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Title: Should Christians Be Hospitable to Cult Members?
Source:
Grace to You
URL Source: http://www.gty.org/resources/bible- ... ble-to-cult-members?Term=cults
Published: Mar 11, 2015
Author: John MacArthur
Post Date: 2015-03-11 16:41:49 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 40782
Comments: 144
In verse 10 John sets out one practical application of how to defend the truth: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house. Hospitality for traveling teachers was common in the culture (cf. Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12). The prohibition here is not to turn away the ignorant; it does not mean that believers may not invite unbelievers—even those who belong to a cult or false religion—into their midst. That would make giving the truth to them difficult, if not impossible. The point is that believers are not to welcome and provide care for traveling false teachers, who seek to stay in their homes, thereby giving the appearance of affirming what they teach and lending them credibility John’s use of the conjunction ei (if) with an indicative verb indicates a condition that is likely true. Apparently, the lady to whom he wrote had for whatever reason, in the name of Christian fellowship, already welcomed false teachers into her home. It was just such compassionate, well-meaning people that the false teachers sought out (cf. 2 Tim. 3:6); since churches were supposed to be protected by elders who were skilled teachers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9), they should have been less susceptible to the lies propagated by the deceivers. Having established themselves in homes, the false teachers hoped eventually to worm their way into the churches. It is much the same today, as false teaching insidiously invades Christian homes through television, radio, the Internet, and literature. So threatening are these emissaries of Satan that Jo[h]n went on to forbid even giving them a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. Irenaeus relates that the church father Polycarp, when asked by the notorious heretic Marcion, “Do you know me?” replied, “I do know you—the firstborn of Satan” (Against Heresies, 3.3.4). John himself once encountered Cerinthus (another notorious heretic) in a public bathhouse in Ephesus. Instead of greeting him, however, John turned and fled, exclaiming to those with him, “Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.4).
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#47. To: redleghunter (#46)
Where I used to go to church. There was this fat woman. I didn't care for her much because of her attitude. But she would start saying stuff like scl scil la me nooo dooo all ddeee ruuf oorr allleemay. She said she was speaking in tongues. I think she was making it up and wanted to look spiritual to everyone.
The most sincere Christians I have ever met are people who hit the bottom of the barrel and had nowhere else to go. Drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, violent criminals -- people who hit rock bottom and found Christ. Jesus himself hung out with such people. Hitting rock bottom is not a joyful thing. It's a painful experience that causes deep personal reflection. Many Americans all too frequently forget this. More later. Thanks for the discussion.
Like the the Bakkers and Jimmy Swaggart who all ran around PRAISING THE LORD. Oh, but your Church doesn't apply to Matthew 6. I hope that you are thoughtful enough to understand how this all looks to those who are outside the PRAISE THE LORD tradition. A slick haired preacher, a big mega-church... CHA CHING... RING UP THE BUCKS...
I kinda like the high-white sparkling, polished teeth and the sexy wives, myself. Wasn't Tammy Bakker a real looker?
I am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads. In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution. The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible.
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
I think she was making it up and wanted to look spiritual to everyone. And of course since you did not like her, she always had some bad omen for you that only she could know:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
What do you mean by that? Oh, I see, you mean the ones with teeth "like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them."
The most sincere Christians I have ever met are people who hit the bottom of the barrel and had nowhere else to go. Drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, violent criminals -- people who hit rock bottom and found Christ. Jesus himself hung out with such people. Hitting rock bottom is not a joyful thing. It's a painful experience that causes deep personal reflection. Many Americans all too frequently forget this. That is very true. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted and lost. In fact, we are all lost in one way or another. Hitting rock bottom, as you said, is horrible for someone to endure, but may just be the Grace God shows to a person to reveal freedom through Jesus Christ. Only Jesus Christ can break our bonds of sin and death. Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Our day or some undefined day in God's experience. Other scripture indicates that God does not experience a day in the way we do, like a thousand years being as a day to God. Reading about the seven days of creation as though they are 24-hour days on planet earth isn't demonstrably accurate. We like it but that doesn't mean that it is true.
