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Title: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
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Published: Feb 14, 2015
Author: nra
Post Date: 2015-02-14 13:46:27 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 19410
Comments: 90
www.nraila.org BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo Friday, February 13, 2015 In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. View Related Articles It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible. By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles: Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge. Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes. BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments. How to comment – from the BATFE ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method): ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.
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#1. To: tpaine (#0)
I've amassed over 5,000 once fired cases (easy to find after neighboring police agencies would qualify with patrol rifle)... I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes. Projectiles and powder are cheap... easily accessible. Sheeple feed from the trough... humans provide their own food.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
But, the Ovomit supporters have been telling us he was not going for more gun control. Whats up with that? When are they going to go after .30 caliber?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
As Claire Wolfe puts it, -- it's nearly time...
Projectiles and powder are cheap... easily accessible. " Interesting
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Why? It's interesting to me that not every person that is pro second amrndment AND intelligent enough to reload ammo, doesn't do it. I won't feel sorry for sheep... when the ammo shelves in retail stores run dry. Those that rely on others to survive, welfare, SS, food stamps, ammo, no hunting skills, no survival skills and no back up plan... Deserve what they get when those they rely on fail them.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Simply because I would not have figured you for a reloader. I would have guessed you to be the type that bought factory ammo by the case. I was wrong.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
I've been reloading since 1985. I started reloading to curb the cost of massive amounts of .45 ammo needed to IPSC compete. I stopped competing just before I entered the academy in 1994. Even in retirement, I shoot often.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I doubt if this ban will hold. I wonder how much 1,000 rounds PMC just jumped?
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway. I was under the impression that both M193 and M855 will penetrate soft body armor up thru level 3. I'm also under the impression that the earlier M855 rounds (which are the only ones for sale to civilians) is barrel twist sensitive and barrel length sensitive, the bullet could yaw in flight and not penetrate on impact anyway.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
To me it's pretty obvious they are trying to accomplish an infringement of the 2nd, by subterfuge...
To me none of this makes any sense cause it will not stop whatever threat they think this ammo is anyway. Other larger rounds can do the same thing and better, and can be bought in a AR package to boot.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Commonplace? I thought FMJ was "commonplace". Why spend $400.00 for 855 ammo when you can get FMJ for $339.00?
1) Tyrants want you to believe that the 2nd is about duck hunting (sporting purposes). 2) They'd also like you to believe that the BATFE/government "grants" rights, and that you need their permission for everything. An autograph auction house, Alexander Autographs, is auctioning a note sent by Barack Obama on White House stationary saying he supports the Second Amendment. The note was in response to a letter sent to him by a gentleman who noted how much money is raised for wildlife conservation by the sale of firearms and ammunition. The letter is included with this autographed note. You can read the full letter on the Alexander Autographs auction page above. Both are commonplace. And 855 may function better in your particular rifle, of course.
2) They'd also like you to believe that the BATFE/government "grants" rights, and that you need their permission for everything. I understand your point about getting the "Camels nose under the tent" but I also agree with some people just don't need access to certain things. (Even though this isn't one of them). For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass? Which is it????????
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? The second amendment is gone then, and so is liberty, the BOR/Constitution, and the USA. "Someone" gets to decide who may have arms, and what type of arms? Sounds like China, or Cuba. Tyrants fear well armed free men. Which 'things' qualify for unconstitutional prohibitions, in your view? Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sorces of ammunition. Isn't that obvious?
I disagree. People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said) The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sources of ammunition. Isn't that obvious? Well, you sure took a long way around to agree, so OK... And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? You've helped me be quite aware of who my enemies are.. Thanks for your candour.
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/ No. When I lived in NY, I'd travel 4 hours to a location in PA to buy all my reloading needs. They stocked all sizes of primers, all manufactures... and averaged 29.00 - 35.00 a thousand. I'd drive there, pay cash... and store it. They also had a huge supply of powder and projectiles. Now that I've moved from NY, I still get my reloading needs from the same place. Occasionally, I'll order from Midway.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
Well I'm not a anarchist.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho. Well, the fact that you needed to tell me that makes me laugh.. :) Thanks.
I don't know. There must be some mistake because I am certain none of our elected or appointed officials would lie to us.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
Which is it???????? Both,plus a third reason that is the main reason. They want to establish that they have the power to do this. It's the "camels nose under the tent".
