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Title: I RECANT.
Source:
Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468
Published: Apr 5, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 58662
Comments: 178
I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions. In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it. I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post. Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions. So, here we go: 1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture. That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7) For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful. 2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible. The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST. Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order. So, there you have it. I RECANT.
Poster Comment: I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again? I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16.
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#23. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter (#17)
You make a number of valid points, Vic. Historically, philosophically, factually. The word of Jesus is true.
Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up." Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures. Interesting discussion here dealing with the end times and rapture. On a similar note, has anyone here been watching the series "Dig" on USA Network?.
Who are you or me or anyone to contend with Almighty and say He is not able to graft in Israelites again through their Messiah Yeshua? Interesting. And so are the times we live in....and still to come.
Isaiah 11 says different.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
"Dig"? What's it about? Btw, I'll bookmark your link. The beginning sounds reasonable. The rest appears to cover quite a bit of fascinating ground. But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?
You make jokes, however I pointed out the word 'caught up' is clearly in Scriptures.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us. The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions. His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities.
Basically, it's about an FBI agent who is based in Jerusalem and discovers a plot that dates back 2000 years while investigating a murder. The main premise is that there is a conspiracy involving various groups working as one to rebuild the Temple in order to bring about WW 3. Here's a link where you can watch online. It's kind of slow paced at times, and not entirely Biblical, but nonetheless pretty interesting.
I can absolutely buy that deception. I can definitely imagine the scenario you've envisioned. People are desperate to be "saved" by anyone, anything other than Jesus Christ and God. Especially aliens. You've no doubt noted the obsession by TV and movies of alien supernatural power, zombies, and magic themes? The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions. That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil. His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities. Aliens = demons. My belief as well. That the UFOs are actual physical contraptions....They could also be mirages and a trick upon open minds. Btw, been listening to you link....thanks.
Interesting premise for those who are a little patient...looks intelligent and challenging.
His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us. I can absolutely buy that deception. I can definitely imagine the scenario you've envisioned. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil. Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?' Seems to fit:)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us. I can absolutely buy that deception. I can definitely imagine the scenario you've envisioned. That is actually the majority/consensus eastern Orthodox position as well. http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/alien_abduct.aspx Alien Abductions and the Orthodox Christian by Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna It is worthy of note that the late Father Seraphim Rose, in his book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future (Platina, CA: Saint Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990; Revised Edition), has also examined the phenomenon of alien visitations to earth from an Orthodox standpoint. He devotes an entire chapter of this work, "‘Signs from Heaven:’ An Orthodox Christian Understanding of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)," to the true nature and meaning of alien contacts with human beings. Though Father Seraphim, at a superficial level, approaches this matter in a way reminiscent of Protestant fundamentalistic thinking, and while his materials are dated and center only on more sensationalistic abduction reports—deficits compounded by the fact that some of the authorities whom he cites are clearly on the fringes of science—, his deeper analysis of the phenomenon is ingenious and supports much of what I have suggested about alien encounters with humans. He also observes that the aliens in contemporary abduction reports are similar in appearance to the demons which, for centuries, have been described in Orthodox literature (p. 134). In fact, he recounts two cases of demonic "kidnappings" in fifteenth- and nineteenth-century Russia that, in Father Seraphim’s words, are "quite close to UFO ‘abductions’" today (pp. 136-137). It is his conclusion that classical demonic possession, known to the Orthodox Church for centuries, accounts for the alien abductions that we see in modern times and that "...modern men, for all their proud ‘enlightenment’ and ‘wisdom,’ are becoming once more aware of such experiences—but no longer have the Christian framework with which to explain them" (p. 137). This conclusion perfectly reflects what I have said about alien abductions and how they should be understood and viewed by the Orthodox Christian. From Orthodox Tradition, Vol. XIV, No. 1, pp. 57-62.
