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Religion
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Title: Why You Should Think Twice before Bad-mouthing Obama
Source: Bible Study Tools
URL Source: http://www.biblestudytools.com/blog ... =email&utm_campaign=03/18/2015
Published: Mar 18, 2015
Author: Mark Altrogge
Post Date: 2015-03-18 11:21:41 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 10697
Comments: 44

Conservative ex-rocker Ted Nugent recently described President Obama as a “subhuman mongrel.” Later he told Dallas-based talk radio host Ben Ferguson, “I do apologize—not necessarily to the president—but on behalf of much better men than myself.”

PJ O’Rourke said, “Barack Obama is more irritating than the other nuisances on the left,” according to brainyquote.com

There is even a Facebook page called “People Against Our IDIOT President Obama”

It doesn’t surprise me that people would make these kinds of comments about our president. People have probably said similar things about every president. But what grieves me is when I hear Christians making these kinds of comments about our president, or posting comments like these on Facebook.

Peter told his readers to “honor everyone.” Then after exhorting them to “fear God,” he exhorted them to “honor the Emperor.” Do you know who the Emperor was when Peter wrote this? Nero. One of the most wicked tyrants in history. He executed opponents, persecuted Christians, and even killed his own mother. It is reported that he had Christians dipped in oil or wax, impaled them on poles, and set them on fire as torches. In the Circus Maximus, he often wrapped them in animal skins and threw them to lions or dogs that tore them apart in front of the spectators. Yet Peter told believers to honor this man.

We must honor those in power above us because God placed them there and gave them their authority. Paul said, “For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God” (Romans 13:1).

Therefore, God calls us to honor President Obama. This does not mean we have like him or agree with anything he does or believe he is a good president. But we must honor him in our hearts and with our speech. For a believer in Jesus to call President Obama an idiot is a sin, not just against the president but against God.

Let me ask a question to those who complain and rant against the president. Do you pray for him as much as you criticize him?

Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 2, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, and intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.” (1 Timothy 2:1–2). God commands us to pray for our leaders. Do you?

God takes his word very seriously. If we dishonor the President there may be consequences in our lives for disobeying God’s command. These consequences will be worse than anything the president does to us by his policies.

So, honor Barack Obama. Whether you like him or not. Whether you agree with him or not. If you don’t know how to honor him, it would be better to say nothing and simply pray for him.


Poster Comment:

Please note this is an OP/ED piece from a pastor to generate discussion. Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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#1. To: BobCeleste, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don (#0)

PING

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   11:22:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: redleghunter (#0)

" honor Barack Obama "

No way Jose !

If that is supposed to be illustrative of the authors intellect, he needs a different line of work!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-18   11:49:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: redleghunter (#0)

I have nothing but the highest respect for the emperor .

Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.(Daniel Webster)

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-18   11:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: tomder55 (#3)

:) Good one.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   12:07:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: redleghunter (#0)

My wife and I have had this very discussion - i.e. how to pray for a leader with whom you completely disagree. And in Obama's case - how to pray for a leader who does not seem to have the best interests at heart of the country he is leading.

I can't say we've come to any different conclustions than the writer of the op/ed piece.

I guess we just have to chalk it up to one of those Scriptural things that is beyond our understanding. (it doesn't give us license to disobey it, though)

I can say this - while I don't like what I see as the damage that Obama is doing to our country - that I do not hate the man personally.

When I do criticize him publicly, I always try to make sure I'm criticizing his ACTIONS and not the man.

And yes, we DO pray for him.

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-03-18   13:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Rufus T Firefly (#5)

Yes we can pray our leaders seek the wisdom of God as did Solomon.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   13:31:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: redleghunter (#0)

Peter told his readers to “honor everyone.” Then after exhorting them to “fear God,” he exhorted them to “honor the Emperor.” Do you know who the Emperor was when Peter wrote this? Nero.

Utter drivel in its absolute context.

According to Pastor Altrogge, shall we just as well have knelt before Anton LeVey if he were President? And now 0bola? WHERE is it written that we should "honor" Evil??

Forgiveness and praying for a satanist or our enemy to find wisdom and repentance is NOT the same as "honoring" a satanic "leader" whose goal is to murder and maim us.

