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Title: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
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Published: Feb 14, 2015
Author: nra
Post Date: 2015-02-14 13:46:27 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 19463
Comments: 90
www.nraila.org BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo Friday, February 13, 2015 In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. View Related Articles It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible. By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles: Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge. Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes. BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments. How to comment – from the BATFE ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method): ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.
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#51. To: tpaine (#47)
I intend to. GrandIsland is a publick exhibit about total BS.
I've already told you why I amassed a huge supply of primers.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Sorry, but your efforts here to impress us, --- remind me of Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
"Having" and "needs" are two different questions. I asked about your needs. Why in the world do you have so many primers?
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place? Your question sounds like something Andrew Cuomo would ask. That's why I moved from NYS... so I wouldn't have to deal with people like you that don't think I should have 50,000 primers. Cuck Fuomo
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Your remarck is strangely reminiscinent of a POS chatter that moves the questions offered into obscure oblivion. You can tell the channel why you have 50,000 primers. I also want to know your personal reasons because shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
How do you rotate your inventory with so many primers on hand? I assume from 1985 you have a FIFO system and through time you have kept accurate track of which primers to use FIRST. Ho do you keep track of your inventory?
Don't be ridiculous. I've loaded and used primers over 30 years old. I've had zero issues with functionality or accuracy. You aren't a good enough pistol shooter to see a difference in accuracy from a 1 month old box of primers to a 15 year old box of primers... if there's a reduction in accuracy at all. I suggest you bench rest test old primers vs new primers. You might be presently surprised. I've even tested 20-30 year old IMR powders in 30.06, 25-06, 243, 308 and 260 Rem.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He bounced 12 gauge rubber slugs off of bears, and the squirrels somehow got trampled in the confusion.
You didn't answer my question. I want to know how you control your "50.000 primers" in a cool dark place. Do you have an advanced inventory control software program that alerts you to use any previously stored primers because of your suggested awesome inventory?
You aren't serious are you? It's not hard to manage 50 small boxes of 1,000 I don't worry about age. Like I've said, I've not seen a noticeable difference in older primers vs newer primers... but I do try and use my oldest boxes first as I open a new box of 1,000 and then I replace that box by buying a new box of 1,000.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Since you replace your inventory on a "1,000 tin box" basis as you see fit, how do you manage so many boxes in your "cool dark place?" Why are you expending 1000 rounds so often?
Because I shoot... A LOT. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If you really SHOOT A LOT, then there is a purpose for your intent. I am intersted about your managed capability to control your 50,000 primers, however. You claim that since 1985, you have amassed all this inventory. Yet, you really don't show any serious shooting skills other than buying primers and placing the primers into your "cool, dark" warehouse. You cannot tell me you are serious about any of your claims unless you are an ouright liar.
Oh, please. I'm a certified firearms instructor and a past IPSC shooter. I'd out shoot you in both accuracy and time on any pistol course. I've been hand loading ammo since 1985... I've been amassing supplies since 2008. Try and keep up.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Kenneth L. Walters: The original batch of Unique was made somewhere in the 1890. Every year or two they test a small portion of it to see if it has deteriorated. Last time I hear, and it has been awhile, no deterioration. As long as you don't store it somewhere hot it should be fine indefinitely. Certainly hope so as I have 260 pounds in the garage. Think that primers are ever less likely to deteriorate. Certainly hope so as I have 275,000 in the garage. Shelf life of CCI military rifle primers: There are many, many similar stories. I simply decided to stop copying at this point. For someone totally unfamiliar with the subject and just reading about it for the first time….you information appears to be correct to me.
Canary ... I see you jumped in to help out your buddy. Too cool as your antic is totally predictable. Strangely, your pal can not defend himself at all. He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
When I started reloading in 1985, I was given a few hundred CCI magnum large rifle primers that were about 20-25 years old. I also bought brand new large rifle primers that weren't "magnum". I did several tests with both primers in 30.06. I found both grouped just as well at 100 yards, both less than 1" This poster is just assuming that age matters. It might in some circumstances, but I haven't found any yet. I've even had good luck using 20 year old IMR powder. I shot it all up... wish I still had it. He is sounding ignorant, trying to discredit me because he simply doesn't like me. Period.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
There are people on the Web who state the same. How is what he says wrong?
Of course....that is so obvious. oldred: I am using some primers now that I bought back in 1977, I bought several thousand of these and they were stored along with my other gear for years while my shooting life was on hold due to making a living. After I retired I dusted off my guns (well not actually "dusted off", just a figure of speech) and other gear and I have been busy trying to use it all up! These were stored with no special care just placed in cardboard boxes and stored in a dry garage for a while then in a large closet for several years when I moved to another house. Some of the powder I had stored had deteriorated some, most notably the 3031, but most of the other powders were ok. The fact that some of the powder had deteriorated demonstrates that storage conditions were not 100% ideal but the powder was all that was harmed, the primers are as good as the day I bought them!
