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Title: Pope Francis attacks 'throw-away' economic globalization
Source:
Reuters
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015 ... -economy-idUSKBN0LW0NZ20150228
Published: Feb 28, 2015
Author: James Mackenzie
Post Date: 2015-02-28 13:54:03 by Willie Green
Keywords: globalization
Views: 16162
Comments: 66
(Reuters) - Pope Francis launched a fresh attack on economic injustice on Saturday, condemning the "throw-away culture" of globalization and calling for new ways of thinking about poverty, welfare, employment and society. In a speech to the association of Italian cooperative movements, he pointed to the "dizzying rise in unemployment" and the problems that existing welfare systems had in meeting healthcare needs. For those living "at the existential margins" the current social and political system "seems fatally destined to suffocate hope and increase risks and threats," he said. The Argentinian-born pope, who has often criticized orthodox market economics for fostering unfairness and inequality, said people were forced to work long hours, sometimes in the black economy, for a few hundred euros a month because they were seen as easily replaceable. "'You don't like it? Go home then'. What can you do in a world that works like this? Because there's a queue of people looking for work. If you don't like it, someone else will," he said in an unscripted change from the text of his speech. "It's hunger, hunger that makes us accept what they give us," he said. His remarks have a special resonance in Italy, where unemployment, particularly among young people, is running at record levels after years of economic recession. The cooperative movement in Italy, whose roots go back to 19th century workers' associations, have long had close ties to the Catholic Church, with credit services, agricultural and building co-ops forming an important part of the overall economy. Pope Francis said they could help find new models and methods that could be an alternative model to the "throw-away culture created by the powers that control the economic and financial policies of the globalized world." Perhaps mindful of a wide-ranging corruption scandal linked to some cooperatives in Rome last year, he attacked those who "prostitute the cooperative name". But his overall message was that economic rationale had to be secondary to the wider needs of human society. "When money becomes an idol, it commands the choices of man. And thus it ruins man and condemns him. It makes him a slave," he said. "Money at the service of life can be managed in the right way by cooperatives, on condition that it is a real cooperative where capital does not have command over men but men over capital," he said.
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#1. To: Willie Green, redleghunter, vicomte13, Gary SpFc (#0)
He left out "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Hint: Within today's modern world of inter-connected national economics sanctioned by global goverance considerations, we (all) are victims. Nice try, as always, of introducing silly ideas into any discussion.
He left out "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Hint: Within today's modern world of inter-connected national economics sanctioned by global goverance considerations, we (all) are victims. Hint: What does that have to do with the Pope's comments lauding cooperatives? Or the Church's advocacy of socialistic, if not Communistic, ideals about society?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
The Christian church, irrespective of denomination, has always been "communistic" in nature. What's your beef?
I have begun to think this pope is the one that will finally destroy Roman Catholicism. Obviously a low-grade choice. He won't make one big mistake, IMO. The papacy is more likely to die a death by a thousand cuts.
It was understood. "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is a very shorthand restatement of what St. Luke said in Acts about the economic structure of the Apostolic community.
Nah. He's just stating the old doctrines in a refreshing new way. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church, and Francis is one of the good guys.
The Christian church, irrespective of denomination, has always been "communistic" in nature. What's your beef? The Christian church, irrespective of denomination, has always been "communistic" in nature.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
You are such a nice comrade. über alles!
You are such a nice comrade. über alles! Not as nice of a Comrade as you. Unlike you I don't accept socialism even if it is peddled by the Pope.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
True. The voices from too many pulpits get their sadistic rocks off through preaching a guilt inducing masochistic message of from each according to each according to their need that brings people down on their knees groveling and begging for forgiveness before clergy.
Do you live in America, the land of the free? If so, of course you do; you practice your socialistic skills everyday and demonstrate your faith to Washington DC on or before April 15 each and every year.
I render unto Caesar what is Caesar's princinpally because I do not want to go to jail. If you think that makes me or anybody else a socialist then you definitely need a real good healin.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Though I still call myself a Catholic I have long stopped believing that the clergy and so-called organized religion has anything to do with God.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
You are a nice and obedient comrade. Do you have anything else to offer to the forum?
I do not want to go to jail. If you think that makes me or anybody else a socialist then you definitely need a real good healin. You are a nice and obedient comrade. In this regard, yes, I obey the law. I suppose that you are going to claim that you do not, Rambo?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
How has any "law" changed or altered your personal endeavors besides taxation considerations?
