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Title: Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God
Source:
Blue Letter Bible
URL Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/stud ... n/jonathan_edwards/sinners.cfm
Published: Mar 7, 2015
Author: Jonathan Edwards
Post Date: 2015-03-07 00:07:19 by redleghunter
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Keywords: None
Views: 28409
Comments: 80
(A Sermon Preached at Enfield, July 8th, 1741 at a Time of Great Awakenings, and Attended with Remarkable Impressions on many of the Hearers.) Their foot shall slide in due time.— Deut. 32:35. In this verse is threatened the vengeance of God on the wicked unbelieving Israelites, who were God’s visible people, and who lived under the means of grace; but who, notwithstanding all God’s wonderful works towards them, remained (as Deut. 32:28) void of counsel, having no understanding in them. Under all the cultivations of heaven, they brought forth bitter and poisonous fruit; as in the two verses next preceding the text.—The expression I have chosen for my text, their foot shall slide in due time, seems to imply the following things, relating to the punishment and destruction to which these wicked Israelites were exposed. 1. That they were always exposed to destruction; as one that stands or walks in slippery places is always exposed to fall. This is implied in the manner of their destruction coming upon them, being represented by their foot sliding. The same is expressed, “Surely thou didst set them in slippery places; thou castedst them down into destruction (Psalm 73:18).” 2. It implies, that they were always exposed to sudden unexpected destruction. As he that walks in slippery places is every moment liable to fall, he cannot foresee one moment whether he shall stand or fall the next; and when he does fall, he falls at once without warning: Which is also expressed in “Surely thou didst set them in slippery places; thou castedst them down into destruction: How are they brought into desolation as in a moment? (Psalm 73:18-19)” 3. Another thing implied is, that they are liable to fall of themselves, without being thrown down by the hand of another; as he that stands or walks on slippery ground needs nothing but his own weight to throw him down. 4. That the reason why they are not fallen already and do not fall now is only that God’s appointed time is not come. For it is said, that when that due time, or appointed time comes, their foot shall slide. Then they shall be left to fall, as they are inclined by their own weight. God will not hold them up in these slippery places any longer, but will let them go; and then, at that very instant, they shall fall into destruction; as he that stands on such slippery declining ground, on the edge of a pit, he cannot stand alone, when he is let go he immediately falls and is lost. The observation from the words that I would now insist upon is this.—“There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God.”—By the mere pleasure of God, I mean his sovereign pleasure, his arbitrary will, restrained by no obligation, hindered by no manner of difficulty, any more than if nothing else but God’s mere will had in the least degree, or in any respect whatsoever, any hand in the preservation of wicked men one moment.—The truth of this observation may appear by the following considerations. Poster Comment: And now you have an extraordinary opportunity, a day wherein Christ has thrown the door of mercy wide open, and stands in calling and crying with a loud voice to poor sinners; a day wherein many are flocking to him, and pressing into the kingdom of God. Many are daily coming from the east, west, north and south; many that were very lately in the same miserable condition that you are in, are now in a happy state, with their hearts filled with love to him who has loved them, and washed them from their sins in his own blood, and rejoicing in hope of the glory of God. How awful is it to be left behind at such a day! To see so many others feasting, while you are pining and perishing! To see so many rejoicing and singing for joy of heart, while you have cause to mourn for sorrow of heart, and howl for vexation of spirit! How can you rest one moment in such a condition? Are not your souls as precious as the souls of the people at Suffield, where they are flocking from day to day to Christ?
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#11. To: kenh (#6)
Do you believe in righteous anger?
Nice dodge of two simple questions. Not at all. Here are the passages from Saint Maximus the Confessor, The Church’s Mystagogy chapter 24: The slaves are the faithful who execute the Lord’s commandments out of fear of threats and who willingly work for those who are obeyed.
While Maximus certainly looks like he'd be a riot at a party, I wasn't asking about the theological opinions of 7th century monks. I was asking what NT scripture shows us as the priorities of Jesus, His disciples and the early churches.
The latter convicts, the former shows His Grace.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Mercenaries are those who out of a desire for promised benefits bear with patience "the burden and heat of the day," - that is, the affliction innate in and yoked to the present life from the condemnation of our first parents, and the temptations from it on behalf of virtue, and who by free choice of will wisely exchange life for life, the present one for the future. Though noble, NO man's "virtue" is sufficient to enter the Gates of Heaven by this un-scriptural criteria. This is....deception.