Usually, the "prophet" requires an "interpreter" to tell you what they were babbling about. It's like a crazy mumbo-jumbo version of Simon Says.
Would your post fit on my license plate frame? Or a bumper sticker? IF it did, my car would be keyed in a parking lot in about 20 minutes. Self-proclaimed "gods" don't appreciate that type of "intolerance." ;-)
Willie, Vic has done some exhaustive studies on the above so I pinged him. After day 4, we can logically conclude all days were 24 hour days as the sun, moon and stars were created on day 4. However, even on the first day of creation there is "let there be light" and we see recorded "So the evening and the morning were the first day." We also see much later in Exodus the Israelites confirming a 6 day creation with a one day Sabbath. People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory. It usually makes them comfortable at cocktail parties with liberal atheists.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
I'm calling BS, Choo-Choo Willie. You don't look a day over 4800 years-old.
It usually makes them comfortable at cocktail parties with liberal atheists. ZING! (My mind is still blown by so-called "intellectuals" who look in a mirror, examine life, then claim they need "evidence" of "God.")
It's that 2-pack-a-day habit I had for many years...
I can't look what is in their hearts. It's not for me to judge. Yet you are doing exactly THAT; JUDGING. SUGGESTION: Turn off your Tee-Bee. Stop re-interpreting the Bible. And give up on ever receiving your refund on that fifty bucks your sent Swaggart back in 1984. Not that *I* am judging *you.* (See how that works?)
Say hey -- the important thing is that you finally quit the smokes. And nowadays, all you need is a parrot on your shoulder, Dr. Hook! (*squawk* "BUILD THE TRAIN TRACKS AND THEY WILL COME!! ARRRRGH!!")
Of which you can then strike up a conversation with your would be vandals and show them: Isaiah 61 King James Version (KJV) 61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Actually, the creation account in Genesis is one that describes most directly the creation of earth and possibly major elements of our solar system. Genesis doesn't speak of other stars, other galaxies, and the wider universe. A real god of this universe would consider Earth a small operation among His vast holdings. Maybe along the lines of the regard you have for for a nice shrub or bush on your property. Jesus did say, "In my Father's house are many mansions"... Who (or what) are in all those other mansions? The Father may be operating on a scale unimaginably larger than we can conceive. Being a little contrarian at times, I always try to assume that He is. We can never make God too big but we often make Him too small.
I like buckeroo. I recall a memorable thread at 4um where the two of us valiantly defended the poor Israeli bulldozer that was so viciously attacked by that invader, Rachel Corrie.
Here is an example of Jesus praying out loud. So you are wrong.... 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Good example.... And recall how Jesus taught the people how to pray to the Father....at His Sermon on the Mount? IN PUBLIC!! That Jesus -- wadda show-off!!
Maybe Isaiah 61: 1-2 could be the bumper-sticker on the right side of the rear bumper. Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
No, the speed of light is a known constant, so the approximate size and age of the known Universe is readily calculable. The problem is that, 5000 years ago, nomadic Jewish shepherds didn't have the Internet or Wikipedia to look-up these scientific facts. They had to jot it all down in indecipherable hieroglyphics on crumbly parchment paper. Cripes, they even did it bass-ackwards right-to-left instead of writing it left-to-right like modern, civilized people do.
I forget why I got banned there... maybe for defending Goldi-Lox... but who knows? That water went over the dam long, long ago... But if you ever come across Jethro Tull, send him my regards... we didn't always see eye-to-eye (nobody ever does) but Jethro was always good for a civil, intelligent discussion.
