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Title: McVeigh defense archive shows bomber viewed blast as failure
Source:
StamfordAdvocate
URL Source: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/new ... omber-viewed-blast-6207060.php
Published: Apr 17, 2015
Author: MICHAEL GRACZYK, Associated Press
Post Date: 2015-04-19 19:08:11 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 19795
Comments: 45
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Timothy McVeigh considered the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building 20 years ago somewhat of a failure, viewed himself as a "Paul Revere-type messenger" and even suggested his defense team should receive $800,000 from the government, according an archive of documents donated by the convicted bomber's lead attorney. The estimated 1 million pages of paper documents from Stephen Jones now fill 550 file cabinet-sized boxes at the Briscoe Center for American History at the University of Texas, where the Enid, Oklahoma, attorney received his undergraduate degree. The trove, delivered to the school in three phases since 1998, only became fully organized late last year. It includes a confidential report from a polygraph examiner, who wrote that McVeigh had wanted to 'take out' the Murrah Building on April 19, 1995. Although the blast killed 168 people, including 19 children, the examiner concluded that "In McVeigh's mind, he believed that he had definitely screwed up because he left the building still standing." McVeigh was executed by injection in 2001 at age 33. Co-conspirator Terry Nichols was convicted separately and sentenced to life in prison. Even as he stood accused of orchestrating what until the Sept. 11 attacks was considered the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil, McVeigh appeared to be driven by profit and thought his attorneys should be entitled to "$800,000 (after fees, taxes)." "If I'm gonna die anyway, I want to make some money. Not for me, but to try to make up for what my family has been put thru, as well as to shell out some 'bonuses' to my legal team.," he wrote in one note to his defense team included in the archive. In another, he doodled a tank ramming a house and wrote: "This is the FBI! ... Send out your women and children. We know you're in there and we know you have Bibles and a copy of the Constitution!" The collection also includes a copy of a published cartoon showing 11 jurors frowning and one smiling, with an arrow pointing to her and the note: "My choice, potential juror." Don Carleton, executive director of the museum, said Jones wasn't comfortable putting the material at an Oklahoma institution "because the feelings were so raw" and his fears the collection could be perceived as "almost a shrine" to the convicted bomber. "It's been a difficult collection to figure out how to let people know we have it available for research," Carleton said. "You don't want to promote it. That's not the right word. You don't want to publicize it without coming across as being somewhat celebratory. It's almost like Holocaust records. You've got a whole bunch of people who are rightly so sensitive to this." Besides the handwritten notes from McVeigh, the defense case files include reports of investigations, news stories, photos, recordings and trial exhibits. In 2001, Jones published a book suggesting McVeigh and Nichols could not have been alone in carrying out the bombing, McVeigh denied any knowledge of another collaborator, or presence of an accomplice who became known in the case as John Doe No. 2. But the polygraph examiner, Tim Domgard, wrote there were "indications of deception" in McVeigh's responses related to questions about others involved. McVeigh provided a first-person account of the bombing during two days of interviews with Jones in September 1995. He talked of lighting the fuse in a rental truck filled with explosive fertilizer, parking it at the building, throwing the key behind the seat, then walking away and trying not to look conspicuous, even after the blast hit. He told Jones that he didn't have the resources to conduct a "solo war" and was convinced he "could have gotten away clean from this and continued on if I had anywhere to go." "I determined that the best way would be to continue on as the Paul Revere type messenger instead of the John Brown type revolutionary, that you could accomplish maybe two in one," McVeigh said. In the polygraph interview, McVeigh said when he was pulled over by an Oklahoma highway trooper shortly after the bombing for not displaying a license plate on his car, he had "several opportunities to kill the trooper, however, did not because he was a state official and not a federal official." Asked about events leading up to the bombing, McVeigh said "action had to be taken" after the 1994 passage of the assault weapons ban, but said he wasn't certain at that time exactly what kind of action would be appropriate. In other notes, he also points to the outcome of the Branch Davidian siege near Waco as an influence. The files have numerous references to media coverage and McVeigh's sense that Jones was too cozy with reporters and TV producers. McVeigh complained to Jones in 1995 that he was granting so many television and newspaper interviews, "I am afraid you are becoming addicted to the 'media bug." Jones responded: "If you want to keep the media on your side, they must be fed." In one note to Jones marked "Personal," McVeigh told him if anyone ever approached him "to 'lean' on you to 'throw' my case, please confide in me." "I am a realist, and I know our government," he added. "TDC — threat, duress, or coercion — is a standard. Money or muscle can influence all but the most ideological." In the interview with Jones detailing the bombing and his arrest, he recalled how someone at the jail watching television coverage of the bombing investigation told him he resembled a composite photo of a suspect being sought. Then a court appearance for his arrest for carrying a concealed gun and knife during the traffic stop, he noticed increased police activity around the courthouse where he was held. After his bond was set at $5,000, a woman in an adjacent cell told him: "They think you're the bomber." "And I said, 'No way.' And then here is where it becomes a blur, Stephen," McVeigh told Jones.
