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Title: Two Officers Shot in Ferguson After White House Declares Open Season on Cops
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 12, 2015
Author: sara noble
Post Date: 2015-03-12 08:20:15 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 31137
Comments: 162

www.independentsentinel.com www.independentsentinel.com

Officer Cries In Pain On One Video

Ferguson “protesters” gathered outside the Ferguson police station following the resignation of Chief Jackson. Shortly after midnight, someone shot two police officers. No one knows who fired, but it appeared the shots were fired directly at the officers.

The DOJ released a scathing report accusing Ferguson police of racism knowing it would reignite the nearly-burned out furor in Ferguson.

A 32-year-old officer from nearby Webster Groves was shot in the face and a 41- year-old officer from St. Louis County was shot in the shoulder, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a news conference. Both were taken to a hospital, where Belmar said they were conscious. He said he did not have further details about their conditions but described their injuries as “serious.”

They weren’t even Ferguson police officers.

You can hear the officers screaming in pain on this video.

There were about 60 to 70 protesters and their behavior prompted the police to send officers in riot gear.

St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar told reporters, “I’ve said many times we cannot sustain this without problems and that’s not a reflection of those expressing their first amendment rights. But this is a very dangerous environment for our officers to work in.”

At least three shots were fired and the wounds were “very serious”, Belmar said.

Some said the shots seemed to come from a house but there was no house nearby and others said they might have come from a small hill.

Prior to the shooting, “protesters” were chanting to show they weren’t satisfied with the resignation of Chief Jackson. Others were angry and potentially dangerous. They smell blood in the water.

One protester said it was mostly peaceful until the shots rang out. Mostly peaceful?!?

If the participants were in the Tea Party, would it be described as mostly peaceful?

The acting head of the Justice Department’s civil rights division released a statement saying the U.S. government remains committed to reaching a “court- enforceable agreement” to address Ferguson’s “unconstitutional practices,” regardless of who’s in charge of the city.

What about the rights of the police who they are endangering with their race baiting?

MSNBC’s Ed Schultz wants Ferguson police disarmed.

The riots/protests were funded by George Soros among others and engineered by Barack Obama and Eric Holder.

The video of the shooting via Matthew Keys:

After the shooting, the leftists chanted this allegedly:

after the shooting

The chanting was utter nonsense. The only ones losing their freedom are the police and the normal people in Ferguson being subjected to these Soros-communist funded riots/protests which are based on a lie. They still have the hands up, don’t shoot posture.

This was one of the “chants”:

And another – “hands up, don’t shoot, stop this shit, we’re bullet proof”.

Don’t expect any words of comfort from the White House or calls to families of the officers.

One confused protester thinks the cops are “trigger happy”.

CNN

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 124.

#2. To: tpaine (#0)

No one knows who fired, but it appeared the shots were fired directly at the officers.

Uh...as opposed to the vast majority of shootings where people are injured by ricochets?

Are these reporters paid by the word to utter such drivel? Do they even have an editor?

They weren’t even Ferguson police officers.

The article doesn't explain why they were present if they weren't Ferguson cops.

Nor is there any exploration of who the protesters were, whether they were Ferguson residents or some thug types from around the greater metro area, as we saw during the riots that attracted every thug in the (larger) city.

It may be that the thugs deliberately shot cops just to provoke them into massacring the crowd to create another incident. Sharpton's crew is fully capable of it.

The riots/protests were funded by George Soros among others and engineered by Barack Obama and Eric Holder.

Any proof of that or will the accusation be enough to flack this sad-sack hatchet job?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   8:39:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#2)

It may be that the thugs deliberately shot cops just to provoke them into massacring the crowd to create another incident. Sharpton's crew is fully capable of it.

The zoo animals will reap what they sow... when they force a little roof top Justice.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-12   8:52:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: GrandIsland (#3)

The zoo animals will reap what they sow... when they force a little roof top Justice.

Like that is a desirable solution.

Given Ferguson's history (and constant looting of the citizens as a notable bandit town), why don't the police have some cameras outside the station? You'd think that some cop would at least pull out a smartphone and try to record all the protesters' faces in the event of rioting or unrest. Or cops getting shot in front of a police station.

The scammy website this is from has insecure, possibly malware, scripting on it.

Here are the two vids, direct from YouBoob.

