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Title: St. Louis Police Just Shot Man Who Was Talking About ‘Revolution’
Source:
Counter Current News
URL Source: http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/ ... -was-talking-about-revolution/
Published: Apr 19, 2015
Author: Counter Current News
Post Date: 2015-04-19 17:55:20 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 3772
Comments: 34
Another African American man has been shot and killed by Missouri police officers even though he was not attacking anyone, and had no firearm of any kind. This happened in the midst of ongoing protests all over the nation, and especially in Ferguson and St. Louis, regarding police shootings of African American men. This case has already been justified by the police who said that Thaddeus McCarroll, 23, “had a knife.” But McCarroll was locked in his mother’s house, and he was no threat to officers. Instead, his mother called the police when she said her son had been “talking about revolution” and locked himself in the house. Instead of showing up and getting him help, officers in the St. Louis suburb shot and killed him. McCarroll’s mother said she called the police to “help”. She was concerned about her son, but she never thought police would show up and kill him, reports from the scene stated. She added that she had explained the situation to the officers who arrived, but instead of bringing in specialists who could deal with potential issues that McCarroll might have been facing, within minutes they surrounded the house and escalated things. When McCarroll emerged from the house, he was seen with a Bible and a knife. Police wasted no time opening fire on him, even though he had not attacked anyone, nor issued any threats. It is quite possible that he was in a state of distress and was suicidal. The fact that he had not threatened anyone would seem to indicate that even further. The St. Louis County police department says that they have already placed the officers who opened fire on McCarroll on paid administrative leave. They tell us that they are “investigating the incident.” St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar stated that, “This is another tragic situation where police officers had no other option but to use deadly force against an armed subject.” Meanwhile, the St. Louis police are leaning heavily on the statement from McCarroll’s mother that he had recently “spoken about revolution.” Can you see where they’re going with this yet?
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
When are people going to learn that calling the cops often results in your loved ones getting killed?
This was no quick, undocumented incident. His mommy called the police, told them that he was acting strange, and was armed with several knives and a Samurai sword. She stated she wanted him out of her house... He refused to leave for responding units. They surrounded the house and he stayed in the house, being seen often with the sword in front of the windows. After quite some time, a negotiator arrived and after several hours of every Ferguson zoo animal recording the incident with their free O'bunghole phones, he finally exited the house armed with a knife. Repeated commends to drop the knife were ignored while the armed zoo animal walked closer to officers. He was shot with a non-lethal round (to get him to drop the knife)... and that had the opposite effect. The armed zoo animal then rushed towards the officer that shot him with the non lethal round, still holding the knife... and he was shot several times by two officers that he ran toward. All well documented. All the choices were the zoo animals.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Isn't this where officers are supposed to use the Taser? They should have made the attempt before firearms were used. Cops are too Taser-happy these days but I have no objections if they tase anyone holding a weapon. By the time they told him twice to drop the knife, they should have tased him. And he would be in custody now, not a casket.
This is How Good Cops Act: Heroic Officer Refuses to Shoot Man Despite Dangerous Confrontation
On a crazy person running at you with a knife? Uh, no.
Often? Perhaps you can clarify that statement for me? Out of all the calls to police asking for help, what percentage of them, would you say, result in loved ones getting killed?
If they had time to issue several orders to drop the knife before shooting him, they had time to prepare the taser. And they fired a rubber bullet at him which caused him to charge, perhaps intending suicide-by-cop. That indicates they probably could have used one or more Tasers to bring him down instead. But when he charged them after taking a rubber bullet to the leg, apparently the only thing they could do was shoot him with a full-auto machine gun. The rubber bullet guy should have been using a Taser. And the use of a machine gun on a nutjob with a Bible and knife seems pretty extreme. This was multiple cops in the immediate area. They had options here that a lone officer would not. If they had better training or on-site supervision, this nutjob would probably still be alive. And the cops would be better off for not having had to kill another human being. That can have serious emotional repercussions, even if a shooting if fully justified. Killing someone isn't a casual thing except to psychopaths. Now the city will likely end up getting sued and will have some payout.
What percentage do you think is acceptable?