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#5. To: TooConservative (#4)
Too bad there's no video of when Charlie got dragged out of that cupboard he was hiding in at Barker Ranch.
I don't have to make *anything* up; The gummint and it's cast of actors creates its own unbelievable script. HA! I wonder who fed McVeigh that "Paul Revere-type messenger" line? It's gold. The estimated 1 million pages of paper documents from Stephen Jones now fill 550 file cabinet-sized boxes... ....Besides the handwritten notes from McVeigh, the defense case files include reports of investigations, news stories, photos, recordings and trial exhibits. I guess this is an open and shut case. How can one million bits of confetti (aka "defense files") and "handwritten notes" from the obviously mentally ill McVeigh be refuted? OH WAIT. Because the testimony and independent investigations and evidence were NOT considered in this case, and because this case was botched from Day One, AND because "Too big to indict" actors are untouchable, this Fairy Tale is an epic FAIL. McVeigh is guilty of being a manipulated patsy, mentally ill nut. He had plenty of help in this evil conspiracy in one of the most embarrassing chapters and cover-ups in US history (considering who the President was, as well as his regime, it's NOT surprising.)
How may of "you" are there at LF?
Were these docs stamped, "OFFICIAL REPORT"?? McVeigh didn't have the wherewithal to plan the detonation of an ant hill with a fire-cracker. Lol...you people crack me up.
He was no revolutionary. He was a GODDAMNED murderer. He was reacting to the Waco, Tx issue without thought about understanding the principles of individual liberties. A true revolutionary figure actually does something in life other than blow up a building killing about 200 innocent people. They challenge the system through logic and proportion to ensure the claim of "revolutionary." You fail.
Interesting that the ATF offices, supposedly McVeigh's target, were empty that day, because the feds knew it was going to happen. What's really appalling is that they didn't warn the daycare center and let those kids die. THE TRUTH ABOUT THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING Seven important facts: 1. In April 1995, the Omnibus Counter Terrorism Bill was struggling to get through the US Congress. After the OKC Bombing occurred, the tragedy looked as though it had been tailor-made to rally public support for the tyrannical bill. 2. The morning of the bombing, the ATF office located inside the Murrah building was empty, unheard of at 9 AM on a weekday. 3. Oklahoma Congressman Ernest Istook told a victim in a taped conversation in 1995 that the OKC bombing was a failed a national security operation that used an FBI provocateur (McVeigh) associated with a militia. 4. The ATF was already putting out a story that the Murrah Building was bombed "because of Waco" only a few hours after the actual blast and before Tim McVeigh was even arrested. 5. An unexploded bomb was found attached to a gas line inside the building, and a FEMA memo reports at least two additional bombs were found in the Murrah Building. Joe Harp, based on his military explosives experience, identified the additional bombs he saw removed from the building as being military in nature. 6. General Benton K. Partin, USAF (Ret.) stated in his OKC Bombing report to US Congress that "The bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, was not caused solely by the truck bomb. The major factor in its destruction appears to have been detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building." 7. Prior to the OKC bombing US Senator Arlan Specter as well as Clinton's NSC director Anthony Lake had been advocating federal national security operations to stop militias in America. Anthony Lake gave a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in the Fall of 1994 in which he said the chief cornerstone of government policy was to "pit our society against militias".