Matthew 25.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
I am not a Protestant and I do not need to separate one part of the Holy Tradition from the rest. I do not believe in the Luther's doctrine of Holy Scriptura either. What Saint Maximus said is true, sufficient and well expressed. I think it is possible to find equivalent passages in the Old and New Testament, although not gathered in one piece. But why should I do it, if I found what I need already in another God inspired text?
The very crux of the Prot argument against Rome.
Did Edwards precisely convey or did he exceed the message of the NT in his famous sermon? I do find proofs-by-parable to be somewhat less certain than more direct statements by Jesus and His primary apostles. They are less concrete.
Fear of punishment seems to be the culturally embedded reason for Irish Catholics:) A good dose of guilt too! Broken down here are some thoughts: Fear of punishment might lead some down two paths: 1. A consciousness of sin in their lives never realized when confronted with the Holiness of God. God is Holy, Holy, Holy. Thus the heart being led to "what must I do to be saved?" (See Acts 16 for such a case). The convicted sinner being led by the Holy Spirit seeks God's Grace. 2. The other path may lead someone to find ways to 'work' towards salvation. To 'work off sins' keeping a balance sheet. "I sinned doing this, I will do this good thing to please God." Thus rejecting the full Grace and Gift of God. Hope of reward: This too has the possibility of somone trying to gain salvation through their own works instead of the Works of Christ. The Works of Christ through the Holy Spirit produce the fruits of the Vine which is our reward. For the Love of God: Out of all three presented reasons, this one most matches a selfless humble approach to God's Throne. A heart regenerated. It acknowledges the failure of our own efforts to attain God's Grace.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Virtue needs to be grown and helped by God's grace of course. Man cannot save himself by his own efforts. But he has to will it because God gave him free will and God does not force people to be saved. Although man is depraved, his depravation is not complete so he has power to search for God, to call to God for help, to accept His help and to cooperate with It. God calls all but only some respond and God finds some more worthy than others even before the call. God offered His Son for all men, although only some decided to benefit from this sacrifice. People have power to reject salvation and even after being saved can turn away and be lost. The Holy Scripture are inspired by the Holy Spirit, but The Holy Spirit did NOT leave The Church in the moment when Church Fathers finished collection, selection and redaction of the Old and New Testament books. No, Holy Spirit is still in Christ Church and remains so until the end of the world. As I said, Luther was mistaken and Calvin was even more mistaken.
The Apostles preached the Gospel of Grace. In doing so they pointed out the penalty of sinners is death.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Well, the Western squabbles between Prots and Rome are domestic dispute that I probably should not get involved. Both sides focused too much on the writings of Blessed Augustine and neglected multitude of other Church Fathers, several of which were better grounded in the Apostolic Tradition.
It's all a Catholic thing, ain't it? (I STILL feel somewhat guilty tossing a piece of bread into the trash without kissing it first :-/
If we want concrete, Paul gives us a mountain of such in Romans. He kicks off the first chapter of the epistle clearly pointing out judgement and Grace.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Succinctly and amply explained.
Man 'cooperating' with God's Grace (semi-pelagianism) was rejected at the Council of Orange (529).
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
With ya...Agree with much of your post. Luther was mistaken and Calvin was even more mistaken. Luther is NOT my Pope, nor source of ecclesiastic authority or Protestant "Vicar of Christ." Q: Why must Luther constantly be invoked as though he is? He merely exposed the hypocrisy of the RCC and its subversion of Christ's message. IS the Holy Bible the inerrant Word of God, or is it not? Bottom Line: "Good works" are the result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit. That said, just a single tiny sin on your "soul account" indicts us (without the free gift of Grace. When Jesus said "It is done," it was done.
Indeed. But because it is not red-lettered, some feel he isn't quite speaking on behalf of the Lord. Shame.
I humbly and graciously thank my Roman Catholic parents, upbringing and education for teaching the beginning of wisdom. “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.”
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
And since the Orthos regard Augustine with considerable suspicion and reservations, you guys are happy enough to let Prots and Romans slug it out. A pox on both of their houses!