Herer's what else I offer this forum, Rambo - a chance for you to explain to this forum why you do not pay any federal, state and local taxes, do not pay any sales taxes, do not have a driver's license, or a marriage license, never register to vote, do not have a passport or any government ID, never attended public school, never allowed any of you children to attend public school, dodged the draft, refused to fill out a census form, etc., etc. etc. I am sure we can all benefit from your exemplary life as a rebel with a cause.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
How has any "law" changed or altered your personal endeavors besides taxation considerations? First tell me what laws you do not obey.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I think Francis will be the end of Rome. It's already over in Europe. The U.S. is catching up. And that will leave Rome with South America, parts of Africa and some outposts in Asia.
As many as I can get away with. I do not read "laws" to understand my scope of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. I understand the impact of "laws" but for the most part, it is all about taxation.
Grow a pair and be specific. But if you are too chicken sh*t to do so, fine. You just admitted that you do obey some laws. Well, Comrade, STFU.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Laws are nothing more than taxation attempts to establish a means of control over People. You don't seem to understand how government works in the real world, irrespecive of any nation or heritage, do you?
He quoted his namesake, St Francis of Assisi, in calling money the “devil’s dung,” according to Vatican Radio. “When money becomes an idol, it controls man’s choices,” he added. “It makes him a slave.” This is far from the first time the Pope has addressed the condition of the working class in the globalized world; in a speech at the U.N. last year, the Pope asked world leaders to redistribute wealth. But won't redistribution of wealth via the UN actually be a way to drown the poor in this vile devil's dung that Francis has so much of personally? The Vatican is a hoard of looting. Maybe Francis should redistribute his own hoard before he lectures others.
Laws are nothing more than taxation attempts to establish a means of control over People. You don't seem to understand how government works in the real world, irrespecive of any nation or heritage, do you? Are you really as idiotic as your post make you out to be? Are you really advocating that a society of civilized people do not need laws? Really?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Touche. But perhaps the Vatican needs a bit of a war chest just in case all of the molestaion cases haven't be yet settled?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Laws are about taxation. Morals and principles and even scrupples can not be measured but by deeds in the real world.
If you say so, Rambo. Good night.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Ojo biónico; hasta la vista!
Globalization has done great harm.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Christianity, being a Jewish sect in its early years, naturally inherits the obligation to help the poor, always considered a religious obligation of any Jew. I don't see anything in scripture that tells us to eliminate poverty by redistribution. This is where Rome converts from authentic Jewish and Christian traditions on charity to embrace Marxist dogma. What part of the scriptures that tell Christians not to store up treasures on earth but in heaven does not ring true to this pope? The examples of scripture are of Christians who sell their own belongings to give to the poor, not hoard a bunch of religious artifacts and art to create shrines to which the rubes will go on pilgrimage. Places like the Vatican. The pope should follow the biblical example, not lecture on economic justice and pander to Marxists. Let the pope sell off his art collection and treasures. Then he can lecture us.
Yeah but I don't find that in scripture either. Nor among the writings of the ancient church fathers. They did speak of and admire voluntary holy poverty quite often. There is no personal spiritual merit involved if people give to the poor at gunpoint. At least, not judging by the scripture and writings of the early churches.
Does the Old Testament have any authority?
An obvious leading question. I maintain, as always (and which you already know), that the New Testament is a complete and sufficient scripture to meet all the needs of Christians. In some instances, you must know some details of the Old Testament to understand the NT quotes and references made to Old Testament writings, just as you also need to know the history and culture of the first century Romans, their philosophers, their pagan cults to understand some passages of NT writings. But go ahead and post the essay that you are no doubt composing at this very moment. I will point out that, if the Old Testament's covenant is still in effect in any way, there can be no New Covenant in Christ. Either that temple veil was permanently sundered from top to bottom or it was not so don't waste your keystrokes on Jesuitical arguments that amount to dishonestly trying to have it both ways. Argue your points accordingly.
