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The Left's War On Christians
See other The Left's War On Christians Articles

Title: 'Jesus is a MYTH': Christ stories appeared decades after his 'death' - and he was probably many people rather than just one, atheist writer claims
Source: Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet ... le-just-one-writer-claims.html
Published: Apr 3, 2015
Author: Richard Gray
Post Date: 2015-04-03 08:49:14 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 26694
Comments: 116

  • Atheist writer David Fitzgerald claims there is no evidence Jesus existed
  • The San Francisco based author instead says Jesus was a literary allegory created by combining old Jewish stories and rituals along with rival cults
  • He insists it is time to stop believing in Jesus Christ as a historical figure

Jesus Christ was not a real person and is probably the result of a combination of stories about several different individuals, according to a writer and leading atheist activist.

David Fitzgerald, a San Francisco based author, believes he has compiled compelling evidence that proves Jesus did not exist.

He claims there are no contemporary mentions of Jesus in historical accounts from the time when he was supposed to have lived, yet other Jewish sect leaders from the time do appear.

Mystery: This painting depicts Jesus Christ as single person but writer David Fitzgerald believes he was a literary invention that combined the stories from several cults and figures in Judea during the first century

Mystery: This painting depicts Jesus Christ as single person but writer David Fitzgerald believes he was a literary invention that combined the stories from several cults and figures in Judea during the first century

He also points to discrepancies in the early gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke, claiming these were written decades after the supposed time of Jesus.

Instead he insists the disciples of Jesus were also probably not real and their names only later attached to the gospels to lend them credence.

NO MENTION OF JESUS IN HISTORY

Historical researcher Michael Paulkovich has claimed that Jesus of Nazareth did not exist after being unable to find any verifiable mention of Christ in historical texts by 126 writers during the ‘time of Jesus’ from the first to third centuries.

He claims that he is a fictional character invented by followers of Christianity to create a figure to worship.

He says this is surprising despite his ‘global miracles and alleged worldwide fame.’

The 126 texts he studied were all written in the period during or soon after the supposed existence of Jesus, when Paulkovich says they would surely have heard of someone as famous as Jesus - but none mention him.

'When I consider those 126 writers, all of whom should have heard of Jesus but did not - and Paul and Marcion and Athenagoras and Matthew with a tetralogy of opposing Christs, the silence from Qumram and Nazareth and Bethlehem, conflicting Bible stories, and so many other mysteries and omissions - I must conclude that Christ is a mythical character,’ he writes.

‘"Jesus of Nazareth" was nothing more than urban (or desert) legend, likely an agglomeration of several evangelic and deluded rabbis who might have existed.’

In a new book due to be published later this year, he will argue that the figure of Jesus was actually a combination of pagan rituals and stories about other people.

Speaking to MailOnline, he said: 'There is a paradox that Jesus did all these amazing things and taught all these amazing things yet no one heard of him outside his immediate cult for nearly 100 years.

'Or it means he didn't do all these things at all.

'The first gospel of Christianity appears to have been a literary allegory that were written decades after the time they portray.

'I believe that Christianity started as one of the many mystery faiths that appeared at the time where old Gods and old traditions were rebooted.

'Christianity appears to have been a Jewish mystery faith.

'By the time of Paul there appears to have been plenty of different "Lord's suppers" as he complains about the existence of other gospels and messiahs.

'It appears that early Christianity managed to take the stories from these other faiths and incorporate them into the story of Jesus.'

Mr Fitzgerald, whose first book 'Nailed: Ten Christian Myths that Show Jesus Never Existed at All' was published in 2010, believes it is no longer reasonable to assume there has to be a single historic figure who began Christianity.

Instead he says early Christians drew upon the beliefs and rituals of other cults and faiths around in the first century.

He argues that John the Baptist's cult is one such example and had initially been a competitor to the cult of Jesus before being incorporated into the Christian story.