More drivel from liberal, apologist "Pastor":

"God takes his word very seriously. If we dishonor the President there may be consequences in our lives for disobeying God’s command."

Baloney. We "dishonor" the Lord by "honoring" Evil. We are called to "resist evil.

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   13:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: redleghunter (#6)

Yes we can pray our leaders seek the wisdom of God as did Solomon.

That was the short of it :-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   13:46:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Rufus T Firefly, BobCeleste, GarySpFc, Vicomte13, Don, Stoner, A K A Stone, tomder55 (#5)

When I do criticize him publicly, I always try to make sure I'm criticizing his ACTIONS and not the man.

Noble...HOWEVER with all due respect, this man is despicable and Evil personified. And obviously demon-possessed.

Scripture can and easily misinterpreted without proper context.

Chuck Baldwin:

Observe that Romans Chapter 13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . . for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that divine boundary has no divine authority or protection.

Civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and reach of civil authority....

...there are times when civil authority may need to be resisted. Either governmental abuse of power or the violation of conscience (or both) could precipitate civil disobedience. Of course, how and when we decide to resist civil authority is an entirely separate issue. And I will reserve that discussion for another time.

Beyond that, we in the United States of America do not live under a monarchy. We have no king [but Jesus.]"

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/baldwin/070810

Another good column by Chuck Baldwin:

'No king but Caesar'

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/baldwin/130405

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   14:16:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter (#0)

Since calling obama a lying muslim terrorist piece of scum is not going to cost me my salvation, I will continue to call it a lying muslim terrorist piece of scum.

Seems to me that Mark Altrogge has never read Acts four and five.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-18   14:40:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Liberator (#9)

Observe that Romans Chapter 13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . . for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that divine boundary has no divine authority or protection.

Civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and reach of civil authority....

...there are times when civil authority may need to be resisted. Either governmental abuse of power or the violation of conscience (or both) could precipitate civil disobedience. Of course, how and when we decide to resist civil authority is an entirely separate issue. And I will reserve that discussion for another time.

Beyond that, we in the United States of America do not live under a monarchy. We have no king [but Jesus.]"

Ditto.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-18   14:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: redleghunter (#9)

PING

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   14:45:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: BobCeleste (#11) (Edited)

Backacha, brutha...

Seems to me that Mark Altrogge has never read Acts four and five.

If he has, it's out of context. You wonder -- is it out of habit or deception?

You also wonder how Altrogge would handle the event were his Islamic/Statist "authoritahs" to order his wife and kids to "submit" to torture. Rape. OR execution.

Moreover, here this same author (as opposed to Baldwin's full interpretative context of Romans 13:1) drawing an insane conclusion:

We must honor those in power above us because God placed them there and gave them their authority. Paul said, “For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God” (Romans 13:1).

Therefore, God calls us to honor President 0bama.

Uh. NO. NOT quite, Pastor Altrogge. Nice try.

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   14:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator, tomder55 (#7)

Utter drivel in its absolute context.

Context is everything. In 1st century AD Rome if you went out in front of the Senate and hurled dung at Caesar as he marched by and told him you oppose his political stance of throwing Christians to the lions...then I see Peter's point. You would be as good as dead.

I think the point he tries to skirt here is, yes we can be critical but as Christians we don't have to be 'monsters' or 'ugly' about how we do it.

Here's an example of two ways to approach a simple subject.

I think we both agree that the emperor's policies, at least most of them are from the pits of hell. So here are two approaches on how to 'protest' or opine on the hellian policies:

1. write an OP/ED showing the emperor he has no clothes and he is surrounded with bad leadership. Meets the intent of Pastor Altrogge. Right?

2. Or display your distaste for the policies of the emperor with a nice picture (worth a thousand words).

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   15:33:45 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Liberator (#9)

Observe that Romans Chapter 13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . . for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that divine boundary has no divine authority or protection.

Civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and reach of civil authority....

...there are times when civil authority may need to be resisted. Either governmental abuse of power or the violation of conscience (or both) could precipitate civil disobedience. Of course, how and when we decide to resist civil authority is an entirely separate issue. And I will reserve that discussion for another time.