Given such a lousy article, we get more actual info from these lo-res vids. And that police HQ doesn't look like a poverty-stricken precinct that can't afford cameras. They're blowing plenty of money on electricity for decorative outside lighting.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   9:01:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#5)

Like that is a desirable

Neither is being a target because you wear a uniform.

See, every once in a while, you spin. Not as much as some others... but you do spin. I never suggested it would be desirable... sticking your hand in your toilet to clean it isn't desirable... but if you keep shitting all over the bowl... it's a must.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-12   9:21:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: GrandIsland (#7)

See, every once in a while, you spin. Not as much as some others... but you do spin.

Because I suggested that vigilantes firing from rooftops isn't desirable?

Yes, I am guilty of that, I suppose. Not sure why that is so heinous or considered grounds for being accused of "spin".

Reuters filed a story, not much better than this one:

The violence grew out of a Wednesday night demonstration in which several dozen protesters gathered in front of the Ferguson police department, just hours after Police Chief Thomas Jackson resigned.

The night started peacefully but about two dozen officers clad in riot gear later faced off with the protesters. At least two people were taken into custody.

Gunshots rang out about midnight turning a scene of relative quiet into pandemonium. Many of the remaining few dozen demonstrators fled, some screaming.

The line of police scrambled, with many taking defensive positions drawing their weapons and some huddling behind riot shields, according to a video published online.

Belmar said the shooter was among the demonstrators standing across from the officers.

"I don't know who did the shooting, to be honest with you right now, but somehow they were embedded in that group of folks," he said.

Protesters at the scene, however, said on social media that the shots did not come from where they were standing.

"The shooter was not with the protesters. The shooter was atop the hill," activist DeRay McKesson said on Twitter.

"I was here. I saw the officer fall. The shot came from at least 500 feet away from the officers," he said.

I'd like to know more about the firearms used. If it was rifle ammo, then maybe the shots rang out from the Grassy Knoll, as the protesters said. If the slugs are from a pistol, most likely it came from the protester ranks.

Apparently, ballistics is a forgotten police science in Ferguson.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   9:49:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: TooConservative (#14)

I'd like to know more about the firearms used. If it was rifle ammo, then maybe the shots rang out from the Grassy Knoll, as the protesters said. If the slugs are from a pistol, most likely it came from the protester ranks.

Apparently, ballistics is a forgotten police science in Ferguson.

Do you think ANY serious, honest investigation will be forthcoming in this case??

(come on - really.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-12   9:57:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Liberator, Grand Island (#18)

Do you think ANY serious, honest investigation will be forthcoming in this case??

It's hard to imagine they'll fail to do ballistics tests and identify the type of bullets and guns used.

Maybe they'll be those 5.56 NATO steel-tipped NATO rounds that BATFE wants to ban. But it would be hard for that cop to take one to the face and still have a face left.

I'm leaning toward pistol rounds, fired within 20'. Given that there were a few dozen cops in riot gear only feet from the protesters, it seems hard to imagine that someone didn't see a flash from the gun or something to indicate where the bullet originated.

Maybe they were having a donut break and wear too busy to watch the crowd.

I still don't grasp why the cops went out in riot gear on their front step. It seems purposeless to me. "Hey, you darned protesters, get off our lawn!"

Seems dumb but maybe you had to be there to get why the supervising officer sent them out.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   10:18:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#22) (Edited)

It's hard to imagine they'll fail to do ballistics tests and identify the type of bullets and guns used.

Maybe they'll be those 5.56 NATO steel-tipped NATO rounds that BATFE wants to ban. But it would be hard for that cop to take one to the face and still have a face left.

I like the way you're thinking here. Of course your theory that 5.56 wouldn't leave much face would obviously disprove that this round was used, but I wouldn't expect "investigators," the media, and the Regime to dismiss rhetoric and propaganda that would be so useful.

I'm leaning toward pistol rounds, fired within 20'. Given that there were a few dozen cops in riot gear only feet from the protesters, it seems hard to imagine that someone didn't see a flash from the gun or something to indicate where the bullet originated.

In a universe where there's an honest investigation. law, and justice? Yeah. ("Remember: SELMA!!!!")

I still don't grasp why the cops went out in riot gear on their front step. It seems purposeless to me. "Hey, you darned protesters, get off our lawn!"

HA!

