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Bible Study
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Title: I RECANT.
Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468
Published: Apr 5, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 60878
Comments: 178

I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions.

In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it.

I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post.

Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions.

So, here we go:

1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture.

That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7)

For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful.

2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible.

The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST.

Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order.

So, there you have it. I RECANT.


Poster Comment:

I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again?

I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 118.

#6. To: hondo68 (#0)

Chuck,

You're right about the modern state of Israel.

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all, but I'm glad that at least you no longer give it importance.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-15   8:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#6)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures. That is what he means by not being 'dogmatic.' Some theologians say 'it will happen before, during or after' some events. It is not clear and the scripture reference from Acts 1 from Baldwin is sage advice. I took that advice from Jesus Christ own words a few years ago.

Personally? All I need is the Upper Room discourse. Jesus told His followers if they love Him He will come for them.

On Israel? Who knows. Baldwin should have stopped with saying "I don't know" like he did for rapture. Because none of us do know. What do we know God will do with a multitude of 'physical' Jews/Israelites gathered in the same geographic location? We don't know. Perhaps as St Augustine believed that in the end a remnant of Jews would convert to Christ for the Glory of God.

Should we support the only democracy in the ME from a secular standpoint? Seems reasonable. Should we care for the well being of Jewish people who still need their Messiah. Yes we should. Should we side with them when they disobey the laws of God...No.

From the perspective of Baldwin I agree...One's Christian faith should not influence politically and militarily a certain secular state. If Christians truly loved the people of Messiah and His apostles, they would provide Christian based support. If the US government values a democratic partner in the ME then they should pursue the government of Israel as an ally.

I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   10:50:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#14)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures.

Interesting discussion here dealing with the end times and rapture.

On a similar note, has anyone here been watching the series "Dig" on USA Network?.

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-15   12:35:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Deckard (#24)

"Dig"? What's it about?

Btw, I'll bookmark your link. The beginning sounds reasonable. The rest appears to cover quite a bit of fascinating ground.

But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-15   12:44:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Liberator (#27)

But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?

His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us.

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities.

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-15   12:52:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard (#29)

His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us.

I can absolutely buy that deception. I can definitely imagine the scenario you've envisioned. People are desperate to be "saved" by anyone, anything other than Jesus Christ and God. Especially aliens. You've no doubt noted the obsession by TV and movies of alien supernatural power, zombies, and magic themes?

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil.

His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities.

Aliens = demons. My belief as well. That the UFOs are actual physical contraptions....They could also be mirages and a trick upon open minds.

Btw, been listening to you link....thanks.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-15   13:05:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Liberator, Deckard (#31)

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil.

Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'

Seems to fit:)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   14:12:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: redleghunter, Deckard, Bob Celeste, Stoner, A K A Stone, Vicomte13, CZ82, TooConservative (#34)

(link) Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'

Seems to fit:)

"Who?" indeed. This statement from this Pope fits like an asbestos glove :-)

If two of the past three Popes were willing to kiss the Koran, then NOTHING should be surprising from the Vatican. It's been an embarrassment now for too long.

(from Red's link):

Speaking at the British Science Festival in 2010, one of then-Pope Benedict XVI’s astronomers said he would baptise an alien “if they asked”. While he accepted that the chances of ever getting such an opportunity were slim, Guy Consolmagno said: “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul.”

Firstly....who knew the Vatican has a staff of astronomers? WHY??

Secondly, Pope Benedict and now Francis are ready to baptize ETs..."no matter how many tentacles"?? Very odd statement.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   12:58:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Liberator (#90)

The Pope has to be up to date on scientific theory.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-17   13:30:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Vicomte13 (#91)

The Pope has to be up to date on scientific theory.

Am I to understand this is your theory for the reason for the Vatican's astronomers?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   13:37:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Liberator (#92)

Am I to understand this is your theory for the reason for the Vatican's astronomers?

It's not a theory.

Modern astronomy began with the Church (Copernicus, Galileo), and to this day much of the grunt work of recording the transits of planets across the Sun is done worldwide by the Jesuits.

Pope Leo XIII, speaking in 1891 of the purpose of the Vatican Observatory: “…that everyone might see clearly that the Church and her Pastors are not opposed to true and solid science, whether human or divine, but that they embrace it, encourage it, and promote it with the fullest possible devotion.”