[...] Proponents of the doctrine of a pre-Tribulation Rapture claim that it rests on Scripture and has always been a part of Christian teaching. The truth is that it dates from about 1830 and was largely the creation of John Nelson Darby, a one-time Anglican priest and founder of a sect called the Plymouth Brethren. He contributed much to the dispensationalist scheme, and in particular he was the first to include the Rapture among the catalogue of phenomena of the last times. The Rapture’s recent origin is one of the things which should make us skeptical. Neither the Apostles nor the Fathers expounded any such teaching (nor, for that matter, did any of the notorious heretics of the past). Even Darby’s circle, although they claimed to find support for their teaching in the Bible, did not maintain that they had arrived at this doctrine through study of the Scriptures, but that they had received it through a revelation. According to its supporters the pre-Tribulation Rapture is an extremely important part of the Christian message. Yet it was unknown before 1830. The Rapture’s supporters derive their opinions ultimately from a single Scripture verse [...] When we look at verse 17 in context, it is easy to see that is does not really support the doctrine of the Rapture. There is no reference to a Great Tribulation or to any other events preceding Christ’s Return. The verse refers to something that will happen as part of the Lord’s Coming. The course of events St. Paul presents is simple and straight-forward. At the time of the Second Coming, the dead will be raised, and all the faithful (the dead now restored and those still alive now transfigured) will ascend to be with Him as He comes down. This is the universal interpretation of the Fathers who see the verse as referring to the last days. [...]
Thanks for the propaganda. Please explain how 'harpazo' does not show up in the Greek? It's there. If you were paying attention to my posts, you would not have posted what you did.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Huh? Did I say anything about "harpazo"? BTW the word in Greek is arpagisometha.
Which means...exactly what I posted earlier 'caught up' or 'taken away.' The same use as in Acts 8:39. harpazo (transliteration) I. to seize, carry off by force II. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly III. to snatch out or away harpazM Tense: Second Future Voice: Passive Mood: Indicative * The Second Future Passive Indicative verb form occurs 26 times in the New Testament.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
BTW the word in Greek is arpagisometha. Which means...exactly what I posted earlier 'caught up' or 'taken away.' The same use as in Acts 8:39. harpazo (transliteration) I. to seize, carry off by force II. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly III. to snatch out or away harpazM Tense: Second Future Voice: Passive Mood: Indicative * The Second Future Passive Indicative verb form occurs 26 times in the New Testament. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3) The Greeks, who speak and read Greek, having been Greek and Christian for 2 milleniums never read these Greek lines and came up with the Rapture theory until some Protestant Englishman understood it that way.
I guess English reading comprehension not withstanding. We were discussing the claim "Rapture is not in the Bible" statements of others. Yes it is. I don't care who Darby is (he was Irish BTW) or any theories. I was addressing the term 'rapture' (English) is the 'caught up' of 'harpazo.'
