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Title: Retired Teacher Faces 10 Years In Prison For Possession Of Antique Flintlock Pistol
Source:
inquisitr.com
URL Source: http://www.inquisitr.com/1849436/re ... n-of-antique-flintlock-pistol/
Published: Feb 17, 2015
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2015-02-17 17:41:46 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 11672
Comments: 38
Retired teacher Gordon Van Gilder, 72, could be sent to jail for up to 10 years for possession of a unloaded antique flintlock pistol. New Jersey’s strict gun control law makes no distinction between a loaded, modern weapon such as a.44 Magnum and an antique firearm. A history buff and memorabilia collector, Van Gilder had the unloaded 300- year-old pistol in his car when he was pulled over in a routine traffic stop in Cumberland County, New Jersey, last November. In consenting to a search of the vehicle, the ex-educator informed cops that the antique was wrapped in cloth in the glove compartment. One of the cops wanted to let him go following the search, but the Cumberland County Sheriff nixed that idea. The next morning, several officers showed up at Van Gilder’s home and took him into custody. If convicted, Van Gilder faces a 10-year prison sentence, with a mandatory minimum of three to five years without parole. A felony conviction even without jail time could also among other things jeopardize his pension, which he earned after working 34 years in the New Jersey school system, Legal Insurrection detailed. “While Gordon noted that he was probably in violation of the law, he wasn’t if he was going by the federal statute, which exempts such a class of firearms. The conflict between state and federal laws is a constitutional question,” Townhall explained. Prosecutors even plan to run a ballistics test on the collectable for whatever reason. “[A] flintlock pistol dates back to the 17th century and [was] used in the American Civil War…Eventually technology advanced and the flintlocks simply became collectors items, one of the main reasons being it would take up to a whole minute to load one shot,” the Daily Surge observed. In the meantime, Van Gilder, who is fighting the charges in court, won’t be cutting any promos for the Garden State, an area he plans to leave sooner rather than later. “Beware of New Jersey. Don’t come here. Don’t live here,” he declared. As you may recall, New Jersey is the same state that initially planned to prosecute Philadelphia single mom and nurse Shaneen Allen for violating the state’s gun control laws. A licensed gun owner, Allen was pulled over in south Jersey at a time when she was unaware that the neighboring states lacked reciprocity as far as firearms permits are concerned. Perhaps owing to the public outcry, the Atlantic County prosecutor who let Baltimore Ravens star Ray Rice off the hook allowed Allen the same form of leniency, i.e., a divergence program similar to pre-trial probation, which will result in the charges being dropped on successful completion of the program.
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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)
NO the government is violating his rights.
There's your problem right there.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If challenged in court -- on the basis that because of its antiquity, the pistol is 'harmless', --- a ballistic test would prove that it likely is as powerful as a modern shotgun of a comparable caliber/gauge, loaded with suitable powder and shot or slug. The only valid challenge to this stupid 'law', -- Is the constitutional one, -- and no doubt, catch 22, -- New Jersey is one of those states where his lawyer will be prevented from raising constitutional issues until the case is appealed.. We are rapidly approaching Claire Wolfe 'time'...
If they try to fire the pistol it will probably destroy it or at least seriously damage it. We do live in a totally f*cked in the head country.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Yep.
It isn't about gun safety. It is about forcing people to comply with the "Rule of Law", whatever the bends and twists of the rule might be. It's a German trait, and Germans predominate in America, so it's not too terribly surprising.
Almost all firearms that government officials confiscate are not replaceable after confiscation; they are 1) destroyed, 2) mishandled and abused, 3) not returned to the rightful, law abiding citizen to begin with. That 300 year old flintlock is going to be destroyed one way or another by the government.
