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Title: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
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Published: Feb 14, 2015
Author: nra
Post Date: 2015-02-14 13:46:27 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 19426
Comments: 90
www.nraila.org BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo Friday, February 13, 2015 In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. View Related Articles It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible. By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles: Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge. Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes. BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments. How to comment – from the BATFE ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method): ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.
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#1. To: tpaine (#0)
I've amassed over 5,000 once fired cases (easy to find after neighboring police agencies would qualify with patrol rifle)... I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes. Projectiles and powder are cheap... easily accessible. Sheeple feed from the trough... humans provide their own food.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
But, the Ovomit supporters have been telling us he was not going for more gun control. Whats up with that? When are they going to go after .30 caliber?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
As Claire Wolfe puts it, -- it's nearly time...
Projectiles and powder are cheap... easily accessible. " Interesting
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Why? It's interesting to me that not every person that is pro second amrndment AND intelligent enough to reload ammo, doesn't do it. I won't feel sorry for sheep... when the ammo shelves in retail stores run dry. Those that rely on others to survive, welfare, SS, food stamps, ammo, no hunting skills, no survival skills and no back up plan... Deserve what they get when those they rely on fail them.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Simply because I would not have figured you for a reloader. I would have guessed you to be the type that bought factory ammo by the case. I was wrong.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
I've been reloading since 1985. I started reloading to curb the cost of massive amounts of .45 ammo needed to IPSC compete. I stopped competing just before I entered the academy in 1994. Even in retirement, I shoot often.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
I doubt if this ban will hold. I wonder how much 1,000 rounds PMC just jumped?
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway. I was under the impression that both M193 and M855 will penetrate soft body armor up thru level 3. I'm also under the impression that the earlier M855 rounds (which are the only ones for sale to civilians) is barrel twist sensitive and barrel length sensitive, the bullet could yaw in flight and not penetrate on impact anyway.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
To me it's pretty obvious they are trying to accomplish an infringement of the 2nd, by subterfuge...
To me none of this makes any sense cause it will not stop whatever threat they think this ammo is anyway. Other larger rounds can do the same thing and better, and can be bought in a AR package to boot.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Commonplace? I thought FMJ was "commonplace". Why spend $400.00 for 855 ammo when you can get FMJ for $339.00?
1) Tyrants want you to believe that the 2nd is about duck hunting (sporting purposes). 2) They'd also like you to believe that the BATFE/government "grants" rights, and that you need their permission for everything. An autograph auction house, Alexander Autographs, is auctioning a note sent by Barack Obama on White House stationary saying he supports the Second Amendment. The note was in response to a letter sent to him by a gentleman who noted how much money is raised for wildlife conservation by the sale of firearms and ammunition. The letter is included with this autographed note. You can read the full letter on the Alexander Autographs auction page above. Both are commonplace. And 855 may function better in your particular rifle, of course.
2) They'd also like you to believe that the BATFE/government "grants" rights, and that you need their permission for everything. I understand your point about getting the "Camels nose under the tent" but I also agree with some people just don't need access to certain things. (Even though this isn't one of them). For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass? Which is it????????
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? The second amendment is gone then, and so is liberty, the BOR/Constitution, and the USA. "Someone" gets to decide who may have arms, and what type of arms? Sounds like China, or Cuba. Tyrants fear well armed free men. Which 'things' qualify for unconstitutional prohibitions, in your view? Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sorces of ammunition. Isn't that obvious?
I disagree. People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said) The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sources of ammunition. Isn't that obvious? Well, you sure took a long way around to agree, so OK... And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? You've helped me be quite aware of who my enemies are.. Thanks for your candour.
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/ No. When I lived in NY, I'd travel 4 hours to a location in PA to buy all my reloading needs. They stocked all sizes of primers, all manufactures... and averaged 29.00 - 35.00 a thousand. I'd drive there, pay cash... and store it. They also had a huge supply of powder and projectiles. Now that I've moved from NY, I still get my reloading needs from the same place. Occasionally, I'll order from Midway.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
Well I'm not a anarchist.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho. Well, the fact that you needed to tell me that makes me laugh.. :) Thanks.
I don't know. There must be some mistake because I am certain none of our elected or appointed officials would lie to us.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
Which is it???????? Both,plus a third reason that is the main reason. They want to establish that they have the power to do this. It's the "camels nose under the tent".
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Failing to prepare is like preparing to fail.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If you have 50,000 primers ready and available for reloading rounds of ammunition then you must have or possess already assembled loads. I am confident you are just a liar, though. You are BIG, FAT donut eating liar that slept through his cross-walk guard job at a local school while the world passed you by.
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist? -- Pridie.Nones Maybe he bought them for the milita group camped out in his mom's basement.
The poster is friggin' nut case.