Mr Fitzgerald says there are inconsistencies in the Gospels of the Christian bible (pictured above) that suggest Jesus Christ was a literary allegory and these accounts were written decades after his supposed life

Mr Fitzgerald says there are inconsistencies in the Gospels of the Christian bible (pictured above) that suggest Jesus Christ was a literary allegory and these accounts were written decades after his supposed life

The statue of Christ the Redeemer (above) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, is one of many depictions of Jesus but Mr Fitzgerald says that many of the early depictions were unable to agree on his appearance

The statue of Christ the Redeemer (above) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, is one of many depictions of Jesus but Mr Fitzgerald says that many of the early depictions were unable to agree on his appearance

Mr Fitzgerald said: 'There is nothing implausible to think that Jesus was a real person, but I just don't think that he can have been a single person if he existed at all.

'We also have no mention of Jesus in other historical texts from the time. There were certainly people writing about Judea at the time like Philo of Alexandria.

'During this period there were many other messiahs and wannabe messiahs who did far less exciting things than Jesus, but all of them managed something Jesus did not - to make a dent on the historical record.

'Two billion people believe all these miracles happened yet there is no evidence they did.'

The earliest mention of Jesus yet to be discovered is a limestone ossuary on which the words 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' is inscribed.

The box, which has been dated to 64AD - several decades after the crucifixion - was seized by the Israeli Antiquities Authority and its owner arrested for forgery in 2003.

Although he was later cleared in 2012, doubts about the authenticity of the inscription remain.

Others have said there could have been several people named James, whose father was called Joseph and had a brother called Jesus living in Jerusalem at the time.

The James Ossuary (above) is thought by some to be the first mention of Jesus in an inscription on its side

The James Ossuary (above) is thought by some to be the first mention of Jesus in an inscription on its side

There are three mentions of Jesus in non-Christian sources which have been used to research the existence of a 'real' Jesus.

A Jesus is mentioned in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, which was written around 94 AD.

WAS JESUS A MIDDLE-CLASS ARCHITECT (IF HE EXISTED)?

Rather than being born in a stable to a carpenter father, Jesus was actually the son of a successful, middle-class and highly intellectual architect.

This claim comes from biblical scholar Dr Adam Bradford, who also says that between the ages of 12 and 30 - the so-called 'missing years' of Jesus' life, when little is known about him - he was studying at religious schools and became the highest-ranking rabbi in Judea.

The radical revision of Christian history would suggest that, in preaching the spurning of worldly possessions for an austere life, Jesus may have been speaking from experience.

Dr Bradford has analysed the Bible's original Greek and Hebrew scriptures to try to establish the truth about Christ's background.

He says a mistranslation of the Greek word 'tekton' to describe the profession of Joseph, Jesus's father, is one of many mistakes that have led to a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ's character.

Dr Bradford claims that while 'tekton' is usually said to mean carpenter, it more accurately means master builder or architect. As an architect, Joseph would have had a higher social status that enabled him to better educate his son.

Roman historian Tacitus later mentions Christ and his execution with Pontius Pilate in his Annals, thought to be written around 116AD.

Both mentions were a considerable time after his alleged execution.

Mr Fritzgerald also takes issue with many of the stories about the Crucifixion that stem from the first Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.

He said: 'There are many examples of inconsistencies in the gospels that suggest they were written by people who did not live in Judea at the time they are set.

'Mark makes many mistakes about life and geography during the first century in Judea.

'If Jesus really had been arrested on the eve of Passover, they would probably have just put him in jail and tried him after the weekend.

'The trial itself violates the rules of Jewish law - why was he not stoned?

'What we know about Pontius Pilate also suggests he was someone who would not do what the Jews asked him and would often do what they asked him not to.

'Instead Mark portrays him as being persuaded by the Jewish leaders to execute him.'

Mr Fitzgerald argues that many of these stories were in fact incorporated into the story of Christ as literary devices rather than as a historical account.

He said: 'There is also no evidence for the tradition that sees Barabbas - an anti-Roman rebel and murderer - being released while Jesus, an innocent, is condemned to death.

'What this actually seems to be is Mark using the story as an allegory for the Yom Kippur scapegoat ritual where one goat is released into the wilderness and the other is sacrificed for God.'