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
This is from Chuck Baldwin's recent piece on Rand Paul, the section entitled "*Rand’s recent homage to Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli lobby".... -------------------- This is another area where Rand’s father, Ron, was never willing to compromise. Ron had a constitutionally-correct understanding of America’s relationship with Israel and other Middle Eastern nations. And due to the constitutional ignorance (and scriptural misinterpretation regarding the modern state of Israel, thanks mostly to preachers such as John Hagee) of most Christian conservatives, it was this issue that most alienated many of them from Ron’s presidential campaigns. Doubtless, Rand is trying to circumvent that potential opposition from within the conservative Christian community by showing them, “See, I am not my father.” Noted political researcher and analyst Joel Skousen put this in perspective recently, saying, “Rand Paul has the same problem [as Ted Cruz]. He’s decided that he can’t get ahead in politics without being a yes-man to the Israeli lobby, and so he takes his pilgrimage to Israel, meets with Netanyahu and other politically connected Israelis and pledges to stand with Israel. The problem with that position, as I’ve explained many times in the WAB [World Affairs Brief], is that Israel’s leaders are all compromised globalists (especially Netanyahu) so Christians have to learn to separate their allegiance to God’s promises of restoring the house of Israel to their homeland and the aggressive globalist policies of the Israeli government.” Amen! What most Christian conservatives don’t seem to understand is that Ron Paul’s position on Israel (and other foreign nations) is actually the best policy to help the people of the Middle East (including Israelis) that the United States could possibly have. The neocon, pro-war, New World Order (NWO) policies that began under George H.W. Bush, and that continue to the present, are the most destructive policies in the entire world at present. The entire world (including the United States and Israel) are suffering (and will suffer) incalculable tragedy at the hands of these wicked globalists if they are not soon deterred. How tragic that Christian conservatives--who sincerely believe they are being a blessing to Israel by supporting a neocon foreign policy agenda--are actually assisting Israel and America’s worst enemies. And, once again, no other presidential candidate from either party will potentially do anything to challenge the neocon, NWO agenda. If Rand Paul doesn’t do it, no other Republican or Democrat presidential candidate will. Obviously, it is too early for me to actually endorse a presidential candidate. I am willing to say that, at this juncture, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are the two men who seem to stand out. But, since Ted Cruz’s foreign policy is in lockstep with the neocon agenda, and IF Rand Paul can continue to demonstrate a genuine commitment to oppose a neocon foreign policy, he would definitely have a leg up in my book. ......
No relation to the Israel of the Bible. Yup. I recanted of these two items years ago. There might be hope for Chuckie yet!
Da comrade. The government should nationalize the entire financial sector because when it comes to TOO BIG TO FAIL, big government has the monopoly. /s
Try 1917
The term has a specific meaning and it is based on Darby's thesis. No Greek ever read the line or lines in question and thought they would be blinked up or flown up into heaven while alive before the anti-christ comes. The Greek Fathers actually talk about being on earth to endure the torture of the anti- christ as being something to prepare as a way to test the believer for his worthiness to be in heaven.
[...] it is possible to trace the development and transmission of these ideas right back to John Nelson Darby. John Nelson Darby has been called the “father or dispensationalism.” While he was not the first to explicate the idea of dispensationalism, it was he who expanded on and developed the complicated theory of salvation history, which identifies a series of epochs following one another in a linear fashion. He was also the first to solidify the concept of the rapture of the church, based on 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Darby had significant influence on Cyrus Scofield’s beliefs during the Bible Prophecy Conference movement throughout North America at the end of the nineteenth century, and there is no doubt that Scofield borrowed copiously from Darby while writing his annotated Reference Bible. Where does the trail lead from there? Scofield became a close friend and colleague of Lewis Chafer, who went on to found the Evangelical Theological College, which would eventually become the Dallas Theological Seminary. Chafer taught at Dwight L. Moody’s Northfield School in Massachusetts from 1902-1910. During this time, he came into contact with Scofield, who, fresh from the Bible Prophecy Conference movement of the late 1800s, encouraged Chafer’s development as a theologian and preacher. Chafer explicates in an article in Sunday School Times, published in March, 1923, that Scofield was profoundly instrumental in his adoption of his dispensationalism. In 1924 Chafer, founded the Evangelical Theological College. In 1936 it underwent a name-change to become Dallas Theological Seminary and Graduate School of Theology, finally becoming simply the Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS) in 1969. Its first students were a small group of only thirteen that were taught under the guidance of Chafer, who presided over the school from 1924 until 1952, at