Nobody was using flintlock pistols in Mr.Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression. They were used in the Revolutionary War,but flintlocks had become obsolete long before the war of 1861 started and everybody was firing cartridge guns.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
It will disappear into some judges or politicians private collection.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
What is this: Springfield Model 1861 Rifle - The main weapon used during the US Civil War, identifiable by its block rear sight, barrel bands with retaining springs, curved buttplate and C-shaped hammer. Springfield Rifle Musket - This was a single shot, muzzle-loading gun that used the percussion cap firing mechanism. It had a rifled barrel, and fired the .58 caliber Minié ball. The first rifled muskets had used a larger .69 caliber Minié ball, since they had simply taken .69 caliber smooth bore muskets and rifled their barrels. Tests conducted by the U.S. Army indicated that the .58 caliber was more accurate at a distance. After experimenting with the failed Maynard primer system on the Model 1855 musket, the Model 1861 reverted to the more reliable percussion lock. The first Model 1861 Springfields were delivered late in that year and during 1862 gradually became the most common weapon carried by Union infantry in the eastern theater. Western armies were slower to obtain Springfield rifles, and they were not widely used there until the middle of 1863. Rifles were more accurate than smooth bore muskets, and could have been made using shorter barrels. However, the military was still using tactics such as firing by ranks, and feared that shorter barrels would result in soldiers in the back ranks accidentally shooting front rank soldiers in the back of the head. Bayonet fighting was also important at this time, which also made militaries reluctant to shorten the barrels. The Springfield Model 1861 therefore used a three-band barrel, making it just as long as the smoothbore muskets that it had replaced. The 38-inch-long rifled barrel made it a very accurate weapon, and it was possible to hit a man sized target with a Minié ball as far away as 500 yards (460 m). To reflect this longer range, the Springfield was fitted with two flip up sights, one set for 300 yards (270 m) and the other for 500. Along with a revised 1863 model, it was the last muzzle-loading weapon ever adopted by the US Army. By the end of the war, approximately 1.5 million Springfield rifle muskets had been produced by the Springfield Armory and 20 subcontractors. Since the South lacked sufficient manufacturing capability, most of the Springfields in Southern hands were captured on the battlefields during the war. Many older Springfield rifle muskets, such as the Model 1855 and 1842, were brought out of storage and used due to arms shortages. Many smooth bore muskets dating all the way back to the Springfield Model 1812 were brought out of storage for similar reasons. These old and obsolete weapons were replaced by newer weapons as they became available.
Pete made an observation about flintlocks. And you paste up an article about percussion lock muskets, and ask: --- What is this? --- What's with you?
What is this: Springfield Model 1861 Rifle Not a flintlock,and not the trapdoor Springfield that was issued to front line troops and the rifle most seen in photos of the war.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I am asking Pete a question to learn... If I want something from you, stalker, I will ask you.
Thanks, I did not know the difference. Now I do.
Pete made an observation about flintlocks. And you paste up an article about percussion lock muskets, and ask: --- What is this? --- What's with you? No, you were pasting up an article that you hoped would refute Pete's comment. - - And you failed.. Poor gatley, reduced to name calling once again.. Grow up..
Nope!
I got it, I think. It appears the North had the percussion cap, but the South had to use some flintlocks….assuming the information in this article is true. By 1861, the flintlock was old tech. All modern armies used the percussion cap, an explosive cap struck by a hammer that replaced the unwieldy and often unreliable flint and pan. The problem was, many people hadn't caught up. Underfunded local militias, who hadn't heard a shot fired in anger in a generation, often still carried flintlocks. Many rural farmers also had flintlocks as family heirlooms. Modern guns were pricey and the flintlock was still good enough for hunting. But not good enough for the modern battlefield. Armies on both sides scrambled to supply enough percussion lock rifles for their troops. The industrial North soon had this sorted out, and government contractors got rich selling modern weapons or refitting flintlocks into percussion locks. The South, however, lagged behind. Many regiments required individuals to bring their own guns and were thus a motley collection of flintlocks, shotguns, and percussion rifles scrounged from dead Yankees. http://civilwarhorror.blogspot.com/2013/04/flintlocks-in-american- civil-war.html. I looked at pictures and I can see the difference in the hammer action.
Yet another brilliant attempt to save face...
Stop stalking and bothering me....just to attack me. If you have something pertinent to add, then I will of course listen.
Stop stalking and bothering me....just to attack me. You imagine I'm stalking you. The truth is right above, where I asked you what you were doing in your paste up job attempting to ridicule Pete's comment. I just made some pertinent comments about your behaviour. -- Listen, and learn. By the way, congrats on are in order.. Your not hiding behind the bozo function is a sign of real progress.. Keep up the good work.
