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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh
Source: First Things
URL Source: https://www.firstthings.com/article ... ne-flesh-reclaiming-marriage-2
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together
Post Date: 2015-02-26 22:04:36 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 44441
Comments: 194

In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8).

For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined.

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate ­marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state.

As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled.

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Poster Comment:

God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28) Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 175.

#20. To: redleghunter, All (#0)

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart.

But as Americans we must also recognize that we live under a secular government by choice and design. And as with every society since the beginning of mankind what may be legal may not always be moral and what may be moral may not always be legal. Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   20:57:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: SOSO (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

VxH  posted on  2015-02-27   21:45:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: VxH (#21)

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

What is the biological, natural facts about love?

I do not support the gay lifestyle, especially in those cases in which it is persued by choice. That said I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so.

I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society. Gays exist in nature, they are of nature. If you are a Christian you must believe that they are of God as well. We are not fanatical Islamists that believe that they must be killed. We must find a way to coexist in an fully integrated society that among other things believes that all men are created equal, that all men are equal under the law, and, in freedom of religion, all religion (even none).

Leave it to God to sought us out.

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   22:35:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: SOSO (#27)

What is the biological, natural facts about love?

Multigenerational reproductive success is what determines socibiological fitness.

What's love got to do with that?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-04   1:32:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: VxH (#63)

Multigenerational reproductive success is what determines socibiological fitness.

What's love got to do with that?

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   10:51:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: SOSO (#65)

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

That would depend upon their behavior, and whether they worship themselves more than they obey the laws of Nature.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-05   0:13:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: VxH (#75)

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

That would depend upon their behavior, and whether they worship themselves more than they obey the laws of Nature.

Then please define what you mean by socibiologically fit.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-05   10:54:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: SOSO (#78)

Then please define what you mean by socibiologically fit.

Multiple generations of viable offspring.

Infertile individuals can still increase the fitness of their culture.

Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-06   11:17:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: VxH (#88)

Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-06   22:31:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: SOSO (#92)

>>Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)

How many generations of natural, reproductively viable, offspring have the homosexuals infesting the U.S. Figure Skating Association managed to produce?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   13:15:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: VxH, SOSO, redleghunter (#131)

How many generations of natural, reproductively viable, offspring have the homosexuals infesting the U.S. Figure Skating Association managed to produce?

You guys keep this up and you're going to receive a strongly worded email from the U.S. Figure Skating Assocation.     : )

My advice: blame Red for starting it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-07   13:46:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: TooConservative, VxH, redleghunter (#134)

You guys keep this up and you're going to receive a strongly worded email from the U.S. Figure Skating Assocation. : )

My advice: blame Red for starting it.

My advice: buy a pair of ice skates.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   13:48:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: SOSO (#135)

You're off to a surly Saturday.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-07   13:52:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: TooConservative (#136)

You're off to a surly Saturday.

Yeah, I can get that way when people are willfully blind to the conflicts of logic and lack of intellectual honesty of their positions. You know the drill. If one advocates a position based on logic and law the ad hominem accusations flow like water from those that do not want to accept the validity of your argument.

I keep asking the question, under the U.S. Consitution what is the State's legal basis for denying gays the rights and privileges of a state sanctioned civil union that it affords straights? I have yet to get a rational answer other than потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   14:49:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: SOSO (#144)

"because God wants it that way"?

The normal explanation is that the state has an interest in promoting the stabilility and security of children in two-parent families.

Given the high divorce rates and rise of solo motherhood, it has become more irrelevant and this did open the door to arguments for marriage equality.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-07   15:07:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: TooConservative (#145)

The normal explanation is that the state has an interest in promoting the stabilility and security of children in two-parent families.

Given the high divorce rates and rise of solo motherhood, it has become more irrelevant and this did open the door to arguments for marriage equality.

Not for most of those that take exception to my position on the issue.

BTW, if, as the argument goes, two parents are good wouldn't 3, 4 or 5 in a committed, loving polygamist relationship be better. So even that old tired argument was more than logically suspect. Besides what state has ever used that argument in court as its compelling interest to ban gay unions?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   17:06:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: SOSO (#146) (Edited)

BTW, if, as the argument goes, two parents are good wouldn't 3, 4 or 5 in a committed, loving polygamist relationship be better.

Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of primate reproductive biology.

In the natural world, paternity and blood relationship have more impact upon preventing infanticide than the abstract social concoction you're attempting to pull out of your polygyarse.

Tell us - what are the evolved mechanisms for altruism in your polygamous Utopia?

What keeps you from eating the baby when the SHTF?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   17:27:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: VxH (#153)

Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of primate reproductive biology.

In the natural world, paternity and blood relationship have more impact upon preventing infanticide than the abstract social concoction you're attempting to pull out of your polygyarse.

Yo, Sparky, didn't you get the memo that it takes a village?

"In the natural world, paternity and blood relationship have more impact upon preventing infanticide than the abstract social concoction you're attempting to pull out of your polygyarse."

Your ignorance is just too vast to over come. Ever heard of China where infanticide in the for of forced abortion was the law of the land? Next review Nazi Germany's history on the subject. There was/is no force that prevented the former and only massive military force that stopped the latter. Paternity simply did not matter and was of no weight at all in preventing these mass infanticides.

And how to you explain all of the abortions performed in Russia and the U.S> over the past few decades. These were Mom and Pop decisions to commit infanticide. Of course, if you do not believe that a fetus is a human being then no harm not foul there.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   17:41:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: SOSO (#157)

Ever heard of China where infanticide in the for of forced abortion was the law of the land?

Cannibalism was the "law" of the land there too.

"Interview: China's Great Famine Years 'Were an Era of Cannibalism'"
www.rfa.org/english/news/...alism- 11222013104349.html

Now answer the question, Comrade Polygamist: What's the evolved mechanism in your "village" for determining altruism, and who eats whose children?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   17:48:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: VxH (#162)

What's the evolved mechanism in your "village" for determining altruism, and who eats whose children?

Let's get one thing very clear, Sparky. I haven't advocated any of the things that you are trying to pin on me. I merely present the arguments of the illogic and inconsistency of opinions expressed on the subject. So stop being an annoying prick so that we can have a rational discussion on the issue. All you can seem to do is deflect points that sink your argument by creating strawmen diversions or by putting words in my mouth that were never there.

China does did what China does/did. I made no statements whatsoever indicating that I approve of or condone those actions. The PTB in China will eventually have to answer to God for what they did. Just as those in the U.S. that condone, support and legalized abortion on demand will do.

I continue to choose to live in the U.S.. Until I choose otherwise I will live by the rules of law until I can no longer in good conscience do so. I abhor the fact the 50+ million children that have been aborted in the U.S. in the past few decades. I abhor the fact that 50% of children born in the U.S. are born out of wedlock. I am disheartened over the fact that less than 50% of "straight" marriages end in divorce. I am more than dubious about the direction of reproductive science and medicine appears to be taking us.

So tell me again how gay marriage is going to ruin the family in the U.S. some time in the future. Straights seem not to have needed much help in already doing that by themself.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   18:04:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: SOSO (#164) (Edited)

Answer the Question: What's the evolved mechanism in your "village" for determining altruism, and which polygamist eats whose children?

When TSHTF, paternity/maternity and blood matters.

That's an evolutionary, socio-biological, FACT.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   18:26:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: VxH (#172)

ping #168

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   18:29:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: SOSO (#173) (Edited)

Stick your ping in your arse.

What's the evolved mechanism in your "village" for determining altruism, and which polygamist eats whose children?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   18:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: VxH (#174)

ping #168

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   18:34:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 175.

#176. To: SOSO (#175) (Edited)

"Altruistic behavior, behavior that increases the reproductive fitness of others at the apparent expense of the altruist,[8] in some animals has been correlated to the degree of genome shared between altruistic individuals.

A quantitative description of infanticide by male harem-mating animals when the alpha male is displaced as well as rodent female infanticide and fetal resorption are active areas of study. In general, females with more bearing opportunities may value offspring less, and may also arrange bearing opportunities to maximize the food and protection from mates." 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio biology

There is no god but the Tzar, eh comrade? (And no code of morality except that imposed by the tyrany of the majority)

Bon appetit.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07 18:40:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 175.

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