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Title: I RECANT.
Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468
Published: Apr 5, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 66463
Comments: 178

I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions.

In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it.

I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post.

Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions.

So, here we go:

1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture.

That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7)

For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful.

2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible.

The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST.

Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order.

So, there you have it. I RECANT.


Poster Comment:

I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again?

I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 167.

#6. To: hondo68 (#0)

Chuck,

You're right about the modern state of Israel.

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all, but I'm glad that at least you no longer give it importance.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-15   8:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#6)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures. That is what he means by not being 'dogmatic.' Some theologians say 'it will happen before, during or after' some events. It is not clear and the scripture reference from Acts 1 from Baldwin is sage advice. I took that advice from Jesus Christ own words a few years ago.

Personally? All I need is the Upper Room discourse. Jesus told His followers if they love Him He will come for them.

On Israel? Who knows. Baldwin should have stopped with saying "I don't know" like he did for rapture. Because none of us do know. What do we know God will do with a multitude of 'physical' Jews/Israelites gathered in the same geographic location? We don't know. Perhaps as St Augustine believed that in the end a remnant of Jews would convert to Christ for the Glory of God.

Should we support the only democracy in the ME from a secular standpoint? Seems reasonable. Should we care for the well being of Jewish people who still need their Messiah. Yes we should. Should we side with them when they disobey the laws of God...No.

From the perspective of Baldwin I agree...One's Christian faith should not influence politically and militarily a certain secular state. If Christians truly loved the people of Messiah and His apostles, they would provide Christian based support. If the US government values a democratic partner in the ME then they should pursue the government of Israel as an ally.

I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   10:50:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: redleghunter, A Pole, Vicomte13, TooConservative, BobCeleste, Don, Liberator, Deckard, Pericles, *Neo-Lib Chickenhawk Wars* (#14)

I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.

This is from Chuck Baldwin's recent piece on Rand Paul, the section entitled "*Rand’s recent homage to Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli lobby"....

--------------------

This is another area where Rand’s father, Ron, was never willing to compromise. Ron had a constitutionally-correct understanding of America’s relationship with Israel and other Middle Eastern nations. And due to the constitutional ignorance (and scriptural misinterpretation regarding the modern state of Israel, thanks mostly to preachers such as John Hagee) of most Christian conservatives, it was this issue that most alienated many of them from Ron’s presidential campaigns. Doubtless, Rand is trying to circumvent that potential opposition from within the conservative Christian community by showing them, “See, I am not my father.”

Noted political researcher and analyst Joel Skousen put this in perspective recently, saying, “Rand Paul has the same problem [as Ted Cruz]. He’s decided that he can’t get ahead in politics without being a yes-man to the Israeli lobby, and so he takes his pilgrimage to Israel, meets with Netanyahu and other politically connected Israelis and pledges to stand with Israel. The problem with that position, as I’ve explained many times in the WAB [World Affairs Brief], is that Israel’s leaders are all compromised globalists (especially Netanyahu) so Christians have to learn to separate their allegiance to God’s promises of restoring the house of Israel to their homeland and the aggressive globalist policies of the Israeli government.” Amen!

What most Christian conservatives don’t seem to understand is that Ron Paul’s position on Israel (and other foreign nations) is actually the best policy to help the people of the Middle East (including Israelis) that the United States could possibly have. The neocon, pro-war, New World Order (NWO) policies that began under George H.W. Bush, and that continue to the present, are the most destructive policies in the entire world at present. The entire world (including the United States and Israel) are suffering (and will suffer) incalculable tragedy at the hands of these wicked globalists if they are not soon deterred. How tragic that Christian conservatives--who sincerely believe they are being a blessing to Israel by supporting a neocon foreign policy agenda--are actually assisting Israel and America’s worst enemies. And, once again, no other presidential candidate from either party will potentially do anything to challenge the neocon, NWO agenda. If Rand Paul doesn’t do it, no other Republican or Democrat presidential candidate will.

Obviously, it is too early for me to actually endorse a presidential candidate. I am willing to say that, at this juncture, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are the two men who seem to stand out. But, since Ted Cruz’s foreign policy is in lockstep with the neocon agenda, and IF Rand Paul can continue to demonstrate a genuine commitment to oppose a neocon foreign policy, he would definitely have a leg up in my book.

......

Hondo68  posted on  2015-04-15   19:17:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: hondo68 (#42)

What most Christian conservatives don’t seem to understand is that Ron Paul’s position on Israel (and other foreign nations) is actually the best policy to help the people of the Middle East (including Israelis) that the United States could possibly have.