What you fail to understand is that you are guilty of what you accused me of doing. I do listen and learn....I ask questions to learn. I started off by asking Pete, "What is this?" You incorrectly ASSUMED I was challenging Pete's statement. Don't always go around in the "cocked" position looking for someone to challenge and argue with. Relax, enjoy life. I am through with you for now.
You incorrectly ASSUMED I was challenging Pete's statement. Silly claim. Your posting history here and at LP belies you. You fail to understand, --- that you are guilty of what you accuse me of doing... -- I don't stalk you. -- I make comments about what you post, --- that's what a forum is all about. Get it ? Fine with me. But rest assured, the next time you paste up some silly crap, you'll get corrected.
Probably? No. Definitely? Yes. He lives in New Jersey. He and his fellow New Jersey citizens passed these laws. These are the laws HE wanted. Now he wants us to make an exception just for him. Screw that. Next time, transport your weapon in the trunk or apply for a concealed carry license. Or, get your legislators to make an exemption for antique pistols. Stop your whining already and f**king man up.
A rifle musket? A rifle has "rifling". A musket is smooth-bore.
Yep, he lives in New Jersey. He and his fellow New Jersey citizens elected representatives who swore an oath to honor our Constitution, -- yet ignored it when they passed these laws. These are NOT the laws HE wanted , they are unconstitutional acts of rogue politicians, backed up by a majority of people who think like misterwhite.
A rifle musket? A rifle has "rifling". A musket is smooth-bore. misterwhite A rifled musket has rifling cut into the barrel.. Think of a rifled shotgun; it's comparable.
Don't let the hammer design fool you. It is still being used today. Read this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle and pay special attention to the carbines and how many of them were issued in the war. Most used paper cartridges in the falling block action with a percussion cap,but some late in the war were using brass cartridges. The paper and brass cartridges along with the falling block action made the rate of fire MUCH faster than the muzzle loaders. Note also there was a 7 shot Spencer Carbine issued to some yankee Calvary troops,and some of the CSA calvary were armed with with them also. Also,IIRC,the some Confederates were armed with French rifles that had either revolving cylinders or a magazine. There were also percussion cap revolvers used by both sides Here is another link that proves brass cartridges were used in the Civil War. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29 Now you know more about Civil War firearms than you ever wanted to know.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
A rifle musket? A rifle has "rifling". A musket is smooth-bore. Both true and untrue. The confusion comes about because a lot of muskets were later bored with rifling reamers to become rifles. It may have been made and identified as a musket,but it actually became a rifle. BTW,AFAIK,the first one to use a rifle in combat in America was a Scottish Major in the Revolutionary War named Ferguson (who designed the rifle that bears his name) that fought for the British and was killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in NC. It was a breech loader instead of a muzzle loader,and it was rifled. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_rifle Damn good thing for us the British were too cheap to spend the money to up the production and issue more of them to their men because they loaded and fired a HELL of a lot faster than the muskets most Red Coats carried.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The single shot falling block action (in the hands of a good rifleman) can still keep up with most bolt action rifles, in rate of fire.. It's much like on the skeet range, when they have shoot offs between three shot pumps, autos, and double guns. The double gun shooters often shoot more clays, in less time, than the autos. -- Less time is spent on fumbling about on loading...
I read both, thanks.
And the wounds those dead soft 500 or so grain mini-balls made were horrendous. They didn't travel very fast,but they hit like a train and expanded as they hit. Traumatic amputations were common. The man that owned the house in 1918 on the property where I live now was a CSA veteran who lost a leg during the Civil War to a mini-ball. My mother and aunt used to do his housework,wash his clothes,and cook for him when they were little girls. Mean old SOB,too. Drank a lot,probably related to the pain in his shot off leg bone. Word got back to the KKK that he was abusing those little girls sent to help him,and the KKK showed up one night on horseback and called him out in the yard over it and told him if they heard of it happening again they would come back and tie him to the weeping willow tree out in the yard and horsewhip him until their arms got tired. There was no such thing as appealing THAT "court decision",either. They weren't playing. My mother said the old man never bothered them again. There was no such critter as family courts and welfare agents back then. Or even laws against working minors 12 hours a day or not sending them to school. The KKK was the only "real" law for white people after the Civil War,and since they had no jail cells or formal courts,their sentences tended to be brutal and applied without hesitation.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Not in Buffulo County, Wisconsin, where my grandfather was born in 1860, just before the war started. He could vaguely remember the celebrations when it ended, as a five year old.. He told me a lot of stories about the wild west, and frontier justice, before he died in 1954, just before I went in the army.. Those were good days...
