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Title: W.Va. Senate OKs bill to allow concealed carry without permit
Source:
The Charleston Gazette
URL Source: http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20150227/GZ01/150229285
Published: Mar 3, 2015
Author: Eric Eyre
Post Date: 2015-03-03 18:58:33 by Hondo68
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Keywords: inherent right, God given CCW, natural rights
Views: 32047
Comments: 113
Senators approved a bill Friday that could make West Virginia the sixth state to allow residents to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. After reading aloud from the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, senators voted 32-2 for a bill (SB347) that allows people 18 and older to tote concealed guns. “The bill eliminates the crime of carrying a concealed weapon in West Virginia,” said Sen. Charles Trump, R-Morgan. The legislation next goes to the House of Delegates. Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Vermont and Wyoming are the only states that allow residents to carry a hidden gun without a permit. West Virginia already allows open carry of a handgun without a permit. West Virginia law enforcement officials have expressed concern about the bill. They said the legislation could put officers more at risk. They also noted that the weapons-permit fees generate funds for sheriff’s departments across the state. Last year, the permits raised $3.4 million for the departments. However, senators who supported the bill kept coming back to the Second Amendment. “This is a United States constitutional right,” said Robert Karnes, R-Upshur. “The Second Amendment recognizes this inherent right.” Sens. Corey Palumbo, D-Kanawha, and Ron Miller, D-Greenbrier, voted against the bill. Sen. Mike Romano, D-Harrison, supported the concealed-carry permit repeal, but first offered what he called “common-sense” revisions that his colleagues ultimately rejected. Romano wanted to require that residents be at least 21 years old before they could carry a handgun without a permit. “To carry a .357 Magnum, we really should require them to be 21 years of age,” Romano said. But other senators said a 21-and-up age limit was “arbitrary.” “At the age of 18, we’re talking about parents of small children,” Karnes said. “And we’re going to say an 18-year-old who is able to enter into the contract of marriage, to have children, is not responsible enough to defend the family that he has?” Romano also wanted to require people to take a handgun safety course before they could carry a concealed weapon. Karnes argued that the training requirement was a “backdoor licensing scheme,” and senators voted down the amendment. Romano later voted for the bill that didn’t include any of his suggested changes. “I concluded long ago that the permitting process through the sheriff’s department is simply a hurdle for law-abiding citizens who carry a gun,” Romano said. “Criminals will carry a gun regardless of the process.”
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#74. To: TooConservative (#64)
Sounds to me like, in practice, if TPTB want the info released, it will be released, and if they want if withheld, there is ample room to state a reason to withhold it. Think of it being about as private and secure as a social security number for social security purposes only.
I may be wrong,but I think Colt was doing that back in the 30's. I know they were doing it in the 50's because I was using that to bypass my father's excuse to not buy me a surplus 1911A1 because "the ammunition is too expensive". Didn't work,but I was trying. Couldn't get him to buy me a match grade Springfield,either. IIRC,they were less than 15 bucks delivered at the time. With my love of bolt action rifles and historic military rifles,if he had bought one,I would still have it today. IMHO,the 03 versions of the Springfield were the best damn bolt rifles ever made for open sight shooting,and back then my eyes were plenty good for shooting it at pretty much any range it would carry. I still don't like scopes,but if I ever go back to shooting rifles I won't have any choice but to buy and use one.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Which is the way it should be. They should even be afraid of the unarmed and the non-veterans because WE are supposed to be THEIR bosses,and supposed to have the power to both remove them from office at any time,and to make them serve time in federal prisons. THAT is "American as it should be".
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Actually, I did think of that comparison. It's as legal and private as the elites say it is. And can change at any time, no matter what solemn assurances and laws supposedly protect its confidentiality and exclusive use for its lawful purpose.
Didn't you have to qualify at 500 yards when they were issuing them?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I don't know the current standard, but you should assume they will keep them for at least 50 years. That was the standard in 1998. http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=41418 Who Are You? DNA Registry Knows By Douglas J. Gillert ROCKVILLE, Md., July 13, 1998 – Ten minutes by car from this Washington suburb is a deep-freeze warehouse containing foolproof identifications of more than a million soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. In the freezer reside the DNA "fingerprints" of nearly two-thirds of all active duty and reserve component service members. By the turn of the century, everyone in uniform will have a DNA card on file. [...] "This is a very simple program, solely for the identification of remains." Normally, the registry will retain DNA cards for 50 years, the same length of time military medical records are kept on file. Once you complete your full service obligation, you also can request destruction of your DNA record. The required form and instructions are available from: Armed Forces Repository of Specimen Samples for the Identification of Remains
I was on active duty when the military changed from the old service number to using the SSN as the service number. Then I had to put my new service number on all sorts of things like my paycheck if I wanted to cash it.
