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United States News
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Title: Why Won't Rand Paul and Chris Christie Take a Position on Indiana's "Religious Freedom" Law?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/ ... -indiana-religious-freedom-law
Published: Apr 2, 2015
Author: Danny Vinik
Post Date: 2015-04-02 07:30:35 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 6306
Comments: 46

Nearly a week since Indiana Governor Mike Pence signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), igniting a nationwide debate about whether the controversial law invites discrimination based on sexual orientation, most potential Republican presidential candidates have taken the opportunity to bolster their conservative credentials.

"Governor Pence has done the right thing," said former Florida Governor Jeb Bush on Monday.

“I want to commend Governor Mike Pence for his support of religious freedom, especially in the face of fierce opposition,” Texas Senator Ted Cruz said in a written statement. “Governor Pence is holding the line to protect religious liberty in the Hoosier State. Indiana is giving voice to millions of courageous conservatives across this country who are deeply concerned about the ongoing attacks upon our personal liberties. I’m proud to stand with Mike, and I urge Americans to do the same."

Ben Carson, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, and former Texas Governor Rick Perry all expressed their support for Pence and Indiana's RFRA law. (Meanwhile, Democrats Hillary Clinton and Martin O'Malley have come out against it.)

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But two likely 2016 candidates have been notably absent from this debate: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. What do they think about the law, and why have they been so quiet on the issue?

Samantha Smith, the communications director for Christie’s Leadership Matters for America PAC, did not return a request for comment on Wednesday morning. (I'll update this if I hear back.) Christie’s past statements offer little light on where he will fall on the issue, but he has been shifting to the right on social issues in advance of the Republican primary. On Tuesday, he announced his support for a 20-week abortion ban. Given Christie’s shaky position within the party, and the fact that the rest of the field supports Indiana’s law, it would be very surprising if he joined with liberals in opposing it.

As for Paul, Sergio Gor, the communications director of RandPAC, wrote in an email, “The Senator is out of pocket with family this week and has not weighed in at this time.”

It makes sense that Paul is unplugging with his family this week: He's expected to announce his presidential bid on April 7, the beginning of a long, grueling journey—and a victory would mean that these are his last moments of real privacy for a very long time. Could anyone blame him if he wanted to spend a few quiet days with his family? I couldn’t.

But it also seems a bit convenient that Paul is entirely unreachable while the controversy swirls. If his campaign launch is just six days away, surely Paul and his staff are in close communication. How long does it take to send a tweet or tell your staff to craft a statement?

It will be interesting to see how Paul reacts to the law—as he'll be forced to do, probably no later than April 7—in light of his libertarian credentials. If he stuck true to them, not only would he support the law but also support the right of Indiana’s businesses to discriminate against LGBT people, something that the rest of the Republican field opposes. (They just disagree with liberals about whether Indiana’s law would allow discrimination.)

But if recent history is any guide, don’t expect Paul to stick true to his libertarian roots. Almost whenever he has faced a choice between traditional libertarian positions and mainstream Republican positions, he has chosen the latter in hope of winning the GOP nomination. Just recently, for instance, he called for more defense spending after saying for years that the military was bloated and needed further cuts.

In fact, Paul has already reversed himself on whether private businesses should be allowed to exclude people from their establishments for any reason. “I think it’s a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant,” he told the Louisville Courier-Journal in 2010. “But, at the same time, I do believe in private ownership.” He continued, “In a free society, we will tolerate boorish people, who have abhorrent behavior, but if we're civilized people, we publicly criticize that, and don't belong to those groups, or don't associate with those people.” Just a few years later, as that position became controversial, Paul (dishonestly) said that he never held the libertarian position to begin with.

So while it is taking a while for Paul to give his position, it isn’t hard to deduce where he’ll eventually fall. Maybe he’s just waiting until the spotlight on Indiana dies down a bit, so that his libertarian supporters are less aware when he adopts the party line. But if that's his plan, it's not very presidential.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 45.

#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)

In fact, Paul has already reversed himself on whether private businesses should be allowed to exclude people from their establishments for any reason.

I agree with Paul. People cannot exclude people from their business establishments for any reason.

They can't exclude people just because those people are black.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-02   7:32:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

I agree with Paul. People cannot exclude people from their business establishments for any reason.

They can't exclude people just because those people are black.

That is what the law says.

But that is not what Gods law says.

You support tyranny. You support people acting against their conscience.

The government shouldn't be able to force you to associate with anyone you don't want to.

I'm not for excluding blacks from anyplace. But if someone is it is most certainly their right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-02   7:38:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#4)

But that is not what Gods law says.

You're going to dare assert that GOD'S law allows racist people to exclude people based solely on their skin color?