I just told Pete about my grandfather, born just before the civil war, - where flintlocks were used, -- and who died in 1954, well after atomic bombs were used in war. I'd never thought about his life in quite that way.. Thanks for your info..
Wisconsin didn't go through Reconstruction,where all local sheriff's,judges,and even congressmen and senators were appointed to their office by yankee investors and abolitionists. That's where the term "Carpetbagger" came from. Their only real interest was in punishing the south and stealing the land for unpaid back taxes to sell to their relatives and political sponsors.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
My parents both lived and died without ever even hearing about microwave ovens,DVD,cell phones,or even VCR's.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
These are NOT the laws HE wanted , they are unconstitutional acts of rogue politicians, backed up by a majority of people who think like misterwhite. No, Townhall did not explain how the conflict between the state and federal law was a constitutional question. How does the State law conflict with Federal law? How does it permit something that Federal law prohibits? The Federal statute law exempts antique firearms from the restrictions of a Federal statute provision. It does not provide an exemption from a State law restriction. The question would seem to be whether the New Jersey law is just flat out unconstitutional in violation of Amendment 2, rather than in conflict with a Federal statute. I would specifically question the constitutionality of requiring a permit, and for the permit requiring a justifiable need to carry a handgun. http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/njcode/ TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY § 13:54-1.2 Definitions The words and terms used in this chapter shall have the following meanings: "Ammunition" means various projectiles, including bullets, missiles, slugs or balls together with fuses, propelling charges and primers that may be fired, ejected, projected, released, or emitted from firearms or weapons. "Antique cannon" means any weapon which satisfies the definition of an antique firearm and which is also capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than .60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes. "Antique firearm" means any firearm, which is incapable of being fired or discharged, or which does not fire fixed ammunition regardless of the date of manufacture, or was manufactured before 1898, for which cartridge ammunition is not commercially available, and is possessed as a curiosity or ornament or for its historical significance or value. [...] "Handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of a single hand. TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY § 13:54-2.2 Permit required No person, except as provided in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6, shall carry, hold or possess a handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-6 TITLE 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE 2C:39-6 Exemptions. [...] d. (1) Subsections c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 do not apply to antique firearms, provided that such antique firearms are unloaded or are being fired for the purposes of exhibition or demonstration at an authorized target range or in such other manner as has been approved in writing by the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality in which the exhibition or demonstration is held, or if not held on property under the control of a particular municipality, the superintendent. http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-39-5/ [Note: the blue fonted items (c & d) are the ones exempted by 2C:39-6 Exemptions.] Title 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE Section 2C:39-5 - Unlawful possession of weapons. Universal Citation: NJ Rev Stat § 2C:39-5 (2013) 2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons. 2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. b. Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree. c. Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. (2) Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree. d. Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. e. Firearms or other weapons in educational institutions. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution, without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, is guilty of a crime of the third degree, irrespective of whether he possesses a valid permit to carry the firearm or a valid firearms purchaser identification card. (2) Any person who knowingly possesses any weapon enumerated in paragraphs (3) and (4) of subsection r. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 or any components which can readily be assembled into a firearm or other weapon enumerated in subsection r. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 or any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful use as it may have, while in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. (3) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any imitation firearm in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution, without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, or while on any school bus is a disorderly person, irrespective of whether he possesses a valid permit to carry a firearm or a valid firearms purchaser identification card. f. Assault firearms. Any person who knowingly has in his possession an assault firearm is guilty of a crime of the second degree except if the assault firearm is licensed pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-5; registered pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12); or rendered inoperable pursuant to section 12 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-13). g. (1) The temporary possession of a handgun, rifle or shotgun by a person receiving, possessing, carrying or using the handgun, rifle, or shotgun under the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1) shall