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Failing to prepare is like preparing to fail.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If you have 50,000 primers ready and available for reloading rounds of ammunition then you must have or possess already assembled loads. I am confident you are just a liar, though. You are BIG, FAT donut eating liar that slept through his cross-walk guard job at a local school while the world passed you by.
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist? -- Pridie.Nones Maybe he bought them for the milita group camped out in his mom's basement.
The poster is friggin' nut case.
Lighten up. Compared to his buddies here at LF, he's the voice of rationality.. :)
I reload, too. I have a Dillon Model 650 and reload a few hundred rounds for practice shooting every few months for various calibers. I reserve commercial rounds for serious shooting, however because they are costly BUT are fabricated upon excellent quality standards. I make mistakes from time to time in reloading ammunition for many reasons; maybe too few grains of powder; maybe I was offcenter of the press; maybe I was just being "creative" for the next shoot with too many grains or even over used expent shells which were too elastic in the first place. But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
Look, boxes of primers, and other reloading supplies, are an excellent store of value, if you have proper storage facilities. From your description of your reloading experiences, I think you'd be wise to give it up.
I do possess already assembled loads. Lots of them. What's your point?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
We've had two shortages of primers over the last 10 years. The primer is the most essential part of your reloading components. Bullets can be cast Powder can be made Cases can be reused But primers can't be made. It our government can control primers, it would seriously effect our ability to stay armed. I'll never have that worry. Sounds like you will. lol Like I said. Failing to prepare is like Preparing to fail. I've passed a physc eval.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Not at all, to use an ol' cliché: "Practice makes perfect" and so I choose to make a few rounds based on serious studies for the ballistics; with my match grade .308 as an example, I can strike a target with both accuracy and precision at less than 1" @over 100 yards. In so doing, I make mistakes but the cost is inconsequential over a few hundred rounds because of personal time to learn and study. For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading is quite an impressive and bold statement. His claim suggests that his mental agility is off-target in the real world of shooting. Perhaps his claim is more about reading some Mad magazine comick book.
For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading --- This is the second time you've made a rather silly comment about 'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box, and placing them properly in any equipment you may be using?
I asked the poor, poster about being a test technician to ensure my primers are of high quality for re-loading. The poster has not seriously responded. All I wanted from the poster was: 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes. The cross guard worker declined.
I don't brag. I state fact. If you are a pro second amrndment thinker, and you don't know how to reload... you're a sheep. Relying on another to satisfy your ammo needs. If you are a reloader, and you don't horde supplies (especially primers)... you're a retarded sheep. I bought a box of 1,000 primers, a month (most months) starting in 2008. I decided 50,000 was adequate. The bulk of the 50,000 is divided up between small rifle, large rifle and large pistol primers. I do have a small supply of small pistol primers (just for shits and giggles) and a 1,000 large rifle bench rest primers. I also have over 5,000 hardcast .45 bullets and 2,000 hard cast .44 bullets Also... 15 years of my LE service, I carried a .40 S&W calibered weapon. As per policy, I was issued a box of 50 bullets, a month, for proficiency (if I requested them, and I did). I shot less than 10% of what I was issued. Do the math how many .40 cal loaded hardball rounds I have. 15 X 12 X 50.... lol Now... If I wanted to brag... I'd post a link that shows me shooting an 11"X11" steel plate at 201 yards, unscoped, off a bench... with my service weapon, about 3 weeks before I retired. It's on video... on YouTube. But I won't... unless you ask for the link.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
The cross guard worker declined. I declined because your questions were idiotic.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
GrandIsland, you are an absolute failure. You deserve the questions that I pummel towards you.
GrandIsland, you are an absolute failure. You deserve the questions that I pummel towards you. The beauty of this country... is everyone has the FREEDOM and LIBERTY to have and voice an opinion... you voiced yours. Thank you for your thoughts.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
With 50,000 primers in your possession, how many do you process in a week? What is the shelf life of ANY of your primers?
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or; 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes If you really knew much about primers, you would realise that crushing them with your teeth, or maybe even tap dancing on them, would very likely NOT set them off. But please, do keep up your efforts to entertain, and to impress us all with your gun lore expertise..
I've loaded primers (that were given to me) that were well over 25 years old. All worked fine. I don't worry about shelf life... they are all stored in a cool, dark dry place. They will last as long as I'll need them too.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
You are correct. They are designed to ignite by a strike... not a slow crushing force. I have squashed them, seating them while not aligned properly without ignition. I doubt he was asking a serious question. It's why I refused to answer.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place?
I intend to. GrandIsland is a publick exhibit about total BS.
