[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Why will Kamala Harris resign from her occupancy of the Office of Vice President of the USA? Scroll down for records/details

Secret Negotiations! Jill Biden’s Demands for $2B Library, Legal Immunity, and $100M Book Deal to Protect Biden Family Before Joe’s Exit

AI is exhausting the power grid. Tech firms are seeking a miracle solution.

Rare Van Halen Leicestershire, Donnington Park August 18, 1984 Valerie Bertinelli Cameo

If you need a Good Opening for black, use this.

"Arrogant Hunter Biden has never been held accountable — until now"

How Republicans in Key Senate Races Are Flip-Flopping on Abortion

Idaho bar sparks fury for declaring June 'Heterosexual Awesomeness Month' and giving free beers and 15% discounts to straight men

Son of Buc-ee’s co-owner indicted for filming guests in the shower and having sex. He says the law makes it OK.

South Africa warns US could be liable for ICC prosecution for supporting Israel

Today I turned 50!

San Diego Police officer resigns after getting locked in the backseat with female detainee

Gazan Refugee Warns the World about Hamas

Iranian stabbed for sharing his faith, miraculously made it across the border without a passport!

Protest and Clashes outside Trump's Bronx Rally in Crotona Park

Netanyahu Issues Warning To US Leaders Over ICC Arrest Warrants: 'You're Next'

Will it ever end?

Did Pope Francis Just Call Jesus a Liar?

Climate: The Movie (The Cold Truth) Updated 4K version

There can never be peace on Earth for as long as Islamic Sharia exists

The Victims of Benny Hinn: 30 Years of Spiritual Deception.

Trump Is Planning to Send Kill Teams to Mexico to Take Out Cartel Leaders

The Great Falling Away in the Church is Here | Tim Dilena

How Ridiculous? Blade-Less Swiss Army Knife Debuts As Weapon Laws Tighten

Jewish students beaten with sticks at University of Amsterdam

Terrorists shut down Park Avenue.

Police begin arresting democrats outside Met Gala.

The minute the total solar eclipse appeared over US

Three Types Of People To Mark And Avoid In The Church Today

Are The 4 Horsemen Of The Apocalypse About To Appear?

France sends combat troops to Ukraine battlefront

Facts you may not have heard about Muslims in England.

George Washington University raises the Hamas flag. American Flag has been removed.

Alabama students chant Take A Shower to the Hamas terrorists on campus.

In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne

In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne

Deadly Saltwater and Deadly Fresh Water to Increase

Deadly Cancers to soon Become Thing of the Past?

Plague of deadly New Diseases Continues

[FULL VIDEO] Police release bodycam footage of Monroe County District Attorney Sandra Doorley traffi

Police clash with pro-Palestine protesters on Ohio State University campus

Joe Rogan Experience #2138 - Tucker Carlson

Police Dispersing Student Protesters at USC - Breaking News Coverage (College Protests)

What Passover Means For The New Testament Believer

Are We Closer Than Ever To The Next Pandemic?

War in Ukraine Turns on Russia

what happened during total solar eclipse

Israel Attacks Iran, Report Says - LIVE Breaking News Coverage

Earth is Scorched with Heat

Antiwar Activists Chant ‘Death to America’ at Event Featuring Chicago Alderman


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

International News
See other International News Articles

Title: Ukraine Announces a Growing List of Casualties From Debaltseve Retreat
Source: nytimes.com
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/w ... impose-ukraine-cease-fire.html
Published: Feb 19, 2015
Author: DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ANDREW E. KRAME
Post Date: 2015-02-19 23:12:18 by Pericles
Keywords: Ukraine
Views: 11753
Comments: 33

MOSCOW — The Ukrainian military on Thursday said that the casualties in Debaltseve were substantially worse than initially announced...snip....

In the city of Artemivsk, where Ukrainian soldiers gathered after their retreat from Debaltseve, the harrowing human toll from the recent days of fighting was on vivid display.

Many soldiers were in a demoralized and drunken state. Shellshocked soldiers from the battle in Debaltseve wandered the streets through the day Wednesday, before beginning to drink heavily.

By Wednesday evening, gunshots were ringing out on the central square. One man stood, swaying, on the sidewalk mumbling to himself. Soldiers who had escaped from Debaltseve after weeks of shelling were commandeering taxi cabs without payment. It was not clear that all of them had been given places to sleep, and one group stood silently, shivering on a street outside the Hotel Ukraine.