Jesus got off on a technicality, having specifically warned them against rote recitations (like Our Fathers and Hail Marys to give an example that conveniently comes to mind). Very lawyerly instructions on how to pray. And despite His warnings against rote prayer, hundreds of millions of Christians use that specific prayer as a rote recital prayer, unaware of the irony.
On FR you were questioning Free Market cult.
You mean this McEarth may be one of God's tiny franchises?? Maybe God's written a "Genesis" account for billions of planets. With several billion VERY busy "Sons" serving and spreading the Gospel to Clingons and Romulans, etal. ("Hey! Where's MY Genesis??!?")
I know, I know. As the heretics like to say: "Prove from scripture that it isn't!". Don't strain your back gathering firewood and kindling for my upcoming auto-de-fé. Here's a lovely one from 1680, a full stadium event.
In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution. The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible. I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
Very lawyerly instructions on how to pray. Chyeah -- like HE wuz soooo special?? Well, it's not as though Jesus instructed repetition in the 'Our Father.' (Unless of course as part of penance in the Confessional thru Father Flanagan.) As to a 'Hail Mary,' "Go looong! I'll hit you with a bomb, Homes!" Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??") I'll provide other accounts: Mealtime Grace; Leading two or more in prayer. We discern between that and a peanut vendor at Yankee Stadium.
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken. I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola." Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Do you have the audio?? (eyes straining) I can't tell if that's 1680's version of Jonathan Edwards OR Joel Osteen.
"Conservative" in what context?? I'm thinking of getting magnet bumper stickers for his car. One with "COEXIST" and the other "Veterans for Obola." Do you think that would be uncharitable. I mean they are magnetic type stickers and not permanent:) Oh, that's gonna leave a mark. (I approve ;-)
As opposed to promoting all the benefits of the Union-Commie Cult??
The problem is that, 5000 years ago, nomadic Jewish shepherds didn't have the Internet or Wikipedia to look-up these scientific facts. They had to jot it all down in indecipherable hieroglyphics on crumbly parchment paper. Cripes, they even did it bass-ackwards right-to-left instead of writing it left-to-right like modern, civilized people do. If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on. Creation was a miracle just as Christ fed the 5000 with a few fish and loaves. I will ask the question I normally do at this point. Are the miracles of Christ recorded in the Gospels and proclaimed in the NT epistles literal? Meaning did they happen as recorded in Scriptures?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Let's look at the source in Matthew 6 (KJV): 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. Jesus instructs to pray in secret (not in groups reciting prayers) and to avoid rote prayers altogether. Modern Christians of almost every flavor disregard these clear commands from their Savior at least once a year and flaunt their defiance of Jesus in unity. Some of them wear Christian jewelry or T-shirts while doing it, also contrary to Christ's command on such public displays of self-righteous holiness in apparel.
He's a vocal fiscal conservative. Also a close the border conservative. Beyond that anything goes.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
The Biblical tenants and science are incompatible when science contradicts the Holy Bible. Science is always contradicting itself. How often has science findings changed previous scientific findings?
Those cocktail parties are a little less smug than you imagine. Big Bang does have some problems and contradictions, the most glaring of which is its lack of explanation for what happened before the Big Bang. A rising theory is that the universe was never created at all and has existed from all eternity in largely the form it has today. While light matter and dark matter and their associated energy may alter over time, sometimes spectacularly, it doesn't change the overall eternal nature and composition of the universe. I actually like this better than Big Bang which I always found lacking.
Comments (88 - 144) not displayed.
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#48. To: redleghunter (#45)
(Edited)
#49. To: redleghunter (#46)
(Edited)
Osteen is a false prosperity gospel preacher.
#50. To: cranko (#49)
A slick haired preacher, a big mega-church... CHA CHING... RING UP THE BUCKS...
#51. To: A K A Stone (#32)
I am most curious what you base that nonsense of billions of years on. Can you explain it or is it something that was spoon fed to you and you never questioned it?
The decisions you have made in life have led you to where you are at today. If you had believed the good book and not discounted its teachings you wouldn't be a leftist today.