I've already told you why I amassed a huge supply of primers.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Sorry, but your efforts here to impress us, --- remind me of Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
"Having" and "needs" are two different questions. I asked about your needs. Why in the world do you have so many primers?
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place? Your question sounds like something Andrew Cuomo would ask. That's why I moved from NYS... so I wouldn't have to deal with people like you that don't think I should have 50,000 primers. Cuck Fuomo
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Your remarck is strangely reminiscinent of a POS chatter that moves the questions offered into obscure oblivion. You can tell the channel why you have 50,000 primers. I also want to know your personal reasons because shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
How do you rotate your inventory with so many primers on hand? I assume from 1985 you have a FIFO system and through time you have kept accurate track of which primers to use FIRST. Ho do you keep track of your inventory?
Don't be ridiculous. I've loaded and used primers over 30 years old. I've had zero issues with functionality or accuracy. You aren't a good enough pistol shooter to see a difference in accuracy from a 1 month old box of primers to a 15 year old box of primers... if there's a reduction in accuracy at all. I suggest you bench rest test old primers vs new primers. You might be presently surprised. I've even tested 20-30 year old IMR powders in 30.06, 25-06, 243, 308 and 260 Rem.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He bounced 12 gauge rubber slugs off of bears, and the squirrels somehow got trampled in the confusion.
You didn't answer my question. I want to know how you control your "50.000 primers" in a cool dark place. Do you have an advanced inventory control software program that alerts you to use any previously stored primers because of your suggested awesome inventory?
You aren't serious are you? It's not hard to manage 50 small boxes of 1,000 I don't worry about age. Like I've said, I've not seen a noticeable difference in older primers vs newer primers... but I do try and use my oldest boxes first as I open a new box of 1,000 and then I replace that box by buying a new box of 1,000.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Since you replace your inventory on a "1,000 tin box" basis as you see fit, how do you manage so many boxes in your "cool dark place?" Why are you expending 1000 rounds so often?
Because I shoot... A LOT. lol
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If you really SHOOT A LOT, then there is a purpose for your intent. I am intersted about your managed capability to control your 50,000 primers, however. You claim that since 1985, you have amassed all this inventory. Yet, you really don't show any serious shooting skills other than buying primers and placing the primers into your "cool, dark" warehouse. You cannot tell me you are serious about any of your claims unless you are an ouright liar.
Oh, please. I'm a certified firearms instructor and a past IPSC shooter. I'd out shoot you in both accuracy and time on any pistol course. I've been hand loading ammo since 1985... I've been amassing supplies since 2008. Try and keep up.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Kenneth L. Walters: The original batch of Unique was made somewhere in the 1890. Every year or two they test a small portion of it to see if it has deteriorated. Last time I hear, and it has been awhile, no deterioration. As long as you don't store it somewhere hot it should be fine indefinitely. Certainly hope so as I have 260 pounds in the garage. Think that primers are ever less likely to deteriorate. Certainly hope so as I have 275,000 in the garage. Shelf life of CCI military rifle primers: There are many, many similar stories. I simply decided to stop copying at this point. For someone totally unfamiliar with the subject and just reading about it for the first time….you information appears to be correct to me.
Canary ... I see you jumped in to help out your buddy. Too cool as your antic is totally predictable. Strangely, your pal can not defend himself at all. He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
When I started reloading in 1985, I was given a few hundred CCI magnum large rifle primers that were about 20-25 years old. I also bought brand new large rifle primers that weren't "magnum". I did several tests with both primers in 30.06. I found both grouped just as well at 100 yards, both less than 1" This poster is just assuming that age matters. It might in some circumstances, but I haven't found any yet. I've even had good luck using 20 year old IMR powder. I shot it all up... wish I still had it. He is sounding ignorant, trying to discredit me because he simply doesn't like me. Period.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
There are people on the Web who state the same. How is what he says wrong?
Of course....that is so obvious. oldred: I am using some primers now that I bought back in 1977, I bought several thousand of these and they were stored along with my other gear for years while my shooting life was on hold due to making a living. After I retired I dusted off my guns (well not actually "dusted off", just a figure of speech) and other gear and I have been busy trying to use it all up! These were stored with no special care just placed in cardboard boxes and stored in a dry garage for a while then in a large closet for several years when I moved to another house. Some of the powder I had stored had deteriorated some, most notably the 3031, but most of the other powders were ok. The fact that some of the powder had deteriorated demonstrates that storage conditions were not 100% ideal but the powder was all that was harmed, the primers are as good as the day I bought them!