General Benton K. Partin, USAF (Ret.) stated in his OKC Bombing report to US Congress that "The bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, was not caused solely by the truck bomb. The major factor in its destruction appears to have been detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building." Thanks... For some reason some folk just do not want to believe the unfathomable. It's the same case with 9/11. Moreover, for those who'd followed this event, it is known that SEVERAL independent investigators were thwarted in their attempts to ferret out THE truth of this matter. For obvious reasons. Sound familiar?? *cough Able Danger, Sibil Edmonds*
Everyone also "knew" almost immediately McVeigh was a "Christian" and that he had been inspired by "hateful right-wing talk radio." OKC just happened to help the media focus on THAT instead of a maelstrom of Bubba's scandals.
Not at all. The relevance is all about the Sauds destroying America in one swoop by their 19 terrorists. Same thing as McVeigh. Next case!
I don't care about a "Christian" anymore than a "Muslim" destroying property and murdering people without justification other than willful terrorism. I want them all removed from society.
Well again, there was IMO clear collusion between the DC PTB, Saudis, and T'ists regarding 9/11 that's been belabored to death at both LP and LF forever. The worst crock was the lack of video evidence of a plane even hitting the Pentagram...nevermind a gubmint that allowed a supposedly obviously hijacked passenger jet into the most fortified airspace in the world...then allowed it to supposedly crash into the Pentagram. Are you really still buying that??
I hope you're including the media propagandists, traitors, and fairy tale tellers.
As always, Lib, you moved the discussion when you have FAILED in your representation of FACTS. McVeigh was a terrorist. He was a GODDAMNED murderer.
I never said he wasn't a murderer. The point I was raising is whether he was a mere terrorist or an actual revolutionary. Maybe you don't understand the difference.
He was trying to instigate an uprising He was trying to instigate an uprising in retribution for the women and children needlessly killed in a carnival atmosphere at Waco. They were in such haste to get on for the celebration that they forgot to bring an arrest warrent for the guy they were after. The feds just came on board and started shooting. There was no evidence to support Branch Davidian illegality at the time.
There was enough to indict and arrest David Koresh for sex crimes involving children. They chose not to arrest him although they knew that he kept a regular schedule of weekly haircuts at a Waco barbershop. They wanted to confront the entire cult and raid their property.
Who is they?
Both the feds and the locals. Koresh was well known in Waco. He wasn't a hermit.
Exactly. McVeigh OPENED his mouth to confess, then SHUT it all the way to the gallows. Open & shut indeed.
The Patriot Militia, Inc.
BS McVeigh was arrested within 90 minutes of the explosion, as he was traveling on Interstate 35 near Perry in Noble County, Oklahoma. This fact runs counter to your talking point above.
The Patriot Militia, Inc.
I was not a branch Davadian member and would not have cared to join their club. There was no mention of Koresh's sex life before or during the siege. There were no references to complaints put before a grand jury. Two days after they killed everybody, the Government moved in with bulldozers and buried evidence. Two months after that we began hearing mysterious allegations regarding Koresh's sex life as bogus justification for the attack on the Davidians knowing they had killed all contesting witnesses and didn't need evidence. The entire sequence of events smelled of fabrication of evidence and devience from established standards of justice/legal proceedure. It is interesting to note that 32% of protestent ministers were bedding down congregation members at about the same period. This was the same type of thing Koresh was initially posthumously accused of.
Seemed more like a Xlinton/Reno coverup with full libmedia assist to me.
Uh, no there wasn't.
Wiki: Yes, they could have arrested and successfully prosecuted Koresh for sex charges. But they wanted the full raid on the cult HQ for their anti-gun agenda.
