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United States News
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Title: Black Privilege: Students Get SAT Bonus Points for Being Black or Hispanic – Asians Are Penalized
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201 ... hispanic-asians-are-penalized/
Published: Feb 28, 2015
Author: Jim Hoft
Post Date: 2015-02-28 04:55:57 by out damned spot
Keywords: students, black privilege, SAT
Views: 13063
Comments: 80

A report in the LA Times revealed that blacks and Hispanics get bonus SAT points at elite universities based on their race. Asian students however are penalized 50 points due to their race.

The LA Times reported, via DownTrend:

Lee’s next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant’s race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

“Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says.

“Zenme keyi,” one mother hisses in Chinese. How can this be possible?

Downtrend also noted that college athletes also receive bonus points during the application process.

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#23. To: A Pole (#22)

120?

High enough to have never needed liberal help achieving anything in life.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-28   12:19:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: GrandIsland (#14)

I'm not a sheep

Really? So who you are under your sheepskin?

A Pole  posted on  2015-02-28   12:19:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: GrandIsland (#23)

High enough to have never needed liberal help achieving anything in life.

You mean you live off taxpayers tit?

A Pole  posted on  2015-02-28   12:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A Pole (#25) (Edited)

You mean you live off taxpayers tit?

Negative. The NYS retirement system is completely separate animal than a tax funded budget.

It's payouts are funded by employee contatbutions and investments. Not socialist at all.

Now, KOOKIFORNIA, is different. They took employee contributions and stole from it by balancing budgets... and now it's a tax drain because that shithole state taxes and spends just like you spew ignorance.... endless

You should research the NYS retirement fund... so you don't sound so uninformed. The fund is so huge, so rich... that Cuck Fuomo has threatened to steal from it. He'll never be allowed.

Other than that, I'm retired.

I like your spin tho. You know our founding fathers intended on some form of government and TAXES to fund it... and when a conservative, like me complains about the SIZE of it, a liberal like you wants to spin the intended amount to be just as bad as the overgrown and out of control amount of government.

Do you suggest that there be no Sheriff's? lol

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-28   12:39:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: misterwhite (#7)

Do you want to hear a squawk heard around the world?

The way to fix this is to hoist the commies/libs/progs on their own petard. Make it so all students must be accepted regardless of SAT, to any college or university that takes tax breaks, or direct monies from any form of government. Destroy the Ivy league type schools make all admissions equal.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-02-28   12:43:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: out damned spot (#0)

A report in the LA Times revealed that blacks and Hispanics get bonus SAT points at elite universities based on their race. Asian students however are penalized 50 points due to their race.

In more breaking news,editors have determined that the sun usually rises in the east!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: out damned spot, *Hypocrisy and Hypocrites* (#0)

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

Anybody else notice how it always seems like the people that work the hardest end up being the luckiest and most successful?

I think it must be some sort of conspiracy!

No juz-tize,no peas!

No juz-tize,no peas!

No juz-tize,no peas!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:50:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: patriot wes (#4)

And these people used to scream for "EQUALITY!".....

Yeah,but only because they don't understand what the word means.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:51:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: jeremiad (#27)

Destroy the Ivy league type schools make all admissions equal.

The Ivy League are private colleges, not state universities.

You would likely make the Ivy schools even more powerful than they are now.

Turning the universities into community colleges is probably not the answer you want.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   12:53:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A Pole (#12)

IQ measures ability to solve IQ puzzles. Nothing more, nothing less.

It was designed to pick qualified office drones.

You just keep telling yourself that,Bubba.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: jeremiad (#27)

"Make it so all students must be accepted regardless of SAT"

Sure. That's easy. But if you're a college and 90% of your freshmen flunk out, where are your sophomores going to come from?

Colleges make their money from students who will go there all four years. So want only those students who are smart enough to survive all four years.

A SAT (ACT) score is the best predictor.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-02-28   13:01:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: TooConservative (#1)

.........this was a study to try to quantify how much higher they need to score to be offered admission.

How do you know? The article didn't state this.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   13:42:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: SOSO (#34)

Either you didn't read or didn't understand what the article said.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   13:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: TooConservative (#35)

What about the following don't you undrestand.

"A report in the LA Times revealed that blacks and Hispanics get bonus SAT points at elite universities based on their race. Asian students however are penalized 50 points due to their race.

Lee’s next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant’s race is worth. She points to the first column."

It is perfectly clear that the bonus points are de facto awarded and the Princeton study was to determine the magnitude of SAT bonus points per race. In other words it determined the equivalent SAT score a Black, Hispanic and Asian used in the admission decision had race of the applicant not been identified.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   13:55:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Fred Mertz (#17)

Sure you did, Einstein, sure you did.