GOD'S law?

I'm going to end my side of this particular conversation. You're walking out on a ledge and don't seem to realize it. I'm not going to egg you on.

God made everybody your cousin, and every Christian your sister and your brother.

And he never privileged mere commerce above his own moral demands and clarity. Mere commerce never trumps the moral law. Ever.

"There is neither Greek nor Jew, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Paul

Ok, that's it. I'm not going to become a source of temptation to you, such that in your rage you misrepresent God and actually believe it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-02   8:06:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

You're going to dare assert that GOD'S law allows racist people to exclude people based solely on their skin color?

GOD'S law?

God told the Jews not to intermarry with those other races.

God never supported any law forcing people to accommodate blacks, whites, browns or reds. He gave us free will.

I am not walking on any ledge and I'm not worried about eggs.

I work for myself. I've worked for Indians, Pakistanis, blacks, whites, jews. I even worked for a queer who thought himself a pastor. His name is Sam Kader look him up. I even did a small job for a queer who had homo pics on his walls. It was outside work so I didn't have to look at them except that glance I got.

However every man has a right to associate with who they choose. To sell to who they choose. To rent to who they choose. To hire who they choose.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-02   8:25:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#7)

Every man has a right to associate with who they choose. To sell to who they choose. To rent to who they choose. To hire who they choose.

Fundamentally, this is true liberty.

When did the freedom of association and commerce end? Moreover, what mechanism gave the gubmint the authority to favor one citizen over another AND coerce its citizenry into violating its conscience and religious principles?

"Public accommodation" was a decent and Biblical attribute...although ironically technically violates the original tenets of the USCON. It's proven to be a sticky-wicket and vcan o' worms. Taken to its (predictable) extreme, it's now totally one-sided and subverted.

Rhetorical Example "A":

Why shouldn't the RCC be subservient to federal law and auspices of 'accommodation' and thus be compelled to ordain a Satanist or anyone who claims they are "Catholic" as clergy?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-02   14:33:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Liberator (#34)

When did the freedom of association and commerce end? Moreover, what mechanism gave the gubmint the authority to favor one citizen over another AND coerce its citizenry into violating its conscience and religious principles?

In America, it ended before it began.

When the Founders declared that all men are created equal, but then upheld slavery, the freedom of assocation and commerce of a quarter of the population died aborning. They had theoretical rights of equality which were, however, suppressed by the reality of a constitutional and legal system that enforced their enslavement.

They were freed in blood, through an unconstitutional war. Released, their former masters acted to reassert dominance through force and law, and things remained that way until the Civil Rights fights of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

In those, the government power that had stripped away the liberty of one group, turned and acknowledged their liberty. And to uphold it, used it power to force the former dominant group to make way for them.

Today, businesses MUST serve blacks because 50 years ago they refused to. That's when, and that's why.

It COULD be confined to the narrow issue of the treatment of blacks by whites, and it OUGHT to be.

The current struggle over religious conscience COULD be fought out on freedom of religion grounds, rooted in the First Amendment. If there is to be any hope of victory, that's where it needs to be fought.

But as to a general notional idea that people in commerce, labor and property are absolutely free to do whatever they please - that was NEVER true in this land. First there was slavery and segregation, which violently took away the rights of a large part of the population in those regards. To overcome that, the rights of those doing the oppression had to themselves be suppressed significantly enough to strip their power to oppress.

And that's where we are today.

When did it end? It never began in the first place.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-02   15:10:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Vicomte13 (#38)

First there was slavery and segregation, which violently took away the rights of a large part of the population in those regards.

We should always keep in mind that much of the political will to confront slavery and to free the slaves came from laborers in non-slave states who did not like their wage competition with...slave wages. It's where we get the term apparently. In blunt terms, white men didn't want to work for slave wages and didn't want a country that allowed that situation.

We hear the same about illegal alien workers who displace citizens.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-03   2:21:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: TooConservative (#43)

We hear the same about illegal alien workers who displace citizens.

And when we hear it, it's right.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-03   12:31:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Vicomte13 (#44)

It's worth recalling that these nativist and unfair wage competition concerns have surfaced repeatedly throughout American history. The Left acts like this is something new and sinister when in fact modern immigrants are far more easily accepted than past waves of mass immigration. The Irish, the Germans, the Jews, the southern Europeans (Italians, Sicilians, Greeks), the eastern Europeans, now the Mexicans and Central Americans and the various Mideast imports we see now. Asians get off relatively lightly, probably because of shame over the travesty against domestic Japanese during WW II.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-04-03   12:44:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 45.

#46. To: TooConservative (#45) (Edited)

Asians were treated little better than slaves or Indians in old California.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-03 19:41:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 45.

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