Mr Fitzgerald hopes to have his new book 'Jesus: Mything in Action' out later this year.

He added: 'It still puzzles me that as soon as anyone tries to pin down who Jesus is we get 50 different Jesus's emerging. There is no consensus.' (4 images)

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#76. To: GarySpFC (#75)

written sometime between ad 110 and 120

I've read it dates to 107BCE.

And some doubt its authenticity, pointing out (among other things) that Pontius Pilate was not a procurator but a prefect and no authentic imperial document would make such an error.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-04-04   12:46:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: GarySpFC (#70)

So, you agree with me. They borrowed what little they could understand from the Phoenicians and bastardized what little they could understand.

As for the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible (in part, "the Torah") it began in ~600 BCE, after the Exile. So, what happened to all that time from the beginning that God created? Did the Jews think that time stood still for them? I am confident of the fact, as they are the self proclaimed "chosen people" and can make up rules for just about anything because they possess few principles.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-04   13:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: buckeroo (#68)

That is correct ... the Jews did not know how to write or read until the Babylonians took them for a couple of generations.

Not true.

When the Jews came back from Babylon, they had to make a choice: use the new form of letters they learned in Babylon, the "Aramaic" script, or to return to their old style letters, the "Ivrit" script. The majority went with Aramaic script, so what we today call "Hebrew" letters are not, in fact, Hebrew. They are Babylonian letters. The original Hebrew Ivrit script stopped being used, except by a few. There are some Ivrit texts at Qumran, and they are the oldest ones. Also, the Samaritan Pentateuch is written in Ivrit letters. This, too, was a reason that the returning Jews ended up keeping the Babylonian script and not readopting their old form of the letters (the alphabet itself is the same): the old form was used by the Samaritans, and the Jews wanted to clearly distinguish themselves from them.

The existence of the Ivrit, however, is well attested. And that means that the Jews knew how to write long before they went away to Babylon. They didn't learn to write in Babylon. They learned a new script.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-04   13:19:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: cranko (#71)

No, Muslims consider Jesus a great prophet.

No they don't. They say he is a liar and was not born of a virgin.

Show me where it says that Muslims believe that Jesus is the son of God and was born of a virgin.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-04   13:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Vicomte13 (#78)

Your agreement is further substantiation about a false Biblical record. The Old Testament or any written document is not handed down by GOD.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-04   13:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: buckeroo (#61)

The substance is from reading the Gospels for over 40 years.

"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-04   15:28:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: BobCeleste (#65)

Local rabble rousers:) Not a Roman opposition party.

"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-04   15:30:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: redleghunter (#82)

Local rabble rousers:) Not a Roman opposition party.

Simon called Zelotes, one of the twelve Apostles. In the Greek, Zelotes, pronounced dzay-lo-tace' Search for 2208 in Strong's KJV, the same as 2208; a Zealot, i.e. (specially)a partisan for Jewish political independence,:--Zelotes.

That would qualify as a party opposed to Roman rule.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-04-04   17:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: A K A Stone (#79) (Edited)

No they don't. They say he is a liar and was not born of a virgin.

Show me where it says that Muslims believe that Jesus is the son of God and was born of a virgin.

I already showed you. You just don't want to understand.

Here it is again:

What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus?

(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)

Lying about these people is not going to help your cause.

cranko  posted on  2015-04-04   17:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: buckeroo (#63)

Have you studied Biblical Archeology? Yes or no.

Don  posted on  2015-04-04   18:25:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: cranko aka jwpegler (#84)

The Muslims do not believe Jesus is the son of God and has the power to forgive sins.

Muslims consider him a liar.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-04   19:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: redleghunter (#81)

The substance is from reading the Gospels for over 40 years. [note: not learning]

After 40 years of reading "begat, begat, begat" which is the basis of the gospels, what have you learned from all your reading?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-04   20:21:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Don (#85)

Have you studied Biblical Archeology?

Yes. John Hagee sez: It is not possible to say, "I am a Christian" and not love the Jewish people. The Bible teaches that love is not what you say, but what you do. (1 John 3:18) "A bell is not a bell until you ring it, a song is not a song until you sing it, love is not love until you share it."