A lot more believable than White as a Mensa member. And NY's civil service exam is not a Mensa test, judging by various comments I've read about it over the years.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   14:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: SOSO (#36)

Like I said, you don't understand the article. It was poorly written IMO.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   14:02:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: out damned spot (#0)

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

Asian students however are penalized 50 points due to their race.

The new appoach to creating equality. Chop off the heads of anyone showing innate capacity and determination while granting imbeciles Ph. D.s to prance with.

rlk  posted on  2015-02-28   14:13:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: TooConservative (#38)

Like I said, you don't understand the article.

Au contrare. It is perfectly clear that being black is wirth the stated bonus points on the SAT in the adnmission decision. For example a black with a SAT of 1500 would be on a par with a white with a SAT of 1750 and an ASain of 1800.

I do agree that the article could have been worded better. But what do you expect, it probably was written for a blacks or hispanics.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   14:14:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: SOSO (#40)

The key difference is that the schools do not actually adjust the SAT scores. The study tries to estimate roughly how much higher they would have to score on SAT for admission.

These schools are too smart to be so blatant as just adjusting SAT scores directly. Too many litigious parents out there.

BTW, legacy students (children of alumni) get a "bonus" of 160 points if you read the LAT article. So a lot of Asians and even a few Hispanics are losing out to alumni families.

Not that any of this discrimination seems to tip Asians into voting Republican, the one way they might actually force this issue with the Dims.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   14:20:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TooConservative (#41)

The key difference is that the schools do not actually adjust the SAT scores. The study tries to estimate roughly how much higher they would have to score on SAT for admission.

Thank you, that is exactly what I described. LLAD.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   14:21:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Murron (#21)

misguided

Good point.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-28   16:09:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: TooConservative (#11)

You should take a look at Harvard athletics - at Harvard they understand the utility of athletes as well, and athletes do not have to meet exactly the same academic standard for admission as others.

Of course Harvard is the best endowed school in the universe, and doesn't even need to charge tuition. Nevertheless, they have the same sports programs that other universities have.

MIT? Sure.

Apply what I wrote to every other school in America EXCEPT MIT and Cal Poly. People don't go to MIT to become athletes. They don't go there to become lawyers or financiers either.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-28   19:24:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: TooConservative, jeremiad, vicomte13, All (#31)

Turning the universities into community colleges is probably not the answer you want.

Says who?

"In recent decades, the notion of basing admissions on “colorblind” meritocratic standards such as standardized academic test scores has hardly been an uncontroversial position, with advocates for a fully “diversified” student body being far more prominent within the academic community. Indeed, one of the main attacks against California’s 1996 Proposition 209 was that its requirement of race-neutrality in admissions would destroy the ethnic diversity of California’s higher education system, and the measure was vigorously opposed by the vast majority of vocal university academics, both within that state and throughout the nation. Most leading progressives have long argued that the students selected by our elite institutions should at least roughly approximate the distribution of America’s national population, requiring that special consideration be given to underrepresented or underprivileged groups of all types."

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   19:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: sneakypete (#29)

Anybody else notice how it always seems like the people that work the hardest end up being the luckiest and most successful?

I have never observed that to be true.

The people I know who work the hardest are the Hispanic folks who cut the lawns and clean the buildings at night where I work. They have two or three jobs and work like slaves. I do not see them getting much reward.

By contrast, I see people who think they work very hard, but who do not - not relative to the way those service people do - earning in excess of a million a year each.

So no, I've never noticed the phenomenon you've described. I've noticed something altogether different.

Same was true in the Navy. I observed that the people who worked the hardest were the ones that had the shittiest and most menial jobs, and they were paid the least. The officers were paid the most and did not work nearly as hard as many of the enlisted.

It has been my general observation that the people who have the most have overwhelmingly been the sons and daughters, or grandchildren, of people who already had quite a lot. They got good educations, and therefore scored well on standardized tests, went to the right schools, and got high paying jobs. At those jobs, they work like other people in offices do. They don't work as hard as service people. But they get paid a lot more.

So, what I notice is that people who are the highest and the most successful and luckiest tend to have had their luck start with birth, as economic status at birth seems to be, in my experience, the greatest single indicator of economic status throughout life.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-28   23:09:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: TooConservative (#31)

Turning the universities into community colleges is probably not the answer you want.

Most universities today are good places to get a prestigeous high school education.

rlk  posted on  2015-02-28   23:34:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Vicomte13 (#46)

... I notice is that people who are the highest and the most successful and luckiest tend to have had their luck start with birth, as economic status at birth seems to be, in my experience, the greatest single indicator of economic status throughout life.

And your observation shall never change. Good commentary on your post.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-28   23:42:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Pridie.Nones, Vicomte13 (#48)

... I notice is that people who are the highest and the most successful and luckiest tend to have had their luck start with birth, as economic status at birth seems to be, in my experience, the greatest single indicator of economic status throughout life.

