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Title: Obama Threatened to Shoot Down Israeli Jets Attacking Iran
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ob ... eli-jets/2015/03/01/id/627575/
Published: Mar 1, 2015
Author: g richter
Post Date: 2015-03-01 20:24:06 by out damned spot
Keywords: Obama, Iran, Israel
Views: 21934
Comments: 102

President Barack Obama threatened to shoot down Israeli planes in 2014 if they were sent to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, according to reports attributed to a Kuwaiti newspaper.

According to the website Israel National News, the Bethlehem-based news agency Ma'an cites Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

Al-Jarida reports that the alleged threat from the White House forced Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to cancel the planned attack.

President Barack Obama threatened to shoot down Israeli planes in 2014 if they were sent to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, according to reports attributed to a Kuwaiti newspaper.

According to the website Israel National News, the Bethlehem-based news agency Ma'an cites Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

Al-Jarida reports that the alleged threat from the White House forced Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to cancel the planned attack.

An Israeli minister on good relations with the Obama administration reportedly tipped Secretary of State John Kerry to the plan and that Obama vowed to shoot down the planes when they crossed over U.S.-controlled airspace in Iraq.

Al-Jarida quoted "well-placed" sources saying that Netanyahu, Minister of Defense Moshe Ya'alon and then-Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman made the plans for airstrikes after consulting top commanders.

In addition to the attacks, Netanyahu and his ministers decided to try to thwart any nuclear deal between the United States and Iran over fears that a nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel's existence, the newspaper said.

Israeli pilots reportedly trained for weeks on the mission and even were able to fly into Iranian airspace without being detected by radar.

Israel's fears of nuclear attack are not new. In 2007, an Israeli airstrike took out a suspected nuclear site in Syria. A 1981 airstrike took out a suspected nuclear reactor in Iraq.

Israel National News quoted a Daily Beast interview from 2009 in which former President Jimmy Carter's national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski urged Obama to take on any threat to Iran from Israel.

"They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?" Brzezinski said. "We have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren’t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not."

Brzezinski even suggested, "No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse."

That was an allusion to an incident in the 1967 Six Day War in which Israeli jets and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty in international waters. Israel later called the attack an incident of "friendly fire."

Netanyahu is set to address a joint session of Congress on Tuesday over the Iranian nuclear threat. Most Democrats have said they will not attend and Obama has said he will not meet with the prime minister since the talk will occur two weeks from Israeli elections.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 58.

#1. To: out damned spot (#0)

" a nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel's existence "

That would be a reasonable assumption.

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-01   20:50:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Stoner, out damned spot (#1)

A nuclear Iran would be a check on Sunni Muslims also. And that is also good.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-01   20:51:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Pericles, out damned spot, All (#2)

A nuclear Iran would be a check on Sunni Muslims also. And that is also good.

For how long? How long do you think it would take Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. to acquire nukes of their own (if they already do not have them) once Iran gets one?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   23:00:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: SOSO (#7)

For how long? How long do you think it would take Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. to acquire nukes of their own (if they already do not have them) once Iran gets one?

The Arabs already have nukes, Pakistan is storing them for them.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-01   23:14:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Pericles (#11)

The Arabs already have nukes, Pakistan is storing them for them.

It is not too much of a stretch to think that the nukes have already been distributed given the extreme distrust within the region even among so-called tribal brethren.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   23:19:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: SOSO (#12)

The Arabs already have nukes, Pakistan is storing them for them.

It is not too much of a stretch to think that the nukes have already been distributed given the extreme distrust within the region even among so-called tribal brethren.

So it makes perfect sense for Iran to defend itself with nukes against the Sunni Muslims and the Zionist Israelis and the Americans - just ask Qaddafi what giving up WMD did for him....

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-01   23:58:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Pericles (#13)

So it makes perfect sense for Iran to defend itself with nukes against the Sunni Muslims and the Zionist Israelis and the Americans -

If you say so, Sparky. The last I checked no-one in the Mideast is threatening to wipe Iran off the map a la Iran's stated goal for Israel.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-02   0:14:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: SOSO, Pericles (#14)

If you say so, Sparky. The last I checked no-one in the Mideast is threatening to wipe Iran off the map a la Iran's stated goal for Israel.