Yet, the man is a 100% PRO-Israeli fascist to steal Palestinian lands while murdering innocent women and children. It is the way it always was, just a different mask, this time.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-04   20:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: buckeroo, Vicomte13 (#80)

Your agreement is further substantiation about a false Biblical record. The Old Testament or any written document is not handed down by GOD.

He didn't agree with you. If you have any integrity quit pettifogging.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-04-04   21:18:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: GarySpFC, Vicomte13 (#89)

buckeroo: That is correct ... the Jews did not know how to write or read until the Babylonians took them for a couple of generations.

Vicomte13: Not true.

When the Jews came back from Babylon, they had to make a choice: use the new form of letters they learned in Babylon, the "Aramaic" script, or to return to their old style letters, the "Ivrit" script. The majority went with Aramaic script, so what we today call "Hebrew" letters are not, in fact, Hebrew. They are Babylonian letters. The original Hebrew Ivrit script stopped being used, except by a few. There are some Ivrit texts at Qumran, and they are the oldest ones. Also, the Samaritan Pentateuch is written in Ivrit letters. This, too, was a reason that the returning Jews ended up keeping the Babylonian script and not readopting their old form of the letters (the alphabet itself is the same): the old form was used by the Samaritans, and the Jews wanted to clearly distinguish themselves from them.

The existence of the Ivrit, however, is well attested. And that means that the Jews knew how to write long before they went away to Babylon. They didn't learn to write in Babylon. They learned a new script.

buckeroo: Your agreement is further substantiation about a false Biblical record. The Old Testament or any written document is not handed down by GOD.

GarySpFC: He didn't agree with you. If you have any integrity quit pettifogging.

Yes, he did. He unknowingly supported 100% of my posts.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-04   21:24:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: BobCeleste (#83)

That would qualify as a party opposed to Roman rule.

Not in Rome. Not a serious threat to bring down the Roman regime. The Zealots today would be considered a regional faction. One which Rome obliterated ca. AD 70.

"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-04   22:57:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: buckeroo (#87)

After 40 years of reading "begat, begat, begat" which is the basis of the gospels, what have you learned from all your reading?

That you haven't.

"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-04   22:58:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: buckeroo (#80)

The Scriptures were written by men, of course. They were inspired to write them by God.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-05   8:06:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: cranko (#84)

Jesus' virgin birth is a miracle in which Muslims believe, but they don't believe this makes him a son of God. A miracle , yes, but not one that involved the fathering of a child by God. Rather, he was formed miraculously, like the first animals and men. His birth was miraculous, but there was no transmission of divine essence. In other words, Mary was given a cild in her womb by God, but God did not impregnate her, according to Muslims. Jesus is a miraculous prophet, made by God, but not BEGOTTEN by God. Thus, he is not God's biological son, and is holy, but not divine, for nothing shares in divinity, according to Islam.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-05   8:16:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: redleghunter (#91)

That would qualify as a party opposed to Roman rule.

Not in Rome. Not a serious threat to bring down the Roman regime. The Zealots today would be considered a regional faction. One which Rome obliterated ca. AD 70.

A serious enough threat to send the better part of half the Roman Army to extinguish.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-04-05   15:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: buckeroo (#88)

John Hagee? What does he have to do with this discussion? Red Herring.

How have you studied Biblical Archeology? Or, should I ask what you know about it?

Don  posted on  2015-04-05   23:37:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Don (#96)

John Hagee? What does he have to do with this discussion?

yeah, this guy professes to steadfastly follow the Bible based on all archaeological evidence he has studied which has demonstrated the truth of and about Israel.

what's so wrong with bringing this charlatan up on this thread?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   18:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Vicomte13 (#93)

The Scriptures were written by men, of course. They were inspired to write them by God.

What makes you so sure that GOD inspired any man? Because they told you so through one form of communication or another?