And at Biblios, an upscale restaurant in Artemivsk, soldiers staggered about in the dining room, ordering brandy for which they had no money to pay, and then firing shots into the ceiling as other guests quietly fled the premises.

...snip...

Highlighting its control over Debaltseve, Russia said on Thursday that it was sending a convoy of humanitarian aid to the town.

Click for Full Text!

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 17.

#1. To: TooConservative, A Pole, Vicomte13 (#0)

The Kiev kids who bought the Bandera quasi Nazi fantasies BS paid dearly for it and were used by the West as cannon fodder to bring about its plans in the Ukraine against Russia.

The west knew this route was about to happen which is why we saw the DC foreign policy establishment go ballistic and bellicose on American TV - same thing happened when Syria's Assad govt turned the tables on the so called Free Syrian Army - then you saw McCain call for bombing. The more the west. Obama got to pretend he won in Ukraine for a few weeks but the events on the ground show that Putin is in control of the situation and in the stronger position.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-19   23:17:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pericles (#1)

The Kiev kids who bought the Bandera quasi Nazi fantasies BS paid dearly for it and were used by the West as cannon fodder to bring about its plans in the Ukraine against Russia.

I'm wondering about the present composition of the Uke military. We know the regular Uke army at the beginning of the conflict generally refused to attack their fellow-citizens with lethal force. So they called out the neo-Nazi "volunteer battalions" from the Lviv oblast. And it was the neo-Nazi element that really perpetrated the massacres of civilians in east Ukraine. As they pressed eastward and most of the civilian population fled, there was a rotation of Russian officers who just happened to choose to spend a week or two of vacation time in eastern Ukraine. The results were dramatic. The regular Uke army units that hadn't massacred were spared but they wiped out every neo-Nazi they could find and took no prisoners. Now it seems the Russians are no longer vacationing and the rebels are more standalone. In the meantime, Kiev has implemented a draft and eligible men have fled the draft, something that Western media never reports. Apparently draft-dodging is rampant in Ukraine with some areas having more than half the men fled or in hiding. You know, Transnistria is lovely in the spring if you happen to live in Odessa.     : )

I wonder how many of the neo-Nazis in the "volunteer battalions" have survived and just how many of the new recruits to the regular Uke army are willing to fire on fellow-citizens, via artillery or house-to-house fighting.

Reporting was too inconsistent to get a lot of facts six months ago. Now it is even harder to get good reporting on Ukraine. Apparently, the facts on the ground no longer matter much to anyone.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-20   5:58:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#2)

I'm wondering about the present composition of the Uke military.

I don't think the Uke military proper is involved in this fight excpet maybe as logistics? Artillery? I don't even hear the airforce being used by Kiev.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-20   10:06:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pericles (#3)

I decided to just post the AP story about the happy Cossacks. It has quite a bit of info about the battle for the town and rail head.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-20   10:32:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#6)

I decided to just post the AP story about the happy Cossacks. It has quite a bit of info about the battle for the town and rail head.

I saw that. The problem I have is the western media reports as if everyone is Ukrainian or that Russians live inside a Ukrainian homeland as a minority - like Hungarians living in the Ukraine. Their really is no true monolithic Ukrainian ethnic identity. The Ukraine just is the name of the geography between the empires of the Russians, Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and Baltic- Poles. That is what Ukraine means = borderland in rough English translation.

The Bandera's are one of these 19th century groups and mindests that try to link to some fabled past but try and take the ethnic populations living inside the borders and force them to become this new standardized ethnicity. Many Europeans in that part of the world are guilty of it, Greeks did it to the Vlachs, etc. That is what these modern Banderistas want to do to all the Slavs inside of Ukraine and force them into a template.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-20   12:27:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pericles (#7) (Edited)

That is what these modern Banderistas want to do to all the Slavs inside of Ukraine and force them into a template.

Actually, they want to kill or expel the Russian minority in the east. They also want to knock off Russia's regime, much as they attempted to do so in Belarus some years back, one of the failed Soros colour revolutions.

People don't seem to realize how many of these phony "revolutions" have been staged or attempted over the decades since the Cold War ended.

I saw a bit of FNC's coverage of the anniversary of the Maidan massacre. They tried to hype it but it was clear there were less than 200 total people present to commemorate Maidan only a year later. Then they tried to cover the return of the defeated troops returning from Debaltsevo as receiving a "hero's welcome" but there were maybe 20 people total.

It was kinda laughable.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-20   16:03:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative (#8)

Actually, they want to kill or expel the Russian minority in the east. They also want to knock off Russia's regime, much as they attempted to do so in Belarus some years back, one of the failed Soros colour revolutions.