The propaganda that Iran or Ahmedinejad threatened "to wipe Iran off the map" has been thoroughly debunked.

http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08282006.html

August 28, 2006

Is Iran's President Really a Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"?

Putting Words in Ahmadinejad's Mouth

By VIRGINIA TILLEY

Johannesburg, South Africa

In this frightening mess in the Middle East, let's get one thing straight. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel. Over and over, we hear that Iran is clearly "committed to annihilating Israel" because the "mad" or "reckless" or "hard-line" President Ahmadinejad has repeatedly threatened to destroy Israel But every supposed quote, every supposed instance of his doing so, is wrong.

The most infamous quote, "Israel must be wiped off the map", is the most glaringly wrong. In his October 2005 speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

What did he mean? In this speech to an annual anti-Zionist conference, Mr. Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then). Mr. Ahmadinejad had just reminded his audience that the Shah's regime, the Soviet Union, and Saddam Hussein had all seemed enormously powerful and immovable, yet the first two had vanished almost beyond recall and the third now languished in prison. So, too, the "occupying regime" in Jerusalem would someday be gone. His message was, in essence, "This too shall pass."

[snip]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jun/14/post155

Lost in translation

Jonathan Steele
The Guardian (UK)
14 June 2006 07.49 EDT

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/

Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel ‘Must Be Wiped Off the Map’

By Robert Mackey
April 17, 2012 7:11 pm
New York Times

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/lost-in-translation/

Lost in Translation

Iran never threatened to wipe Israel off the map

By Steve Rendall
FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)
June 1, 2012

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’?

Posted by Glenn Kessler
Washington Post
at 06:00 AM ET, 10/05/2011

nolu chan  posted on  2015-03-02   20:00:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: nolu chan (#53)

Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel ‘Must Be Wiped Off the Map’

Even at the time, it was thoroughly debunked by Farsi speakers who explained it rather thoroughly. The original remark was that Israel would fade from time. Of course, the subtext for Ahmadinejad's Iranian listeners was likely that Iran would love to do anything to hasten that day when Israel fades from time's tableaux.

But then, about half the public still thinks Saddam attacked us on 9/11. Dumbasses.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-02   21:53:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: TooConservative (#56) (Edited)

Even at the time, it was thoroughly debunked by Farsi speakers who explained it rather thoroughly. The original remark was that Israel would fade from time. Of course, the subtext for Ahmadinejad's Iranian listeners was likely that Iran would love to do anything to hasten that day when Israel fades from time's tableaux.

Yes some idiom is at play here. But then again the Mahdi Hatter gave the speech at "The World Without Zionism" conference. So context is important here:)

Given the context of the speech, the use of "wipe Israel from the map" is a fair use of idiom in interpretation.

And it was not some neocon website which attributed the idiom to Ahmadinejad's speech but:

The Iranian presidential website stated: "the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map," and "the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map." [81]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wi ped_off_the_ map.22_controversy

The rest of the link above describes some fancy footwork used by apologists for Ahmadinejad and his apocalyptic cult.

And I'll note...this misunderstanding business and taking out of context meme reminds me of the papal apologists for Francis.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-03   0:01:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 58.

#60. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#58)

Given the context of the speech, the use of "wipe Israel from the map" is a fair use of idiom in interpretation.

No, it has been deliberately used to create clearly false propaganda. It was used in the same sense as the USSR has disappeared from the map. References to a Zionist regime refer to a government, not a nation.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/08/28/putting-words-in-ahmadinejad-s-mouth/

August 28, 2006

Is Iran's President Really a Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"?

Putting Words in Ahmadinejad's Mouth

By VIRGINIA TILLEY

Johannesburg, South Africa

[excerpt]

The most infamous quote, "Israel must be wiped off the map", is the most glaringly wrong. In his October 2005 speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

What did he mean? In this speech to an annual anti-Zionist conference, Mr. Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then). Mr. Ahmadinejad had just reminded his audience that the Shah’s regime, the Soviet Union, and Saddam Hussein had all seemed enormously powerful and immovable, yet the first two had vanished almost beyond recall and the third now languished in prison. So, too, the "occupying regime" in Jerusalem would someday be gone. His message was, in essence, "This too shall pass."