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics.
One last time. If stored properly, primers don't go bad. I don't worry about rotating or managing my supply since they don't go bad... but when I open up a new box of 1,000... I try an pick the oldest box in my supply.... then replace it with a new store bough box. It's not that difficult.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
They aren't cigars. lol They just need a cool, dry, dark place.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics. From what I read on the Web, people have stored them in various conditions and they still work well. Just because you haven't done something....doesn't make it wrong!
The Web is full of testimonials for this!
50,000 primers? You read this sort of BS all the time, do ya?
That's 100% accurate. If he doesn't wanna stock up on primers because he thinks they will mold like bread.... fine. I don't wanna hear him cry when they are outlawed for public sale, the manufactures will all comply... and he cries. I'll have enough to last me... and they will all work just fine.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Your storage system is not controlled. You have about 50,000 silly little non-accountable primers worthless to anyone other than your own braggin'.
Char Gar: In 1965 when the war in Viet Nam started to get hot and heavy, I ran down and stocked up on primers. I had head the stories about how hard they were to obtain in WWII and didn't want to get caught without. I wrapped up my stash in multiple layers of foil and sealed them with tape. I continue to buy new primers and hang on to the stash. About ten years later, I realized that I didn't need the stash, I started to shoot them up. I use very few SR primers, so I still have about a thousand of 1965 Winchester SR primers. Two years ago I loaded some ammo up (25-20) with them and some fresh Winchester SR primers and went to the range. The 1965 primers turned in slightly better group that the 2010 primers. So the shelf life of primers if stored indoors is at least 47 years.
Well, to be honest, I never checked the web. I tested old primers personally. I have direct knowledge. I've shot them out of pistols and rifles. I don't care what he thinks.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
There to many, many shooters on the Web that say the same thing as GI. Give it up!
I couldn't see a noticeable difference when I tested new vs used. I can imagine in some cases they would out perform new. I did load an old IMR power I was given, in .243... and the old powder grouped better than the new.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He is just another self-righteous asshole who feels he can characterize with an unfounded certainty. He must always strive to show that he is totally correct and morally superior.
I'll send you a link via LF Mail. Tell me what you think.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
His "morally superior" will leave him with nothing to shoot once government realizes that they will never be able to control guns or eliminate them in society... so they will attempt to control ammo manufacture... and when they realize that doesn't work because non sheep reload... THEY WILL TRY TO CONTROL THE ONE THING WE CANT MAKE IN THE BASEMENT... THE PRIMER. I'll be ready. lol Just watch... he'll still say I haven't given him a reason why I amassed 50,000 primers. LOL
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
One guy stated he has 250,000 stored.
How useful is a wet or damp primer wherein the chemical compoition has been eroded by your uncontrolled storage system? If you have 50,000 primers, I wager you only have 500 useful primers.
Smart guy. If I had unlimited funds, I'd have bought 100,000... then once they were outlawed, I'd have sold 20,000 to Pridie.Nones for 300.00 a box... if he begged and apologized. At 32.00 a box of 1000, it adds up. 50 boxes is enough for just me.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
How useful is a wet or damp primer wherein the chemical compoition has been eroded by your uncontrolled storage system? If you have 50,000 primers, I wager you only have 500 useful primers. You'd lose that bet.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Regarding M855, we are not sure what is going to happen. If there is no ban, then prices may drop, but not for a while, (if ever). Frankly, this has caused another round of panic buying and we are trying our best to fill the orders. A limited amount of Lake City XM855 is also inbound and will be for sale upon arrival. https://www.wideners.com/ Looks like we have another run on ammo starting. BTW didn't this issue come up about 3 or 4 years ago and M855 was deemed "NOT TO BE ARMOR PIERCING AMMO"??
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
But please, do keep up your efforts to entertain, and to impress us all with your gun lore expertise..
#52. To: Pridie.Nones (#50)
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place?
#53. To: Pridie.Nones (#51)
#54. To: GrandIsland (#52)
#55. To: Pridie.Nones, tpaine (#50)
To: GrandIsland
#56. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#57. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#58. To: Pridie.Nones (#56)
shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
#59. To: tpaine, 12 gauge rubber slugs, bear foreplay (#53)
Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#60. To: GrandIsland (#58)
I suggest you bench rest test old primers vs new primers. You might be presently surprised.
#61. To: Pridie.Nones (#57)
(Edited)
How do you rotate your inventory with so many primers on hand?
#62. To: GrandIsland (#61)
#63. To: Pridie.Nones (#62)
Why are you expending 1000 rounds so often?
#64. To: GrandIsland (#63)
Because I shoot... A LOT.