Actually, the training block that I went through suggested that officers not tase knife holders... for fear they will fall on the weapon and the family will sue as the cause of death. I was trained in taser around 2011. My department was one of the last departments to buy them due to budget restrictions. Them suckers are 3 times the cost of a Glock. Page 5 of the taser PDF Manuel specially lists not taking people holding edged weapons.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
So it's better to shoot them with a firearm instead? I can understand not tasing someone who is holding an edged weapon who is being rude or unruly (which is never a reason to tase anyway). But if it's a life threatening situation, tasing can certainly be the less lethal option. Seems the liability concern in the manual is based on the idea that if a cop tases, it's assumed it was not a life threatening situation, so if the target cuts himself and dies, then it's a wrongful death. But if instead the cop pulls a gun and shoots, then it's assumed that death was an acceptable outcome so it works better for the police liability-wise. So it's the lawyers who are dictating the rules on when to tase and when to shoot, whichever best serves the interests of the police dept instead of the best interests of the people the police are supposed to be serving.
You've gotta be kidding. How often does that happen in real life? OTOH, if you use that as an excuse not to tase, you're going to shoot and they'll end up dead or seriously wounded anyway and lawsuits will be pretty likely. That policy makes no sense to me from any angle.
Here's the problem. If I'm trained not to tase an edged weapon holder, and I do, and they fall to the ground on the knife and die, it's a slam dunk EASY lawsuit against me... and the department is gonna leave me swinging and say I was trained otherwise. If I just wait until the edge weapon holder gets close enough to be a threat and I ventilate his chest with my Glock... I'm relatively safe from lawsuit and my department will have to stand behind me because I followed the correct use of force continuum... by the book and per policy. I tried telling you all as far back as LP that all the things you dislike about what police have evolved to is based on LIABILTY LAWSUITS. Large settlements have caused a widespread change in our society today.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Most law enforcement officers, at some point or another, are named as a defendant in a lawsuit. As such, they need to be better equipped to handle it, limiting not only their liability, but the department’s liability. The Maryland Police and Correctional Training Commission (MPCTC) provides a two-week training course that is mandated by statute for all police officers who are newly promoted to either first-line supervisor (corporal and sergeants) or as an administrator (lieutenant and captains). As a former lieutenant with the Maryland State Police, I taught the module on risk management, which focused on how police officers can limit their exposure to lawsuits. Law enforcement is a tough career as an officer not only has to protect and serve, but must do so within the confines of the law. Often, an officer will need to make a split-second decision; if the decision does not stay within the parameters of statutes, case law, department rules and regulations, then the consequences for the officer can be dire. The result can be a civil lawsuit, criminal charges, and/or administrative charges against the officer. In addition, the officer’s department as well as the officer’s chain of command can face civil liability based on an officer’s action or inaction. Departments attempt to minimize their exposure to civil lawsuits as most plaintiffs seek monetary damages. Since police departments are governmental agencies, citizens view them as having deep pockets. One of the problems with civil lawsuits is the burden of proof. In civil cases, the burden of proof is the preponderance of evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. The preponderance of evidence standard can be viewed as a scale; if one side is tilted, however slightly, then the standard is met. Life, liberty, and property rights are the biggest risks facing officers when they are performing their job. Violating any of these constitutional rights can result in not only the officer and department potentially being sued civilly, but also in criminal and/or administrative charges against an officer. With this is mind, officers need to understand and be able to apply the law in high-risk situations, keeping themselves and the public safe while ensuring that they protect the constitutional rights of the individuals involved. An officer can be liable in two ways: An officer is not liable if he or she: Some examples include: Anyone can file a lawsuit and there is always the possibility that an officer will be sued. The best defense for an officer is to adhere to the law. “I didn’t know” is not a defense.
A PD can choose its own policy and training. City councils can weigh in on policy review as well. And if you're already trained to use handguns, Tasers, rifles and machine guns, then it is only a matter of emphasizing more use of a Taser. It seems from the accounts I've seen that at least a half-dozen cops were very close to the suspect. At least two should have been trying to tase this guy. Let me just say that very few people will agree that cops should ever escalate from a single rubber bullet to 30 rounds shot from a machine gun against some druggy and/or religious lunatic, even if he has a knife. If you have time to tell him to drop the knife a couple of times and have the time to fire off a rubber bullet and several more seconds before unloading a 30-round magazine with a machine gun, then you have time to tase him. You seem to take machine-gunning a civilian with only a knife very casually. How often did your own PD machine-gun any civilians? Is this really that common? It's a little shocking to see a civilian machine-gunned like that.