If that were true there would never have been a burgeoning middle class in America. It may be true for the rest of the world and that is one reason why the Great Experiment has been great, i.e. the American Dream was real........up until a couple of decades or so ago. Since the embracing of multi-culturalism, the abandonment of the notion os assimilation and the broad selling of the BS idea that economic rewards is a zero sum game there has been a continuing decline in the economic well-being of the U.S. middle class.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   23:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: SOSO (#49)

.....up until a couple of decades or so ago.

You have a large error in your way of thinking. The issue that the USA has yet to face is the HUGE responsility it manifested based on the success of WW2. Since 1945, America has dived into deep depression despite all the happy faces out there.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-03-01   0:01:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Vicomte13, sneakypete, All (#46)

The people I know who work the hardest are the Hispanic folks who cut the lawns and clean the buildings at night where I work. They have two or three jobs and work like slaves. I do not see them getting much reward.

I guess that you don't know many Asian immigrant families or Jewish, Italian, Irish, even Russian and East Europen immigrant families.

The reason why the Hispanics that you know haven't improved their families lot in life is because they don't value education or demand that their kids get a solid education, in English, i.e. - work hard in school to achieve a solid education upon which they can build a better economic life for themself. It is the same reason why some of the previous immigration groups which on the whole improved their economic lot have not elevated themself on the economic ladder.

By and large sneakypete is absolutely correct, at least up until a few decades ago. Certainly for my generation the realization of the American Dream was very much a reality irrespective from whence one started out in life.

My wife and are living proof of that, as is my daughter, my brother, my brother-in-law - as is many (if not most) of the kids with which my and I grew up.

My father never graduated high schoool, my mother eked out her HS diploma. I was the first in my entire extended family to graduate from college. I parlayed that into two Masters degrees from major universities. Both my father- in-law and mother-in-law were immigrants. My wife was one of the first in her extended family to graduate from college. She parlayed that into a Masters degree. We both worked hard and elevated ourself several steps up the economic ladder from where we were born. And we passed that on to the the next generation of our family. My daughter is a surgeon, the first doctor in either of side of out family. She's moved on up from where she was born as well.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that this will be true for my grandkids no matter how hard they work because what was ture - namely, the people that work the hardest end up being the luckiest and most successful - is significantly less true today.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   0:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Vicomte13 (#46)

I have never observed that to be true.

Then you don't understand what you see.

The people I know who work the hardest are the Hispanic folks who cut the lawns and clean the buildings at night where I work. They have two or three jobs and work like slaves. I do not see them getting much reward.

Give me a freaking break! Are you really so confused that you think manual laborers are the only people that work hard?

More of your Catholic communist class consciousness at work?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   5:32:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: sneakypete (#52)

Then you don't understand what you see.

Could be.

Or it could be that I see things clearly, as they really are and always have been, and you believe in an illusion that never existed.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   6:23:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: sneakypete (#52)

Give me a freaking break! Are you really so confused that you think manual laborers are the only people that work hard?

Manual laborers work much harder than office workers, yes. That is objectively true.

Office workers come in, sit down, read and write, then they go home. They are paid well for this. Their bodies don't hurt at the end of the day unless they abuse them.

Manual laborers are physically tired at the end of the day, often exhausted. They put in many more hours too, in order to earn the basics of living.

So yes, manual laborers do work harder, a lot harder, than office workers. They work longer, and their jobs take more out of them, and they are paid less. That is objective physical reality that has nothing to do with Catholicism.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   6:25:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Vicomte13 (#53)

Or it could be that I see things clearly, as they really are and always have been, and you believe in an illusion that never existed.

ROFLMAO!

THIS,from a guy that believes in magical spooks?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   6:29:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Vicomte13 (#54)

Manual laborers work much harder than office workers, yes.

You must have lived a sheltered life if you believe that manual laborers are the only ones that work hard.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   6:32:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: sneakypete (#56)

You must have lived a sheltered life if you believe that manual laborers are the only ones that work hard

You must be willfully blind if you think that manual labor, in multiple jobs at minimum wage, or picking beans, is not harder work than any office work anywhere.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   8:14:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: sneakypete (#55)

ROFLMAO!

THIS,from a guy that believes in magical spooks?

I know they exist because I have seen them and spoken with them.

You believe they do not exist because you haven't.

You will, someday. And then you will realize that your worldview was blind to reality. Until that day, I will have to patiently bear your blind certitudes. You sound like my teenage daughter: so CERTAIN about things of which you are ignorant. She'll learn. You too. Probably the hard way. Such is the human condition.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   8:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Vicomte13 (#57)

You must be willfully blind if you think that manual labor, in multiple jobs at minimum wage, or picking beans, is not harder work than any office work anywhere.