Her testimony simply not credible - she wasn't even at Mt. Carmel when the alleged abuse took place. Ten Years After: Children still being used as human shields Ten years after the Fiery end at Waco, the media is trotting out its version of nostalgia. Angela K. Browne, writing for the Associated Press has apparently decided to post her own version of nostalgia and can't get the nostalgia quite right. She writes: The 14-year-old "victim" who testified, Kiri Jewell, is also suspect. Rep. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) brought Jewell in for the television cameras to testify, in graphic detail, how she had been sexually molested by Koresh. But according to British reports, the girl was lying. Scribe Ambrose Evans-Pritchard discovered that Jewell was not in Texas when the alleged abuses took place. "She was living with her mother and grandmother in California for most of the years in question," Evans-Pritchard says. "Her father, David Jewell, has been promoting her allegations on the TV talk show circuit. He is a man of questionable character."
I don't dispute they are trying to exploit these all-too-willing "victims" at this point. We do know that Koresh fathered at least one child with a young girl, at 15 as I recall. So there is no doubt he slept with underage girls. And that was plenty of basis to arrest, prosecute and imprison him. They didn't need to raid Mount Carmel on a gun raid (which is what they really were after). Koresh was no knight in shining armor for the Right to rally around. Far from it. Would you want your young teen daughter living at Mount Carmel with Koresh? I don't think so.
Wouldn't want her near Attorney General Janet Reno or Hillary Clinton either. The prosecutor and crew are as bad as the alleged perp.
Wiki is not the most trusted site for many things. It is roughly the equivalent of the NYT and Washington Post. While occasionally useful, it is also subject to presentation of left wing propaganda from doubtful sources. The first Waco occurred with the slaughter at Ruby Ridge. The judge sent instructions for the person involved (who's name I can't remember) to appear in court a week after his scheduled appearance. The person involved was making preparations to attend the court on the erroneous date he was notified to attend. When he didn't show up on the internally intended date, rogue law enforcement officers jumped in immediately with the gusto of a hound dog, guns blazing and killing. When the advocates of stern law enforcement found they could pull that off and get away with it, it was then time to move on to Waco and the big time. A lot of people (including McVeigh) were angry about it. McVeigh was never represented by adaquate legal counsel. His first lawyer quit after receiving threats on his life. His second lawyer never made an attempt at a change of venue. He did a half-assed uncommited job of defense. Had I been McVeigh's legal counsel, I'd have done a Perry Mason bit that ended up puting the feds on trial for wanton homocide and obstruction of justice.
Randy Weaver.
Did I say he was innocent? YOU just happened to believe the gummint's fairy tale that McVeigh and his partner pulled off this caper all by themselves. THAT was impossible. This was a MASSIVE conspiracy that involved an alphabet op for PURELY POLITICAL REASONS. What -- you can't believe that or won't believe it?? The "official report" is a sloppy sham. So save your outrage for those who covered it all up and created what should have been a minor explosion into the entire building that inexplicably collapsed to the ground as though it'd rigged and mined with explosives (OH WAIT.)
The entire mess reeked from perversion and obstruction of justice from beginning to end.
The point I was raising is whether he was a mere terrorist or an actual revolutionary. Maybe you don't understand the difference. Emotion rules!! ;-) And yes -- there is a distinction between "revolutionary" and "terrorist." But I'm not sure anyone know WHAT catagory McVeigh falls into -- including himself. The media and Left loved to portray McVeigh as a "right-wing" "Christian" who opposed ALL gubmint. Any mental health clinician with knowledge of McVeigh history knew he was mentally ill to begin with and obviously harbored symptoms of a sociopath who held a vendetta against authoritah. Where many draw the line is at the boundary where it's been suggested that McVeigh was exploited to be the perfect patsy for an false flag op and brainwashed. Now I don't expect you to believe that theory, but many do. Especially given the sloppiness of this investigation, the investigators of the "investigation," "scripted" interviews," those who conspicuously were missing from the building that very day, and just too many inconsistencies regarding both the supposed "lone perps" as well as the explosion and way the building collapsed. I don't have the time to document and provide citations for this case, but the evidence from my recollection is pretty damning. Punctuating this mess was McVeigh's aforementioned rapid execution that was nominally opposed by any of the usual "civil rights" crusaders.