Well, there's two trains of thought -- strap it on, OR, play it passively (which would be perceived as weak.) Look -- Ferguson is Ground Zero for "The Beginning."

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-12   10:43:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Liberator (#29)

I'm leaning toward pistol rounds, fired within 20'.

If they fired from the crowd under fluid nighttime conditions and managed to hit two cops, I assume they had to be close. Or they were really terrific shots with a pistol. Given the gunslinging skills of your average homeboy, I'm thinking they were close, not expert pistoleros from Da Hood.

[Notice how I deftly managed to reply to myself while only pretending to reply to you? LOL.]

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   10:51:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: TooConservative (#33)

If they fired from the crowd under fluid nighttime conditions and managed to hit two cops, I assume they had to be close.

Good assumption,given the fact that the typical black thug almost always missed the guy he is shooting at and hits children 10 feet away from them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-12   16:56:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: sneakypete (#45) (Edited)








Italians: be gone!

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   17:28:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: TooConservative (#46) (Edited)

Italians: be gone!

Fixed?

tpaine  posted on  2015-03-12   17:36:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: tpaine (#48) (Edited)


Yeah, I tried. I think it's twisted in a HTML knot with unclosed B and I and SPAN tags mixed together. You can confuse a browser if you do enough of those.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   17:42:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: TooConservative (#49)

Is it busted forever?

tpaine  posted on  2015-03-12   17:47:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: tpaine, Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Murron (#50)

I dunno. Neil might know a trick. Otherwise, it's just this thread that's borked. Or Stone could just delete Murron's comment.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-12   18:05:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: TooConservative, tpaine, A K A Stone, Murron (#51)

I dunno. Neil might know a trick.

It can be fixed by admin editing the offending comment and removing the stray bold tag.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-13   3:02:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Pinguinite, TooConservative, tpaine, A K A Stone (#64)

It can be fixed by admin editing the offending comment and removing the stray bold tag.

HUH? What 'offending comment' did I post?

Murron  posted on  2015-03-15   14:48:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Murron (#65)

HUH? What 'offending comment' did I post?

I'll suggest that Pinguinite isn't saying you comment was offensive, in the literal term... but he/she is suggesting that your comment is the "offender" that caused the corrupt text to be continued down this thread.

He or she is saying you are guilty of Aggravated Font Change in the 1st degree. A LF Class B Misdemeanor. Sentence, already served.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-15   14:58:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: GrandIsland, Murron (#66)

As much as I disagree with GI on many important issues, in this case s/he is correct. It's not offending in the literal sense, only "offending" in the context of the font spillover that damaged the thread display. Some how, a comment ended up with a stray Bold & Italic HTML codes that got through the normally tight HTML clean-up code that runs right before comments are posted. My hat's off to you if you managed that, and it's something to figure out.

But at the moment I posted the fix solution, "offending comment" was the first descriptor that came to mind, so that's what I called it. I think I was in a bit of a hurry at the time. I wrote that even without knowing in who's comment the stray HTML code was introduced.

Cheers...

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-15   16:55:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Pinguinite (#67)

As much as I disagree with GI on many important issues

Say what... can't be true. lol

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-15   17:06:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: GrandIsland (#68)

Say what... can't be true. lol

Well, I was surprised to see you getting so hard lined about smoking rights, even to the point of telling neighbors they can go pound sand if they don't like smoke entering their homes. Why this wouldn't apply to say, marijuana smoke along with tobacco is a puzzle to me though. Seems you would object to all of your neighbors complaining about your smoking, but submissively give in to the demands of legislatures voted into power by the exact same neighbors that would put the exact same prohibition on a sheet of paper and call it a "law". Is that right?

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-15   18:56:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Pinguinite (#69) (Edited)

Well, I was surprised to see you getting so hard lined about smoking rights, even to the point of telling neighbors they can go pound sand if they don't like smoke entering their homes. Why this wouldn't apply to say, marijuana smoke along with tobacco is a puzzle to me though. Seems you would object to all of your neighbors complaining about your smoking, but submissively give in to the demands of legislatures voted into power by the exact same neighbors that would put the exact same prohibition on a sheet of paper and call it a "law". Is that right?

No. I don't feel I'm hard lined about a smokers rights. I loath smoke like any other ex smoker.

I'm hard lined at the rights of legal activity INSIDE your home. I feel that if you are doing something legal inside your home, you shouldn't be restricted at all.