I grew up doing manual labor. One of my first jobs was digging septic tank and drain field ditches with a shovel for 50 cents a hour during summer break from school. I was working as a deck hand on a shrimp boat when I was 13.

I lived in two different houses that didn't even have inside toilets by the time I was 12,and we still didn't have hot running water to take baths until I was 17.

I enlisted in the US Army for Airborne Infantry on my 17th birthday.

I have also had white collar office jobs as well as factory jobs and skilled jobs like gunsmith,auto and motorcycle mechanic,body and fender repairman,gunsmith, and machinist.

I even briefly worked as a cryptographer in an air-conditioned office when I first got to VN because I was on physical profile and unable to wear web gear. I hated it so bad I went back to the infantry the same day my profile ended.

Don't try to preach to me about how hard manual labor is,or how poor people are "stuck with being poor for life". Some are due to lack of imagination,some are due to laziness,and some are because they just lack the mental ability to learn anything useful. Many,many others have evolved from their birth station to become middle-class,upper middle-class,and even very wealthy.

Nor do I want to hear any nonsense about the alleged "nobility of de 'po". Save that crap for your cult meetings. I have been around the poor most of my life,and have more than a passing knowledge of the wealthy,and neither is more moral than the other.

Do you have any actual life experience living outside of a cult at all? Do you seriously believe white collar people not connected to some religion don't work hard to become successful?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   11:11:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Vicomte13 (#58)

THIS,from a guy that believes in magical spooks?

I know they exist because I have seen them and spoken with them.

There you have it.

Even more telling is you think they spoke to you,also.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   11:12:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: sneakypete (#60)

THIS,from a guy that believes in magical spooks? I know they exist because I have seen them and spoken with them.

There you have it.

Even more telling is you think they spoke to you,also.

Indeed. I conversed with them, several times.

So, there you have it. Either I'm telling the truth or lying.

I'm telling the truth, so either angels and demons exist or I am bat-shit crazy.

I'm not crazy. They exist.

As you shall find out yourself in person, at the end of your life if not sooner.

You won't be surprised when you do meet them - you already know inside that they exist, you simply deny it.

When you do meet them, you won't be thinking of me to remember that you owe me an apology for calling me a lunatic. So I'll just forgive you now and forget it and we can move on.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   12:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: sneakypete (#59)

Don't preach to me about how hard manual labor is.

Nor do I want to hear any nonsense about the alleged "nobility of de 'po".

Do you have any actual life experience living outside of a cult at all?

I don't need to: you already know how hard it is.

I have never made any reference to the "nobility of the poor". You did. Nobility is a birthright. The poor aren't nobility. If they were, they wouldn't be poor.

Yes. I am in my sixth decade of life experience living outside of a cult. I've never been in a cult, and am not planning on joining one.

I have 49 years of lucid memory of life experiences piled on life experiences. During all of that time, I have lived and experienced things just as you have. You did one thing with that time. I did different things with it. But during the time that you and I have shared the world together, we both have the identical amount of life experience. I probably remember mine better, in finer detail, than you remember yours, because I have a gift.

I'm sure that what you meant to be getting at was that you worked so you know all about working. During that time I, too, was living and working and experiencing things.

You and I have many parallel experiences. You grew up poor. I did not grow up economically poor, but in a very unfortunate circumstances otherwise. You were drafted and served in Vietnam. I too went into the military, for many years, and served aboard ship in the Middle East, and in the air over Iraq, Kuwait, Somalia and other places. At some point the time in the military ended for both of us, and you and I both went and joined the working world and have lived from our paychecks ever since. You and I have done different things since 1965 (when my memory tape begins), but your experiences don't count double or triple relative to mine.

You've simply come to a different view regarding the nature of things than I have.

On another thread, you opined to TooConservative that I'm a "Northeastern Catholic, brainwashed from birth". That is why you think I have the views I do.

I am in fact a Midwesterner by birth and breeding, went to school in the South, served on the West coast, worked in Paris, and have been in the Northeast permanently only since 1999. I didn't start attending Church or caring about religion until I saw and spoke with the angels and the demons. That began in July, 2001. So no, I'm not a Northeastern Catholic who has been brainwashed from birth. I'm a Midwestern pagan whose face was grabbed by God and who, therefore, knows that God is, and who has reoriented his view of the entire world based on that reality.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-01   12:42:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Vicomte13 (#61)

THIS,from a guy that believes in magical spooks? I know they exist because I have seen them and spoken with them.

There you have it.

Even more telling is you think they spoke to you,also.

-------------------------------------

Indeed. I conversed with them, several times.

So, there you have it. Either I'm telling the truth or lying.

I'm telling the truth, so either angels and demons exist or I am bat-shit crazy.

===========================

You ARE bat-shit crazy.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-01   13:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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