Succinctly put. Thanks.
As I said earlier, I wouldn't become a member of their club. Nor would I want my daughter to be around you either. You are too obsessed at attempting to recenter any discussion into making excuses for other people who are dead wrong. If you make excuses for other people you'll make excuses for youself. You're underhandedly destructive and dangerous.
This is true. Incinerating Waco was an exercise to be a cautionary tale (like Rudy Ridge) of the Left's ruthlessness in handling the "disobedient right-wing gun-owners who were inspired by right-wing talk radio." Secondly, in both cases they provided political cover for Bubba's plethora of scandals that were suddenly erased from the front page (much like Bubba's bombing of aspirin factories.)
Aren't you missing some of your comrades over at Salon or HuffPo?
It wouldn't be a stretch to surmise that he may have been "programmed". McVeigh: The Manchurian Candidate ***** From the same link : The Bridge of Gold: Follow the Yellow Brick Road Let's get one thing straight. There has been a cover-up in the Oklahoma Bombing. The moment the FBI admitted that it had withheld evidence in the case from the lawyers, the Grand Jury, and the public, evidence the FBI admits it should have turned over long ago, then we had, by any definition of the word, a cover-up. The cover-up is not an accident, but deliberate, both because according to CNN and the Los Angeles Times, all the evidence on McVeigh's accomplices are in the withheld materials. The FBI lied about when it knew about the withheld evidence, first claiming only recent awareness, than admitting they had known about the withheld evidence a year prior. The problem for the FBI is that there isn't just one or two pieces of evidence, but a preponderence of evidence which taken together builds a compelling case that We the People have not been told the truth about the Oklahoma City Bombing. The evidence for a cover-up isn't just that the bomb squads found additional bombs in the Murrah Building. When you add the affidavits by eye witnesses it becomes even harder to refute. Another example is the famous photo of the Ryder truck in the secret camp. A man has already been executed without even a pretense of a fair trial. The ATF were not in the building when it exploded. They were already putting out a story that the building had been bombed 'because of Waco' only a few hours after the actual blast and before McVeigh was even arrested. An unexploded bomb was found attached to a gas line inside the building. Arlene Blanchard was a survivor of the bombing, and she was ordered to keep silent about what she knew of the bombing by the Army under threat of court martial.
Not just a "stretch," but pretty convincing. Colonel David Hackworth, an Army veteran who interviewed McVeigh for Newsweek, concluded that McVeigh was suffering from a "postwar hangover" ..."Many lose themselves forever." Although such symptoms may be seen as a delayed reaction syndrome resulting from the stress of battle, they are also common symptoms of mind control. *cough Newtown* While visiting friends in Decker, Michigan, McVeigh complained that the Army had implanted him with a microchip, a miniature subcutaneous transponder, so that they could keep track of him. He complained that it left an unexplained scar on his buttocks and was painful to sit on. But...The gimmint wouldn't do all THAT!! They're too busy blowing love-bubbles in Oz, creating rainbows and riding unicorns as our benevolent leaders!
Great info, great links. Thanks for your hard work in your quest to expose the truth here and elsewhere. Some people log into memory only that which they desperately *want* to make sense -- otherwise, this world of scripted chaos and betrayal blows their mind. Literally. Same as in the respective cases of 9/11, Newtown, and the Beantown massacre. I get it -- psychological defense mechanism must be engaged.
You crackpots and your government installed microchips. Stop already! McVeigh was like you, *exactly like you*, he hated government on one hand while with the other took all it offers. Toothless, talentless militia crackpots, the whole lot of you. Now sit still whilst I attend Happy Hour.
The Patriot Militia, Inc.
much as Charles Manson wanted to incite a race war.