Beyond that, we in the United States of America do not live under a monarchy. We have no king [but Jesus.]"

Good deal. Thanks.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   15:38:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: redleghunter (#14) (Edited)

Context is everything. In 1st century AD Rome if you went out in front of the Senate and hurled dung at Caesar as he marched by and told him you oppose his political stance of throwing Christians to the lions...then I see Peter's point. You would be as good as dead.

I think the point he tries to skirt here is, yes we can be critical but as Christians we don't have to be 'monsters' or 'ugly' about how we do it....

I understand the point -- there may be a high price to pay for civil disobedience...but Pastor Altrogge is specifically stressing an overiding point: That 0buma is to be "honored."

However, DOES 0buma or any bloody tyrant who has hijacked authority by illegal means have a new authority to execute their wrath, injustice, and evil upon those who do and promote good?

Rejecting and resisting evil, preserving life and limb, and rejecting coercion to commit evil on behalf of evil shouldn't be confused with "being ugly" or "monsters."

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   15:50:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Liberator (#16)

However, DOES 0buma or any bloody tyrant who has hijacked authority by illegal means have a new authority to execute their wrath, injustice, and evil upon those who do and promote good?

Rejecting and resisting evil, preserving life and limb, and rejecting coercion to commit evil on behalf of evil shouldn't be confused with "being ugly" or "monsters."

If we go back to Peter's time and context I don't think how the author uses 'honor' was the same as then which I believe was 'respect' that authority. And respect that authority based on your highlight from Paul meaning we should be good citizens and not break the law for the good of society. Which means I doubt 1st Century AD Christians 'honored' or 'respected' the gladiator fights and fellow Christians fed to wild animals. That was evil and must be resisted.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   15:58:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: redleghunter (#17)

If we go back to Peter's time and context I don't think how the author uses 'honor' was the same as then which I believe was 'respect' that authority.

Pastor Altrogge's exact words: "Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor." 1 Peter 2:17"

1 Peter 2:17 (NIV)

Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

IS the context the same?

Or for that matter, is 0buma a "king"? In the context of "honor," shall we "honor" murderous psychopaths? How do we define proper respect? Satanists? Surely the context of Peter isn't so broadsweeping.

believe was 'respect' that authority. And respect that authority based on your highlight from Paul meaning we should be good citizens and not break the law for the good of society. Which means I doubt 1st Century AD Christians 'honored' or 'respected' the gladiator fights and fellow Christians fed to wild animals. That was evil and must be resisted.

Ok, so we've expanded the context a bit -- of which I agree.

I highly dispute the claims by the author:

"If we dishonor the President there may be consequences in our lives for disobeying God’s command. These consequences will be worse than anything the president does to us by his policies."

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-18   16:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#14)

Jesus didn't want his followers to get themselves killed making gestures of disrespect. Peter and Paul followed the same logic. They also wanted to be examples to all others, of sobriety and concern.

Prayers for Nero? Sure: Lord, please open his eyes!

Reminds of of the Prayer for the Tsar from Fiddler on the Roof:

"May God bless and keep the Czar... far away from us!"

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-18   17:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: redleghunter (#0) (Edited)

Therefore, God calls us to honor President Obama.

Another example of Christianity promoting the pathological ideal that love and well-earned disgust and hatred should be capable of living side by side within the same individual. In real life each aspect interferes with the other to produce an immobilized, guilt-ridden, compliant, over-tolerant, groveling, vegetable chronically seeking forgiveness from sadists whether they are in a church pulpit, in a school classroom, or in political office.

This is one reason I would never subscribe to Christianity. It is too inclined to inculcate pathology that creates internal conflict and pathological immobilization.

Respect and honor are to be merited. Behavior which is in accordance with respect and honor is to be encouraged and rewarded. Behavior that is contrary to respect and honor is to be expunged.

Please note this is an OP/ED piece from a pastor to generate discussion.

A pastor of pathology.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-18   19:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: rlk, GarySpFc, liberator, BobCeleste, Vicomte13 (#20)

Pathological don't think so. Misguided on his interpretation, sure.

As Christians we cannot support evil.