If you unload a 30-round magazine into anyone, that's pretty much an execution, not an arrest. He should have been arrested and read his rights, not machine-gunned. Look at that video, listen for the commands, the single shot, the machine gun. What, the cop was such a bad shot that he couldn't have squeezed off a few torso shots at 30' or less? He just had to flip on the full-auto and unload an entire magazine into a crazed/drugged civilian?
I was lucky. 20 years with a clean file and not one lawsuit... but I did everything by the book, regardless if it upset the natives. I wasn't gonna lose my home for anyone.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
They can write their own policy... but Taser itself does not recommend use on a edged weapon holder... no department will rewrite that.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Officers are trained to shoot until the threat has ended. That's basic academy 101...if there are several officers aiming at him... he's gonna be shot A LOT.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
It's easy for you to watch the video and Monday morning quarterback this on line... from the safety of your PC.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
It IS?? But...couldn't those 30 rounds just be construed as a "strongly worded warning"? ;-) He should have been arrested and read his rights, not machine-gunned. Yup. The way this case was handled was indefensible. This was...cold-blooded murder. Heads should roll.
There was no threat here to begin with, as happens in most of the cases where a blood thirsty cop shoots an unarmed citizen. That 's the problem with the cop system - all an officer has to say are the magic words "I feared for my safety" and voila, he is legally allowed to use whatever force he wants. Doesn't matter if it's a child, a dog or a kitten - the magic words are a get out of jail free card.
He was shot with a non-lethal round (to get him to drop the knife)... and that had the opposite effect. The armed zoo animal then rushed towards the officer that shot him with the non lethal round, still holding the knife... and he was shot several times by two officers that he ran toward. Still didn't warrant pumping the chamber until it was empty. The choices weren't: a) KILL HIM b) KILL HIM They should have had the training, man power and means to take this guy down without making him Swiss cheese. "No muss, no fuss" can't apply in this case.
Any person within 20 feet holding an edged weapon should be considered a deadly threat.... whether you sense that threat from your computer screen or not
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
....by any cowardly badged thug. These pricks gunned the guy down with automatic weapon fire like they were in Iraq or something.
It's always so much more heroic to gamble with another mans safety, eh, Huey? You must be the toughest anarchist you know. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
It was one officer who used an assault rifle in full auto mode. He was machine-gunned, apparently by a single officer.
You're right. What wuz I thinking? ‹/sarcasm›
Thank you. I do make it all look so easy. Just a God-given talent.
And a jury of his peers or that officer facing the threat should have the only say as to if his actions were proper. Like I said, this knife & bible carrying stellar human being held all the cards...
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Hey, I'm just asking you to clarify "often".
ALL the cards?? Chyeah. The guy was holding a pair of weak ducks. Lol. BLAM!! (x30)
Oxford:
Rule # 1.... don't ever bring a knife and bible to a gun fight. Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
http://abcnews.go.com/US/body-camera-captures-st-louis-police-shooting-knife/story?id=30410808 "My officers took every precaution to safely resolve this situation, starting with over an hour long attempt at negotiations with the subject," Belmar continued. "The officers resorted to less lethal force to try and bring the incident to a safe conclusion with no loss of life, but this individual made the decision to refuse these attempts, and charge at officers with a deadly weapon."
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
#2. To: TooConservative (#1)
(Edited)
When are people going to learn that calling the cops often results in your loved ones getting killed?
#3. To: GrandIsland (#2)
(Edited)
Repeated commends to drop the knife were ignored while the armed zoo animal walked closer to officers. He was shot with a non-lethal round (to get him to drop the knife)... and that had the opposite effect. The armed zoo animal then rushed towards the officer that shot him with the non lethal round, still holding the knife... and he was shot several times by two officers that he ran toward.
#4. To: GrandIsland, TooConservative (#2)
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#5. To: TooConservative (#3)
"Isn't this where officers are supposed to use the Taser?"
#6. To: TooConservative (#1)
"When are people going to learn that calling the cops often results in your loved ones getting killed?"