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics.
One last time. If stored properly, primers don't go bad. I don't worry about rotating or managing my supply since they don't go bad... but when I open up a new box of 1,000... I try an pick the oldest box in my supply.... then replace it with a new store bough box. It's not that difficult.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
They aren't cigars. lol They just need a cool, dry, dark place.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics. From what I read on the Web, people have stored them in various conditions and they still work well. Just because you haven't done something....doesn't make it wrong!
The Web is full of testimonials for this!
50,000 primers? You read this sort of BS all the time, do ya?
That's 100% accurate. If he doesn't wanna stock up on primers because he thinks they will mold like bread.... fine. I don't wanna hear him cry when they are outlawed for public sale, the manufactures will all comply... and he cries. I'll have enough to last me... and they will all work just fine.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Your storage system is not controlled. You have about 50,000 silly little non-accountable primers worthless to anyone other than your own braggin'.
Char Gar: In 1965 when the war in Viet Nam started to get hot and heavy, I ran down and stocked up on primers. I had head the stories about how hard they were to obtain in WWII and didn't want to get caught without. I wrapped up my stash in multiple layers of foil and sealed them with tape. I continue to buy new primers and hang on to the stash. About ten years later, I realized that I didn't need the stash, I started to shoot them up. I use very few SR primers, so I still have about a thousand of 1965 Winchester SR primers. Two years ago I loaded some ammo up (25-20) with them and some fresh Winchester SR primers and went to the range. The 1965 primers turned in slightly better group that the 2010 primers. So the shelf life of primers if stored indoors is at least 47 years.
Well, to be honest, I never checked the web. I tested old primers personally. I have direct knowledge. I've shot them out of pistols and rifles. I don't care what he thinks.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
There to many, many shooters on the Web that say the same thing as GI. Give it up!
I couldn't see a noticeable difference when I tested new vs used. I can imagine in some cases they would out perform new. I did load an old IMR power I was given, in .243... and the old powder grouped better than the new.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He is just another self-righteous asshole who feels he can characterize with an unfounded certainty. He must always strive to show that he is totally correct and morally superior.
I'll send you a link via LF Mail. Tell me what you think.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
His "morally superior" will leave him with nothing to shoot once government realizes that they will never be able to control guns or eliminate them in society... so they will attempt to control ammo manufacture... and when they realize that doesn't work because non sheep reload... THEY WILL TRY TO CONTROL THE ONE THING WE CANT MAKE IN THE BASEMENT... THE PRIMER. I'll be ready. lol Just watch... he'll still say I haven't given him a reason why I amassed 50,000 primers. LOL
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
One guy stated he has 250,000 stored.
How useful is a wet or damp primer wherein the chemical compoition has been eroded by your uncontrolled storage system? If you have 50,000 primers, I wager you only have 500 useful primers.
Smart guy. If I had unlimited funds, I'd have bought 100,000... then once they were outlawed, I'd have sold 20,000 to Pridie.Nones for 300.00 a box... if he begged and apologized. At 32.00 a box of 1000, it adds up. 50 boxes is enough for just me.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
How useful is a wet or damp primer wherein the chemical compoition has been eroded by your uncontrolled storage system? If you have 50,000 primers, I wager you only have 500 useful primers. You'd lose that bet.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Regarding M855, we are not sure what is going to happen. If there is no ban, then prices may drop, but not for a while, (if ever). Frankly, this has caused another round of panic buying and we are trying our best to fill the orders. A limited amount of Lake City XM855 is also inbound and will be for sale upon arrival. https://www.wideners.com/ Looks like we have another run on ammo starting. BTW didn't this issue come up about 3 or 4 years ago and M855 was deemed "NOT TO BE ARMOR PIERCING AMMO"??
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
#2. To: tpaine (#0)
#3. To: GrandIsland, stoner, Y'ALL (#1)
#4. To: GrandIsland (#1)
" I've amassed over 5,000 once fired cases (easy to find after neighboring police agencies would qualify with patrol rifle)... I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes.
#5. To: Stoner (#4)
Interesting
#6. To: tpaine (#0)
#7. To: GrandIsland (#5)
" Why? "
#8. To: Stoner (#7)
Simply because I would not have figured you for a reloader. I would have guessed you to be the type that bought factory ammo by the case. I was wrong.
#9. To: GrandIsland (#8)
#10. To: tpaine (#0)
#11. To: CZ82 (#10)
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway.
