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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: I RECANT. Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468 Published: Apr 5, 2015 Author: Chuck Baldwin Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68 Keywords: None Views: 58680 Comments: 178 I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions. In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it. I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post. Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions. So, here we go: 1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture. That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7) For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful. 2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible. The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST. Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order. So, there you have it. I RECANT. Poster Comment: I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again? I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-117) not displayed.       .       .       . #118. To: Liberator (#116) (Edited) So you can't answer whether it was Lucifer or Nebuchadnezzar. Thanks for clearing that up. Don't let me interrupt your pining for the Apokeeeclypse. Carry on. VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   17:29:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #119. To: VxH (#114) Would it have been Neb. or Lucifer who fell from Heaven like a shooting star? Don  posted on  2015-04-17   17:50:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #120. To: VxH (#113) "Whose fault was it when Greenspan was advocating removing Glass-steagal?" Are you saying Glass-Steagall was responsible for the banking crisis? If not, give it a f**king rest already. misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-17   17:55:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #121. To: misterwhite (#120) (Edited) Are you saying Glass-Steagall was responsible for the banking crisis? If not, give it a f**king rest already. Are you saying the deregulation advocated by Greenspan didn't allow banks to engage in activities that resulted in the big 4 PRESENTLY holding over 200 Trillion dollars in notional derivatives? If not, then give yourself a f**king rest and try doing some actual research into the events that created the environment in which the so-called "banking" crisis transpired instead of regurgitating Lush Limbaugh's GeeOpie sound bytes. VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   19:05:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #122. To: Don (#119) Would it have been Neb. or Lucifer who fell from Heaven like a shooting star? Either, depending on which translation of Isaiah you read. King James is the only one that refers to Lucifer instead of Ne-bu-chad-nez-ZAR. ZAR/SAR being an Akkadian meme meaning Sun-prince. It's not surprising joly ol' King Jimmuh's translation would be the one to muddy the water - and draw attention away from the perch he himself was propped upon, atop the theocratic state-establishment. VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   19:12:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #123. To: Liberator (#90) Speaking at the British Science Festival in 2010, one of then-Pope Benedict XVI’s astronomers said he would baptise an alien “if they asked”. While he accepted that the chances of ever getting such an opportunity were slim, Guy Consolmagno said: “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul.” Don't worry, the Vatican is grappling with these theological issues. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-17   21:30:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #124. To: Liberator (#106) That's one thing I need to add to my bucket list is to go to Pearl and take a tour of the Missouri and sit on top of one of the 16" gun turrets. Also go to the Arizona and pay my respects to those who are still entombed. “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-04-17   21:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #125. To: Liberator, redleghunter, Vicomte13, (#104) Georgetown?? Is it still "Catholic"? Even though for President ZERO's visit they inexplicably covered up “IHS”-- symbolizing the name of Jesus Christ? And Notre Dame gave the emperor, yes, the one that advocates for late term abortion, an honorary degree. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-04-17   21:59:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #126. To: redleghunter (#117) Apparently you were among the last to attend Fordham "back in the olde days." Is Unc still around? He is home with the Lord. And a proud graduate of Manhattan College to boot! As every Jasper of that age and at least through the '60s is. Alas, Manhattan has changed much from the time I graduated in the mid-60s. It traditionally was a day school that served the lower middle class Irish and Italian kids who could not afford the higher tuition of most other private colleges/universitites or afford to board. At the time over 90% of the student body were day commuters like myself. I understand that most of the student body now are residents and that tution and board for the typical engineering student is over $50,000/year. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-04-17   22:09:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #127. To: CZ82 (#124) (Edited) Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-17   23:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #128. To: TooConservative (#127) What?? “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-04-18   9:21:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #129. To: VxH (#121) OK. So you're saying that Glass-Steagall was NOT responsible for the banking crisis but you're going to keep bringing it up anyways. Just like you're going to keep bringing up your stupid Ameriquest argument despite the FACT that they only represented a very small part of the problem. Just like you're going to keep bringing up your stupid "whiteout and scissors" argument like that was the main problem. Take your red herrings elsewhere. The government interfered with the financial market. It was only fair that they cleaned up their own mess. That they did so at a profit was simply a bonus. misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-18   10:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #130. To: CZ82 (#128) "What??" You heard him. So what's your response? misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-18   10:05:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #131. To: misterwhite (#129) (Edited) so you're saying that Glass-Steagall was NOT responsible for the banking crisis Nope.  Removing the prohibitions of Glass-Steagall absolutely was part of the problem. I'm saying go educate yourself about the systemic sewer system's plumbing before talking out of your a$$.  your stupid Ameriquest argument despite the FACT that they only represented a very small part of the problem. Country Wide, Wells Fargo, Bear Stearns, and the other predators who followed the "revolutionary" model pioneered by Roland Arnall and his merry band of Long Beach pirates evidently didn't think it was so stupid.   Ameriquest founder was subprime "godfather" Roland Arnall, founder of Orange-based Ameriquest Mortgage Co. and a "godfather of subprime lending," died Monday at age 68. Arnall, who resigned this month as U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, died "suddenly" of cancer at UCLA Medical Center, said family spokeswoman Lisa Cohen. A major contributor to Republican Party causes and President Bush's campaigns, Arnall was appointed ambassador in 2006 after Ameriquest and its affiliated companies agreed to pay $325 million - without admitting wrongdoing - to settle complaints of predatory lending by attorneys general in 49 states. Arnall built a fortune, estimated at $1.5 billion by Forbes magazine, writing loans for people with spotty credit, a type of loan later known as "subprime." ... Wall Street sold the mortgages as securities, fueling a real estate boom followed by the current bust that triggered worldwide economic turmoil, highlighted by this week's collapse of investment bank Bear Stearns Cos. ... A Jewish native of France, Arnall's family survived World War II before moving to America. Arnall sold flowers on the streets of Los Angeles and then real estate in the 1970s, before founding Long Beach Savings in 1979. That bank split into Ameriquest and a publicly traded subsidiary that sold for $350 million in 1999 to become the subprime arm of Washington Mutual. Arnall's executives founded other subprime lenders - Brea-based ResMae Mortgage Corp. and Encore Credit Corp. in Irvine....  www.ocregister.com/articl...-subprime-ameriquest.html "Oops"    Can anybody tell the class what RINO enterpise the "Progress for America Fund" paddled swiftly up the river? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   10:29:23 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #132. To: VxH (#131) "Nope. Removing the prohibitions of Glass-Steagall absolutely was part of the problem." Oh, now it's "part" of the problem? Well hell, I'll concede Ameriquest was "part" of the problem as well as "whiteout and scissors" were "part" of the problem. Glass-Steagall was repealed 10 years before the banking crisis. "Ameriquest founder was subprime "godfather" You are so desperate in your search for a boogeyman. What percentage of the subprime loans did "Godfather" Ameriquest make? Do you know? How about 10%? misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-18   10:50:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #133. To: misterwhite (#132) (Edited) >>Oh, now it's "part" of the problem?   It was always part of the problem shyte for brains.   >>What percentage of the subprime loans did "Godfather" Ameriquest make?   What percentage of subprime loans were made by those who followed the securitization model the Godfather's fraudulent enterprise invented?   starting with the emergence of subprime mortgage lending in Southern California in the 1980’s. Roland Arnall was there at the beginning, at the helm of a small federal savings bank, and Hudson’s main narrative traces how Arnall’s lending operations grew into the nation’s biggest subprime lending empire. At their peak in 2004, Ameriquest and its affiliates generated $83 billion in subprime loans—and $1.3 billion in profits. The bulk of the profits flowed through to Arnall, elevating him to #73 on the Forbes Four Hundred list of the richest Americans. He took the money and ran, becoming U.S. Ambassador to the Netherlands in early 2006. ... still, the explosive growth of subprime lenders like Ameriquest was only possible because of the big Wall Street firms that purchased their loans and packaged them into securities sold to investors. Wall Street’s quest for the generous fees gained in this process led them to be no more interested in borrowers” ability to repay their loans than were the lenders. So Hudson’s second focus is on Lehman Brothers, the biggest Wall Street backer of subprime lenders, and the picture there was no prettier than it was at Ameriquest. A Lehman executive who visited the now-infamous First American Mortgage Company (FAMCO) in the 1990s reported back that “there is something really unethical about the type of business in which FAMCO is engaged. ... [I]t is a requirement to leave your ethics at the door.” Nevertheless, Lehman eagerly sought to finance the company’s operations and buy its loans. etc. etc. http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2011/0511campen.html   >>Glass-Steagall was repealed 10 years before the banking crisis.   