Obviously, living in row housing, apartment buildings, condos and trailer parks causes a closer habitat to your smelly and loud neighbors. If you might be bothered by what your neighbor LEGALLY does INSIDE their home, then buy a single family home with a large lot.

Look, by code, there is a brick or cinder block firewall between the two homes. There is no reason the complainer can't seal up every hole inside his house... to keep the smokers smoke out.

Telling a person they can't smoke in their own home is a slippery slope. It's the kind of slippery slope that has allowed big brother government to not only feel like they must exist or citizens can't survive... but the pathway that allows governmrnt rights and loss of citizen freedoms.

You can't possibly be against intrusive government and in the same breath support a court action telling a homeowner that they can't smoke in a house he's lives in for 50 years.

I feel the burden is on the smoke hating complainer for change... or even to move.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-15   20:03:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: GrandIsland (#70)

You are apparently avoiding the point of my question, but... okay....

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-16   0:15:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Pinguinite (#71) (Edited)

Why this wouldn't apply to say, marijuana smoke along with tobacco is a puzzle to me though.

It would if recreational marijuana was legal in the state in question. When you learn the difference between illegal and legal activity, well then your puzzle is solved.

No where in the constitution does it give you the right to break constitutional laws inside your home. Drug laws are constitutional.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-16   0:44:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: GrandIsland (#72)

You still miss my point. Perhaps your time in law enforcement has biased your perspective.

For you, there's apparently a strong distinction between "legal" and "illegal" activity. But at the same time, you state that you have a moral right to tell everyone in your community to go fly a kite if they all came to you to tell you you can't smoke in your house.

But these people are also voters. If they *vote* to make smoking in your home illegal, would you then adhere to the "law" they enacted and comply with their demand, and agree that you no longer have a moral right to smoke in your house?

In one case, you refuse to adhere to the will of the people, and in the other, you would acquiesce to it. Does your moral right to do as you please in your own home change *solely* because of the degree of the formality taken by the majority of your neighbors to decree what is and is not legal activity?

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-16   1:41:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Pinguinite (#74)

But these people are also voters. If they *vote* to make smoking in your home illegal, would you then adhere to the "law" they enacted and comply with their demand, and agree that you no longer have a moral right to smoke in your house?

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

No law prohibiting smoking, inside your own home, would ever stand the test of constitutionality. When you compare it to marijuana, it isn't "smoking it" that's illegal in your home.... IT'S POSSESSING IT. it's a banned substance in most states, and that's a constitutionally tested law.

Yes, smoking marihuana, IN PUBLIC, is also against the law, in most states...but the inside of your home isn't public, now is it.

Your analogy, is ridiculous, at best.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-16   6:25:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: GrandIsland (#75)

Okay, let me get this straight.

Drug laws are constitutional.

Tobacco is a drug.

Marijuana is a drug.

A ban on tobacco would be unconstitutional.

The ban on marijuana is constitutional.

Neither marijuana nor tobacco is mentioned or referred to in any way in the Constitution.

Laws are enacted by the will of the people as a whole.

You have a moral right to reject the will of the people with regard to tobacco, but not the will of the people with regard to marijuana.

Is there any item listed here that is incorrect?

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-16   13:30:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Pinguinite (#76)

Tobacco is a drug.

Tobacco is not classified as a drug. I stopped reading your reply at the word "tobacco"

I don't entertain spin. Reword and resubmit your response

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-16   15:08:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: GrandIsland (#77)

Tobacco is not classified as a drug. I stopped reading your reply at the word "tobacco"

Had you continued reading, you would have seen:

Is there any item listed here that is incorrect?

No, this is not about "spin". Not by me, at least. This is about trying to understand your logic. I'm a bit puzzled that you have exhibited both a sense of freedom to do in your home what you please with regard to tobacco, but not with regard to marijuana. But okay, I'll reword:

* Drug laws are constitutional.

* Tobacco is not classified by law as a drug, and legislatures are constitutionally banned from classifying it as a drug, and therefore cannot ban tobacco.

* Marijuana is classified by law as a drug, though legislatures are free to classify it as a non-drug if they so choose.

* A ban on marijuana is constitutional because legislatures have decided to classify it as a drug.

* Neither marijuana nor tobacco is mentioned or referred to in any way in the Constitution.