Why doesn't GOD inspire you and me and everyone else while simplifying the interpretation of GOD's word? I question all things on this planet. So any retort, "you can't argue with GOD's word," just won't go very far beyond your own post.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   19:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: buckeroo (#97) (Edited)

Do you really believe that everyone wearing a Christian nameplate is perfect or even really a Christian?

Even Mohammed was a pedophilic, psychopathic murderer whose devout followers even now follow him by doing the same things he did. And, the best you can do is mention Hagee's name?

Get real. And, you studied Biblical Archeology how?

Don  posted on  2015-04-06   20:34:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Don, Vicomte13 (#99)

Do you really believe that everyone wearing a Christian nameplate is perfect or even really a Christian?

If they say they are Christians, they must be. They could be "GOD" inspired as Vicomte13, suggests.

Even Mohammed was a pedophilic, psychopathic murderer whose devout followers even now follow him by doing the same things he did. And, the best you can do is mention Hagee's name?

What do the Mulahs have to do with this thread?

And, you studied Biblical Archeology how?

John Hagee and all Christians that embrace Israel. Don't you watch with any interest the bullshit that our tax payer dollars pay for within the middle east?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   20:43:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Vicomte13 (#64)

The Muslims trust only the Koran and the Hadith written in Arabic. Translations in another language means nothing to them. Also, to the Muslims lying to non-Muslims is widely accepted as being morally acceptable as given in the Koran. In Muslim countries, believers of other religions are second class citizens with no rights. People should be cautious about supporting the Muslims. They love useful, naive people just as the Communists do.

Don  posted on  2015-04-06   20:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: buckeroo (#100)

Buck, you should think about your posts before typing them. You should have some substance in them.

Don  posted on  2015-04-06   20:47:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Don (#102)

The Middle East issue is complete lie by all Christians as their testament about "Jesus" or any "GOD."

This ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIER stuff is not worth another dime.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   20:50:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: buckeroo (#103)

Buck, are you a Muslim?

Don  posted on  2015-04-06   21:34:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: buckeroo (#103)

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-06   21:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Don (#104)

Buck, are you a Muslim?

Nope. The world around me and you and everyone has nothing to do with GOD in any direct way. It is all a mystery.

Why do you ask?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   21:38:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: A K A Stone (#105)

Very cute, Stone. here, let us reflect on violence in Israel, endorsed by nice Jews and Christians:

Honour Hagee, before it's too late!

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   21:44:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: A K A Stone (#105)

Wonderful. Good little Lutherans I think.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." (John 11:25)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-06   21:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: buckeroo (#107)

Nice bit of Jihadi propaganda.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." (John 11:25)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-06   21:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: redleghunter (#109)

Jihadi

It gets real phunney when "Christians" suggest GOD is based on Biblical divine inspiration while murdering in the real world. It also goes for Muslims. It is very strange with one small caveat ... I don't want to pay for this government war.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-04-06   21:59:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: buckeroo (#98)

Why doesn't GOD inspire you

He has and he does.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-06   22:40:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Don (#101)

The Muslims trust only the Koran and the Hadith written in Arabic. Translations in another language means nothing to them. Also, to the Muslims lying to non-Muslims is widely accepted as being morally acceptable as given in the Koran. In Muslim countries, believers of other religions are second class citizens with no rights. People should be cautious about supporting the Muslims. They love useful, naive people just as the Communists do.

The Arabic is authoritative, yes, but the Yusuf Ali translation into English is considered by Muslims to be the testimonial standard in English. Of course it's but an echo, as are all translations into any language. But if one is going to discuss the Koran in English with Muslims, they accept the Yusuf Ali translation as very good. It's an exaggeration to say that translations "mean nothing to them". To Wahabbis, probably, but to Pakistanis or Indonesians, or Muslims in the West, they are meaningful.

Lying is a legitimate tactic in war (and American law enforcement). in the Bible the Israelites lie and deceive their enemies in war all the time. The Muslims believe the same thing. Now, radical jihadis say that there is permanent war against all Muslims, so one can lie to them at any time. This is not the traditional position of the four schools of Islam, however, and is not the majority opinion among Muslim clerics.

