee....” — David Rosenbaum, Times, 7/23]

Exactly. Jewell, who's father had been through a messy divorce, paraded Jewell through the halls of "justice" to provide prurient testimony that was, to some of us watching, clearly scripted and clearly sensationalized. After killing men, women and children, the government was now using the children who survived as pawns in a disgusting game of CYA.

The sole reason that Kiri Jewell was paraded in front of Congress was to protect the ATF and FBI. Child abuse allegations were completely off-topic for the Congressional hearings and in fact had nothing to do with the issue at all. Neither the ATF nor the FBI ever filed charges alleging child-abuse and neither enforce such laws.

The 14-year-old "victim" who testified, Kiri Jewell, is also suspect.

Rep. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) brought Jewell in for the television cameras to testify, in graphic detail, how she had been sexually molested by Koresh.

But according to British reports, the girl was lying. Scribe Ambrose Evans-Pritchard discovered that Jewell was not in Texas when the alleged abuses took place.

"She was living with her mother and grandmother in California for most of the years in question," Evans-Pritchard says. "Her father, David Jewell, has been promoting her allegations on the TV talk show circuit. He is a man of questionable character."

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-20   9:06:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard (#30)

Ten Years After: Children still being used as human shields

I don't dispute they are trying to exploit these all-too-willing "victims" at this point.

We do know that Koresh fathered at least one child with a young girl, at 15 as I recall. So there is no doubt he slept with underage girls.

And that was plenty of basis to arrest, prosecute and imprison him. They didn't need to raid Mount Carmel on a gun raid (which is what they really were after).

Koresh was no knight in shining armor for the Right to rally around. Far from it.

Would you want your young teen daughter living at Mount Carmel with Koresh? I don't think so.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-20   11:10:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: TooConservative (#31)

Would you want your young teen daughter living at Mount Carmel with Koresh? I don't think so.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't become a member of their club. Nor would I want my daughter to be around you either. You are too obsessed at attempting to recenter any discussion into making excuses for other people who are dead wrong. If you make excuses for other people you'll make excuses for youself. You're underhandedly destructive and dangerous.

rlk  posted on  2015-04-20   13:27:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

        There are no replies to Comment # 39.


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com