#6. To: buckeroo (#1)
You can make up all the conspiracy theories you want.
#7. To: Percy Misanthrope, Buckeroo (#2)
#8. To: TooConservative (#4)
These documents confirm that McVeigh was a genuine revolutionary in his intent and planning. He wasn't just a terrorist.
#9. To: TooConservative (#4)
These documents confirm that McVeigh was a genuine revolutionary in his intent and planning. He wasn't just a terrorist.
#10. To: GrandIsland, Percy Misanthrope, hondo68, Liberator, TooConservative (#3)
Maybe it was all those little preschoolers he blew up in thousands of little pieces... kinda dampers any revolution.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#11. To: Deckard, GrandIsland, Percy Misanthrope, hondo68, TooConservative (#10)
3. Oklahoma Congressman Ernest Istook told a victim in a taped conversation in 1995 that the OKC bombing was a failed a national security operation that used an FBI provocateur (McVeigh) associated with a militia.
#12. To: Deckard, Buckeroo (#10)
(Edited)
The ATF was already putting out a story that the Murrah Building was bombed "because of Waco" only a few hours after the actual blast and before Tim McVeigh was even arrested.
#13. To: Liberator (#11)
It's the same case with 9/11.
#14. To: Liberator (#12)
Everyone also "knew" almost immediately McVeigh was a "Christian" and that he had been inspired by "hateful right-wing talk radio."
#15. To: buckeroo (#13)
(Edited)
Not at all [the same case as in 9/11]. The relevance is all about the Sauds destroying America in one swoop by their 19 terrorists.
#16. To: buckeroo (#14)
I want them all removed from society.
#17. To: Liberator (#15)
Well again,
#18. To: buckeroo (#9)
He was no revolutionary. He was a GODDAMNED murderer.
#19. To: TooConservative (#4)
(Edited)
These documents confirm that McVeigh was a genuine revolutionary in his intent and planning. He wasn't just a terrorist.
#20. To: rlk (#19)
There was no evidence to support Branch Davidian illegality at the time.
#21. To: TooConservative (#20)
#22. To: Deckard (#10)
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#23. To: Fred Mertz (#21)
Who is they?
#24. To: Liberator (#6)
I guess this is an open and shut case.
#25. To: Deckard (#10)
(Edited)
4. The ATF was already putting out a story that the Murrah Building was bombed "because of Waco" only a few hours after the actual blast and before Tim McVeigh was even arrested.
#26. To: TooConservative (#20)
(Edited)
There was enough to indict and arrest David Koresh for sex crimes involving children.
#27. To: rlk (#26)
The entire sequence of events smelled of fabrication of evidence and deviance from established standards of justice/legal proceedure.
#28. To: TooConservative (#20)
There was enough to indict and arrest David Koresh for sex crimes involving children.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#29. To: Deckard (#28)
The child abuse and sexual abuse claims have been widely circulated in the press coverage though it is often difficult to separate the purported claims from the evidence.[13] Koresh's doctrine of the House of David[14] did lead to spiritual marriages with both married and single women in the group and with at least one underage girl. The underage girl was Michelle Jones, the younger sister of Koresh's legal wife Rachel and the daughter of lifelong Branch Davidians Perry and Mary Belle Jones. Koresh took Michelle as a spiritual wife when she was thirteen, evidently with the consent of the Joneses. This means Koresh was in violation of state law and could have been prosecuted for statutory rape in Texas. A six-month investigation of child abuse allegations by the Texas Child Protection Services in 1992 failed to turn up any evidence, most likely because the Branch Davidians concealed the spiritual marriage of Koresh to Michelle Jones, assigning a surrogate husband (David Thibodeau) to the girl for the sake of appearances.[15] A second allegation involved an underage girl, Kiri Jewell, who testified in the Congressional hearings on Waco in 1995. She claimed that, beginning from when she was ten years old, Koresh forced her to perform sexual acts.
