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Bang / Guns
See other Bang / Guns Articles

Title: Open carry vs. announced carry
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 20, 2015
Author: Eugene Volokh
Post Date: 2015-02-20 19:58:36 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 12256
Comments: 43

Open carry vs. announced carry

As I noted yesterday, the Florida Court of Appeal held that there’s a general Second Amendment right to carry guns in public, but the state can choose whether to allow only concealed carry, allow only open carry, or allow both. I noted that this is probably a sound interpretation of the Second Amendment, and especially of the Florida constitutional right to bear arms (which was also raised by the challengers).

But it seems to me that, under the First Amendment, the state can’t ban someone from wearing a T-shirt or a large pin saying “I’m legally carrying a concealed handgun” at the same time that he is legally carrying a concealed handgun. The T- shirt or pin wouldn’t be a punishable threat of illegal conduct, because it is specifically referring to legal conduct, and it offers no reason to think that the wearer is going to use the gun illegally. And while wearing such an item might draw police attention, so would legal open carry.

Let’s take this sort of “announced carry” — concealed carry coupled with a statement that one is carrying — a step further. Say that some gun rights enthusiasts start wearing transparent plastic gun-shaped things strapped to their hips, in transparent holsters — something that is obviously not a real gun, but is symbolic of a real gun. (It should certainly not look like these T-shirts with realistic-looking holsters and guns printed on them.)

When asked, the wearers explain that these are symbolic of the fact that they are indeed lawfully carrying a concealed gun. The news gets out, and wearing such a transparent item on one’s hip will become understood as equivalent to a T-shirt saying “I’m legally carrying a concealed handgun.” (Compare how wearing particular ribbons or other symbols becomes understood at times as a particular kind of statement.) I likewise think this can’t be banned; the only reason to ban the holster would be the message that it sends, which would likewise violate the First Amendment.

On balance, the effect wouldn’t be terribly different from open carry, it seems to me. To be sure, some people might lie and wear the transparent plastic model (or the T-shirt or pin) when they’re not actually carrying a gun. But on balance, the person wearing the gun-carrying symbol would be using the symbol to convey to the public much the same that open carry conveys: I have a gun on me, though I’m claiming (quite likely correctly) that I’m carrying it completely lawfully.

I’m not opining here on whether this would be good for society or bad, or good for the carriers or bad. But I just thought I’d raise this as a thought experiment, to see whether people think it sheds any light on the open carry controversy.


Poster Comment:

" On balance, the effect wouldn’t be terribly different from open carry, it seems to me. To be sure, some people might lie and wear the transparent plastic model (or the T-shirt or pin) when they’re not actually carrying a gun."

Hmm, wearing such a T-shirt when you're not actually carrying a gun does sound like an interesting "thought experiment".

Anybody got any ideas on the wording? --- Here's my first brainfart: ---

---------- I CAN CARRY LEGALLY ----------

---------- Am I? ----------

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

#3. To: All (#0)

Anybody got any ideas on the wording? --- Here's my second brainstorm: ---

---------- I CAN CARRY LAWFULLY----------

---------- ACT LIKE I AM ----------

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-20   20:36:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: tpaine, All (#3)

Anybody got any ideas on the wording? --- Here's my second brainstorm: ---

---------- I CAN CARRY LAWFULLY----------

---------- ACT LIKE I AM ----------

Why would you identify yourself as a prime target like that?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-20   20:38:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: SOSO, GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#4)

I MIGHT BE CARRYING...

Unfortunately for you, there is only one way to find out. --- GrandIsland

SOSO --- Yep you will be the first to get shot by a bad guy. --- Why would you identify yourself as a prime target like that?

Maybe because I really believe that the 2nd means that we have a right to carry, and that everyone that wants to, should..

More guns, less crime, makes sense to me. -- You?

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-20   21:19:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: tpaine, GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#5)

Maybe because I really believe that the 2nd means that we have a right to carry, and that everyone that wants to, should..

Cut your high horse down several pegs, I have my conceal carry license.

"More guns, less crime, makes sense to me. -- You?"

Not in all cases. If everyone was carrying open perhaps. But when just a few are, no. The customer at the bank that is either carrying open or wears his shirt saying that he is packing concealed will likely be the first one shot by the bad guys right after they shoot the security guard(s). Or the guy in the Kosher Deli that is either carrying open or wears his shirt saying that he is packing concealed will likely be the first one shot, period, right after he hears Allahu Akbar. That makes sense to me. You?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-20   23:26:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: SOSO (#9)

I really believe that the 2nd means that we have a right to carry, and that everyone that wants to, should.. More guns, less crime, makes sense to me. -- You?

Cut your high horse down several pegs, I have my conceal carry license.

You have a CC license, but object to displays by others who claim that they may also be armed.

You base your objection on claiming that bad guys will shoot those others first.

You carry to protect your own life, and the lives of others, Correct? -- Thus, any distraction would give you an advantage to defend life. -- So why object?

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-21   11:08:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: tpaine (#11)

I really believe that the 2nd means that we have a right to carry, and that everyone that wants to, should

I believe the 2nd means every state should be like Arizona's constitutional carry.

No license or permit required, no restrictions to where and how you carry.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-21   12:04:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: GrandIsland (#12)

I really believe that the 2nd means that we have a right to carry, and that everyone that wants to, should.

I believe the 2nd means every state should be like Arizona's constitutional carry. --- No license or permit required, no restrictions to where and how you carry.

Exactly. And Article IV, Section 2, clearly says that citizens of any state are entitled to the rights/privileges of those in others.

Thus, I don't agree with the author above (Volokh), that States have the power to license concealed carry. CC should be a constitutional 'given'.

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-21   13:46:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 15.

#29. To: tpaine (#15)

" CC should be a constitutional 'given'."

I tend to agree.

Stoner  posted on  2015-02-21 17:05:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: tpaine (#15)

Thus, I don't agree with the author above (Volokh), that States have the power to license concealed carry. CC should be a constitutional 'given'.

Agreed. No other 'right' requires a permit.

We The People  posted on  2015-02-24 21:49:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

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