#12. To: tpaine (#11)
#13. To: tpaine (#0)
"it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition"
#14. To: CZ82, not about duck hunting, sporting purposes, *Bang List* (#10)
BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway. The Second Amendment Isn't About Duck Hunting
["rights of sportmen"]
More on the auction and on Obama's stance on gun rights is in a story from U.S. News and World Report's Washington Whispers column entitled Obama Backs Gun Rights.
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#15. To: misterwhite (#13)
---- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.
misterwhite, --- Commonplace? I thought FMJ was "commonplace". --- Why spend $400.00 for 855 ammo when you can get FMJ for $339.00?
#16. To: hondo68 (#14)
1) Tyrants want you to believe that the 2nd is about duck hunting (sporting purposes).
#17. To: CZ82 (#16)
some people just don't need access to certain things
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#18. To: CZ82 (#16)
I also agree with some people just don't need access to certain things. (Even though this isn't one of them).
For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass? --- Which is it????????
#19. To: tpaine (#18)
Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sorces of ammunition. Isn't that obvious?
#20. To: GrandIsland, gatlin, misterwhite, Y'ALL II (#19)
I disagree. -- People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. ----- A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. --- B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. --- C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. --- D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said)
The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T
It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. --- The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
#21. To: GrandIsland (#1)
I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes.
#22. To: CZ82 (#21)
#23. To: tpaine (#20)
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism?
#24. To: GrandIsland (#23)
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
#25. To: tpaine (#24)
I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
#26. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#27. To: Stoner (#2)
But, the Ovomit supporters have been telling us he was not going for more gun control. Whats up with that?
#28. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#29. To: CZ82 (#16)
For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass?
#30. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
#31. To: GrandIsland (#30)
#32. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
GrandIsland (#25) --- : Well I'm not a anarchist.
#33. To: tpaine (#32)
#34. To: Pridie.Nones (#33)
#35. To: tpaine (#34)
#36. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
50,000 primers ready for reloading?
#37. To: Pridie.Nones (#31)
you must have or possess already assembled loads.
#38. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
#39. To: tpaine (#36)
#40. To: Pridie.Nones (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: tpaine (#40)
'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box?
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or;
#42. To: Pridie.Nones (#39)
For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading is quite an impressive and bold statement.
#43. To: Pridie.Nones (#41)
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or; 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes.
#44. To: GrandIsland (#43)
I declined because your questions were idiotic.
#45. To: Pridie.Nones (#44)
#46. To: GrandIsland (#45)
#47. To: Pridie.Nones (#41)
All I wanted from the poster was:
#48. To: Pridie.Nones (#46)
To: GrandIsland With 50,000 primers in your possession, how many do you process in a week? What is the shelf life of ANY of your primers?
#49. To: tpaine (#47)
If you really knew much about primers, you would realise that crushing them with your teeth, or maybe even tap dancing on them, would very likely NOT set them off.
#50. To: GrandIsland (#48)
they are all stored in a cool, dark dry place. They will last as long as I'll need them too.
#51. To: tpaine (#47)
But please, do keep up your efforts to entertain, and to impress us all with your gun lore expertise..
#52. To: Pridie.Nones (#50)
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place?
#53. To: Pridie.Nones (#51)
#54. To: GrandIsland (#52)
#55. To: Pridie.Nones, tpaine (#50)
To: GrandIsland
#56. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#57. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#58. To: Pridie.Nones (#56)
shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
#59. To: tpaine, 12 gauge rubber slugs, bear foreplay (#53)
Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#60. To: GrandIsland (#58)
I suggest you bench rest test old primers vs new primers. You might be presently surprised.
#61. To: Pridie.Nones (#57)
(Edited)
How do you rotate your inventory with so many primers on hand?
#62. To: GrandIsland (#61)
#63. To: Pridie.Nones (#62)
Why are you expending 1000 rounds so often?
#64. To: GrandIsland (#63)
Because I shoot... A LOT.
#65. To: Pridie.Nones (#64)
#66. To: GrandIsland (#58)
(Edited)
I have never reloaded. I became interested in the post exchanges going on here and decided to do some research. I found the following information on my first hit.
Ruger4570: In the past I have shot tons of Military 30-06 ammo dating all the way back to 1917 and it all shot. I don't remember any misfires, hangfires or non-fires.
Dark Canyon: I've used 30 year old powder and 15 year old primers with very good results.