#30. To: TooConservative (#29)
Kiri Jewell, who testified in the Congressional hearings on Waco in 1995. She claimed that, beginning from when she was ten years old, Koresh forced her to perform sexual acts.
Kiri Jewell, now 22 and a Michigan college student, told ABC's PrimeTime Thursday. "He never was very specific but at some point, we were gonna have to die for him. I didn't expect to live past 12."
Kiri Jewell is a liar. She didn't think that she was going to live past 12 but told a nation-wide audience, during an interview on the Donahue show in 1995, that she expected to be Howell's wife when she turned 13.
The article is timed perfectly and is meant to bolster the nonsense the government has been peddling. Some of us reflect on Waco during this time of year and here's another pack of lies to greet the masses with more of the "he asked for it" kind of reporting we've come to expect.. For starters, Kiri Jewell is now 22 and attending college. Is she still a child as the headline suggests?
There's nothing more cynical (or abusive) than using children for this purpose. But they used Kiri once before and to devastating effect.
(Kiri Jewell’s testimony was) more appropriate for ‘Oprah’ than a Congressional committee....” — David Rosenbaum, Times, 7/23]
Exactly. Jewell, who's father had been through a messy divorce, paraded Jewell through the halls of "justice" to provide prurient testimony that was, to some of us watching, clearly scripted and clearly sensationalized. After killing men, women and children, the government was now using the children who survived as pawns in a disgusting game of CYA.
The sole reason that Kiri Jewell was paraded in front of Congress was to protect the ATF and FBI. Child abuse allegations were completely off-topic for the Congressional hearings and in fact had nothing to do with the issue at all. Neither the ATF nor the FBI ever filed charges alleging child-abuse and neither enforce such laws. “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#31. To: Deckard (#30)
Ten Years After: Children still being used as human shields
#32. To: TooConservative (#31)
Would you want your young teen daughter living at Mount Carmel with Koresh?
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#33. To: TooConservative (#29)
(Edited)
Wiki:
#34. To: rlk (#33)
for the person involved (who's name I can't remember)
#35. To: buckeroo (#17)
McVeigh was a terrorist. He was a GODDAMNED murderer.
#36. To: All (#33)
#37. To: TooConservative, buckeroo, Deckard (#18)
I never said he wasn't a murderer.
#38. To: rlk, TooConservative, buckeroo, Deckard (#36)
The entire mess reeked from perversion and obstruction of justice from beginning to end.
#39. To: TooConservative (#31)
Would you want your young teen daughter living at Mount Carmel with Koresh? I don't think so.
#40. To: TooConservative, Deckard (#29)
Yes, they could have arrested and successfully prosecuted Koresh for sex charges. But they wanted the full raid on the cult HQ for their anti-gun agenda.
#41. To: Percy Misanthrope (#24)
The Patriot Militia, Inc.
#42. To: Liberator (#37)
(Edited)
Any mental health clinician with knowledge of McVeigh history knew he was mentally ill to begin with and obviously harbored symptoms of a sociopath who held a vendetta against authoritah.
Within hours of the bombing, the New York Daily News Reported, some rescue workers were stopped from searching for survivors while federal officials removed boxes of documents. 40 to 50 federal agents spent much of the night carrying boxes from the floors occupied by the federal DEA and BATF while federal officials began limiting the number of rescue workers in the building to a dozen, confining them largely to the lower right side of the battered structure. Were these the same files withheld during the trial? Could these files have established either McVeigh's innocence or the fact that he was not working alone? “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#43. To: Deckard (#42)
It wouldn't be a stretch to surmise that he may have been "programmed".
"He didn't really carry himself like he came out of the military," said Mele. "He didn't stand tall with his shoulders back. He kind of slumped over." She recalled him as silent, expressionless, with lightless eyes, but subject to explosive fits of temper. "That guy didn't have an expression 99 percent of the time," added Mele. "He was cold."
#44. To: Deckard (#42)
#45. To: Deckard (#42)
It wouldn't be a stretch to surmise that he may have been "programmed".
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