It is true that in some Muslim countries, believers of other religions have no rights. But it is not true either as a matter of law or as a matter of fact in most Muslim countries. The closer to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbism, the more hardcore and oppressive Islam becomes.

People should not support Muslims, or Jews, at all. These are false religions that each reject Christ in their own special way. People should care about Arabs and ethnic Jews, while hoping that they can someday shed their false religions and see the truth.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-06   22:57:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: buckeroo (#110)

What?

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." (John 11:25)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-06   23:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: kenh, Don, redleghunter (#26)

There are many people who want to think that Jesus is only a myth. They also want to think that Hell is only a myth. It would be most unfortunate for them if they are wrong.

Ah, Christian love. There's no love like Christian love.

Why confuse the warnings by Christians of a destination called Hell with "hatred"? Did you run into traffic as a child, or did someone tell you it was dangerous? I reckon you trusted that advice, source, and adverse outcome.

Ken, if Christians truly "hated" you, they'd say nothing and allow you to swan-dive into the bowels of Hades forever, and readily accept the "myth" (or rather lie) that there is no Judgment, and that *everyone* lands in Paradise.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-07   12:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: GarySpFC, cranky, Buckeroo, ALL (#28)

I am always amazed when I hear ignorance crowing from the rooftops that Jesus Christ was just a myth and that the historical evidence does not support his existence. What does the evidence show?

Firstly, we have 5800 handwritten manuscripts of the Greek New Testament. These manuscripts predate the Gutenberg press. Most of these 5800 manuscripts are from the Middle Ages, however only a few hundred reach back into great antiquity. In fact, we have four dozen manuscripts that date to the year 300 A.D. or earlier....We have one recently discovered manuscript which has been dated 80 A.D. from the Gospel of Mark.

Yup, that kind of ignorance from intelligent people just boggles the mind. Vanity is literally the enemy of Eternal Life.

The skeptics are readily willing to accept the secular world's flimsiest evidence and accounts of "history" and so-called "science" dogma, yet deny fastidiously maintained ancient records, manuscripts and testimony from several sources.

The New Testament manuscripts more than favorably compare to any other works from ancient history. Take as an example Julius Caesar and his Gallic War, which he composed in 50 BC. All we have are 10 fairly well preserved manuscripts, which date to 850 A.D. the oldest one is 900 years remove from when he wrote the original. Great overview and statistical reminder, Gary. Thanks...

To review, there are 5800 handwritten manuscripts of the Greek New Testament + 48 manuscripts from 300 A.D. and earlier. THEY are to be regarded with utmost skepticism and dismissed as a "myth."

On the other hand, the weight of 10 manuscripts with respect to Julius Caesar's escapades which date to 850 A.D. are to be believed as totally authentic -- historically and factually.

Based on the documentation and "evidence," why the heavy skepticism for the life and history of Jesus Christ and the Gospel? And "myth" status? "Myths" are based on lies, NOT testimony and proven documentation, which is overwhelming.

My theory is that the skeptics know well the truth of the matter, but are foolishly hoping against hope that somehow after this mortal life has passed that they will be a Mulligan on Judgment Day by the Almighty as having *already* "served their time in Hell." Or that "everyone goes to Heaven" because they were "good people." Two of Satan's best lies.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-07   12:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: buckeroo, ALL (#90) (Edited)

I went back to 2/2012 on this site and you were at that time denying the existence of Jesus similiar to G A Wells. Here is what a secular humanist had to say about that nonsense, and it will give you an idea how far out your ideas float.

G.A.Wells - retired German teacher, amateur theologian and the hyper-skeptics' demigod. Wells is not very well known outside of the skeptical community. It is the curious nature of his ideas which draws attention. There have been Bible scholars who have denied Jesus said the things attributed to him. Few, however, have joined Wells in denying Jesus very existence. Randel Helms, speaking to an audience of secular humanists at a CODESH "Institute for Inquiry" on "A Secular Humanist Approach to the Gospels," said sarcastically, "I think that you can deal with Well's notion that Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus [as follows]: Sure Christianity could have started without a historical Jesus. And monkeys could fly out of my butt."

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-04-18   7:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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