Modify your beliefs. You will then make different decisions. Which will lead you out of the fog that leftists are invariably in.
I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
#52. To: redleghunter (#40)
When we do see metaphor used in Scriptures they are usually direct metaphors. That is "A" is like "B". For example Jesus saying He was the bread of life. We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread. The Living Water. We know Jesus is not literally a well full of water we physically drink. I am the door. Jesus is not a wooden door. These were direct metaphors used to teach a spiritual truth.
#53. To: A K A Stone (#47)
But she would start saying stuff like scl scil la me nooo dooo all ddeee ruuf oorr allleemay. She said she was speaking in tongues.
#54. To: buckeroo, Willie Green (#50)
I kinda like the high-white sparkling, polished teeth...
#55. To: cranko, Vicomte13, liberator, TooConservative (#48)
#56. To: Willie Green (#52)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise...
#57. To: redleghunter (#53)
And of course since you did not like her, she always had some bad omen for you that only she could know:)
#58. To: redleghunter (#55)
Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
#59. To: Willie Green, Vicomte13, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#52)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
#60. To: Willie Green (#51)
I am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy.
#61. To: TooConservative, Gatlin (#54)
Yep, and every time I break wind from the
beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."
#62. To: redleghunter (#59)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
#63. To: Liberator (#60)
I'm calling BS, Choo-Choo Willie. You don't look a day over 4800 years-old.
hopping around on one leg keeps me fit as a fiddle!
#64. To: cranko, redleghunter. (#42)
So they [those who pray in pubic] are faux Christians in your view?
#65. To: Willie Green (#63)
(Edited)
#66. To: Liberator, cranko (#58)
IF it did, my car would be keyed in a parking lot in about 20 minutes. Self-proclaimed "gods" don't appreciate that type of "intolerance."
#67. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, Willie Green (#59)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
#68. To: Willie Green, buckeroo (#61)
Yep, and every time I break wind from the beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."
#69. To: A K A Stone, cranko (#30)
#70. To: redleghunter (#66)
Of which you can then strike up a conversation with your would be vandals and show them...
#71. To: redleghunter (#59)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
#72. To: TooConservative (#68)
I recall a memorable thread at 4um where the two of us valiantly defended the poor Israeli bulldozer that was so viciously attacked by that invader, Rachel Corrie.
#73. To: Liberator (#69)
And recall how Jesus taught the people how to pray to the Father....at His Sermon on the Mount? IN PUBLIC!!
#74. To: Willie Green (#72)
I forget why I got banned there
#75. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, Vicomte13, Willie Green (#67)
A real god of this universe would consider Earth a small operation among His vast holdings.
#76. To: Liberator (#75)
You mean this McEarth may be one of God's tiny franchises??
#77. To: Willie Green (#51)
am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads.
#78. To: TooConservative, releghunter, CZ82 (#73)
Jesus got off on a technicality, having specifically warned them against rote recitations (like Our Fathers and Hail Marys to give an example that conveniently comes to mind).
#79. To: Liberator, TooConservative (#70)
Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
#80. To: TooConservative (#76)
#81. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#79)
There's a loud mouth where I work always telling everyone else how much more 'Conservative' he is compared to the rest of us. FWIW all of us are military veterans, so of course the comments are not well taken.
#82. To: A Pole, Willie Green (#74)
On FR you were questioning Free Market cult.
#83. To: Willie Green (#71)
No, the speed of light is a known constant, so the approximate size and age of the known Universe is readily calculable.
#84. To: Liberator, Vicomte13 (#78)
Yes, "lawyerly," but The Mount was as public as can be (Jesus: "Is this mike on??")
#85. To: Liberator (#81)
"Conservative" in what context??
#86. To: Willie Green (#51)
#87. To: redleghunter (#83)
If that makes you feel better at cocktail parties, Willie, drive on.
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