While Romans is Paul's masterpiece, it is still -- as with his other epistles -- a letter to a specific congregation with whom he has relations. So while we cannot dismiss Paul or the other epistles, we should place them in perspective with the rest of the NT canon. Is the message of the Gospels a message of love or of fear? Can a person get to heaven solely by fear-induced obedience?
Man 'cooperating' with God's Grace (semi-pelagianism) was rejected at the Council of Orange (529) No Church council is infallible. This was Western / Latin misunderstanding. Blessed Augustin in his rightous zeal of fighting against the real heresy of Pelagius oversimplified the issue and missed the correct position that God's Grace and human free cooperation are BOTH needed and necessary. Saint John Cassian who was a Western/Latin Father too, was more astute and asserted at that time the correct Orthodox doctrine of synergy (cooperation of Divine and human will) that was overlooked or misunderstood and labelled by the Latins as semi-Pelagianism. Unfortunately the theological imperfections of Blessed Augustine took deep roots in the West and expressed in radical form in the teachings of Luther and Calvin.
I can see I have opened a can of worms. : ) I really should know better.
Now that you mention it, it was helpful, and set the proper wheels in motion, didn't it?: FAITH. The wheels for me began to fall off once I saw a priest pull up to a hospital in a 240Z....not the mention Father Hansen strolling thru the playground during Confirmation rehearsal dragging on a Marlboro. Didn't take long for other things not to make much sense.... (FWIW: I'm a kid. Friday. Mistakenly plucked a meatball out of the pot. Mom sorta panics: "oooh...Don't worry, that sin is on my soul." lol...)
What's your opinion?
You may recall that piece of holy toast that sold on eBay for $29,000 about a decade back. And she had taken a bite out of it first! This actually led to products on the market to make holy toast using toast stamps. Mostly, these were products produced to mock Catholic gullibility when they get hypnotized by some sign or wonder, often involving apparitions of Mary. NT scripture, BTW, does not have a high opinion of those whose faith and practice constantly demand signs from God. Jesus spoke against those who demand signs and wonders from God, even though He did perform many miracles, many of them totally unexpected or even outside the general pattern of miracles known to Judaism in the Old Testament. NBC: ‘Virgin Mary grilled cheese’ sells for $28,000 So did the excesses of the eBay Holy Toast auction lift up Christianity's reputation or blacken its name as superstitious nonsense for the gullible? Prots naturally ridiculed the Holy Toast auction, much as Martin Luther ridiculed the excesses of the papal tax as practiced by Tetzel, the pope's bagman. Luther objected to a saying attributed to Johann Tetzel that "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory [also attested as 'into heaven'] springs."
Cool!
I think the NT tells us that love, not fear, is the key to the Pearly Gates. The chances of fear alone getting you into heaven seem pretty remote in my reading. Love of God, leading to obeying God and loving others, is far more elevated in scripture than some mere commonplace religion of static obedience. Which was exactly the kind of religion practiced by the Pharisees and Jewish religious establishment at the time. I think that to suggest salvation is possible based on the fear of God alone misreads many direct sayings of Jesus. Salvation by fear-alone is as suspect to me as the notion of salvation of works-alone. You can see how I keep circling back to the Reformation. This is a fundamental problem in any discussion between Romans, Prots and Orthos, just as it was centuries back.
It's a long way from the old widow giving her last coin to the poor as alms in the NT to Tetzel's shameless huckstering among German peasants to build the insanely wealthy pope a new haunt to glorify himself with and store his vast art treasures. That is where the "living Tradition" took the Western church. Admittedly, the Orthos don't have such blatant and shameless schemes in their history but Rome has never repudiated its own power to do such things, a reason why the Orthos may acknowledge the primacy of Rome but keep a certain distance from any bishop of Rome.
NBC: ‘Virgin Mary grilled cheese’ sells for $28,000 Unreal. No, I did not know that. OR, the other. Prots naturally ridiculed the Holy Toast auction, much as Martin Luther ridiculed the excesses of the papal tax as practiced by Tetzel, the pope's bagman. OUCH. You DO understand were this FR, that the Viking Kitties would make quick work of your insolence and inconvenient historical mention.