not be considered unlawful possession under the provisions of subsection b. or c. of this section. (2) The temporary possession of a firearm by a person receiving, possessing, carrying or using the firearm under the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2) shall not be considered unlawful possession under the provisions of this section. h. A person who is convicted of a crime under subsection a., b. or f. of this section shall be ineligible for participation in any program of intensive supervision; provided, however, that this provision shall not apply to a crime under subsection b. involving only a handgun which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. i. A person convicted of violating subsection a., b. or f. of this section shall be sentenced by the court to a term of imprisonment, which shall include the imposition of a minimum term during which the defendant shall be ineligible for parole, if the court finds that the aggravating circumstance set forth in paragraph (5) of subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:44-1 applies. The minimum term of parole ineligibility shall be fixed at five years. The sentencing court shall make a finding on the record as to whether the aggravating circumstance set forth in paragraph (5) of subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:44-1 applies, and the court shall presume that there is a substantial likelihood that the defendant is involved in organized criminal activity if there is a substantial likelihood that the defendant is a member of an organization or group that engages in criminal activity. The prosecution at the sentencing hearing shall have the initial burden of producing evidence or information concerning the defendant's membership in such an organization or group. Amended 1979, c.179, s.4; 1990, c.32, s.2; 1992, c.74, s.2; 1992, c.94, s.1; 1995, c.389; 1997, c.375, s.2; 2007, c.284; 2009, c.13. http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-58-4/ Title 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE Section 2C:58-4 - Permits to carry handguns Universal Citation: NJ Rev Stat § 2C:58-4 (2013) 2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit. All permits to carry handguns shall expire 2 years from the date of issuance or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his employment by the company occurring prior thereto whichever is earlier in time, and they may thereafter be renewed every 2 years in the same manner and subject to the same conditions as in the case of original applications. b. Application forms. All applications for permits to carry handguns, and all applications for renewal of such permits, shall be made on the forms prescribed by the superintendent. Each application shall set forth the full name, date of birth, sex, residence, occupation, place of business or employment, and physical description of the applicant, and such other information as the superintendent may prescribe for the determination of the applicant's eligibility for a permit and for the proper enforcement of this chapter. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath, and shall be indorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least 3 years preceding the date of application, and who shall certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry. No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing. d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00. e. Appeals from denial of applications. Any person aggrieved by the denial by the chief police officer or the superintendent of approval for a permit to carry a handgun may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he resides or in any county in which he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident, by filing a written request for such a hearing within 30 days of the denial. Copies of the request shall be served upon the superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he is a resident of this State. The hearing shall be held within 30 days of the filing of the request, and no formal pleading or filing fee shall be required. Appeals from the determination at such a hearing shall be in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State. If the superintendent or chief police officer approves an application and the Superior Court denies the application and refuses to issue a permit, the applicant may appeal such denial in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State. f. Revocation of permits. Any permit issued under this section shall be void at such time as the holder thereof becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., and the holder of such a void permit shall immediately surrender the permit to the superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority. Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing upon notice to the holder, if the court finds that the holder is no longer qualified for the issuance of such a permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the superintendent or any citizen may apply to the court at any time for the revocation of any permit issued pursuant to this section. L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:58-4, eff. Sept. 1, 1979. Amended by L.1979, c. 179, s. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 1979; L.1981, c. 135, s. 1.
I started off by asking Pete, "What is this?" You incorrectly ASSUMED I was challenging Pete's statement. oh bullshit, you're a third rate troll.
Thanks for your reply.. You know what my position is on this issue. -- Lets see whether misterwhite can make a rational reply addressing his take on these odious New Jersey 'Laws'... Odds are he won't have the guts to make any real points..
“While Gordon noted that he was probably in violation of the
law,
#2. To: Gatlin (#0)
New Jersey’s strict
#3. To: Gatlin, Y'ALL (#0)
Prosecutors even plan to run a ballistics test on the collectable for whatever reason. ----
#4. To: Gatlin, All (#0)
Prosecutors even plan to run a ballistics test on the collectable for whatever reason.