I don't see anything in scripture that tells us to eliminate poverty by redistribution. This is where Rome converts from authentic Jewish and Christian traditions on charity to embrace Marxist dogma. What part of the scriptures that tell Christians not to store up treasures on earth but in heaven does not ring true to this pope? The examples of scripture are of Christians who sell their own belongings to give to the poor, not hoard a bunch of religious artifacts and art to create shrines to which the rubes will go on pilgrimage. Places like the Vatican. The pope should follow the biblical example, not lecture on economic justice and pander to Marxists. Let the pope sell off his art collection and treasures. Then he can lecture us. Agree 100% with your assessment. And Hollywood has addressed such a notion. I am reminded of this movie: The Shoes of the Fisherman
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
2 Corinthians 9:6-7 English Standard Version (ESV) 6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
A NECESSARY question to determine what your prejudices are so that I can speak directly to you, rather than write a lot about things you don't think about.
I will try to make things as simple as I can for you. You do not have a NT without the OT. There would be no need for a NT without the OT. For one thing Man would still be living in the Garden of Eden in total communion with GOd. The sacrifice of Cross would not have been needed. You cannot dismiss the OT as you simply do without bastardizing the NT.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Jesus on every page of Scriptures. The TaNaKh and NT.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Perhaps that's becuase God knew the story from beginning to end before He wrote it.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Comments (42 - 66) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"Money at the service of life can be managed in the right way by cooperatives, on condition that it is a real cooperative where capital does not have command over men but men over capital," he said.
#2. To: SOSO (#1)
He left out "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
#3. To: Pridie.Nones (#2)
#4. To: SOSO (#3)
#5. To: Willie Green (#0)
#6. To: SOSO (#1)
He left out "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
#7. To: TooConservative (#5)
I have begun to think this pope is the one that will finally destroy Roman Catholicism.
#8. To: Pridie.Nones (#4)
#9. To: SOSO (#8)
#10. To: Pridie.Nones (#9)
#11. To: SOSO (#8)
(Edited)
The Christian church, irrespective of denomination, has always been "communistic" in nature.
#12. To: SOSO (#10)
Unlike you I don't accept socialism even if it is peddled by the Pope.
#13. To: Pridie.Nones (#12)
you practice your socialistic skills everyday and demonstrate your faith to Washington DC on or before April 15 each and every year.
#14. To: rlk (#11)
The voices from too many pulpits get their sadistic rocks off through preaching a guilt inducing masochistic message of from each according to each according to their need that brings people down on their knees groveling and begging for forgiveness before clergy.
#15. To: SOSO (#13)
I do not want to go to jail. If you think that makes me or anybody else a socialist then you definitely need a real good healin.
#16. To: Pridie.Nones (#15)
#17. To: SOSO (#16)
#18. To: Pridie.Nones (#15)
You are a nice and obedient comrade.
#19. To: Pridie.Nones (#17)
#20. To: Vicomte13 (#7)
Nah. He's just stating the old doctrines in a refreshing new way.
#21. To: SOSO (#19)
.... tell me what laws you do not obey.
#22. To: Pridie.Nones (#21)
As many as I can get away with.
#23. To: SOSO (#22)
#24. To: Vicomte13 (#7)
#25. To: Pridie.Nones (#23)
#26. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#24)
The Vatican is a hoard of looting. Maybe Francis should redistribute his own hoard before he lectures others.
#27. To: SOSO (#25)
#28. To: Pridie.Nones (#27)
Laws are about taxation.
#29. To: SOSO (#28)
#30. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#20)
#31. To: TooConservative (#24)
The Vatican is a hoard of looting. Maybe Francis should redistribute his own hoard before he lectures others.
#32. To: Pericles, redleghunter (#30)
(Edited)
Globalization has done great harm.
#33. To: SOSO, Pericles, redleghunter (#26)
Touche. But perhaps the Vatican needs a bit of a war chest just in case all of the molestaion cases haven't be yet settled?
#34. To: TooConservative (#33)
#35. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter, SOSO, GarySpFc (#34)
Does the Old Testament have any authority?
#36. To: TooConservative (#32)
Christianity, being a Jewish sect in its early years, naturally inherits the obligation to help the poor, always considered a religious obligation of any Jew.
#37. To: TooConservative (#33)
#38. To: TooConservative (#35)
An obvious leading question.
#39. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter, GarySpFc (#35)
#40. To: SOSO (#39)
#41. To: redleghunter (#40)
Jesus on every page of Scriptures. The TaNaKh and NT.
.
.
.
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