#65. To: Pridie.Nones (#64)
#66. To: GrandIsland (#58)
(Edited)
I have never reloaded. I became interested in the post exchanges going on here and decided to do some research. I found the following information on my first hit.
Ruger4570: In the past I have shot tons of Military 30-06 ammo dating all the way back to 1917 and it all shot. I don't remember any misfires, hangfires or non-fires.
Dark Canyon: I've used 30 year old powder and 15 year old primers with very good results.
Edward429451: I've been working my way through some cans of old powder and a few thousand primers that are from the 70's & 80's and haven't had a problem with any of them.
keebo52: Powder, primers and loaded ammo will last a long time if stored properly. I got out of reloading in 1990 and started back last year. I'm shooting loads that I made in the mid 80s and have been using the old powder and primers without a problem. I just finished loading some .223 ammo with IMR 4198 powder that I paid about $7-8 per pound when I bought it back in the 80s. Those were the good old days.
dogfood: I am currently shooting Winchester primers that I bought in 1989 and Winchester powder that I bought in 1991. Typically, its been stored in the basement, but I have moved twice since then, so it has spent limited time in a hot truck. Zero problems so far.
Source: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213554
medalguy: You won't see them go bad in your lifetime as long as they are stored in reasonable temperatures. Keep them in the original packaging and put them on the shelf. Primers are good for longer than you might think. I've tried primers nearly 55 years old and they still worked.
HughUno: "regular" primers will essentially (if stored reasonably well) last FOREVER. "lead-free" primers (which nobody much buys or uses) are likely to last 25+ years (based upon industry testing).
will77: Primers will outlast most of us if stored correctly, im using cci primers right now that were made in the 80's.Like most reloaders i rember the shortages of 08,and 09 i also rember 1994 1995 could not find anything then primers powder nada.The first sortage taught me a lesson buy as much as you can replace what you shoot,that way when something happens you can weather the storm so to speak.
Tuna 1: I have used Winchester and Remington primers from the late 1940's and the 1950's just last year. And everyone of them shot just fine. Cool dry storage is the key.
Source: http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-51137.html
#67. To: Gatlin (#66)
(Edited)
#68. To: Gatlin (#66)
#69. To: Pridie.Nones, GrandIsland (#67)
He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
#70. To: GrandIsland (#68)
(Edited)
He is sounding ignorant, trying to discredit me because he simply doesn't like me. Period.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf- life
#71. To: Gatlin (#69)
How is what he says wrong?
#72. To: Pridie.Nones (#67)
Strangely, your pal can not defend himself at all. He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
#73. To: Pridie.Nones (#71)
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics
#74. To: Pridie.Nones (#71)
How is what he says wrong?
#75. To: GrandIsland (#73)
They just need a cool, dry, dark place.
#76. To: Gatlin (#74)
#77. To: Gatlin (#74)
From what I read on the Web, people have stored them in various conditions and they still work well.
#78. To: GrandIsland (#73)
#79. To: GrandIsland (#73)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf-life
#80. To: Gatlin (#75)
The Web is full of testimonials for this!
#81. To: Pridie.Nones, GrandIsland (#78)
Your storage system is not controlled. You have about 50,000 silly little non-accountable primers worthless to anyone other than your own braggin'.
lead chucker: I think primers are pretty durable I had some primed 9mm cases that were in a bole on a shelf in my garage they we're in there for years I forgot about them. My garage is un heated and there is a lot of humidity here in south central Alaska. I loaded them up and they all shot fine. I was surprised I thought I would have a few duds but they all went off. They were cci's.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf- life
#82. To: Gatlin (#79)
The 1965 primers turned in slightly better group that the 2010 primers. So the shelf life of primers if stored indoors is at least 47 years.
#83. To: GrandIsland (#80)
(Edited)
I don't care what he thinks.
#84. To: Gatlin (#83)
#85. To: Gatlin (#83)
He must always strive to show that he is totally correct and morally superior.
#86. To: GrandIsland (#85)
#87. To: GrandIsland (#85)
... IN THE BASEMENT... THE PRIMER.
#88. To: Gatlin (#86)
One guy stated he has 250,000 stored.
#89. To: Pridie.Nones (#87)
#90. To: tpaine (#0)
DUE TO THE OVERWHELMING DEMAND FOR M855 AMMUNITION AND COMPONENTS, WE ARE CURRENTLY AT LEAST 7-14 DAYS BEHIND IN SHIPPING. Also, we have a small amount of IMI M855 ammunition inbound (coming this week Feb,18) for $539.00 / 1200 rounds + shipping. We believe this MAY be the last of IMI M855. We could have sold it all to one buyer for more than $539.00, but we are going to sell it to our customers with LIMIT ONE CASE PER CUSTOMER.
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