#5. To: SOSO (#4)
#6. To: Gatlin (#0)
#7. To: Gatlin (#0)
Prosecutors even plan to run a ballistics test on the collectable for whatever reason.
#8. To: Gatlin (#0)
Prosecutors even plan to run a ballistics test on the collectable for whatever reason. “[A] flintlock pistol dates back to the 17th century and [was] used in the American Civil War…Eventually technology advanced and the flintlocks simply became collectors items, one of the main reasons being it would take up to a whole minute to load one shot,” the Daily Surge observed.
#9. To: Pridie.Nones (#7)
That 300 year old flintlock is going to be destroyed one way or another by the government.
#10. To: sneakypete (#8)
They were used in the Revolutionary War,but flintlocks had become obsolete long before the war of 1861 started and everybody was firing cartridge guns.
#11. To: Gatlin (#10)
#12. To: Gatlin (#10)
They were used in the Revolutionary War,but flintlocks had become obsolete long before the war of 1861 started and everybody was firing cartridge guns.
#13. To: tpaine (#11)
(Edited)
What's with you?
#14. To: sneakypete (#12)
#15. To: Gatlin (#13)
I am asking Pete a question to learn...
If I want something from you, stalker, I will ask you.
#16. To: tpaine (#15)
No, you were pasting up an article that you hoped would refute Pete's comment. - - And you failed..
#17. To: Sneakypete (#14)
(Edited)
#18. To: Gatlin (#16)
Nope!
#19. To: tpaine (#18)
#20. To: Gatlin (#19)
If you have something pertinent to add, then I will of course listen.
#21. To: tpaine (#20)
#22. To: Gatlin (#21)
What you fail to understand is that you are guilty of what you accused me of doing
I am through with you for now…
#23. To: Gatlin (#0)
"While Gordon noted that he was probably in violation of the law ..."
#24. To: Gatlin (#10)
"Springfield Rifle Musket"
#25. To: Y'ALL, misterwhite favors majority rule (#23)
He lives in New Jersey. He and his fellow New Jersey citizens passed these laws. These are the laws HE wanted.
#26. To: misterwhite (#24)
Gatlin (#10) "Springfield Rifle Musket"
#27. To: Gatlin (#17)
I looked at pictures and I can see the difference in the hammer action.
#28. To: misterwhite (#24)
"Springfield Rifle Musket"
#29. To: sneakypete (#27)
The paper and brass cartridges along with the falling block action made the rate of fire MUCH faster than the muzzle loaders.
#30. To: sneakypete (#27)
#31. To: tpaine (#29)
The single shot falling block action (in the hands of a good rifleman) can still keep up with most bolt action rifles, in rate of fire..
#32. To: sneakypete (#31)
(Edited)
The KKK was the only "real" law for white people after the Civil War, ---
#33. To: Gatlin (#17)
(Edited)
It appears the North had the percussion cap, but the South had to use some flintlocks….assuming the information in this article is true.
#34. To: tpaine (#32)
Not in Buffulo County, Wisconsin, where my grandfather was born in 1860, just before the war started.
#35. To: tpaine (#33)
I'd never thought about his life in quite that way.. Thanks for your info..
#36. To: tpaine, misterwhite (#25)
Yep, he lives in New Jersey. He and his fellow New Jersey citizens elected representatives who swore an oath to honor our Constitution, -- yet ignored it when they passed these laws.
“While Gordon noted that he was probably in violation of the law, he wasn’t if he was going by the federal statute, which exempts such a class of firearms. The conflict between state and federal laws is a constitutional question,” Townhall explained.
The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun.
CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS
SUBCHAPTER 1. FIREARMS PURCHASER IDENTIFICATION CARD AND PERMIT TO PURCHASE A HANDGUN N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 (2015)
CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS
SUBCHAPTER 2. HANDGUNS N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.2 (2015)
2009 New Jersey Code
2013 New Jersey Revised Statutes
2013 New Jersey Revised Statutes
#37. To: Gatlin (#21)
I do listen and learn....I ask questions to learn.
#38. To: nolu chan (#36)
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