Nice explanation, TC. Salvation by fear-alone is as suspect to me as the notion of salvation of works-alone. Fair point, but in Edwards' defense, he seemed to be appealing to an option and realization that for some he needed to push the START button. For others, it caused pause enough to hit the, 'MAINTAIN WARP-FACTOR 9, MR. SULU!'
I survived there a long time and, though they tried, they didn't get me banned for such comments. I was actually being fairly nice in my post here at LF. I was more no-holds-barred at TOS.
Mr. Bombastic? Love to see those threads. These days the FR religious mods are far less tolerant and far more hypersensitive.
My point is that this one sermon does not really represent the entirety of the message of the New Testament canon. Jonathan Edwards might, were he still around, explain that his message was directed toward a particular congregation and their laxity and complacency. And he might defend it on the same grounds as those we would justify Paul's various epistles (other than Romans perhaps) to address problems and errors and rising heresies in local churches which Paul established or among whom he had a considerable reputation as an apostolic authority despite the fact that he was not a personal disciple of Jesus. In short: Christianity is vastly more carrot than stick. Dang, I'm going to run out of hoary worn-out clichés at this rate.
Moi?
Had to chuckle on that one:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Can a person get to heaven solely by fear-induced obedience? Taking the NT canon within context I see the following: The Gospel of Christ has come, Christ has died, Christ has risen is one of Grace and Mercy. Grace that The Father would send His only begotten Son to die for us while we were yet sinners. Grace. However, an evangelist must point out 'what' a person is being saved from and 'why' Christ came in the first place. I think the sermons of Peter and Paul in Acts shows us the context of how the apostles preached the Gospel to those who had ears that could hear. Because those who do not have the ears which can hear will reject the Gospel.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
I recommend you never post that over at TOS:) The FRoman Jesuit hit squad will come for you. (/sarc of course). However, given the statement "No Church council is infallible" opens up a certain 'can of worms' with Sacred oral Tradition. If a council of majority of peers can have even minor errors then how are we to trust this oral Sacred Tradition not found in written Apostolic works in the NT canon? From an Eastern Orthodox position Sacred Scriptures, specifically the 27 book NT canon was endorsed by church fathers. So at least the canon of Holy Scriptures was something most could derive their doctrines and writings from. Is this correct from an Orthodox position?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
It's a pretty pithy summary of the East's actual position. The Orthos would probably say that Rome deserves its Protestants. And vice versa.
I thought it was a grilled cheese sandwich. So there's toast too?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAn anger management class might be helpful.
#12. To: TooConservative (#7)
"This is a paraphrase of a statement by one of the Church Fathers."
the three classes of the saved.
Mercenaries are those who out of a desire for promised benefits bear with patience "the burden and heat of the day," - that is, the affliction innate in and yoked to the present life from the condemnation of our first parents, and the temptations from it on behalf of virtue, and who by free choice of will wisely exchange life for life, the present one for the future.
Finally, sons are the ones who out of neither fear of threats nor desire of promised things but rather out of character and habit of the voluntary inclination and disposition’ of the soul toward the good never become separated from God, as that son to whom it was said, "Son, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours."
#13. To: A Pole (#12)
ere are the passages from Saint Maximus the Confessor, The Church’s Mystagogy chapter 24:
#14. To: TooConservative (#2)
Tell me, what draws people to Christianity: love of God or fear of hell?
#15. To: A Pole (#12)
...The three classes of the saved....
#16. To: TooConservative, liberator (#4)
Would you consider Jesus a hellfire preacher?
#17. To: TooConservative (#13)
I wasn't asking about the theological opinions of 7th century monks. I was asking what NT scripture shows us as the priorities of Jesus, His disciples and the early churches.
#18. To: A Pole (#17)
But why should I do it, if I found what I need already in another God inspired text?
#19. To: redleghunter (#16)
Matthew 25.
#20. To: A Pole, TooConservative, liberator (#3)
Some people are saved because of fear of punishment, some because of hope for reward, some because of love of God.
#21. To: Liberator (#15)
(Edited)
Though noble, NO man's "virtue" is sufficient to enter the Gates of Heaven by this un-scriptural criteria.
This is....deception.
#22. To: TooConservative, A Pole, liberator (#13)
I was asking what NT scripture shows us as the priorities of Jesus, His disciples and the early churches.