Didn't Dr. Ron Paul give a passing approval for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons?

How is that providing stability to a region already so bloody?

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-16   9:19:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: redleghunter (#55)

How is that providing stability to a region already so bloody?

In exactly the same way that the US, USSR, and Israel having nukes encourages peace, MAD (mutual assured destruction).

"More guns=less crime" works at the international level too, IMO.

Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you wish for peace, prepare for war).

Hondo68  posted on  2015-04-16   10:33:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: hondo68, tomder55 (#60)

In exactly the same way that the US, USSR, and Israel having nukes encourages peace, MAD (mutual assured destruction).

"More guns=less crime" works at the international level too, IMO.

LOL MAD for madmen...You truly believe Iran having nukes which can reach Europe and eventually (thanks to Russian, Chinese and NK missile technology) our own nation?

Has Israel used nukes? No.

The 12er movement is in charge of Iran. Yet you see no problem giving a death cult who 'looks forward to' purging the earth with fire to usher in the Mahdi.

Amazing.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-16   11:07:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: redleghunter, hondo68, tomder55 (#63)

LOL MAD for madmen...

You truly believe Iran having nukes which can reach Europe and eventually (thanks to Russian, Chinese and NK missile technology) our own nation?

Has Israel used nukes? No.

Here's another equivalent:

Dateline 1943. By this rationale, if US had given Hitler, Tojo, and Stalin the nuke plans, would Mutually Assured Destruction have created a peaceful end to WWII?

Your simplest, greatest point:

Israel has had nukes for decades and NEVER used them -- despite the open threat of total destruction from Iran. Peace was maintained.

Allowing an insane, irrational Iran to possess nukes is the single most dangerous, insanely irrational policy move. EVER. It guarantees that IT. WILL. BE USED. As First Strikes.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-16   12:26:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Liberator (#67)

insane, irrational Iran to possess nukes is the single most dangerous, insanely irrational policy move. EVER. It guarantees that IT. WILL. BE USED.

For MAD to be mutual, the other side must have them too. M=mutual. Nations (and people) arm themselves against madmen and evil, not unicorns and rainbows. Yeah it's scary, but it's worked throughout history. It's supposed to be scary, that's why it works.

Hitler tried disarmament and it didn't work for the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, or overall either. He lost.

These Utopian disarmament schemes always end badly.

Hondo68  posted on  2015-04-16   13:28:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: hondo68, liberator, tomder55 (#71)

For MAD to be mutual, the other side must have them too. M=mutual. Nations (and people) arm themselves against madmen and evil, not unicorns and rainbows. Yeah it's scary, but it's worked throughout history. It's supposed to be scary, that's why it works.

Your version of foreign and military policy is even more destabilizing and destructive than the neo-con brand.

Here's something to think about. The Soviets understood we would not blow them up and they were not ready to irradiate themselves just to 'win' the world for universal socialism. Kind of hard to till the soil when it is riddled with PU- 249. So Russians are not crazy and Americans are not crazy. MAD worked because neither side had MADmen behind the 'button.'

Muslims, if you have not noticed, love to blow up people (and things) in market places, places of worship, schools (Russians experienced that one), and drive 747s into towers. Sure, great idea let them have nuclear weapons. A most unwise approach bordering on insanity.

Iran with a nuclear weapon and the proper delivery system? MAD? The best result, and I mean the best result, would be having nuclear weapons means they can step up terrorist activities not only regionally but globally. "Sitting on an A-Bomb" they call the shots and can breed terrorism all over the world. Secondly, Saudi Arabia and the UAE et al will not stand by and let the Shia 12er madmen be the only sons of Muhammad to have nuclear weapons. It leads to proliferation.

Before you bring up India and Pakistan, I will say Iran is nothing like India and Pakistan. Neither threaten to turn the ME into molten rubble. They only threaten to do it against each other.

Iran is run by psycho Mahdi 12ers hell bent on ushering in the Mahdi Imam so he can 'purge' the world with fire and conquer the world for Islam.

Yeah sure, give those kooks a nuke.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-16   16:53:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: redleghunter, all (#74)

Yeah sure, give those kooks a nuke.

This says it all.

http://www.investors.com/editorial-cartoons/michael-ramirez/748432

tomder55  posted on  2015-04-19   5:01:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: tomder55, liberator (#156)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-20   17:34:28 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 167.

#170. To: redleghunter (#167)

Too many people today can't think in any type of commonsense.

Don  posted on  2015-04-20 22:33:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 167.

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