Edward429451: I've been working my way through some cans of old powder and a few thousand primers that are from the 70's & 80's and haven't had a problem with any of them.
keebo52: Powder, primers and loaded ammo will last a long time if stored properly. I got out of reloading in 1990 and started back last year. I'm shooting loads that I made in the mid 80s and have been using the old powder and primers without a problem. I just finished loading some .223 ammo with IMR 4198 powder that I paid about $7-8 per pound when I bought it back in the 80s. Those were the good old days.
dogfood: I am currently shooting Winchester primers that I bought in 1989 and Winchester powder that I bought in 1991. Typically, its been stored in the basement, but I have moved twice since then, so it has spent limited time in a hot truck. Zero problems so far.
Source: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213554
medalguy: You won't see them go bad in your lifetime as long as they are stored in reasonable temperatures. Keep them in the original packaging and put them on the shelf. Primers are good for longer than you might think. I've tried primers nearly 55 years old and they still worked.
HughUno: "regular" primers will essentially (if stored reasonably well) last FOREVER. "lead-free" primers (which nobody much buys or uses) are likely to last 25+ years (based upon industry testing).
will77: Primers will outlast most of us if stored correctly, im using cci primers right now that were made in the 80's.Like most reloaders i rember the shortages of 08,and 09 i also rember 1994 1995 could not find anything then primers powder nada.The first sortage taught me a lesson buy as much as you can replace what you shoot,that way when something happens you can weather the storm so to speak.
Tuna 1: I have used Winchester and Remington primers from the late 1940's and the 1950's just last year. And everyone of them shot just fine. Cool dry storage is the key.
Source: http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-51137.html
#67. To: Gatlin (#66)
(Edited)
#68. To: Gatlin (#66)
#69. To: Pridie.Nones, GrandIsland (#67)
He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
#70. To: GrandIsland (#68)
(Edited)
He is sounding ignorant, trying to discredit me because he simply doesn't like me. Period.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf- life
#71. To: Gatlin (#69)
How is what he says wrong?
#72. To: Pridie.Nones (#67)
Strangely, your pal can not defend himself at all. He suggests he has 50,000 primers and refuses to answer a simple question: how is the inventory managed? It suggests "in a cool, dark place."
#73. To: Pridie.Nones (#71)
He doesn't control the environmental conditions to ensure product viability for robust characteristics
#74. To: Pridie.Nones (#71)
How is what he says wrong?
#75. To: GrandIsland (#73)
They just need a cool, dry, dark place.
#76. To: Gatlin (#74)
#77. To: Gatlin (#74)
From what I read on the Web, people have stored them in various conditions and they still work well.
#78. To: GrandIsland (#73)
#79. To: GrandIsland (#73)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf-life
#80. To: Gatlin (#75)
The Web is full of testimonials for this!
#81. To: Pridie.Nones, GrandIsland (#78)
Your storage system is not controlled. You have about 50,000 silly little non-accountable primers worthless to anyone other than your own braggin'.
lead chucker: I think primers are pretty durable I had some primed 9mm cases that were in a bole on a shelf in my garage they we're in there for years I forgot about them. My garage is un heated and there is a lot of humidity here in south central Alaska. I loaded them up and they all shot fine. I was surprised I thought I would have a few duds but they all went off. They were cci's.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154367-Primer-shelf- life
#82. To: Gatlin (#79)
The 1965 primers turned in slightly better group that the 2010 primers. So the shelf life of primers if stored indoors is at least 47 years.
#83. To: GrandIsland (#80)
(Edited)
I don't care what he thinks.
#84. To: Gatlin (#83)
#85. To: Gatlin (#83)
He must always strive to show that he is totally correct and morally superior.
#86. To: GrandIsland (#85)
#87. To: GrandIsland (#85)
... IN THE BASEMENT... THE PRIMER.
#88. To: Gatlin (#86)
One guy stated he has 250,000 stored.
#89. To: Pridie.Nones (#87)
#90. To: tpaine (#0)
DUE TO THE OVERWHELMING DEMAND FOR M855 AMMUNITION AND COMPONENTS, WE ARE CURRENTLY AT LEAST 7-14 DAYS BEHIND IN SHIPPING. Also, we have a small amount of IMI M855 ammunition inbound (coming this week Feb,18) for $539.00 / 1200 rounds + shipping. We believe this MAY be the last of IMI M855. We could have sold it all to one buyer for more than $539.00, but we are going to sell it to our customers with LIMIT ONE CASE PER CUSTOMER.
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