Based on the Freeper Banderistas they have made statements that the Russians forced many Ukes to speak Russian or become Russian so these populations need to be - for lack of a betetr term - re-educated back to being Ukes - or expelled because they are invaders.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-20   16:27:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pericles (#9)

Based on the Freeper Banderistas they have made statements that the Russians forced many Ukes to speak Russian or become Russian so these populations need to be - for lack of a better term - re-educated back to being Ukes - or expelled because they are invaders.

There was a widespread Soviet effort to promote Russification of the provinces like the Baltics and Ukraine during the Stalin era. Then after Khruschev was premier, he had a de-Russification policy. So there has been a history of forcing people to speak Russian and then trying to force the Russians to speak the local dialect. This goes back to before WW II.

The region also has a sad history of population transfers and the expulsion of entire ethnic groups. Like the Circassians of Sochi who were expelled en masse by the tsar. Of particular note is that it is large Cossack militias that have maintained order there against the Chechen/Dagestani/Inguish threat. Just as Cossacks are now taking the helm in eastern Ukraine. Just like Cossacks always kept order on Russia's frontiers in the tsarist era. This use of Cossacks as a Russian security measure is far from a new thing.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-20   18:00:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: TooConservative (#10)

There was a widespread Soviet effort to promote Russification of the provinces like the Baltics and Ukraine during the Stalin era. Then after Khruschev was premier, he had a de-Russification policy. So there has been a history of forcing people to speak Russian and then trying to force the Russians to speak the local dialect. This goes back to before WW II.

Korenizatsiya (Russian: коренизация) sometimes also called korenization, meaning "nativization" or "indigenization", literally "putting down roots", was the early Soviet nationalities policy promoted mostly in the 1920s but with a continuing legacy in later years. The primary policy consisted of promoting representatives of titular nations of Soviet republics

[...]

Not only was the local cadre of the titular nations to be promoted at all levels but the ethnic Russians who served in the local governments were encouraged (or required) to learn the local culture. In most cases korenizatsiya was preceded by the delimitation of nationality-based borders for administrative and political units within the Soviet Union.

[...]

In 1923 at the 12th Party Congress, Stalin identified two threats to the success of the party's "nationalities policy": Great Power Chauvinism (Russian chauvinism) and local nationalism.[5] However, he described the former as the greater danger:

[The] Great-Russian chauvinist spirit, which is becoming stronger and stronger owing to the N.E.P., . . . [finds] expression in an arrogantly disdainful and heartlessly bureaucratic attitude on the part of Russian Soviet officials towards the needs and requirements of the national republics. The multi-national Soviet state can become really durable, and the co-operation of the peoples within it really fraternal, only if these survivals are vigorously and irrevocably eradicated from the practice of our state institutions. Hence, the first immediate task of our Party is vigorously to combat the survivals of Great-Russian chauvinism.

[...]

And in the very large Ukrainian Republic, the program of Ukrainianization led to a profound shift of the language of instruction in schools to Ukrainian

[...]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiya

A Pole  posted on  2015-02-20   19:41:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A Pole (#11)

And in the very large Ukrainian Republic, the program of Ukrainianization led to a profound shift of the language of instruction in schools to Ukrainian

I kinda doubt it was such a profound shift. It's a stretch to consider Ukrainian as much more than a Russian dialect.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-20   19:54:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#12) (Edited)

It's a stretch to consider Ukrainian as much more than a Russian dialect.

Ukrainian was developed into literary language in Lvov area under Austrian rule in XIX century (the city Lvov was mainly Polish at that time). This area was joined to Ukraine by Stalin after WWII, until that time it was a part of Poland since XIV century (ruled by Austria in XIX century).

The large area around Kiev uses a transitory dialect called Surzhyk but as it is considered low class, most people declare Russian or Ukrainian (depending who is asking) as their first language. South and East are Russian speaking (joined to Ukraine by Lenin in 1920s)

A Pole  posted on  2015-02-20   20:56:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A Pole, TooConservative (#13)

To my non Slav ears Ukrainian and Russian sounds almost identical except for last names.

How different are they? Is it the difference between how English is spoken in Jamaica vs England (where there are also wide differences), Or English from Alabama vs Manchester English?

Or is it the difference between Spanish and Portuguese?

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-21   11:53:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pericles (#14)

Or is it the difference between Spanish and Portuguese?

Closer than that but not as close as British English vs. American English.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-21   16:50:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 17.

        There are no replies to Comment # 17.


End Trace Mode for Comment # 17.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com