Christians pray for their enemies not embrace their evil. It is our hope the most damned and destitute sinner is given the light of God's Grace and led to repentance and regeneration. Why? Because most of us know the bonds of sin and have experienced the Grace of God. In His presence we are all lacking.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   1:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: rlk, GarySpFc, liberator (#20)

Another example of Christianity promoting the pathological ideal that love and well-earned disgust and hatred should be capable of living side by side within the same individual.

I think the internal conflict is all your own.

Christ healed willing repentant sinners. He did not embrace their sin.

As a Christian I know most of the emperor's policies are evil. Most because he tries to usurp powers that don't belong to him. I don't support his policies or efforts. I oppose them.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   1:33:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Vicomte13 (#19)

"May God bless and keep the Czar... far away from us!"

Good memory there Vic.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   1:35:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#22)

Christ healed willing repentant sinners. He did not embrace their sin.

Christ has nothing to do with it. When a person holds diametrically opposed value systems it called split level functioning and requires therapeutic intervention Christ was neither knowlegable about, or capable, of to produce a fully functioning and rational individual.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-19   1:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: rlk (#24)

What's the split level here?

The example of Christ is relevant. He was Holy and by the Law should not be in contact with sin and the unclean. However given His mission of Grace He offered both physical and spiritual healing.

So the pastor can oppose the emperor's policies, vote for another candidate, protest in front of an abortion clinic, write an OP ED blasting the evil decisions of the government etc.

What the pastor points out it is our right to do all of the above should be tempered with Christian compassion. Pray for your enemies to see the light. Not condone or join them. Getting on social media calling the emperor a bastard May feel good but does such behavior honor God? No.

So there is no pathology in sincere compassion for the spiritually blind.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   2:11:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#25) (Edited)

there is no pathology in sincere compassion for the spiritually blind.

If you want to conduct your life as some kind of '60 love-in, go ahead and live that way. As for me, it somebody messes with me, they can look down the barrel of a 44 magnum for salvation.

Prayer and unconditional love doesn't work. At various times half the world's human population was slaughtered or enslaved. Many of them were praying to their god for hope. The only hope for survival from aggressive psychopaths in this world is a good rifle, or a good sword, and ability to use it.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-19   2:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13 (#19)

"May God bless and keep the Czar... far away from us!"

"There is no god but the Tzar"

What does this mean in the context of Isaiah 14?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-19   9:37:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: redleghunter (#25)

So there is no pathology in sincere compassion for the spiritually blind.

What's the pathology of the American founders who "HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN" ?


Hail Caesar, NOT!

Eff the Emperor and the Sunny Temporal Zionist / Sunni dialectic jackwagon he Rhode in on.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-19   9:45:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: redleghunter (#0) (Edited)

Peter told his readers to “honor everyone.” Then after exhorting them to “fear God,” he exhorted them to “honor the Emperor.”

We must honor those in power above us because God placed them there and gave them their authority. Paul said, “For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God” (Romans 13:1). Therefore, God calls us to honor President Obama.

Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 2, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, and intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.” (1 Timothy 2:1– 2). God commands us to pray for our leaders. Do you?

Twice above Mr. Altrogge quotes Paul, and then immediately follows up by saying "God commands..."

Either Mr. Altrogge has a reading comprehension problem, or he thinks Paul is God.

Paul was a Bishop. Peter was the first Pope. Both wrote to members of their flock in a specific time, place and culture. Neither writer is God, and neither writer has the power, or was ever granted the power, to make commandments upon man binding for all time. God alone can do that, and Pope Peter and Bishop Paul are not God.

Of course, what Paul and Peter had to say about the Roman authorities and Church authorities of their time bears hearing and consideration. To confuse their wisdom with commandments of God, however, is...well, it's typical of a certain mindset that doesn't work very well.

What did JESUS say and do? That's the question that matters.

HE said: don't worry about the things of this world. Focus on God.

So do that and stop worrying about Obama either way. He doesn't MATTER. THAT'S what GOD said.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-19   14:06:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: rlk (#26)

If you want to conduct your life as some kind of '60 love-in, go ahead and live that way. As for me, it somebody messes with me, they can look down the barrel of a 44 magnum for salvation.

Prayer and unconditional love doesn't work. At various times half the world's human population was slaughtered or enslaved. Many of them were praying to their god for hope. The only hope for survival from aggressive psychopaths in this world is a good rifle, or a good sword, and ability to use it.