But what about his other "threats" against Israel? The blathersphere made great hay from his supposed comment later in the same speech, "There is no doubt: the new wave of assaults in Palestine will erase the stigma in [the] countenance of the Islamic world." "Stigma" was interpreted as "Israel" and "wave of assaults" was ominous. But what he actually said was, "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a wave of morality which is spanning the entire Islamic world and which will soon remove this stain of disgrace from the Islamic world." "Wave of morality" is not "wave of assaults." The preceding sentence had made clear that the "stain of disgrace" was the Muslim world’s failure to eliminate the "occupying regime".

For months, scholars like Cole and journalists like the London Guardian’s Jonathan Steele have been pointing out these mistranslations while more and more appear: for example, Mr. Ahmadinejad’s comments at the Organization of Islamic Countries meeting on August 3, 2006. Radio Free Europe reported that he said "that the ‘main cure’ for crisis in the Middle East is the elimination of Israel." "Elimination of Israel" implies physical destruction: bombs, strafing, terror, throwing Jews into the sea. Tony Blair denounced the translated statement as ""quite shocking". But Mr. Ahmadinejad never said this. According to al-Jazeera, what he actually said was "The real cure for the conflict is the elimination of the Zionist regime, but there should be an immediate ceasefire first."

Nefarious agendas are evident in consistently translating "eliminating the occupation regime" as "destruction of Israel". "Regime" refers to governance, not populations or cities. "Zionist regime" is the government of Israel and its system of laws, which have annexed Palestinian land and hold millions of Palestinians under military occupation. Many mainstream human rights activists believe that Israel’s "regime" must indeed be transformed, although they disagree how. Some hope that Israel can be redeemed by a change of philosophy and government (regime) that would allow a two-state solution. Others believe that Jewish statehood itself is inherently unjust, as it embeds racist principles into state governance, and call for its transformation into a secular democracy (change of regime). None of these ideas about regime change signifies the expulsion of Jews into the sea or the ravaging of their towns and cities. All signify profound political change, necessary to creating a just peace.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-03-03 01:01:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#58)

Given the context of the speech, the use of "wipe Israel from the map" is a fair use of idiom in interpretation.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

'Wiped off the Map' – The Rumor of the Century

by Arash Norouzi
May 26, 2007

cross the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.

On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism." Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.

Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote – they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomenei, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.

The Actual Quote:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "regime." pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh" is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's president threatened to "wipe Israel off the map." despite never having uttered the words "map." "wipe out" or even "Israel."

The Proof:

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

[snip]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-03-03 01:19:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: redleghunter (#58) (Edited)

And I'll note...this misunderstanding business and taking out of context meme reminds me of the papal apologists for Francis.

Ahmadinejad did not call for Israel's destruction on that occasion as was alleged.

He did do so publicly on dozens of other occasions.

I did like his sheer smartassery in 2005:

In an interview on Iran's Arabic channel 'Al-Alam', Ahmadinejad said that if Germany and Austria feel responsible for the massacre of Jews during World War II, they should host a state of Israel on their own soil. Speaking at a news conference on the summit sidelines, Ahmadinejad said most Jews in Israel "have no roots in Palestine, but they are holding the destiny of Palestine in their hands and allow themselves to kill the Palestinian people."
“Some European countries insist on saying that during World War II, Hitler burned millions of Jews and put them in concentration camps. Any historian, commentator or scientist who doubts that is taken to prison or gets condemned. Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true... If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe – like in Germany, Austria or other countries – to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe. You offer part of Europe and we will support it."
  • German Chancellor Angela Merkel was said to “condemn Ahmadinejad’s words”, without specifying which words. And she said: “We shall do everything to make clear that Israel’s right to exist is not imperiled in any way”.
  • Austria Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schüssel said: "these remarks are “an outrageous gaffe, which I want to repudiate in the sharpest manner.”
  • United Kingdom British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw: “I condemn [the comments] unreservedly. They have no place in civilised political debate”.
That's some pretty funny stuff.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-03 04:49:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 58.

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