A friend of mines Dad got a .303 British for $5 or 10, I used to use it for deer hunting when we were stationed together in the U.P. of Michigan. Damn thing had such a straight stock you had to be "neckless" or prone to shoot it, but it was very accurate. :)
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Used to be you had to put your SS number on any checks you wrote on base, they had a list to compare it to to see if your check writing/cashing privileges were OK. Now they just scan your ID card at the register to accomplish the same thing. They also have started scanning your ID at the gate.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
The range I go to frowns on those that like to rapid shoot, they give you the "evil eye" if you do.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Make sure you buy hot .22's... sometimes they don't function as flawlessly as you'd like.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Just how old do you think I am? IIRC,we had to qualify at 500 meters with the junk M-14's issued to us in basic training in the 60's. It wasn't a real problem with those junkers,and it would have been a walk in the park with a O3 or Garand.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
96
It would also beat you to death with that straight stock and he brass buttplates. I remember when I could have bought a "as new issue" SMLE Mk4 Jungle Carbine from the back cover of Guns magazine for $12.95,including shipping. The problem was I was 10-12 years old,and didn't have $12.95.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The range I go to is right outside in my yard,and nobody says anything.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
96 No,that's just how old I look and feel on the good days.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Don't a lot of them recommend using CCIs? I've used 60 grain subsonics in my Ruger MkIII and haven't had any issues with functioning. But something blowback or with a heavier bolt/slide I could see functioning issues arising.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Yeah, but most of the shooters I know that use 22 conversions in 1911's try and get away with the cheapest .22 you can buy.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
You knew what I meant. :) I would imagine somewhere right around 70, and still full of piss and vinegar.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
With .22 prices nowadays I can see that happening. In fact I haven't seen any CCIs for less than $8 a 50 round box in quite sometime.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I think my neighbors would have a hissy fit if I tried that where I live. I had one complain when I was out shooting the bow, but then again that family is a bunch of "scared of their own shadow" idiots. Wish I lived just a little further out than I do and had at least 10 acres, a 500 yd range would fit quite nicely on that don't you think? :)
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
IIRC,we had to qualify at 500 meters with the junk M-14's issued to us in basic training in the 60's. It wasn't a real problem with those junkers,and it would have been a walk in the park with a O3 or Garand. --- sneakypete I remember a day at the 500 yard range, with 10'sq targets w/a 2'ft bullseye, but I think we qualified on a 100/200 yard range.. As you said, qualifying was pretty easy with the '06 Garand, even though they were pretty beat up WW II rifles. This was in 1955. I bought a SMLE 303 in '58 for $9.95. Good rifle for deer.
You gotta be around 78.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
This was in 1955. You gotta be a mathematical genius...
Just on days that end in Y
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
It kinda makes sense now. I cuss a few times and you think Ive been drinking. lol No wonder. My father didn't cuss as much as I... it's generational. He was built in 36... gotta be close to your DOB. You're pretty sarcastic for a grandpa... im impressed.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
What's age got to do with sarcasm? - Hell, I may be improving, -- what with all the practice I've had at LP & LF..
You're very laughable, and write like you're drunk when you get to ranting about "Kookifornia".
Write like I'm drunk? Now if I wanted to search your car because you're talking like you're high... you'd say I didn't have probable cause. You'd have fit right in on a LE shift.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Well your state did elect Governor Moonbeam.
We also elected Governor Reagan. -- This used to be a fairly conservative state. We will be again...
Yep.
Always.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
If so you were probably still shooting stationary bulls eye targets. We were using pop-up targets when shooting out to 500 yards in the 60's. IIRC,there was even a segment where you went walking on a path and targets would pop up anywhere from 25 to 500 yards,and you had a set time to knock them down,along with a set number of rounds. Given the state of exhaustion basic trainees were under after double-timing out to the range and getting no sleep,it wasn't as easy as it might have been.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
We had some ranges like that at Graffenwor, in Germany, '57. --- Fun...
Yup. I had to get one of those new confangled cards in 2011. They will not accept the old ones anymore. They have discontinued using the SSN as a service number. I was a 7-digit SN, then a 9-digit SSN, and now a 10-digit DoD ID Number.
I will have to check. It may have been the level of security clearance. But I assumed you had to have the same level.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Well yes back when you served with Knox and Hamilton that was probably SOP:) But yes you probably did. Now when you get a CAC card ID you provide one pointer finger electronic print. But not the full ten fingers like I did for my clearance .
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Hmmm, I'm still using the Blue card I was issued in 2009 when my other card that was issued when I retired started to delaminate. It still has my SS# on it. But I do remember seeing people with the new cards before they issued me the blue one. Seems to me my brother in law who is a retired officer had the new card before I got my latest blue one and redleghunter was an officer so I guess my next question would be were you an officer too? Might explain why the difference in cards since I was enlisted.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
No all of our 'blue' retired cards are the same. Only difference is you need to get a new blue card. If you want to get on most installations now you need a blue card with the DoD ID number. TRICARE is now tracking claims with the DoD number. But I think there is a grace period. Have some older Vets I blog with in the DC area. They all had to get the new DoD ID number blue cards (same card different number:)) to get on the various Beltway military bases/posts. I would just call your local ID card section to find out the deal.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Sound to me like, in practice, the Pentagon would have a lot of discretion in allowing their samples to be used for civilian police investigations.