#7. To: misterwhite, GrandIsland (#5)
On a crazy person running at you with a knife?
#8. To: misterwhite (#6)
Out of all the calls to police asking for help, what percentage of them, would you say, result in loved ones getting killed?
#9. To: TooConservative (#3)
(Edited)
#10. To: GrandIsland (#9)
Actually, the training block that I went through suggested that officers not tase knife holders... for fear they will fall on the weapon and the family will sue as the cause of death.
#11. To: GrandIsland (#9)
Actually, the training block that I went through suggested that officers not tase knife holders... for fear they will fall on the weapon and the family will sue as the cause of death.
#12. To: TooConservative (#11)
(Edited)
OTOH, if you use that as an excuse not to tase, you're going to shoot and they'll end up dead or seriously wounded anyway and lawsuits will be pretty likely.
#13. To: GrandIsland, TooConservative (#12)
I tried telling you all as far back as LP that all the things you dislike about what police have evolved to is based on LIABILTY LAWSUITS. Large settlements have caused a widespread change in our society today.
What Legal Issues Should Law Enforcement Know About?
#14. To: GrandIsland, Deckard (#12)
Here's the problem. If I'm trained not to tase an edged weapon holder, and I do, and they fall to the ground on the knife and die, it's a slam dunk EASY lawsuit against me... and the department is gonna leave me swinging and say I was trained otherwise. If I just wait until the edge weapon holder gets close enough to be a threat and I ventilate his chest with my Glock... I'm relatively safe from lawsuit and my department will have to stand behind me because I followed the correct use of force continuum... by the book and per policy.
#15. To: Gatlin, Liberator (#13)
An officer can be liable in two ways:
#16. To: Gatlin (#13)
Most law enforcement officers, at some point or another, are named as a defendant in a lawsuit. As such, they need to be better equipped to handle it, limiting not only their liability, but the department’s liability.
#17. To: TooConservative (#14)
A PD can choose its own policy and training. City councils can weigh in on policy review as well.
#18. To: TooConservative (#15)
What, the cop was such a bad shot that he couldn't have squeezed off a few torso shots at 30' or less? He just had to flip on the full-auto and unload an entire magazine into a crazed/drugged civilian?
#19. To: TooConservative (#14)
If you have time to tell him to drop the knife a couple of times and have the time to fire off a rubber bullet and several more seconds before unloading a 30-round magazine with a machine gun, then you have time to tase him.
#20. To: TooConservative, Gatlin (#15)
If you unload a 30-round magazine into anyone, that's pretty much an execution, not an arrest.
#21. To: GrandIsland (#18)
(Edited)
Officers are trained to shoot until the threat has ended.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#22. To: GrandIsland (#2)
Repeated commends to drop the knife were ignored while the armed zoo animal walked closer to officers.
#23. To: Deckard (#21)
There was no threat here to begin with, as happens in most of the cases where a blood thirsty cop shoots an unarmed citizen.
#24. To: GrandIsland (#23)
(Edited)
Any person within 20 feet holding an edged weapon should be considered a deadly threat...
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#25. To: Deckard (#24)
(Edited)
These pricks gunned the guy down with automatic weapon fire like they were in Iraq or something.
#26. To: GrandIsland (#18)
Officers are trained to shoot until the threat has ended. That's basic academy 101...if there are several officers aiming at him... he's gonna be shot A LOT.
#27. To: Liberator (#20)
It IS?? But...couldn't those 30 rounds just be construed as a "strongly worded warning"?
#28. To: GrandIsland (#19)
It's easy for you to watch the video and Monday morning quarterback this on line... from the safety of your PC.
#29. To: TooConservative (#26)
(Edited)
#30. To: TooConservative (#8)
"What percentage do you think is acceptable?"
#31. To: GrandIsland (#29)
(Edited)
This knife & bible carrying stellar human being held all the cards...
#32. To: misterwhite (#30)
Hey, I'm just asking you to clarify "often".
often | adverb (oftener, oftenest)
• frequently; many times: he often goes for long walks by himself |
how often do you have your hair cut?
• in many instances: vocabulary often reflects social standing.
#33. To: Liberator (#31)
ALL the cards?? Chyeah. The guy was holding a pair of weak ducks. Lol. BLAM!! (x30)
#34. To: Deckard (#24)
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