which point John Walvoord took over as president. Walvoord and Chafer were like-minded colleagues that shared many similar ideas. In 1926, Chafer wrote one of his most significant publications, Major Bible Themes, of which Walvoord revised and updated in 1974. During Walvoord’s presidency at DTS, who else but Hal Lindsey attended the institute, and it was here, under the direction of Walvoord and his staff that Lindsey solidified his pretribulational, premillennial dispensationalism. The final link in this chain is Tim LaHaye. While LaHaye never credits Lindsey for any of his ideas, it is clear that he has relied on large parts of The Late Great Planet Earth for his writing of Left Behind. While reading The Late Great Planet Earth, there are clear similarities between the two authors’ work: from Lindsey’s account of modern warfare during the Tribulations and LaHaye’s description of World War Three, to the words of LaHaye’s main protagonist, Rayford Steel, on his learning of his wife’s disappearance in the rapture – “Rayford had to direct people to the Bible… he had begun taking [his wife’s] Bible everywhere he went, reading it wherever possible;” compared with Lindsey’s, “I’m going to find myself a Bible and read those very verses my wife underlined. I wouldn’t listen to her when she was here…” Compare Lindsey’s account of a football game, “It was the last quarter of the championship game…only one minute to go and they fumbled – our quarterback recovered…when – zap – no more quarterback – completely gone, just like that!” with LaHaye’s soccer game, “most of the spectators and all but one of the players disappeared in the middle of play, leaving their shoes and uniforms on the ground.” Though these similarities may seem coincidental, when reading the two books simultaneously, the parallels between the books are striking, especially in the depictions of the events that occur during the Tribulations. Although neither Lindsey nor LaHaye ever explicitly deny that their ideas stem from this tradition, they are both self-deceived in their belief that the ideas they profess are merely interpretations of “the plain sense” of the biblical text. [...] https://dunedinschool.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/j-n-darbys-end-times-family/
I do not think that these pastors were committing fraud. They just trusted and believed their teachers or friends, so they developed and spread a mistaken doctrine over a few generations.
www.youtube.com/embed/QqpUoivzvv8 Pax Vobiscum.
Sort of like the Muslim factions And the Arab Factions And the Zionist factions etc Useful Idiots all -- in the service of kleptocratic vampira who are draining the Idiot's blood into military industrial profits.
Nope More like a cult of Ba'alfourian energizer Ishtar bunnies.
Didn't Dr. Ron Paul give a passing approval for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons? How is that providing stability to a region already so bloody?
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
The thesis was not the subject of the discussion. However, like over at TOS folks just like to drop their various out of context opinions. No Greek ever read the line or lines in question and thought they would be blinked up or flown up into heaven while alive before the anti-christ comes. Again, you are arguing with a premise I did not put forth. If you read my comments, I agree in principle with Baldwin. We cannot be 'dogmatic' on the timing of 1 Thes. 4:15-17. The fact is 'caught up' IS there (which Baldwin does not deny will happen) but does not say when. In an earlier post I outlined many of the theories out there. None of which were Dispensational or Darby. The fact is even for your church and the Roman church there is no magesterial infallible teaching for those verses. Having a priest opine on it is fine and I welcome the opinions, but they are not infallible authorities. The certainty we have of end times events are clearly outlined in Holy Scriptures and confirmed in the early creeds. Christ will come again, resurrection and judgment following. My point throughout has been above the aforementioned anything above and beyond the clear teachings in Holy Scriptures is the theory or speculation of man. Which means one person's or group's theory is not dogmatic. No Greek ever read the line or lines in question and thought they would be blinked up or flown up into heaven... External from Scriptures the closest we have an early church theologian addressing end times is Irenaeus: 1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance— in fact, as nothing;” Isaiah 40:15 so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 29) http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
Are you admitting you were wrong in that 'caught up' is actually in Scriptures? What does Darby et. al. have to do with the words which actually appear in the Holy Scriptures? What is your church's infallible interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
TARP was enacted before Cain made his initial comments. He was commenting on legislation that was already signed into law. And his comments were 100% correct -- the federal government saved the banks AND made a profit. Now, whether or not TARP should have been enacted to begin with is a whole different argument.
That's not necessary if the federal government would keep it's nose out of the financial sector to begin with. But when the federal government forces banks -- under the rubric of diversity and inclusiveness -- to offer sub-prime loans to otherwise unqualified buyers, I think they share the responsibility when the bank fails. Had the federal government not intruded itself, the banks would have been just fine.