#23. To: TooConservative (#18)
The very crux of the Prot argument against Rome.
#24. To: redleghunter, A Pole, TooConservative (#20)
Fear of punishment seems to be the culturally embedded reason for Irish Catholics:) A good dose of guilt too!
#25. To: TooConservative (#19)
I do find proofs-by-parable to be somewhat less certain than more direct statements by Jesus and His primary apostles. They are less concrete.
#26. To: redleghunter (#20)
#27. To: A Pole, TooConservative, liberator (#23)
Well, the Western squabbles between Prots and Rome are domestic dispute that I probably should not get involved. Both sides focused too much on the writings of Blessed Augustine and neglected multitude of other Church Fathers, several of which were better grounded in the Apostolic Tradition.
#28. To: A Pole (#21)
(Edited)
Virtue needs to be grown and helped by God's grace of course. Man cannot save himself by his own efforts. But he has to will it because God gave him free will and God does not force people to be saved.
#29. To: redleghunter (#25)
If we want concrete, Paul gives us a mountain of such in Romans....
#30. To: Liberator (#24)
It's all a Catholic thing, ain't it?
#31. To: A Pole (#23)
Both sides focused too much on the writings of Blessed Augustine...
#32. To: redleghunter (#25)
If we want concrete, Paul gives us a mountain of such in Romans. He kicks off the first chapter of the epistle clearly pointing out judgement and Grace.
#33. To: redleghunter (#27)
#34. To: redleghunter (#27)
Man 'cooperating' with God's Grace (semi-pelagianism) was rejected at the Council of Orange (529).
#35. To: redleghunter (#30)
(Edited)
I humbly and graciously thank my Roman Catholic parents, upbringing and education for teaching the beginning of wisdom.
#36. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#32)
Is the message of the Gospels a message of love or of fear?
#37. To: Liberator, A Pole (#24)
(I STILL feel somewhat guilty tossing a piece of bread into the trash without kissing it first :-/
Always check first that it isn't Holy Toast! 
On 31 October 1517, Luther wrote to his bishop, Albert of Mainz, protesting the sale of indulgences. He enclosed in his letter a copy of his "Disputation of Martin Luther on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences", which came to be known as The Ninety-Five Theses. Hans Hillerbrand writes that Luther had no intention of confronting the church, but saw his disputation as a scholarly objection to church practices, and the tone of the writing is accordingly "searching, rather than doctrinaire." Hillerbrand writes that there is nevertheless an undercurrent of challenge in several of the theses, particularly in Thesis 86, which asks: "Why does the pope, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with the money of poor believers rather than with his own money?"
#38. To: TooConservative (#37)
"As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory [also attested as 'into heaven'] springs."
#39. To: Liberator, A Pole, redleghunter (#36)
What's your opinion?
#40. To: A Pole (#38)
Cool!
#41. To: TooConservative, APole, redleghunter (#37)
You may recall that piece of holy toast that sold on eBay for $29,000 about a decade back. And she had taken a bite out of it first!...
#42. To: TooConservative, A Pole, redleghunter (#39)
(Edited)
#43. To: Liberator (#41)
You DO understand were this FR, that the Viking Kitties would make quick work of your insolence and inconvenient historical mention.
#44. To: TooConservative (#43)
I was more no-holds-barred at TOS.
#45. To: Liberator, redleghunter, A Pole (#42)
Fair point, but in Edwards' defense, he seemed to be appealing to an option and realization that for some he ndeeded to push the START button. For others, it caused pause enough to hit the, 'MAINTAIN WARP-FACTOR 9, MR. SULU!'
#46. To: Liberator (#44)
Mr. Bombastic?
Now my feelings are hurt.
#47. To: TooConservative (#31)
And since the Orthos regard Augustine with considerable suspicion and reservations, you guys are happy enough to let Prots and Romans slug it out. A pox on both of their houses!
#48. To: TooConservative, liberator (#32)
Is the message of the Gospels a message of love or of fear?
#49. To: A Pole, TooConservative, liberator (#33)
No Church council is infallible.
#50. To: redleghunter (#47)
(Edited)
Had to chuckle on that one:)
#51. To: TooConservative, liberator (#37)
Always check first that it isn't Holy Toast!
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