#75. To: CZ82 (#69)
Some manufacturers now make .22 caliber versions of larger caliber weapons like 1911s, Sig Sauers and a few others. Or they make what they call a .22 adapter kit and you use the same frame for both/multiple calibers.
#76. To: CZ82 (#70)
The "Pols" are scared of us "Government trained killers/terrorists"
#77. To: nolu chan (#74)
Think of it being about as private and secure as a social security number for social security purposes only.
#78. To: sneakypete (#75)
IMHO,the 03 versions of the Springfield were the best damn bolt rifles ever made for open sight shooting,and back then my eyes were plenty good for shooting it at pretty much any range it would carry.
#79. To: TooConservative, CZ82 (#58)
You should assume they'll keep them forever.
DoD News
American Forces Press Service
16050 Industrial Drive, Suite 100
Gaithersburg, MD 20877.
#80. To: TooConservative (#77)
and laws supposedly protect its confidentiality
#81. To: sneakypete (#75)
Couldn't get him to buy me a match grade Springfield,either. IIRC,they were less than 15 bucks delivered at the time.
#82. To: nolu chan (#80)
Then I had to put my new service number on all sorts of things like my paycheck if I wanted to cash it.
#83. To: sneakypete (#71)
He said I "shot too fast" during the "3 shot rapid fire" portion of the qualification and that "shooting wild like that endangers bystanders."
#84. To: CZ82 (#69)
Some manufacturers now make .22 caliber versions of larger caliber weapons like 1911s, Sig Sauers and a few others. Or they make what they call a .22 adapter kit and you use the same frame for both/multiple calibers.
#85. To: CZ82 (#78)
Didn't you have to qualify at 500 yards when they were issuing them?
#86. To: sneakypete (#85)
Just how old do you think I am?
#87. To: CZ82 (#81)
Damn thing had such a straight stock you had to be "neckless" or prone to shoot it, but it was very accurate. :)
#88. To: CZ82 (#83)
The range I go to frowns on those that like to rapid shoot, they give you the "evil eye" if you do.
#89. To: A K A Stone (#86)
(Edited)
Just how old do you think I am?
#90. To: GrandIsland (#84)
Make sure you buy hot .22's... sometimes they don't function as flawlessly as you'd like.
#91. To: CZ82 (#90)
Don't a lot of them recommend using CCIs?
#92. To: sneakypete (#85)
#93. To: GrandIsland (#91)
#94. To: sneakypete (#88)
#95. To: sneakypete, CZ82, Y'ALL (#85)
CZ82 (#78) --- Didn't you have to qualify at 500 yards when they were issuing them?
#96. To: tpaine (#95)
This was in 1955.
#97. To: GrandIsland (#96)
You gotta be around 78.
#98. To: tpaine (#97)
You gotta be a mathematical genius...
#99. To: tpaine (#97)
(Edited)
#100. To: GrandIsland (#99)
You're pretty sarcastic for a grandpa... im impressed.
#101. To: GrandIsland (#99)
It kinda makes sense now. I cuss a few times and you think Ive been drinking. lol
#102. To: tpaine (#101)
You're very laughable, and write like you're drunk when you get to ranting about "Kookifornia".
#103. To: tpaine (#101)
You're very laughable, and write like you're drunk when you get to ranting about "Kookifornia".
#104. To: A K A Stone (#103)
Well your state did elect Governor Moonbeam.
#105. To: tpaine (#104)
This used to be a fairly conservative state.
#106. To: CZ82 (#94)
a 500 yd range would fit quite nicely on that don't you think? :)
#107. To: tpaine (#95)
I remember a day at the 500 yard range, with 10'sq targets w/a 2'ft bullseye, but I think we qualified on a 100/200 yard range..
#108. To: sneakypete (#107)
IIRC,there was even a segment where you went walking on a path and targets would pop up anywhere from 25 to 500 yards,and you had a set time to knock them down,along with a set number of rounds.
#109. To: CZ82 (#82)
Used to be you had to put your SS number on any checks you wrote on base, they had a list to compare it to to see if your check writing/cashing privileges were OK. Now they just scan your ID card at the register to accomplish the same thing. They also have started scanning your ID at the gate.
#110. To: CZ82 (#72)
#111. To: sneakypete (#73)
#112. To: nolu chan, redleghunter (#109)
Yup. I had to get one of those new confangled cards in 2011. They will not accept the old ones anymore. They have discontinued using the SSN as a service number. I was a 7-digit SN, then a 9-digit SSN, and now a 10-digit DoD ID Number.
#113. To: CZ82, nolu chan (#112)
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