* Laws are enacted by the will of the people as a whole.

* You have a moral and Constitutional right to reject the will of the people with regard to tobacco, but no moral or Constitutional right to reject the will of the people with regard to marijuana.

All in all, I find your position very arbitrary. Your moral foundation of what is right and wrong is based simply on what laws have been passed, and laws passed are simply the result of popular sentiment (or all too often, just lobbying by special interests). This includes what is and is not considered a drug. The medical establishment does indeed classify nicotine and alcohol as drugs.

Slavery was once found to be Constitutional, but that didn't make it right. If tobacco was classified as a drug by statute, and then banned (something that actually could happen in the future if popular sentiment goes that far) would you then suddenly agree it's morally reasonable for a man to be prohibited by court order to not smoke tobacco in his home?

Is your moral compass simply in tune with laws, and nothing else? It seems from your postings that's precisely the case. I would say today's police officers have lost touch with the people they are supposed to serve and protect for that exact reason.

And I think we're called to be more than that.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-17   4:00:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Pinguinite (#78)

All in all, I find your position very arbitrary. Your moral foundation of what is right and wrong is based simply on what laws have been passed, and laws passed are simply the result of popular sentiment

Picking and choosing which constitutionally tested laws you will obey is worse than a slippery slope... It's a dangerous ideal. It will decay society (look around you, we are seeing it now and it's magnified in Ferguson). It's no different than officers that picks and chooses what laws they will enforce.

This concept I'll never waiver on... there are many laws I don't like. I'll obey them or I'll move to another state, like I did with the Adolf Cuomo's SafeAct.

Aside from that very essential ideal, we live in a free society. If we aren't breaking the law inside our castle... we need to be left alone. Regardless how much my activity inside my home bothers you. Obey my lawful activity freedom or MOVE like I did.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-17   6:26:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: GrandIsland (#80)

Picking and choosing which constitutionally tested laws you will obey is worse than a slippery slope... It's a dangerous ideal.

A slippery slope is what we are already on. You claim drug laws have been "constitutionally tested" and yet the only drug that appears in the constitution is alcohol. Congress has never been constitutionally authorized to ban any other drug. But courts have invented this "living document" doctrine by which they claim some law is "constitutional" even though it clearly is not. Because of that, more and more rights are trashed every year, such as the 4th Amendment, and it's the police that are the tools of the state which are used to violate these rights. Those on the police force become mindless, robots of the state, and essentially religious fanatics of sorts, enforcing any and every statute against a peaceful people because "the law is the law", or worse, with civil asset forfeiture, themselves become greedy, legalized looters of law abiding citizens.

By your own ideals, tobacco can one day be banned along with marijuana and the ban can be called "constitutional", and you'll have no choice but to accept that as law inside the home of every American. That will always be a real possibility, and your stated belief that such a think is impossible probably is a lot like the founders belief that the numerous articles in the Bill of Rights couldn't possibly be violated. But that's the USA today. And you think my position is a slippery slope? No it's not. A slippery slope is what the US has been on for a long time.

My ideals are staying put right where they are. Thanks for playing....

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-17   14:24:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Pinguinite (#81)

A slippery slope is what we are already on.

Even if that were true, two wrongs don't make a right.

Pick and choose what laws you'll follow AT YOUR OWN RISK... I can respect that. Respect the fact that you won't ever get my blessing.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-17   14:46:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: GrandIsland (#82)

Even if that were true, two wrongs don't make a right.

The D of I says when a gov becomes tyrannical and no longer serves the interests of the people, it's the moral right and duty of the people to overthrow it.

If cops break into your home to get you to stop smoking, or if cops take all your money without charging you with a crime, both under the color of law....

There is a limit to what should be morally tolerated.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-17   15:25:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Pinguinite (#83)

If cops break into your home to get you to stop smoking, or if cops take all your money without charging you with a crime, both under the color of law....

Neither is happening. Like I said, pick and choose what laws you will follow AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Good luck.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-17   16:03:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: GrandIsland (#85)

Neither is happening.

Wrong. Civil asset forfeiture IS happening, every day. I'm sure it won't happen to you since you are "one of the boys" and once you show the cops you are one of them they will instantly become your pals and they won't take your money or stuff. But the rest of us not in the club won't have that luxury. We'll be treated like lower scum because the cop rolling up to the scene will already "know my type" at a glance just as you proclaimed about me here and I'll be treated accordingly.