Modern science originally came out of the Catholic universities. Philosophically, the Catholic Church is pro-science because of the belief in a universe rationally ordered by God.

Think of all of the universities just in the USA that are Catholic: Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, Loyola, St. John's, Marquette. Overseas, the Sorbonne has been nationalized in France, but Louvain and La Sapienza are still Catholic. All told, there are 1358 Catholic universities around the world.

(There are a total of 2474 4-year colleges of all types in the USA; 197 of them are Catholic.)

The Catholic Church is the most widespread educational institution on the planet, with more primary and secondary educational systems in more countries than any other. And remember: the Pope is the head of all of that. He needs to know what is going on in the scientific world.

Heliocentrism originated from a Catholic monk, Copernicus, was confirmed by the observations of a Catholic university professor, Galileo.

Modern scientific theory was derived by a devout French Catholic: Descartes, with deeper math theory expounded by a devout visionary, Paschal. Pasteur gave us germ theory, and the monk Mendel gave us genetic theory. Bacon, the medieval who prefigured the scientific method, was a Catholic monk. So was the famous William of Ockham, author of "Occam's Razor" (he was a Franciscan).

Avogadro (of the famous number) and Bequerel, Volta (inventor of the battery) and Vesalius (founder of anatomy); Lavoisier (creator of chemistry), Lamarck (whom Darwin challenged), Fermat and Galvani with his frog legs. And so on.

The Catholic Church has always been scientific in its focus. Catholics believe that the Natural Law is God's law, and that God's laws are rational. Therefore, Catholics have always expected to find rational order in the universe, and have always intuited that, if they looked hard enough, they would find it.

This is one of the distinctive features of Catholic philosophy that is different - radically different - from many of the Protestant philosophies.

It's the reason why Catholics are untroubled by the theory of evolution, and teach it in Catholic schools. It's the best science (as produced through the method), at the time. Obviously Catholics believe that God is the source of all natural law.

The Church has always been interested in the sciences, and needs to be, because science and religion are fundamentally intertwined, and the Pope needs to be kept up to date on developments.

That's why the Pope has an astronomer.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-17   14:45:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Vicomte13 (#94)

Pope Leo XIII, speaking in 1891 of the purpose of the Vatican Observatory: “…that everyone might see clearly that the Church and her Pastors are not opposed to true and solid science, whether human or divine, but that they embrace it, encourage it, and promote it with the fullest possible devotion.”

Modern science originally came out of the Catholic universities. Philosophically, the Catholic Church is pro-science because of the belief in a universe rationally ordered by God.

Think of all of the universities just in the USA that are Catholic...

I can accept your scientific knowledge explanation fully.....and it made sense. IN THE PAST. Back when the Vatican was as active, powerful and rich a force on the planet. In that sense, astronomy as one more scientific subject to be studied behooved the Vatican and Catholic Universities...

But does it make any sense in the last half century or so? How is the Vatican with its staff of astronomers really supposed to make more discoveries than NASA or any international space programs and modern equipment?

If the Pope needs updating on the discovery new planets, I'm sure the world's scientific community can update him. At this point it's just a hobby. And btw -- what "developments" would be so crucial in the field of astronomy that any Pope needs to be "updated"? "Alien" life??

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   16:17:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Liberator (#101)

And btw -- what "developments" would be so crucial in the field of astronomy that any Pope needs to be "updated"? "Alien" life??

Maybe, if the Pope takes some of Revelation literally, he will be looking for this:

Revelation 9

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.

3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-17   16:36:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: redleghunter (#108)

Maybe, if the Pope takes some of Revelation literally, he will be looking for this:

Revelation 9

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit....

(No telescope needed.)

Not a big fan of "woes."

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   16:49:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Liberator (#112)

And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth.

I forget, was that Nebuchadnezzar or Lucifer in Isaiah?

VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   17:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: VxH (#114)

I don't think it's as much as you "forget" as much as you're very confused.

Do you believe Revelation? The Gospel? Or for that matter Isaiah or ANY of the Bible?

Or are you content to selectively quote what you want? Does that mean you own a Jeffersonian Bible?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   17:07:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Liberator (#116) (Edited)

So you can't answer whether it was Lucifer or Nebuchadnezzar.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Don't let me interrupt your pining for the Apokeeeclypse. Carry on.

VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   17:29:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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