Long enough to inflate the bubble.       " Uhhhh, that's not ours either! " ---Weiner, Obama, Perry, Pelosi, Frank, Pritzker and Associates, LLLP.         Nudge nudge nudge...     "the explosive growth of subprime lenders like Ameriquest was only possible because of the big Wall Street firms that purchased their loans and packaged them into securities sold to investors. " Without the repeal of Glass-Steagall, that pipeline wouldn't have been open. VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   11:45:58 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #134. To: misterwhite (#130) You heard him. So what's your response? “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.â€� CZ82  posted on  2015-04-18   12:04:33 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #135. To: misterwhite (#85) (Edited) So I guess Congress learned their lesson and restored Glass-Steagall, right?   Lender Lobbying Blitz Abetted Mortgage Mess Ameriquest Pressed For Changes in Laws; A Battle in New Jersey By Glenn R. Simpson Updated Dec. 31, 2007 12:01 a.m. ET During the housing boom, the subprime industry succeeded at more than just writing mortgages. It also shot down efforts by some states to curtail risky lending to borrowers with spotty credit. Ameriquest Mortgage Co., until recently one of the nation's largest subprime lenders, was at the center of those battles. Working with a husband-and-wife team of Washington lobbyists, it handed out more than $20 million in political donations and played a big role in persuading legislators in New Jersey and Georgia to relax tough new laws. Those victories, in turn, helped blunt efforts by other states to crack down on reckless lending, critics of the industry contend. ... A close look at Ameriquest's lobbying and political donations shows how the subprime industry maneuvered to defeat legislation that might have contained some of the damage. Executives at Ameriquest, based in Orange, Calif., acknowledge that the company lobbied heavily against state lending restrictions, but say that other subprime lenders did so as well. In fact, a host of subprime lenders and banking trade groups, including Citigroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co., Countrywide Financial Corp. and the Mortgage Bankers Association, spent heavily on lobbying and political giving.... http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB119906606162358773 Do you RECANT? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   12:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #136. To: hondo68 (#0) (Edited) Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order.   A Jewish native of France, Arnall's family survived World War II before moving to America. Arnall sold flowers on the streets of Los Angeles and then real estate in the 1970s, before founding Long Beach Savings in 1979. That bank split into Ameriquest... ...Jon Daurio, who worked as Arnall's senior vice president in the 1990s, described his former boss as "one of the godfathers of subprime." He praised Arnall's philanthropy, which included support of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles ... http://www.ocregister.com/articles/arnall-15839-subprime-ameriquest.html Uhuh. IOW Arnall, the Godfather of Subprime, was a Zionist shyster POS. Hos 12:7-8 7 The merchant uses dishonest scales; he loves to defraud. 8 Ephraim boasts, "I am very rich; I have become wealthy. With all my wealth they will not find in me any iniquity or sin." NIV How is the affinity fraud, concocted by Godfather Arnall and "Focus on the Family" stooges like Jorge Bush, working out these days for the McSheeple who refied the McMansion and his and hers Escapes in the hope that they'd be Raptured off into Apokeeland before the ARM on their stated-income liar loan exploded in their face? I bet those McSheeple would like to RACANT too. Ooops! VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   12:32:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #137. To: VxH (#135) What the heck did Glass-Steagall have to do with Ameriquest? You're all over the place, throwing shit around and hoping some of it sticks someplace. misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-18   14:23:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #138. To: VxH (#122) Which version has King Neb. living in Heaven and turning into a shooting star? Don  posted on  2015-04-18   15:00:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #139. To: misterwhite (#137) What the heck did Glass-Steagall have to do with Ameriquest? LOL. What did the barriers that prevented banks from engaging in the trade of securitized instruments have to do with Ameriquest. Well GeeOpie, who do you think it was that bought all that Securitized, subprime, A$$Paper - and then went on to game it into a 220+ TRILLION dollar derivative bubble on top of the turd pond? www.occ.gov/topics/capita...ing/derivatives/dq114.pdf Hint: It wasn't Freddy/Fannie. VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   15:09:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #140. To: Don (#138) (Edited) Isa 14:12 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! KJV Lucifer the Light bearer - aka the Morning Star - symbol of the fallen king of Babylon. Who is the fallen king of Babylon? Hint: It aint the debil - it was a man, and his name was Nebuchadnezzar. http://biblehub.com/topical/naves/l/lucifer--nebuchadnezzar_called_by_this_name.htm https://www.google.com/#q=Nebuchadnezzar+or+Lucifer VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   15:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #141. To: Don (#138) (Edited) Kipling's "The man who would be king" describes the process. We might infer this was also how the Yezidi of Northern Iraq came to worship "fallen angels". http://www.google.com/#q=Yazidi%2BFallen%2BAngels A little technology can manufacture a whole lot of FRAUD among the right audience. Got Morals and Dogma? Kipling did. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mor...ttish_Rite_of_Freemasonry VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   16:03:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #142. To: VxH (#141) You are hitting all points of the map called "Skipping Around the Mayberry Bush." Don  posted on  2015-04-18   17:30:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #143. To: VxH (#140) The reference is to Satan by using a human King as a symbol. You know this already, don't you? Don  posted on  2015-04-18   17:32:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #144. To: VxH (#139) Glass-Steagall separated commercial banking and investment banking. Ameriquest was neither. It was a pure mortgage lender. I'll ask you again. What the heck did Glass-Steagall have to do with Ameriquest? "Well GeeOpie, who do you think it was that bought all that Securitized, subprime, A$$Paper - and then went on to game it into a 220+ TRILLION dollar derivative bubble on top of the turd pond?" The investment banks -- Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch. And Freddie and Fannie bought about $300 billion of mortgage-backed securities from them. misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-18   18:16:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #145. To: misterwhite (#144) (Edited) It was a pure mortgage lender. It wasn't a lender, it was an originator. Who ended up buying the securitized a$$paper from that "pure mortgage" originator? "The investment banks -- Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch. " That's right the investment bankers did -- And what does "separating commercial and investment banking" mean in relation to the down stream flow from Ameriquest/Argent Mortgage's sub-prime sewer system? "The Subprime Crisis—A Test Match For The Bankers: Glass–Steagall vs. Gramm-Leach-Bliley" www.law.upenn.edu/journal....Bus.L.1081%282010%29.pdf Were the events following the undoing of Glass-Steagall "Speculative banking"? They sure as heck were; and in fact the big 4 SPECULATORS still hold how many TRILLION dollars worth of notional, SPECULATIVE, derivatives on their books? _______TRILLION.? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   19:18:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #146. To: Don (#143) the reference is to Satan by using a human King as a symbol. You sure it isn't a reference to the temporal King for which Satan later became a substitute symbol? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   19:20:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #147. To: VxH (#146) I don't think so. Don  posted on  2015-04-18   19:35:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #148. To: Don (#147) (Edited) Well, evidently others disagree. "It is king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who embodies the great villain position of Satan in the bible. Our image of Satan is developed from the fall of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon's evil human pride. The 'Babylon has Fallen!', in the Book of Revelations, is relating to the future fall of secular world dominance in preparation for the coming of Messianic Reign. The dynasty of prideful, world dominant, God authorized, secular world powers, passing from one nation to another over time, initiated from king Nebuchadnezzar, falls at our future Battle of Armageddon. The ‘beast’, and ‘whore of Babylon’, which are cast into hell with Satan, in the future apocalypse, begin with king Nebuchadnezzar. To understand where the Satan/Babylon, who falls in the Book of Revelation is coming from, king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon is ground zero...." www.apocalypseangel.com/morningstar.html I've never been to that web site before, I just googled "is satan nebuchadnezzar".. and that happens to be at the top of the results, and also pretty much in line with my observations and conclusions. I don't buy the Appokeelyptic mumbo jumbo other than that it's a mythology that articulates the cyclical demise of human culture described in Romans 1:25+. For other mythologies regarding Fallen Angels - take a look at the Yazedi of Northern Iraq. Fallen Angels -- or FRAUDS who would be man-god-kings among the superstitious and easily deceived? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   19:50:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #149. To: VxH, liberator, A K A Stone (#148) "It is king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who embodies the great villain position of Satan in the bible. Our image of Satan is developed from the fall of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon's evil human pride. The 'Babylon has Fallen!', in the Book of Revelations, is relating to the future fall of secular world dominance in preparation for the coming of Messianic Reign. The dynasty of prideful, world dominant, God authorized, secular world powers, passing from one nation to another over time, initiated from king Nebuchadnezzar, falls at our future Battle of Armageddon. The ‘beast’, and ‘whore of Babylon’, which are cast into hell with Satan, in the future apocalypse, begin with king Nebuchadnezzar. To understand where the Satan/Babylon, who falls in the Book of Revelation is coming from, king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon is ground zero...." Wow has everything you love to write about done so succinctly. Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire:) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3) redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-18   20:00:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #150. To: redleghunter (#149) Wow has everything you love to write about done so succinctly. That's the beauty of self-evident Truth when free minded Individuals are allowed to pursue it without state-established coercion. VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   20:04:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #151. To: redleghunter (#149) (Edited) Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire:) Quack, Waddle... "The fall of Korah and his band of morning stars being cast into hell gives us the image of 'morning star', 'fallen angel' Lucifer, aka Satan, being thrust into hell. The Book of Jude refers to Korah and his band of morning stars as fallen 'angels'. " Eunuducks. Now who was Korah? "Korah, son of Izhar, son of Kohath, son of Levi [and Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, son of Pallu, son of Reuben] took two hundred and fifty Israelites who were leaders in the community, members of the council and men of note. They stood before Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD's congregation?"." Levites. What a surprise. Num 16:1-2 16 Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and certain Reubenites — Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth — became insolenta 2 and rose up against Moses. NIV   Woops there it is! VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   20:09:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #152. To: redleghunter (#149) Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire Num 16:31-35 31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the grave, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, "The earth is going to swallow us too!" 35 And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense. NIV Sort of like that? VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   21:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #153. To: Liberator (#116) Do you believe Revelation? The Gospel? Or for that matter Isaiah or ANY of the Bible? I believe you're more interesting in attacking my faith than you are in discovering the Truth. VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   21:22:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #154. To: misterwhite (#144) the investment banks -- Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch. Prior to the repeal of Glass-Steagall, were COMMERCIAL banks like Wells Fargo and BofA allowed to act like SPECULATIVE Investment banks? VxH  posted on  2015-04-19   1:15:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #155. To: Vicomte13, Liberator (#94) (Edited) Am I to understand this is your theory for the reason for the Vatican's astronomers? It's not a theory. Firstly, I hope Liberator is not confusing astronomer with astrologers. Secondly, the church always had astronomer - but not for the reasons Vic mentioned. astronomy was the only way to reliable know what day of the year it is and that is important to figure out when it is a holy day, etc. This was something all priesthoods did - Jewish Cohen, Persian Magi (who were so knowledgable the word magic comes from their predictive abilities), etc. The official time keeper of the church was the Pope of Alexandria - the modern Patriarch of Alexandria in the Orthodox church and one of his main titles in English translates to "Judge of the Universe" but that just means he is the time keeper - he states when it is Sunday, when it is Easter, etc (he judges that based on the alignment of stars). People forget that there used to be a real practical purpose to studying the movement of the planets - it was the only reliable clock. Pericles  posted on  2015-04-19   2:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #156. To: redleghunter, all (#74) Yeah sure, give those kooks a nuke. This says it all. http://www.investors.com/editorial-cartoons/michael-ramirez/748432 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? tomder55  posted on  2015-04-19   5:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #157. To: Pericles (#155) That's true, but it's not really why the pope still has an astronomer. Interestingly, Tycho Brahe's and Kepler's role at the Imperial Court in Prague was Astrologer. Astronomy was a subset of the work of the Astrologer. So, the elliptical orbits of the planets, and the marking of their exact positions that made that possible, was actually performed by ASTROLOGERS, not simply astronomers. History has some funny surprises. The fact that most of the precise recordation of planetary transits of the sun today is performed and recorded by Jesuits in various of their institutions around the world is, likewise, interesting. Liberator suggested that the day has passed when the Pope needs his own scientists, but actually, astronomical sciences today still need the Church to be doing all of this grunt work recordation of things, the steady data stream. Something else: the planets do not really orbit the sun in ellipses. Rather, the sun and the planets all corkscrew around the center of mass of the solar system, which is not usually within the disc of the Sun but outside of it, and the whole system is corkscrewing forward in space in its own orbit about other things. The elliptical model reduces in two dimensions what is in fact a three-dimensional system, and reduces the Sun to a focus of the rotation, but it isn't. Actual reality is different from the models. The models are good enough for everything that we need them for, but they ARE NOT TRUTH. Because they SEEM so precise, and are TAUGHT as the truth, people can be forgiven for believing they ARE the truth. But they are not. They're approximate models. And they're not necessarily explanatory either. This is the hard second step of realization. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-19   8:36:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (158 - 178) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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