That is true and you know it.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-17   18:39:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Pinguinite (#88)

Wrong. Civil asset forfeiture IS happening, every day. I'm sure it won't happen to you since you are "one of the boys"

Negative, I won't be a "victim" of "asset forfeiture" because to actually be able to keep those assets as a LE agency, YOU MUST GET A CONVICTION on the crimes associated with the assets.

I don't violate drug laws. I get high on life.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-17   18:54:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: GrandIsland (#90)

Negative, I won't be a "victim" of "asset forfeiture" because to actually be able to keep those assets as a LE agency, YOU MUST GET A CONVICTION on the crimes associated with the assets.

Either you've not been keeping track of what your successors have been up to since you left the force, or you've been smoking something other than tobacco.

You don't need to be convicted or even charged to lose your property. Here's just one easily found youtube on the matter.

Having this discussion with you is becoming increasingly depressing.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-03-18   0:13:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Pinguinite (#101)

The difference between you and I is this, I base my ideals on direct knowledge. I've dealt with asset forfiture. I know what a department must do, the hoops they must go through before the asset is finally awarded to the department. You base your vast constitutional law degree on YouTube videos.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-18   6:30:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: GrandIsland, Biff Tannen, Pinguinite, nolu chan (#108)

I've dealt with asset forfeiture.

You dealt with asset forfeiture in the state of New York.

There are also federal forfeiture laws and all the other states and territories have their own forfeiture laws, many with considerable differences between them.

Even in states with abusive forfeiture laws, not every PD is using them abusively. But some bandit towns will use every provision to line their pockets.

It is a pattern that is quite clear. It is useless for G.I. to pretend that the forfeiture laws of NY state are operable elsewhere in the country. We all know they are not.

I see that Wyoming (among the worst forfeiture laws among the States) got a bill passed to curb abuses and the governor vetoed it. Apparently, Minnesota passed a big reform bill that really cleaned things up, kind of a model reform bill for other states. Tennessee is trying but didn't get the job done yet AFAIK.

Holder rescinding the federal program does help in more ways than is readily apparent because many of the states' seizures were actually justified under looser federal laws, not under criminal statutes in the states where they were passed. We don't know if the new A.G. will leave Holder's order in place or will subvert it to maximize police/federal partnership in looting the citizens. It is certainly a black mark on Holder that he tolerated these abuses constantly until he signed an order to abolish much of the abuse just as he was shutting off the lights in his A.G. office and leaving. A despicable act.

I wish I could find better state-by-state comparisons on this because I think most people would be surprised at how much variety there is among the States on forfeiture. Also, not every locale in every state uses these laws abusively. You can have a bandit town anywhere in the country, making use of forfeitures to line their pockets and keep taxes down for themselves or to fund police expansion and other goodies without having to ask elected officials for the funds. It's mad money that the cops can spend as they please generally. Under normal budgeting, there is a lot more discipline and regulation of funds.

Maybe nolu knows a source that could settle this matter of how local the issue of forfeiture really is.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-18   10:58:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: TooConservative (#114)

There are also federal forfeiture laws and all the other states and territories have their own forfeiture laws, many with considerable differences between them.

I have no direct knowledge on federal asset forfiture. I'm sure the Feds do the same after a federal conviction. I'll assume they have more red tape than we had to seize property permanently... but I have nothing to base that assumption on.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-18   13:15:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: GrandIsland, nolu chan (#116)

I have no direct knowledge on federal asset forfiture. I'm sure the Feds do the same after a federal conviction. I'll assume they have more red tape than we had to seize property permanently... but I have nothing to base that assumption on.

My reading indicates that in some states, PDs will use the federal forfeiture laws because their state's laws are not flexible enough for their booty grab. The federal forfeiture is claimed to be a much lower standard than in many states.

I looked a little longer to find some summary of this state-by-state but maybe it's too complex a topic to fit in a neat table with columns and rows.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-18   17:14:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 124.

#125. To: TooConservative (#124)

My reading indicates that in some states, PDs will use the federal forfeiture laws because their state's laws are not flexible enough for their booty grab. The federal forfeiture is claimed to be a much lower standard than in many states.

I don't doubt it... but the original crime charge would probably have to be a federal crime charge instead of a state charge.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-18 17:44:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 124.

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