Lighten up. Compared to his buddies here at LF, he's the voice of rationality.. :)
I reload, too. I have a Dillon Model 650 and reload a few hundred rounds for practice shooting every few months for various calibers. I reserve commercial rounds for serious shooting, however because they are costly BUT are fabricated upon excellent quality standards. I make mistakes from time to time in reloading ammunition for many reasons; maybe too few grains of powder; maybe I was offcenter of the press; maybe I was just being "creative" for the next shoot with too many grains or even over used expent shells which were too elastic in the first place. But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
Look, boxes of primers, and other reloading supplies, are an excellent store of value, if you have proper storage facilities. From your description of your reloading experiences, I think you'd be wise to give it up.
I do possess already assembled loads. Lots of them. What's your point?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
We've had two shortages of primers over the last 10 years. The primer is the most essential part of your reloading components. Bullets can be cast Powder can be made Cases can be reused But primers can't be made. It our government can control primers, it would seriously effect our ability to stay armed. I'll never have that worry. Sounds like you will. lol Like I said. Failing to prepare is like Preparing to fail. I've passed a physc eval.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Not at all, to use an ol' cliché: "Practice makes perfect" and so I choose to make a few rounds based on serious studies for the ballistics; with my match grade .308 as an example, I can strike a target with both accuracy and precision at less than 1" @over 100 yards. In so doing, I make mistakes but the cost is inconsequential over a few hundred rounds because of personal time to learn and study. For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading is quite an impressive and bold statement. His claim suggests that his mental agility is off-target in the real world of shooting. Perhaps his claim is more about reading some Mad magazine comick book.
For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading --- This is the second time you've made a rather silly comment about 'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box, and placing them properly in any equipment you may be using?
I asked the poor, poster about being a test technician to ensure my primers are of high quality for re-loading. The poster has not seriously responded. All I wanted from the poster was: 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes. The cross guard worker declined.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
#2. To: tpaine (#0)
#3. To: GrandIsland, stoner, Y'ALL (#1)
#4. To: GrandIsland (#1)
" I've amassed over 5,000 once fired cases (easy to find after neighboring police agencies would qualify with patrol rifle)... I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes.
#5. To: Stoner (#4)
Interesting
#6. To: tpaine (#0)
#7. To: GrandIsland (#5)
" Why? "
#8. To: Stoner (#7)
Simply because I would not have figured you for a reloader. I would have guessed you to be the type that bought factory ammo by the case. I was wrong.
#9. To: GrandIsland (#8)
#10. To: tpaine (#0)
#11. To: CZ82 (#10)
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway.
#12. To: tpaine (#11)
#13. To: tpaine (#0)
"it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition"
#14. To: CZ82, not about duck hunting, sporting purposes, *Bang List* (#10)
BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories
I'm not real sure what they intend to accomplish with this anyway. The Second Amendment Isn't About Duck Hunting
["rights of sportmen"]
More on the auction and on Obama's stance on gun rights is in a story from U.S. News and World Report's Washington Whispers column entitled Obama Backs Gun Rights.
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#15. To: misterwhite (#13)
---- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.
misterwhite, --- Commonplace? I thought FMJ was "commonplace". --- Why spend $400.00 for 855 ammo when you can get FMJ for $339.00?
#16. To: hondo68 (#14)
1) Tyrants want you to believe that the 2nd is about duck hunting (sporting purposes).
#17. To: CZ82 (#16)
some people just don't need access to certain things
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#18. To: CZ82 (#16)
I also agree with some people just don't need access to certain things. (Even though this isn't one of them).
For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass? --- Which is it????????
#19. To: tpaine (#18)
Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sorces of ammunition. Isn't that obvious?
#20. To: GrandIsland, gatlin, misterwhite, Y'ALL II (#19)
I disagree. -- People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. ----- A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. --- B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. --- C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. --- D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said)
The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T
It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. --- The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
#21. To: GrandIsland (#1)
I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes.
#22. To: CZ82 (#21)
#23. To: tpaine (#20)
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism?
#24. To: GrandIsland (#23)
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
#25. To: tpaine (#24)
I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
#26. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#27. To: Stoner (#2)
But, the Ovomit supporters have been telling us he was not going for more gun control. Whats up with that?
#28. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#29. To: CZ82 (#16)
For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass?
#30. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
#31. To: GrandIsland (#30)
#32. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
GrandIsland (#25) --- : Well I'm not a anarchist.
#33. To: tpaine (#32)
#34. To: Pridie.Nones (#33)
#35. To: tpaine (#34)
#36. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
50,000 primers ready for reloading?
#37. To: Pridie.Nones (#31)
you must have or possess already assembled loads.
#38. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
#39. To: tpaine (#36)
#40. To: Pridie.Nones (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: tpaine (#40)
'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box?
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or;
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