60s "love in" hardly. I said sincere compassion not unconditional love of evil doers. Unconditional love would mean I would let some psycho murder my family and not attempt to defend them. That's not what I was getting at. In several posts I have clearly said we must oppose evil. Not accept it, nor encourage it or give evil a passive nod.

One can hate the evil while pray for the redemption of the evil doer.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   14:15:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Vicomte13 (#29)

What did JESUS say and do? That's the question that matters.

HE said: don't worry about the things of this world. Focus on God.

So do that and stop worrying about Obama either way. He doesn't MATTER. THAT'S what GOD said.

I understand your approach and agree with the above.

Where we differ is that I see the epistles of the apostles as Holy Spirit inspired and not an OP/ED piece for good Christian living. The apostles were teaching what Jesus taught them or revealed to them. Luke 24 clearly lays this out when Jesus gave the disciples/apostles and understanding of the TaNaKh and how to find Him there.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   14:23:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: redleghunter (#31)

Where we differ is that I see the epistles of the apostles as Holy Spirit inspired and not an OP/ED piece for good Christian living. The apostles were teaching what Jesus taught them or revealed to them. Luke 24 clearly lays this out when Jesus gave the disciples/apostles and understanding of the TaNaKh and how to find Him there.

Jesus gave Peter separately, and the Apostles together, the "Power of the Keys", "to loose and to bind" - "what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven, and what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven".

What is loosed and what is bound? Sin. Jesus gave the Apostles, and the Apostles and their heirs - following the laying on of hands and passing of the Holy Spirit in ordination as described by Paul in his letter to Timothy - do indeed have the power to forgive sin, and to release people from demons and illnesses.

Jesus never gave Apostles the power to make commandments of God. Giving law is the province of God.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-19   15:12:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Vicomte13 (#32)

Jesus never gave Apostles the power to make commandments of God. Giving law is the province of God.

I think it was the pastor who assumed that...Not Paul.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   15:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: redleghunter (#30) (Edited)

One can hate the evil while pray for the redemption of the evil doer.

If one is warped or stupid enough. If you don't mind, I'll keep my emotions true, strong, and uncontaminated by immobilizing bull crap. Many people can not be redeamed. They'll kick you in the teeth and laugh at you for being a sucker while you pray for them.

People such as the Kennedys, Carters, Bushs, Kerrys, Obamas, and Hillarys deserveve all the disgust and disrespect they have worked hard to merit.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-20   0:07:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: redleghunter (#22)

Christ healed willing repentant sinners. He did not embrace their sin.

As a Christian I know most of the emperor's policies are evil. Most because he tries to usurp powers that don't belong to him. I don't support his policies or efforts. I oppose them.

Amen! Praying for your enemies is true humility.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-03-20   1:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: GarySpFC (#35)

Praying for your enemies is true humility.

Be careful you don't get so humble you are unable to think or act with efficacy.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-20   2:07:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: redleghunter (#0)

Why You Should Think Twice before Bad-mouthing Obama

Why You Should Think Twice before not Bad-mouthing Obama.

He has moved heaven and earth to deserve it. Not to do it requires unhealthy self repression and psychological blindness. The absence of responsible criticism also confers permission.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-20   3:13:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: rlk (#37)

He has moved heaven and earth

Try not to give him divine attributes.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-20   4:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Liberator (#13)

yup

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-20   9:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: redleghunter (#0)

Why You Should Think Twice before Bad-mouthing Obama

Does that mean NOBODY is allowed to tell the truth about him?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-03-20   17:41:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Liberator (#7)

" We "dishonor" the Lord by "honoring" Evil. We are called to "resist evil. "

EXACTLY !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-20   21:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: rlk (#34)

You are exactly right.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-20   21:17:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: CZ82 (#40)

Why You Should Think Twice before Bad-mouthing Obama

Does that mean NOBODY is allowed to tell the truth about him?

Not if they are twisted up Christians.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-20   23:10:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: rlk (#43)

What's twisted about opposing evil and praying for your enemies. That was around a lot longer in our American history than the turn and burn of today.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-20   23:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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