In exactly the same way that the US, USSR, and Israel having nukes encourages peace, MAD (mutual assured destruction). "More guns=less crime" works at the international level too, IMO. Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you wish for peace, prepare for war).
Clearly the reading here is the Church will be caught in the tribulation like you are caught in a storm. And as you can see - to suffer at the hands of the antichrist is the last contest of the rightous - none of this stupidity of vanishing people who are good Christians so they won't have to face the tribulation time.
False prophets and anti-christs were foretold. They happen to appeal to Americans who hate the idea they will suffer for Christ. To suffer is not really an American virtue.
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#24. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#14)
As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#25. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don (#21)
I will not boast the branches were cut off so I could be grafted in. Because as Paul puts it, "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"
#26. To: Vicomte13 (#17)
It's done. Biblically. Stick a fork in it.
#27. To: Deckard (#24)
#28. To: A Pole (#19)
#29. To: Liberator (#27)
But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#30. To: Liberator (#27)
"Dig"? What's it about?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#31. To: Deckard (#29)
His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us.
#32. To: Deckard (#30)
#33. To: Liberator, Deckard (#31)
#34. To: Liberator, Deckard (#31)
The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.
#35. To: redleghunter, Liberator, Deckard, Vicomte13 (#33)
#36. To: redleghunter (#28)
#37. To: A Pole (#36)
#38. To: redleghunter (#37)
Please explain how 'harpazo' does not show up in the Greek? It's there.
#39. To: A Pole (#38)
BTW the word in Greek is arpagisometha.
#40. To: redleghunter, A Pole (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: Pericles (#40)
The Greeks, who speak and read Greek, having been Greek and Christian for 2 milleniums never read these Greek lines and came up with the Rapture theory until some Protestant Englishman understood it that way.
#42. To: redleghunter, A Pole, Vicomte13, TooConservative, BobCeleste, Don, Liberator, Deckard, Pericles, *Neo-Lib Chickenhawk Wars* (#14)
I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#43. To: neoconz, ziotard (#42)
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#44. To: hondo68 (#0)
#45. To: misterwhite (#13)
#46. To: Liberator (#22)
(Edited)
Baldwin may need to review the history of that part of the world, beginning in 1948,
#47. To: redleghunter (#41)
(Edited)
I was addressing the term 'rapture' (English) is the 'caught up' of 'harpazo.'
#48. To: Pericles (#47)
#49. To: A Pole (#48)
#50. To: VxH (#49)
#51. To: A Pole (#50)
#52. To: A Pole (#50)
They just trusted and believed their teachers or friends, so they developed and spread a mistaken doctrine over a few generations.
#53. To: hondo68 (#43)
No relation to the Israel of the Bible.
#54. To: hondo68, misterwhite, TEAparrotConservative (#10)
#55. To: hondo68 (#42)
What most Christian conservatives don’t seem to understand is that Ron Paul’s position on Israel (and other foreign nations) is actually the best policy to help the people of the Middle East (including Israelis) that the United States could possibly have.
#56. To: Pericles (#47)
The term has a specific meaning and it is based on Darby's thesis. No Greek ever read the line or lines in question and thought they would be blinked up or flown up into heaven while alive before the anti-christ comes. The Greek Fathers actually talk about being on earth to endure the torture of the anti- christ as being something to prepare as a way to test the believer for his worthiness to be in heaven.
#57. To: A Pole (#48)
#58. To: VxH (#54)
#59. To: VxH (#45)
"Da comrade. The government should nationalize the entire financial sector because when it comes to TOO BIG TO FAIL, big government has the monopoly. /s"
#60. To: redleghunter (#55)
How is that providing stability to a region already so bloody?
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#61. To: redleghunter (#56)
And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
#62. To: A Pole (#48)
it is possible to trace the development and transmission of these ideas right back to John Nelson Darby.
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